In a way, TLD reputation suffers from the fact that it wasn't a significant historical film in the same way From Russia With Love was.
When I watch Dr. No, I'm not just watching a movie, I'm watching a part of history. TLD is every bit as good, but it lacks that golden aura that makes us feel like we're watching more than just a movie. It's not Dalton's fault or the writer's fault that the movie isn't as highly regarded as some of the older ones. It's just a little bad luck.
Koskov is a trifle tragic for me personally. Just seems to lack any sort of menace or intelligence that is required to be a general in the KGB. You could have had Necros as a KGB general doing all the physical/ground work with Whittaker doing all his dealing in the background and it would be no poorer a film for it.
I can see what you're saying, and most Bond movies could probably use a fan tweak here or there, but it's really one of a few Bonds I just relish all the way through without a second thought while it's on. -{
Some of the others are down there
V
It has one of the finest PTS, an invigorated James Bond, a fine car, some great fights, uses
some original Fleming material, shows JB as a professional killer, has a very convincing henchman and I actually like Maryam D'Abo ;% .
On the con side it has a weaker last third and Joe Don Baker, while normaly a fine actor, doesn't convince as the bad guy. His best role will always be Darius Jedburgh.
1. The "suddenly having a crush on Bond just because he flies onto the yacht" 8-)
2. Dalton's overacted seriousness in the sniper scene. And the banter with Saunders is just tv-format never convinced me 8-)
3. Bond replacing the champagne - Moore would have gotten crucified for it 8-)
4. Exploding milk bottles and strangling with a headphone cable - oh yes! 8-)
5. The Aston Martin getting "winterized" when it's visually a different car 8-)
6. Cool gadget car radio being able to receive police communications - we did that with analogue transistors 15 years before
7. Ah, I forgot the 90 degree turn in the pipeline with the "pig" 8-)
8. The landing of the Harriers is plain boring 8-)
9. Salt corrosion -and Moore gets criticized for a wink in the FYEO car case 8-)
10. Balloon popping as a metaphor - well 8-)
11. Bond looking cool in a landau: Look at TSWLM and compare it with TLD Vienna scenes 8-)
12. Bond meeting Kara again in the tent and the misty eyes when they hug - sweet 8-)
13. Mentioned before: That loose stable in the car chase and cutting ice that can carry a car with the rim? 8-)
14. Cello case as a mode of transport - good that they left the magic carpet away in the final cut 8-)
15. Good Taliban - are you fecking kidding me? And people complain about a Tarzan yell or a slide wistle 8-)
16. Bond being arrested by 2 chicks - how dangerous? 8-)
17. Baker as a villain - laughable 8-)
18. Again - good Taliban - are you fecking kidding me? 8-)
19. That exploding bridge screams miniature 8-)
20. Kara opening the hatch and no-one discovers it until it's open? There is a "close" button as well 8-)
21. That Jeep is just pathetic 8-)
22. And they are riding to dawn - yawn 8-)
23. The baddies in the snow chase jumping over hills like winning the olympics 8-)
24. Ghetto Blaster - how inventive 8-)
It's probably 10 years that I've seen TLD - I am sure that there are more - these are just from my memory.
Enough to put that boring movie to the bucket
So besides that, you liked it pretty well, huh? Glad to see you finally coming around, Higgins! )
*Timothy Dalton.
* Gibraltar PTS
* A ha's theme song. I think it's fantastic.
* Possibly the best introduction of a new James Bond (only Connery's is better).
* The plot is magnificent. The twists and turns of Koskov's defection, then
* Bond's decisions are very revealing of his character (he decides NOT to use his licence to kill twice, disobeying direct orders ).
* Maryan D'Abo. Very good performance as Kara. Perfectly conveys the naivety of the character.
* John Rhys-Davies. I always liked him, and he's perfect as Pushkin. You can tell he's a good guy and feel for Bond when he's ordered to kill him.
