The main cons revolve around part of it trying to be a Moore movie, the villains, and the Glen trademarks. But the pros outweigh cons by far
1. PTS is thrilling (but unfortunately filmed unimaginatively)
2. Green 4 vs Necros
3. Exploding milk bottles
4. Necros is a Grant rip off but he's still great
5. Kara druggin Bond
6. Jail scene in Afghanistan
7. Pushkin and Bond's scenes
8. Aston ice chase and the cello bit
9. Fight on the nets at the back of plane.
It's got everything I love about Bond, done (mostly) well, in it.
Following our never-ending longterm strategy for world domination, we've not avoided immense cost and created a CI, which is reflected in our membership certificate, which is now handed out to new members:
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I can't think of any real cons for this film. The large number of villains confused me the first time I watched it, but by the second time I watched it that was fine. Though I think it has the best score of any Bond film, I've never cared for the drum machines. I'm not sure if the harder edge could be achieved without it, but I just don't like drum machines. I'm a big film score fan, and TLD's score is one of my all-time favourites, so the drum machines obviously don't bother me enough to see through them.
- Dalton's performance is flawless and incredible, like the books
- The plot, although confusing is memorable and it gets better on every watch
- Many similarities to FYEO in direction and plot. I love John Glen's direction here.
- John Barry's score is amazing, especially on his last performance
- Maryam D'Abo is a beautiful actress and one of the best Bond girls
- Locations are spot on - perfect. Slovakia, Austria and Morocco
- The ice chase, and the new Aston Martin V8
- Saunders and Kamran Shah
- Koskov's performance
- The fight between Green 4 and Necros at the Bladen Safe House
- PTS is the best of the 80's next to Octopussy
Con's:
- Weak villains in comparison to previous Glen films
- Afghanistan, unmemorable location
- Poor final showdown between Bond and Whittaker, nothing for Koskov
- I felt that having 'M' and 'Bond' in a struggle at the safe house during Necros' attack would have been more interesting
- Biggest Flaw - As much as I love John Rhys Davies, the part should have been given to General Gogol
Wadsy, I definitely agree that Pushkin's part should have been given to Gogol, and with the familiar character it would have had more impact. But since Walter Gotell was not well at the time, John Rhys Davies did a fantastic job at replacing him. I don't really see it as a con because they did the best they could in the situation. It would have had more impact on the series overall, but the film alone doesn't suffer from it by any means.
Wadsy, I definitely agree that Pushkin's part should have been given to Gogol, and with the familiar character it would have had more impact. But since Walter Gotell was not well at the time, John Rhys Davies did a fantastic job at replacing him. I don't really see it as a con because they did the best they could in the situation. It would have had more impact on the series overall, but the film alone doesn't suffer from it by any means.
I've always like TLD, and I rate it in my top 5. One of the big reasons why I love it is the soundtrack, I remember someone giving me the vinyl (with the stunning white dress leg on it) when I was about 10 - quite a big deal!
Pros:
- Dalton's performance is pretty bang-on for a first outing. He handles some heavy scenes that Bond never had before. Love the delivery of his lines, and the layered performance. Shame it didn't really follow through in LTK.
- I enjoy the "Death to Spies" element, would be quite spooky for the agents.
- The Aston V8 is bloody awesome.
- Q Branch sequence - similar to OP. Fun.
- PTS is up there for me, after TSWLM and TND.
- Vienna, classical music elements are beautiful - nice depth for a classical fan :007)
- Pushkin/Bond working together. Joe-Don Baker's acting.
- Entire Hercules scenes.
- Barry's best score IMO.
- Similar to TWINE, MI6 is being played - Bond wins a wee bit rogue.
- Murder at the fair is a powerful and sad scene.
- Necros is good, humorous too with the accents.
- Kara is beautiful, reminds me of my partner in terms of looks ;% she likes her too.
- Cinematography is good.
- I enjoy the romance between Bond/Kara - it's sweet (written a certain way for 80s reasons).
- Pushkin's entrance at the end to save Bond and "put him in the diplomatic bag" is a different, welcome ending.
- Sniper scene is stunning.
- The deletion of the deleted scenes (magic carpet - thank god).
- Title song is heavily criticised, but I like it, particularly the instrumental sequence in it.
- Awesome lines like "He met his waterloo." "Salt corrosion" "Should've bought lilies"
- F-ing love the "If only I could find a real man!" I feel that Dalton does this well, owns the scene.
Cons:
- Whittaker is a dumb villan.
- Koskov isn't that great either.
- Raid of the air-base feels a bit cheaply done.
- Pig and Harrier scenes do drag; don't like Dalton's acting here.
- Bond not shooting Whittaker somewhere other than the shield only covering his face.
- Felix Leiter, the girls.
- Kara's handling of the instruments in the plane.
Great pros and cons. The main thing I disagree on is his delivery of the "Salt Corrosion" line. Good line but poorly delivered and definitely written for Moore.
