TND vs. TWINE

chrisisall

TND was a YOLT for Brosnan; TWINE was his closest shot at a truly dark Bond movie.
Which is your favourite?

James Suzuki

TWINE hands down Chrisisall.
Don't get me wrong. TND is a good decent film. I love Jonathan Pryce and he did a great job as Elliot Carver. The BMW chase scene is done very well and Brosnan plays Bond well. It was just a step down from Goldeneye, a truly spectacular Bond film. TWINE was a step in the right direction (Shame they left it at that with DAD). They even brought a few ccharacters from GE back such as Bill Tanner and Valentin.

DevilMayCare007

TND for me. This is Brosnan at his best IMO and its just a good adventure, while TWINE had me confused at some parts and some parts its boring (ski chase).

broadshoulder

chrisisall wrote:

TND was a YOLT for Brosnan; TWINE was his closest shot at a truly dark Bond movie.
Which is your favourite?

Sorry but no way is TWINE a "dark" Bond movie. Its an awful lot of people trying to hurt one another and its generally M's fault. Its accuracy is all other the place

TND has Kaufman for five minutes and that puts it at the forefront of the Brozzers.

Thunderpussy

I prefer TND, it's such fun. )

Virgil37

An easy one. TND, the nadir of the franchise. TWINE, the closest to a good Bond movie in the Brosnan tenure.

TWINE all the way.

Dutchfinger

I always had trouble deciding which one I liked better. I usually put TWINE slightly above TND, because TND was quite generic in some parts. (If it was secretaly directed by Lewis Gilbert I would have believed it) It was a great movie nonetheless. The actions scenes were great, and arguably a lot better than the ones in TWINE.

I liked were they were going with TWINE, but I should say: I liked were they were TRYING to go to. TWINE had a lot of potential to be great. Bond has a damaged arm, a villian that doesn't feel pain, a woman Bond has to protect and starts to get feelings for etc.. yet they didn't go all the way with any of it.

I do hold both of these pretty high up in my top 23 however.

chrisisall

broadshoulder wrote:

Sorry but no way is TWINE a "dark" Bond movie. Its an awful lot of people trying to hurt one another and its generally M's fault. Its accuracy is all other the place

I don't mind the inevitable Brosnan bashing, but could you support your statement a bit instead of a simple hit & run jab?
"Sorry but no way is TWINE a "dark" Bond movie, because......."

broadshoulder

chrisisall wrote:

broadshoulder wrote:

Sorry but no way is TWINE a "dark" Bond movie. Its an awful lot of people trying to hurt one another and its generally M's fault. Its accuracy is all other the place

I don't mind the inevitable Brosnan bashing, but could you support your statement a bit instead of a simple hit & run jab?
"Sorry but no way is TWINE a "dark" Bond movie, because......."

Because...

And the action scenes do seem forced. The terrahawk attack on the ski run is tiresome, the fight at the end between Brosnan and Carlyle is slow, and the fight at the Caspian Caviar factory looks as if the explosives a re there for when the actors run past. The production design for TWINE shows no flair at all and Peter Lamont after 8 Bond movies is looking uninspired. There is a dreariness to this one as if the colour is washed out. The setting of the factories of Central Asia and the underground silos nearby is rather drab. The director Michael Apted injected no colour into the proceedings. He also let the action scenes be directed by ex stuntman, the increasingly bored Vic Armstrong, while he did the dialogue scenes.

Also may I add Robert Carlyle is a consumate actor but is utterly miscast as a Bond villain. Viktor Renard, the Serbian horror, is an excellent idea – a bullet slowly working through his brain making him stronger while slowly killing him. But nothing is done with it. He might as well have hooping cough the use it is to the story. Even the climactic battle between him and Pierce never gets out of first gear. But the casting director seems to have taken a holiday on this one with Goldie and Denise Richards struggling to say their lines on cue. And when you see M locked away and trying to reach the key with a broom handle you know they have run out of ideas. M becomes a dingbat in this one and no mistake.

chrisisall

Thanks for all the detail on what you find to not like about TWINE, I have to respect your opinion, and you backed up your view well, except... none of that goes to say why TWINE is not a 'darker' Bond... ?:)

King Kamal

I agree TND is quite generic, not especially in a good way. I think it all boils down to too many action sequences which distract fro the main story and a plot that really doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. I like Jonathan Pryce as Carver but I don't think Brosnan and Yeoh have much chemistry.

