Reality check here, just in case we think it's all realistic...

chrisisall

[Place Bond Movie Title Here] would have ended dead in its tracks if only [Place Villain or Henchperson name here] had killed Bond at their first opportunity.
Most believable nonsense IMO: Grant playing with Bond (He WAS a nut, right?).
Least believable nonsense: Burying Bond in an oil pipeline to seal his fate (smelling like a tart's handkerchief). )

Thoughts on this?

Firemass

chrisisall wrote:

Most believable nonsense IMO: Grant playing with Bond (He WAS a nut, right?).

Thoughts on this?

As much as I like the exploding suitcase, I find it very hard to believe that Grant would be stupid enough to suddenly want Bond's coin collection. If greed was Grant's weak-point, perhaps it should have been established earlier in the film...

Gassy Man

No fictional movie is "realistic." Some have greater verisimilitude -- the artistic illusion of reality -- than others, and some are more believable. The issue is not what's the most expedient solution. If that were the case, then in any Bond movie they could just go and bomb the daylights out the the villain's lair rather than worry about sending in a secret agent or commando team or whatever. What makes anything work is whether or not we believe the character's motivation. In this, a villain who would rather have Bond suffer an ignominious, slow death, stewing because he knows that he's lost fits in perfectly with an egocentric personality. That's why the whole stupid "just shoot him" babble spouted by younger audiences in particular misses the whole point of savoring the moment. It reminds me of the old joke:

Son Bull: Dad, let's run down there and have conjugal relations with a cow.
Dad Bull: Son, let's walk down there and have conjugal relations with them all.

In this regard, the early Bonds did it best. I believed that Dr. No, Goldfinger, Blofeld were exactly the sort of paranoid narcissists who would rather humiliate Bond than give him the courtesy of a fast departure. The early Bonds actually gave foreshadowing -- Goldfinger's speech to the gangsters before he kills them; Blofeld's execution of a traitor in grandiloquent, purposeful ways. The later Bonds just seemed a pale imitation, assuming we know the drill so there's no real reason to understand any other motivation than it's to be expected.

Of all of them, then, the one that is the cheesiest is Alec putting Bond in the helicopter. Think about it. If anyone would know Bond's capacity to escape, it would be another 00, especially his so-called best friend. We're supposed to believe an assassin not only follows the formula but doesn't consider every possibility that another 00 would in that situation, let alone 007. If there ever was a time when someone should have just shot Bond, it would have been then. But, of course, the paint-by-numbers approach by then required that Bond be put into that situation, with the flimsiest of suggestion why he would not just execute Bond outright.

Virgil37

There are many such cases, of course. Austin Powers movies make a very funny gag about it.

It's believable that Goldfinger doesn't kill Bond (or rather castrate him) because operation Grand Slam might be jeopardized. Better to have him locked in a cell and release him occasionally so that he can be seen having fun with Pussy. Good thinking. Bond manages to bring Goldfinger down by his wits alone (and a little Q branch help).

You mention the DAF pipeline. Yes, it's unbelievable as a killing method, specially if we take into account that Mr. Kidd and Mr. Wynn almost managed to kill Bond for good in the crematorium earlier in the film. In fact, that's the only time I can remember where the opposite happens: he is going to die cremated, and there's no possible way out. Only a Deus Ex Machina can save Bond, and does in the form of Shady Tree.

Thunderpussy

All heros, have to be given the opportunity to escape.or we have a very short
Story ! ) also the escape gives the chance for exciting chase sequences.
So I'm glad the villain never "simply killed" Indiana Jones, Ethan Hunt, Jason
Bourne etc. )

AlphaOmegaSin

1+

All of the major Fictional Heroes need to have some Level of unrealism and Fantasy to them -{

Firemass

It would be fun to see a "Last Action Hero" take on a James Bond movie. Ya know…some diehard fan suddenly finds himself inside a 007 movie and is trying to tell Bond that it's all make-believe.