Pretty much the whole movie for me. One of my favorites and Tim's Bond inspired me to actually read the novels. A few specifics:
Timothy Dalton's Bond
John Barry's score
Chemistry with Maryam.
Necros is probably my favorite later era Grant clone type villian.
Those are really lame examples of pros though.
What makes Daylights so special for me is that I still get the same fun and thrill watching it now as I did as a kid in 1987. I had really gotten into Bond in the past few years and here was a new film intending to bring the atmosphere of Fleming back.
It was interesting to see what would be done with the formula as well.
How close would the style be to the previous recent films? The John Glen films with the exception of LTK all had similar types of scenes that for me were fun to look for.
For example: this , OP and AVTAK all have scenes where Bond steals a jacket to disguise himself. In Op it was the circus uniform jacket, in View Zorin the Industries jacket and here army coat at the airbase. Similar font in the titles, the pre-credit sequences were chase or stunt filled openings in the 80s.
With Daylights I felt was the best of these elements. Also, there was slight tweaking in the narrative structure of this film. For example, post titles has Bond already on assignment as opposed to cutting to the London/M briefing. Simple . Daylights is one film that proves you don't need to toss out the entire formula to make a Bond film closer in feel to Fleming.
Cons:
I suppose the sequence with the exposed showering soldiers wasn't THAT funny.
Really not much to nit pick about for me on this one. I was 12 when it opened and I had to see it a couple times before I began to understand the plot, thought.
What's the problem with the "salt corrosion" line? Perhaps it's not Connery's "double blowout" line, but I've always thought Dalton's delivery was great. It's not a silly Roger Moore line.
What's the problem with the "salt corrosion" line? Perhaps it's not Connery's "double blowout" line, but I've always thought Dalton's delivery was great. It's not a silly Roger Moore line.
But if Roger had said it, it would have come with a smooth knowing smile & possibly a "darling" at the end. And it would have worked. But Dalton wasn't 'doing' Moore.
I think everyone had a distinct style with their humour. Dalton was just generally a little awkward with a few aspects of his performances - something that is probably from his acting mediums.
Connery says them deadpan, sometimes with an element of condescension.
Moore told jokes/one-liners so well that it just slides into the dialogue so naturally.
Brosnan - flirtatious, charming manner. Almost in a similar way to Moore. The Saint and Remington Steele are somewhat similar jokey backgrounds.
Craig - understated or cheeky.
Dalton - rhyming/poetic nature or matter-of-fact. Theatre/Shakespearean influences?
I think everyone had a distinct style with their humour. Dalton was just generally a little awkward with a few aspects of his performances - something that is probably from his acting mediums.
Connery says them deadpan, sometimes with an element of condescension.
Moore told jokes/one-liners so well that it just slides into the dialogue so naturally.
Brosnan - flirtatious, charming manner. Almost in a similar way to Moore. The Saint and Remington Steele are somewhat similar jokey backgrounds.
Craig - understated or cheeky.
Dalton - rhyming/poetic nature or matter-of-fact. Theatre/Shakespearean influences?
Nice distinctions. Spot-on, I'd say. And I love 'em all! -{
What's the problem with the "salt corrosion" line? Perhaps it's not Connery's "double blowout" line, but I've always thought Dalton's delivery was great. It's not a silly Roger Moore line.
But if Roger had said it, it would have come with a smooth knowing smile & possibly a "darling" at the end. And it would have worked. But Dalton wasn't 'doing' Moore.
No he wasn't, but he made it work in his own way. I like how he says it in a completely serious tone.
I don't think people would mind it so much if they didn't keep reading on here that Dalton is bad at saying that line. People complain that Roger Moore was too funny, but then complain that Timothy Dalton is bad at jokes. Dalton's delivery of a joke like it's not a joke is why it's so great.
Comments
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
1. PTS is thrilling (but unfortunately filmed unimaginatively)
2. Green 4 vs Necros
3. Exploding milk bottles
4. Necros is a Grant rip off but he's still great
5. Kara druggin Bond
6. Jail scene in Afghanistan
7. Pushkin and Bond's scenes
8. Aston ice chase and the cello bit
9. Fight on the nets at the back of plane.
It's got everything I love about Bond, done (mostly) well, in it.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I love it
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Pros:
Dalton
Necros is cool
Kara at the end
Very tense movie
The score
Cons:
Kara in the rest of the movie
M
Necros should not have taken so many hits by that guard in the kitchen fight
This movie will always have a special place in my heart because its my very first Bond movie and it still holds up today -{
My third favourite Bond film...
Pro's:
- Dalton's performance is flawless and incredible, like the books
- The plot, although confusing is memorable and it gets better on every watch
- Many similarities to FYEO in direction and plot. I love John Glen's direction here.
