LTK PPK. Stembridge pre war model. No pre war Zella PPK's were seen onscreen at all, it's pretty obvious. And the NSNA PPK/S. Even a non gun person can tell he uses a P5 throughout the film. Donk knows the minutiae, but Stembridge never actually supplied the production used PPK's in LTK, they were the agent used by Bapty to import their own inventory and the LTK PPK's were and still are Bapty pieces.
Was going to ask if you were referencing an earlier sale as I wasn't aware of any guns in this one. Yes, I had read posts -- likely yours -- about those before, although I didn't recall them being sold through Julien's.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
As Alan said, old auctions - had me going for a sec asp... Though there were film-related weapons in the auction, so I wondered if you meant those.
The stembridge debacle is well worn so I'll leave alone, but the poor sod who bgt the ppk from NSNA was probably persuaded By the authenticating letter from BC, and therein lies the criticsm of the auction house - this is something they should peruse as it's clear fraud if not legit.
I think it was amazingly cheap but expected a war so left well alone. I was out with the owner last night, and told him it'd go for $24k, so I can pretend I meant the all-in extortion price not the hammer {
I'm going to disagree, Paul. I recognize that it's all up to any given buyer and thus whatever the market will allow but at some point we need to be realistic on the prices some of this stuff is fetching. I specifically went because I wanted to have a first hand look at the 'copter and I think, frankly, $19K was too much given the condition; restored, conceivably, but not for the piece as is and not given that: 1) there are two others and 2) it simply isn't that iconic.
We all know a certain someone is going to be posting tomorrow that Julien's deserve to be shut down for failing to better advertise the sale, letting it go as cheaply as they did, etc., but I just don't see this as on a par with, say, the TB sea tow and this model sold for roughly half the gavel price of the tow; they just aren't comparable (and I suspect he posted about the tow going too cheaply as well).
I will say I don't think Julien's is the right venue for this material; yes they sold the Oddjob derby but they generally don't have the track record in movie memorabilia that the cornerstone pieces here deserved. Even with a teleprompter, it was some of the most bollixed-up selling I've ever observed; describing a lot as an "autographed copy of Man with a Gun [Lee-signed Man With the Golden Gun] really shouldn't be happening (I felt compelled to correct the auctioneer during the Lost in Space segment noting "the name is Bill MUMY, NOT Bill MURRAY!").
You make great points Alan, and value is a personal thing as u concede, but I don't agree that this one isn't iconic... Little nelie is as iconic as the DB5 in most bond fans hearts, and therefore her "admirers" are real bond baddies.
I may be alone in having a special love and respect for the models and their architects, especially ( but not limited to ) the pre-miniaturised age, so I hold bert luxford in as high regard as Jon stears or Derek meddings.
Regarding condition, I'm with donk on this.. I respect restoration (and have indulged myself) but it's a very fine line. If the item can protray it's genus all on it's own, without restoration, then I'm for leaving well alone.
That was my issue with the TB sled, and why I passed.
This beauty is just too gorgeous to be "admired" any further, and would look wonderful hanging just as she is...
As to auctioneering, I can believe it, especially the Mumy bit.. 8-)
But let's face it, auctioneering is not what it used to be, which is itself extortion when one considered the Mark up...
You make great points Alan, and value is a personal thing as u concede, but I don't agree that this one isn't iconic... Little nelie is as iconic as the DB5 in most bond fans hearts, and therefore her "admirers" are real bond baddies.
Nellie is iconic, yes. But the Bell pursuit ships? I'm "meh" on that one. The DB5 is iconic but I don't think it makes a Mustang 64.5 suddenly worth a Mil.
I may be alone in having a special love and respect for the models and their architects, especially ( but not limited to ) the pre-miniaturised age, so I hold bert luxford in as high regard as Jon stears or Derek meddings.
I agree 100%. In fact, a recognizable screen-used miniature is top of my list (I have a fair number of miniatures as is but nothing that doesn't require some explanation and, to be blunt, I felt the 'copter tended to fall into that category).