Thunderpussy

) That's my life every day, I try and cross the street like Brosnan in the pts of
TWINE. If someone does a bit of bad driving, I do my Roger Moore raised eyebrow
( as in the fire engine chase in AVTAK). In big buildings, I'll slide gown the banister
Pretending to shoot the end of it ( OP). Even kissing the wife I check my watch.
That's really not Bond (DrNo), just we've been married so long I don't want to miss
Any of my TV shows ! )

AlphaOmegaSin

I've already mentioned this, but I now take Hot Showers followed by a cold Shower -{ And Bond got me Smoking )

Thunderpussy

Must be hard to smoke in the shower ? )
Although I know what you mean, I used to go snorkelling ( locally) only
Because it was the sort of thing Bond did, and as I used to drink and
Smoke. I could completely identify with Fleming's writing about the
One drink and one cigarette too many. ). Although I'm much healthier
Now. )

Manxman

The best examples of this ploy being pulled off successfully occur in the books. In From Russia With Love, Bond manages to intrigue Grant by suggesting that there is a flaw in his plan; as a result, Grant allows him to smoke a cigarette in return for an explanation and Bond slips the cigarette case over his heart. In Dr No, the villain is so arrogant that he believes no-one will ever survive his "assault course against" death, and his aloofness and sadism are well-established in the narrative.

The worst example in a film is probably You Only Live Twice, where Bond has been captured by SPECTRE and is tied up for Helga to interrogate and execute him. After he convinces her that he's an industrial spy, she frees him and flies with him before trapping him in the plane and bailing out. Why didn't she shoot him at point-blank range when she had the chance? He was tied up and helpless, and with Osato owning a chemical company could have disposed of the body without any traces. This is poor writing, introducing a couple of twists in the tale to keep the audience on the edge of their seats, even though none of it makes sense.

chrisisall

Gassy Man wrote:

the cheesiest is Alec putting Bond in the helicopter. Think about it. If anyone would know Bond's capacity to escape, it would be another 00, especially his so-called best friend. We're supposed to believe an assassin not only follows the formula but doesn't consider every possibility that another 00 would in that situation, let alone 007. If there ever was a time when someone should have just shot Bond, it would have been then.

I like how the villains never even have a camera on these situations just to see how they work out... or not. )

Sir Hillary Bray

Totally agree that Grant's behavior is believable. He's a "homicidal paranoic," remember? His speechifying to Bond makes complete sense, because it telegraphs that he is gradually becoming unhinged. The red mist is descending fast, and his "vision" becomes obscured.

Among the least believable to me is Kristatos. Instead of simply killing Bond and Melina, he decides to flay them on the coral. Nothing in his calm, efficient, businesslike demeanor suggests that something so showy, sadistic -- and, oh by the way, time-wasting and fraught with risk -- would be appealing to him. Then, to top it off, he declares, with very little due diligence, that "the sharks have them." Sorry, no sale.

chrisisall

Sir Hillary Bray wrote:

Among the least believable to me is Kristatos. Instead of simply killing Bond and Melina, he decides to flay them on the coral. Nothing in his calm, efficient, businesslike demeanor suggests that something so showy, sadistic -- and, oh by the way, time-wasting and fraught with risk -- would be appealing to him.

Yes. As Gassy Man said, formula over motivation.

Firemass

chrisisall wrote:

Sir Hillary Bray wrote:

Among the least believable to me is Kristatos. Instead of simply killing Bond and Melina, he decides to flay them on the coral. Nothing in his calm, efficient, businesslike demeanor suggests that something so showy, sadistic -- and, oh by the way, time-wasting and fraught with risk -- would be appealing to him.

Yes. As Gassy Man said, formula over motivation.

That's something that always bothered me about FYEO as well. I now appreciate how the keel-hauling scene was taken from the LALD novel, but Kristatos doesn't seem the type of villain who would do such a thing.

Thunderpussy

Perhaps, it was a way of showing his men how ruthless he could be ?
By toying with Bond in a cruel way, which could also be passed of as
A shark attack to the authorities ?

Blackleiter

Gassy Man wrote:

In this regard, the early Bonds did it best. I believed that Dr. No, Goldfinger, Blofeld were exactly the sort of paranoid narcissists who would rather humiliate Bond than give him the courtesy of a fast departure. The early Bonds actually gave foreshadowing -- Goldfinger's speech to the gangsters before he kills them; Blofeld's execution of a traitor in grandiloquent, purposeful ways. The later Bonds just seemed a pale imitation, assuming we know the drill so there's no real reason to understand any other motivation than it's to be expected

This says it all. {[]

chrisisall

Gassy Man wrote:

the one that is the cheesiest is Alec putting Bond in the helicopter. Think about it. If anyone would know Bond's capacity to escape, it would be another 00, especially his so-called best friend. We're supposed to believe an assassin not only follows the formula but doesn't consider every possibility that another 00 would in that situation, let alone 007.

This is actually my only really big problem with GE...
But it underscores my point in that with the exception of the first few keeping close to Fleming's novels, Bond movies have become fantastic to the point that a bleed-out in QOS is strange... would it have been too violent in FRWL? I think not so much, filmed slightly less graphically for the period.