- John Barry's score is amazing, especially on his last performance
- Maryam D'Abo is a beautiful actress and one of the best Bond girls
- Locations are spot on - perfect. Slovakia, Austria and Morocco
- The ice chase, and the new Aston Martin V8
- Saunders and Kamran Shah
- Koskov's performance
- The fight between Green 4 and Necros at the Bladen Safe House
- PTS is the best of the 80's next to Octopussy
Con's:
- Weak villains in comparison to previous Glen films
- Afghanistan, unmemorable location
- Poor final showdown between Bond and Whittaker, nothing for Koskov
- I felt that having 'M' and 'Bond' in a struggle at the safe house during Necros' attack would have been more interesting
- Biggest Flaw - As much as I love John Rhys Davies, the part should have been given to General Gogol
-
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Pros:
- Dalton's performance is pretty bang-on for a first outing. He handles some heavy scenes that Bond never had before. Love the delivery of his lines, and the layered performance. Shame it didn't really follow through in LTK.
- I enjoy the "Death to Spies" element, would be quite spooky for the agents.
- The Aston V8 is bloody awesome.
- Q Branch sequence - similar to OP. Fun.
- PTS is up there for me, after TSWLM and TND.
- Vienna, classical music elements are beautiful - nice depth for a classical fan :007)
- Pushkin/Bond working together. Joe-Don Baker's acting.
- Entire Hercules scenes.
- Barry's best score IMO.
- Similar to TWINE, MI6 is being played - Bond wins a wee bit rogue.
- Murder at the fair is a powerful and sad scene.
- Necros is good, humorous too with the accents.
- Kara is beautiful, reminds me of my partner in terms of looks ;% she likes her too.
- Cinematography is good.
- I enjoy the romance between Bond/Kara - it's sweet (written a certain way for 80s reasons).
- Pushkin's entrance at the end to save Bond and "put him in the diplomatic bag" is a different, welcome ending.
- Sniper scene is stunning.
- The deletion of the deleted scenes (magic carpet - thank god).
- Title song is heavily criticised, but I like it, particularly the instrumental sequence in it.
- Awesome lines like "He met his waterloo." "Salt corrosion" "Should've bought lilies"
- F-ing love the "If only I could find a real man!" I feel that Dalton does this well, owns the scene.
Cons:
- Whittaker is a dumb villan.
- Koskov isn't that great either.
- Raid of the air-base feels a bit cheaply done.
- Pig and Harrier scenes do drag; don't like Dalton's acting here.
- Bond not shooting Whittaker somewhere other than the shield only covering his face.
- Felix Leiter, the girls.
- Kara's handling of the instruments in the plane.
An awesome Bond film.
"Better make that two."
Pretty much the whole movie for me. One of my favorites and Tim's Bond inspired me to actually read the novels. A few specifics:
Timothy Dalton's Bond
John Barry's score
Chemistry with Maryam.
Necros is probably my favorite later era Grant clone type villian.
Those are really lame examples of pros though.
What makes Daylights so special for me is that I still get the same fun and thrill watching it now as I did as a kid in 1987. I had really gotten into Bond in the past few years and here was a new film intending to bring the atmosphere of Fleming back.
It was interesting to see what would be done with the formula as well.
How close would the style be to the previous recent films? The John Glen films with the exception of LTK all had similar types of scenes that for me were fun to look for.
For example: this , OP and AVTAK all have scenes where Bond steals a jacket to disguise himself. In Op it was the circus uniform jacket, in View Zorin the Industries jacket and here army coat at the airbase. Similar font in the titles, the pre-credit sequences were chase or stunt filled openings in the 80s.
With Daylights I felt was the best of these elements. Also, there was slight tweaking in the narrative structure of this film. For example, post titles has Bond already on assignment as opposed to cutting to the London/M briefing. Simple . Daylights is one film that proves you don't need to toss out the entire formula to make a Bond film closer in feel to Fleming.
Cons:
I suppose the sequence with the exposed showering soldiers wasn't THAT funny.
Really not much to nit pick about for me on this one. I was 12 when it opened and I had to see it a couple times before I began to understand the plot, thought.
I kinda like the flawed delivery of "Salt Corrosion", Kara doesn't seem to understand most nuances from Bond anyway
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Connery says them deadpan, sometimes with an element of condescension.
Moore told jokes/one-liners so well that it just slides into the dialogue so naturally.
Brosnan - flirtatious, charming manner. Almost in a similar way to Moore. The Saint and Remington Steele are somewhat similar jokey backgrounds.
Craig - understated or cheeky.
Dalton - rhyming/poetic nature or matter-of-fact. Theatre/Shakespearean influences?
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
No he wasn't, but he made it work in his own way. I like how he says it in a completely serious tone.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Here's the clip: https://youtu.be/KMqP7v0uSFU?t=39s
I don't think people would mind it so much if they didn't keep reading on here that Dalton is bad at saying that line. People complain that Roger Moore was too funny, but then complain that Timothy Dalton is bad at jokes. Dalton's delivery of a joke like it's not a joke is why it's so great.