TWINE I do like actually, the plot is more realistic and the tone is darker with two quite emotionless villains. Brosnan at his peak here in terms of getting the grittiness/charm balance right. The Thames chase is very well done, the score is very Bondian and Zhukovsky is a very enjoyable ally.

chrisisall

King Kamal wrote:

I don't think Brosnan and Yeoh have much chemistry.

I quite disagree. I thought the got very attached to each other, once they 'linked up'. )

Zhukovsky is a very enjoyable ally.

I read somewhere that they cut a scene showing that Zukovski lived, but lat time I watched it (very recently) I didn't see how that was possible...

Thunderpussy

I think they had Bond check his pulse, and give a little smile !
( letting us know Zhukovsky was still alive )

chrisisall

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think they had Bond check his pulse, and give a little smile !
( letting us know Zhukovsky was still alive )

Thanks TP, I'll remember that next time I watch it and add the shot to the film in my head. -{

Thunderpussy

) That's what I do, in my world Zhukovsky never died -{ )

broadshoulder

chrisisall wrote:

Thanks for all the detail on what you find to not like about TWINE, I have to respect your opinion, and you backed up your view well, except... none of that goes to say why TWINE is not a 'darker' Bond... ?:)

To be honest I don't want to upset you..

Thunderpussy

Oh, go on get stuck into him !
He's always calling me a silly British man. )
I'll hold your coat. )

broadshoulder

Thunderpussy wrote:

Oh, go on get stuck into him !
He's always calling me a silly British man. )
I'll hold your coat. )

ha ha ha...

Is not a dark story is it?

chrisisall

broadshoulder wrote:

To be honest I don't want to upset you..

We're discussing, not fighting- it's all good (except for that silly silly British man TP ) ).
Regardless of the film's execution, the elements in it (Cigar Girl's suicide, Elektra's backstory, Bond's many killings in it, Renard's self-hatred, etc.) all make this a rather somber entry IMO, despite the pervasive one-liners. -{

Thunderpussy

See what I mean, " I don't get no respect !" )

Firemass

Dutchfinger wrote:

I always had trouble deciding which one I liked better.

Same here. They are both near-perfect Bond films.

MilleniumForce

TND. More enjoyable, and a lot more memorable.

chrisisall

I just got TWINE on Blu Ray and I have to say it looks like a different film. The DVD looks kind of muddy & muted, but the BR makes everything POP! This will be the first time I've seen this movie properly!

Blackleiter

This one is easy for me - TWINE. I think this is Brosnan at his best as Bond, its PTS is one of the best, and I really admire Sophie Marceau's work as Electra. Plus, the return of Valentin and the darker (yes darker!) tone of the film add to the appeal for me.

chrisisall

Blackleiter wrote:

This one is easy for me - TWINE. I think this is Brosnan at his best as Bond

That's not something I can disagree with.

But here's a mini-rant generated by my viewing of the first few minutes of TWINE on Blu Ray....
The BOND theme, the glistening gun barrel interior, Bond in the circle, the stylized RED cartoon blood drip....
SPECTRE, DOOO EEEET! DOOO EEET NOWWWW!!!!
X-(

Absolutely_Cart

TND paced better and had more action, but the action TWINE had was more memorable.

TWINE wins due to having a stronger story.

chrisisall

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

TND paced better and had more action, but the action TWINE had was more memorable.

TWINE wins due to having a stronger story.

I can see your reasoning here. I just thought TND had a stronger emotional resonance.