* Jeroen Krabbe as Koskov.- very solid actor, very good at being two-face (as he went on to prove in other movies).
* Great individual scenes (Koskov's defection, Bond's first encounter with Pushkin, the Prater scenes with a great "Third Man" feel).
* Great locations (Gibraltar, never used in a Bond, Vienna, Tangier, Morocco)
* Did I mention Timothy Dalton? ("stuff my orders, I only kill professionals...", "If I trusted Koskov we wouldn't be talking...") Wow...amazing delivery. That's the way I imagine Bond would talk in real life.
CONS
*Necros, a new Grant-like henchman.
* Joe Don Baker/Brad Whittaker.- he's a weak villain. Not menacing enough, not larger than life. In fact Joe Don Baker came back in GE as a comic relief sort of character. I can't imagine any other actor who played a villain in the series doing that.
* A very 80s drum machine-based John Barry score (sadly his last). Although it's not bad, and like much better his OP's or AVTAK's scores.
Overall, one of my favourite movies. It just has a great feel to it. Someone in ajb007 said that Dalton's perfomance is like "seeing a novel come to life". That's how I feel about TLD. I think Ian Fleming himself would have loved TLD.
I pretty much agree with your points with the exception of:
"* Maryan D'Abo. Very good performance as Kara. Perfectly conveys the naivety of the character." - I find her to be a pretty bland Bond Girl
"*Necros, a new Grant-like henchman." - I didn't mind the resemblance to Grant at all, and I think Necros is one of the better pure henchmen since the Sixties era Bond films.
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
You have many supporters for that point of view and I'm probably the outlier. To me, it's not the fact that Kara is a more "normal person" than the typical Bond Girl that makes her bland. I think Natalya Simonova in Goldeneye is a similarly "normal" woman, but for whatever reason she has more of a lasting impact on me than Kara. Maybe it's just the way the character of Kara is written and/or performed, but for me she is one of the few weak spots in TLD.
You are killing me. Natalya Simonova is hands down one of my favorite Bond girls behind Vesper and Tracy. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
You have many supporters for that point of view and I'm probably the outlier. To me, it's not the fact that Kara is a more "normal person" than the typical Bond Girl that makes her bland. I think Natalya Simonova in Goldeneye is a similarly "normal" woman, but for whatever reason she has more of a lasting impact on me than Kara. Maybe it's just the way the character of Kara is written and/or performed, but for me she is one of the few weak spots in TLD.
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
I agree qith everything. As you point out, her character develops. First as a young naive girl, then totally badass in the desert (out-"badassing" the Mujahideen, mind you!)
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
You have many supporters for that point of view and I'm probably the outlier. To me, it's not the fact that Kara is a more "normal person" than the typical Bond Girl that makes her bland. I think Natalya Simonova in Goldeneye is a similarly "normal" woman, but for whatever reason she has more of a lasting impact on me than Kara. Maybe it's just the way the character of Kara is written and/or performed, but for me she is one of the few weak spots in TLD.
I didn't buy Natalya, whereas Kara is more believable. Definitely Maryan D'Abo plays "normal" better than Izabella Scorupco. Basically the opposite of your post.
I have to agree with my old nemesis Blackleiter.
Natalya though normal and vulnerable comes over to me buch better that Kara, who is a naive annorexic stupid girl - simply.
Kara to me is after Mayday the most annoying female character in the series, I even liked Ruby more than her
Oh and Kara was not even on my 24 point con list
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I would not call Natalya normal and I do not think they try to make her so. She is a level 2 programmer working on missile guidance systems. Plus, she is extremely feisty and keeps Bond in his place- even saving him at one point. I would describe her as a firecracker. Far, far from dull.
You are killing me. Natalya Simonova is hands down one of my favorite Bond girls behind Vesper and Tracy. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I do not think Kara is bland. She is much more of a normal person than many of the other bond girls (ie she is not a spy, sniper, geologist etc.) Maryan D'Abo does a really good job of playing a young 20 some who is smitten (not in love) with a powerful man. She is bad ass in her own way. She charges off after James in the desert when the men folk are sitting around pondering their next move. She also has the gull to try and pull one over on the Soviet Union.