Regarding condition, I'm with donk on this.. I respect restoration (and have indulged myself) but it's a very fine line. If the item can protray it's genus all on it's own, without restoration, then I'm for leaving well alone.
Again, agreed but simply too much missing from this one for my taste; if either the engine section or the figures were present, I would have considered it. But I think a good deal of restoration would be required on this one to make me happy and, once more, with the gavel price being appropriate IMHO to a more complete and/or partially restored model, I couldn't go there.
That was my issue with the TB sled, and why I passed.
I actually felt the more recent tow was a pretty fair restoration. In fact, relative to your original comment about anticipating a bidding war, I kick myself now for not raising my paddle on the tow; I was convinced it was going to do £50-60K and I couldn't justify that for a piece that I didn't really have an emotional attachment to (as I would say I did with the 'copter ... just not a $23K emotional attachment).
But let's face it, auctioneering is not what it used to be, which is itself extortion when one considered the Mark up...
I concede that me alone standing my ground on outrageous figures made all the worse by the house percentages gets me nowhere other than the losing end of the collecting game; me saying "no more" just hands the thing the guy who's fine with it. Trouble remains that every one of these auctions is then seen as the benchmark for opening bids in the next. Is the OP plane worth $200K? It seemed from talks after the sale that the consensus is no but that's what it'll go for (it technically didn't sell but expect that Fornoff and the bidder will come to terms), meaning someone is now going to ask $250K for theirs. I get that this is how the game works but that doesn't stop me from hoping for some reality check to come along because I simply don't see that some of these pieces -- no matter how elegant a tribute they might be to a lost art -- are worth the ever more astronomical figures we're seeing.
End of rant. (I should just give in, buy what I want for how ever much it takes, and let the effect on the market be damned ... but my sense of the ethical won't let me.)
You make great points Alan, and value is a personal thing as u concede, but I don't agree that this one isn't iconic... Little nelie is as iconic as the DB5 in most bond fans hearts, and therefore her "admirers" are real bond baddies.
Nellie is iconic, yes. But the Bell pursuit ships? I'm "meh" on that one. The DB5 is iconic but I don't think it makes a Mustang 64.5 suddenly worth a Mil.
I may be alone in having a special love and respect for the models and their architects, especially ( but not limited to ) the pre-miniaturised age, so I hold bert luxford in as high regard as Jon stears or Derek meddings.
I agree 100%. In fact, a recognizable screen-used miniature is top of my list (I have a fair number of miniatures as is but nothing that doesn't require some explanation and, to be blunt, I felt the 'copter tended to fall into that category).
Regarding condition, I'm with donk on this.. I respect restoration (and have indulged myself) but it's a very fine line. If the item can protray it's genus all on it's own, without restoration, then I'm for leaving well alone.
Again, agreed but simply too much missing from this one for my taste; if either the engine section or the figures were present, I would have considered it. But I think a good deal of restoration would be required on this one to make me happy and, once more, with the gavel price being appropriate IMHO to a more complete and/or partially restored model, I couldn't go there.
That was my issue with the TB sled, and why I passed.
I actually felt the more recent tow was a pretty fair restoration. In fact, relative to your original comment about anticipating a bidding war, I kick myself now for not raising my paddle on the tow; I was convinced it was going to do £50-60K and I couldn't justify that for a piece that I didn't really have an emotional attachment to (as I would say I did with the 'copter ... just not a $23K emotional attachment).
But let's face it, auctioneering is not what it used to be, which is itself extortion when one considered the Mark up...
I concede that me alone standing my ground on outrageous figures made all the worse by the house percentages gets me nowhere other than the losing end of the collecting game; me saying "no more" just hands the thing the guy who's fine with it. Trouble remains that every one of these auctions is then seen as the benchmark for opening bids in the next. Is the OP plane worth $200K? It seemed from talks after the sale that the consensus is no but that's what it'll go for (it technically didn't sell but expect that Fornoff and the bidder will come to terms), meaning someone is now going to ask $250K for theirs. I get that this is how the game works but that doesn't stop me from hoping for some reality check to come along because I simply don't see that some of these pieces -- no matter how elegant a tribute they might be to a lost art -- are worth the ever more astronomical figures we're seeing.
End of rant. (I should just give in, buy what I want for how ever much it takes, and let the effect on the market be damned ... but my sense of the ethical won't let me.)
Great rant!!!
But Alan I'm sorry if I've openned wounds or inflamed passions.
I too frequently baulk at the price others are willing to pay for items, but not because I have some knowledge or understanding of true value. I just don't want it that much and prefer to employ my limited resources to other items.
Like you I thought the TB tow would go for much more, and decided it wouldn't be worth the battle, so focussed all my resources on the other items on the list.
I felt the same about the heli yesterday, and approached things in the same way. But I'm a sucker for miniatures and think most are special - I certainly cherish mine.
Oh and one of the fun things about collecting is trying to build on the item - eg somewhere out there is the figures to go with the heli... I did the same with the twine heli - took me yrs to find a figure to go in it. But the satisfaction...
I think the answer to your dilemma with regard to ethics and exorbitant prices is to focus on the satisfaction of owning a piece of your youth, your idol, your dreams. If that isn't enough, then I fear it's becoming something more troublesome and destructive.
In the end, there are plenty of super wealthy individuals like dezer, to whom $50k is chump change, and value is meaningless, and if they want an item, console yourself that you might be able to make them pay more than they should, but get it they will.
As to iconic that's definitely a personal thing...
Interesting points why both AJBers recently passed on the Thunderball tow sled. I was fortunate enough to have photo reference of the sled while in Mr Klein's possession prior to restoration and although it is very difficult to ascertain from photo reference alone, I would say the restoration which apart from Mr Maggiani's excellent speargun recreations appears to be solely the silver coachwork & red livery on the pieces top surface only. The bow appears to have it's original coachwork featuring identifiable seabed rubs? and crustacean staining from it's time in the water with of course minor points such as reproduction headlights & control box. As Propstore stated in their literature "the piece has undergone a sympathetic restoration process". It is also missing it's dive plane (the series of holes drilled either side of the propeller guard)....my two penneth worth -{
$16k for the Blofeld chair is crazy, especially when its not clear whether it is actually screen used or not (some bloke remembers seeing it out the back in Pinewood lol)
Auctions are indeed strange things. You could have a nice - but unremarkable - signed photo of SC as Bond appear at a big sale with two people in attendance who know nothing about autographs going head to head to hang it on their office wall, and it could go for GBP1000. That sort of thing happens quite often. Then, dealers/auctioneers who are either not terribly knowledgeable or very greedy, could indeed use that as a precedent and offer theirs beginning at that same price. Sometimes it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and that becomes the new price. Other times no one else bites at the new higher rate, and the price eventually drops back to where it belongs. The bottom line is that all it takes for silly money to be paid at auction is two people with deep pockets and even deeper desires.
Oh and one of the fun things about collecting is trying to build on the item - eg somewhere out there is the figures to go with the heli... I did the same with the twine heli - took me yrs to find a figure to go in it. But the satisfaction...
As described to me, if you were to breath on the figures in the restored YOLT 'copter they'd instantly disintegrate so wouldn't hold out much hope of finding the originals from the one in Saturday's sale!
Comments
Was going to ask if you were referencing an earlier sale as I wasn't aware of any guns in this one. Yes, I had read posts -- likely yours -- about those before, although I didn't recall them being sold through Julien's.
http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/individual-lots/?page=2&key=james+bond
As Alan said, old auctions - had me going for a sec asp... Though there were film-related weapons in the auction, so I wondered if you meant those.
The stembridge debacle is well worn so I'll leave alone, but the poor sod who bgt the ppk from NSNA was probably persuaded By the authenticating letter from BC, and therein lies the criticsm of the auction house - this is something they should peruse as it's clear fraud if not legit.
http://www.julienslive.com/images/lot/7453/74536_0.jpg
You make great points Alan, and value is a personal thing as u concede, but I don't agree that this one isn't iconic... Little nelie is as iconic as the DB5 in most bond fans hearts, and therefore her "admirers" are real bond baddies.