You have many supporters for that point of view and I'm probably the outlier. To me, it's not the fact that Kara is a more "normal person" than the typical Bond Girl that makes her bland. I think Natalya Simonova in Goldeneye is a similarly "normal" woman, but for whatever reason she has more of a lasting impact on me than Kara. Maybe it's just the way the character of Kara is written and/or performed, but for me she is one of the few weak spots in TLD.
Well at least we agree that Natalya is one of the better Bond girls. -{
I do agree with you on Necros. He makes an excellent henchman and an even better carny. Something in his eyes is very menacing. Like he might snap any moment.
"*Necros, a new Grant-like henchman." - I didn't mind the resemblance to Grant at all, and I think Necros is one of the better pure henchmen since the Sixties era Bond films.
I do agree with you on Necros. He makes an excellent henchman and an even better carny. Something in his eyes is very menacing. Like he might snap any moment.
"*Necros, a new Grant-like henchman." - I didn't mind the resemblance to Grant at all, and I think Necros is one of the better pure henchmen since the Sixties era Bond films.
I don't like him. A total Grant rip-off. Even garotting his victims with a personal item (walkman instead of watch).
Comments
Well, there's a first time for everything....
("Hey, Sir Miles, come here quick- you've gotta see this!")
As long as its not Number24's idea of food!
aaarg, was about to edit my post but Barbel saved the evidence already
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
with my crap english, I first thought that he was speaking about a crucifixion
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Only Barbel... Sir Miles sees the dark side even when he's on a sunny beach
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
When I watch Dr. No, I'm not just watching a movie, I'm watching a part of history. TLD is every bit as good, but it lacks that golden aura that makes us feel like we're watching more than just a movie. It's not Dalton's fault or the writer's fault that the movie isn't as highly regarded as some of the older ones. It's just a little bad luck.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Some of the others are down there
V
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
some original Fleming material, shows JB as a professional killer, has a very convincing henchman and I actually like Maryam D'Abo ;% .
On the con side it has a weaker last third and Joe Don Baker, while normaly a fine actor, doesn't convince as the bad guy. His best role will always be Darius Jedburgh.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
So besides that, you liked it pretty well, huh? Glad to see you finally coming around, Higgins!
I pretty much agree with your points with the exception of:
"* Maryan D'Abo. Very good performance as Kara. Perfectly conveys the naivety of the character." - I find her to be a pretty bland Bond Girl
"*Necros, a new Grant-like henchman." - I didn't mind the resemblance to Grant at all, and I think Necros is one of the better pure henchmen since the Sixties era Bond films.
You have many supporters for that point of view and I'm probably the outlier. To me, it's not the fact that Kara is a more "normal person" than the typical Bond Girl that makes her bland. I think Natalya Simonova in Goldeneye is a similarly "normal" woman, but for whatever reason she has more of a lasting impact on me than Kara. Maybe it's just the way the character of Kara is written and/or performed, but for me she is one of the few weak spots in TLD.
I agree qith everything. As you point out, her character develops. First as a young naive girl, then totally badass in the desert (out-"badassing" the Mujahideen, mind you!)
I didn't buy Natalya, whereas Kara is more believable. Definitely Maryan D'Abo plays "normal" better than Izabella Scorupco. Basically the opposite of your post.
Natalya though normal and vulnerable comes over to me buch better that Kara, who is a naive annorexic stupid girl - simply.
Kara to me is after Mayday the most annoying female character in the series, I even liked Ruby more than her
Oh and Kara was not even on my 24 point con list
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well at least we agree that Natalya is one of the better Bond girls. -{
More proof that you get wiser as you age, my friend!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I don't like him. A total Grant rip-off. Even garotting his victims with a personal item (walkman instead of watch).