I may be alone in having a special love and respect for the models and their architects, especially ( but not limited to ) the pre-miniaturised age, so I hold bert luxford in as high regard as Jon stears or Derek meddings.
Regarding condition, I'm with donk on this.. I respect restoration (and have indulged myself) but it's a very fine line. If the item can protray it's genus all on it's own, without restoration, then I'm for leaving well alone.
That was my issue with the TB sled, and why I passed.
This beauty is just too gorgeous to be "admired" any further, and would look wonderful hanging just as she is...
As to auctioneering, I can believe it, especially the Mumy bit.. 8-)
But let's face it, auctioneering is not what it used to be, which is itself extortion when one considered the Mark up...
Bidding went upto about $1200 and it clearly carried a reserve in the 2-3k estimate area.
As Alan mentioned, any of us can put you in touch with the seller if you're (genuinely) interested
No time wasters pls.. 8-)
Nellie is iconic, yes. But the Bell pursuit ships? I'm "meh" on that one. The DB5 is iconic but I don't think it makes a Mustang 64.5 suddenly worth a Mil.
I agree 100%. In fact, a recognizable screen-used miniature is top of my list (I have a fair number of miniatures as is but nothing that doesn't require some explanation and, to be blunt, I felt the 'copter tended to fall into that category).
Again, agreed but simply too much missing from this one for my taste; if either the engine section or the figures were present, I would have considered it. But I think a good deal of restoration would be required on this one to make me happy and, once more, with the gavel price being appropriate IMHO to a more complete and/or partially restored model, I couldn't go there.
I actually felt the more recent tow was a pretty fair restoration. In fact, relative to your original comment about anticipating a bidding war, I kick myself now for not raising my paddle on the tow; I was convinced it was going to do £50-60K and I couldn't justify that for a piece that I didn't really have an emotional attachment to (as I would say I did with the 'copter ... just not a $23K emotional attachment).
I concede that me alone standing my ground on outrageous figures made all the worse by the house percentages gets me nowhere other than the losing end of the collecting game; me saying "no more" just hands the thing the guy who's fine with it. Trouble remains that every one of these auctions is then seen as the benchmark for opening bids in the next. Is the OP plane worth $200K? It seemed from talks after the sale that the consensus is no but that's what it'll go for (it technically didn't sell but expect that Fornoff and the bidder will come to terms), meaning someone is now going to ask $250K for theirs. I get that this is how the game works but that doesn't stop me from hoping for some reality check to come along because I simply don't see that some of these pieces -- no matter how elegant a tribute they might be to a lost art -- are worth the ever more astronomical figures we're seeing.
End of rant. (I should just give in, buy what I want for how ever much it takes, and let the effect on the market be damned ... but my sense of the ethical won't let me.)
Great rant!!!
But Alan I'm sorry if I've openned wounds or inflamed passions.
I too frequently baulk at the price others are willing to pay for items, but not because I have some knowledge or understanding of true value. I just don't want it that much and prefer to employ my limited resources to other items.
Like you I thought the TB tow would go for much more, and decided it wouldn't be worth the battle, so focussed all my resources on the other items on the list.
I felt the same about the heli yesterday, and approached things in the same way. But I'm a sucker for miniatures and think most are special - I certainly cherish mine.
Oh and one of the fun things about collecting is trying to build on the item - eg somewhere out there is the figures to go with the heli... I did the same with the twine heli - took me yrs to find a figure to go in it. But the satisfaction...
I think the answer to your dilemma with regard to ethics and exorbitant prices is to focus on the satisfaction of owning a piece of your youth, your idol, your dreams. If that isn't enough, then I fear it's becoming something more troublesome and destructive.
In the end, there are plenty of super wealthy individuals like dezer, to whom $50k is chump change, and value is meaningless, and if they want an item, console yourself that you might be able to make them pay more than they should, but get it they will.
As to iconic that's definitely a personal thing...
As described to me, if you were to breath on the figures in the restored YOLT 'copter they'd instantly disintegrate so wouldn't hold out much hope of finding the originals from the one in Saturday's sale!