Pros and Cons: Goldeneye

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  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    then why don't you tell us in a few sentences how you yould have made Goldeneye? ;)
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    then why don't you tell us in a few sentences how you yould have made Goldeneye? ;)

    If it is still unclear to you ---> Highly entertaining with a balance b/w style and substance w/o characters or portrayals such as Onatopp, Natalya, etc.

    I don't know why you have to strongly defend the film. Is it because it has a lot of Russian characters and you are from Russia with love? .... Btw, FRWL is my top ranked film :)
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    the intention behind it was, that when you listed all of these "crude" elements, I wqnted to know how you would have improved it then in concret.

    Nah, I'm no russian ;)
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    edited December 2015
    the intention behind it was, that when you listed all of these "crude" elements, I wqnted to know how you would have improved it then in concret.

    As I said or implied, I would have made many changes to the film. Just based on what is on the table - I would probably have taken the 006 angle out keeping only the section of Russians betrayed by British as the motivation for the villain to destroy Britain. Next, how would he do it? By keeping the Tiger helicopter and GE elements.

    So re-visioning the film in 5 mins (ofc one can do so many versions :D ):

    * Keeping the PTS mostly as-is but w/o 006. Bond is tasked with blowing up the chemical weapons facility. He plants bombs, gets captured and escapes
    * Title sequence, and then opening with the AM-Ferrari race
    * Post AM-Ferrari race, Bond get involved with Onatopp romantically
    * Bond is on the team responsible for protecting the Tiger. However, Bond gets used by Onatopp who steals the Tiger with her team. I would have more elaborate sequences on how the Tiger is stolen (not a lazy stitching of elements from TB)
    * Trevelyan and his team steal GE using Tiger
    * Bond is tasked with recovering GE and now also has a personal score to settle with Onatopp
    * Onatopp is traced to Trevelyan, who is a shipping tycoon currently based in Greece
    * Bond breaks in to Trevelyan's operations in Greece. Bond gets captured.Trevelyan carelessly tells about his plans to punish UK
    * A Russian sub is to be used to strike UK. One of the bombs in a Russian sub would be switched with real nukes which is to be fired at UK. The sub, along with electronic monitoring systems in UK, would be eliminated by GE leaving no evidence
    * Onatopp is assigned with the task to eliminate Bond. Bond gets tortured on a yatch
    * Bond discusses Trevelyan plan with Onatopp who is unaware about Trevelyan's plan to use real nukes. She was led to believe that this operation was about disrupting UK electronic systems and robbing it of the money to punish it. Onatopp's family had suffered from British betrayal too which is why she is in it besides the $$$
    * Bond and Onatopp join forces. It is a battle against time - where the Russian sub with real nuke needs to be identified and neutralized. Trevelyan needs to be caught before he can activate the GE and start the chaos
    * Now on one hand we have one person (Trevelyan) whose family was betrayed by the British seeking revenge, and on the other hand, another one (Onatopp) fighting to save a lot of innocent lives despite the grudge
    * The Bond and Onatopp raid Trevelyan's high tech base in Libya (tank sequence can be used here). They manage to destroy the base and Trevelyan
    * However, Trevelyan, at that point, has the last laugh - the sub will be on its way soon. Since he is dying, he does not care if the nukes gets traced back to Russia which would get punished too for Stalin's crimes
    * Bond and Onatopp locate the sub and use GE for the last time to destroy the sub. GE gets destroyed too

    This is just one version. Other versions could be rolled out as well

    Cast:
    Bond - PB
    Trevelyan - Bean
    Onatopp - Janssen
    Natalya - Scorupco (As an undercover agent posing as Trevelyan's love interest and assisting Bond in Greece)
    Ouromov - Survivor of the chemical weapon facility blast and now in charge of Russian Sub with nukes
    Boris - Assists Trevelyan in operating GE

    Locations and major acts:
    Act 1 - PTS
    Act 2 - Monaco: Bond and Onatopp's relationship. Tiger gets stolen
    Act 3 - Russia: Trevelyan and his team steal GE
    Act 4 - Greece: Bond-Natalya meeting (beach scene insert). Bond, along with Natalya, breaks in to Trevelyan's HQ. Bond's captured (BMW and its gadgets can be used here). Trevelyan kills Natalya once he learns about her true identity
    Act 5 - On a yacht somewhere in the Mediterranean: Bond gets tortured. Bond-Onatopp join forces, and sail towards Libya
    Act 6 - Libya: Tank sequence, Trevelyan's death
    Act 7 - Libya and somewhere underwater in the North Sea: Bond and Onatopp locate and destroy the sub with the help of GE. GE gets destroyed too in the process
    Act 8 - North Sea: A UK-Russia joint team recovers the nuke from the sunken sub
    Act 9 - On the yacht somewhere in the Mediterranean: We get to see another good example of UK-Russia cooperation

    Nah, I'm no russian ;)

    Oh ok. I thought may be you could be too emotionally connected with the film for other reasons
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    being the first Bond I've ever seen could be counted as "emotionally connected" to the film.
    I think it's a great film, but my favourite is another one (but if I said that out loud, I'd get lynched)
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • am747am747 Posts: 720MI6 Agent
    being the first Bond I've ever seen could be counted as "emotionally connected" to the film.
    I think it's a great film, but my favourite is another one (but if I said that out loud, I'd get lynched)

    Based on what you said, your taste probably is yet to be refined :p


    {[]
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    now that was crude :v
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • JagJag Posts: 1,167MI6 Agent
    being the first Bond I've ever seen could be counted as "emotionally connected" to the film.
    I think it's a great film, but my favourite is another one (but if I said that out loud, I'd get lynched)


    Whatever your favourite is, I am prepared to stop the mob and tell the one who only likes uncontroversial choices to throw the first stone.

    What some people here have listed as bad points of GE, to me are often its highlights...
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Jag wrote:
    being the first Bond I've ever seen could be counted as "emotionally connected" to the film.
    I think it's a great film, but my favourite is another one (but if I said that out loud, I'd get lynched)


    Whatever your favourite is, I am prepared to stop the mob and tell the one who only likes uncontroversial choices to throw the first stone.

    What some people here have listed as bad points of GE, to me are often its highlights...

    Hmm, yes---that can be said by someone for each and every film -{ There's no limit to the divergence of Bond opinions!
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 344MI6 Agent
    Great film certainly my favorite!
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Have to say that GE has one of the most amazing runs of perfect Bond cinema between the Gunbarrel, PTS, through the title credits/song all the way up until and including the casino scene.

    Excellent stuff.

    For me, the intro the Tina's song, the explosion and the start of the credits is priceless.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • eric7064eric7064 USAPosts: 344MI6 Agent
    Have to say that GE has one of the most amazing runs of perfect Bond cinema between the Gunbarrel, PTS, through the title credits/song all the way up until and including the casino scene.

    Excellent stuff.

    For me, the intro the Tina's song, the explosion and the start of the credits is priceless.

    With you all the way on that one!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    eric7064 wrote:
    Have to say that GE has one of the most amazing runs of perfect Bond cinema between the Gunbarrel, PTS, through the title credits/song all the way up until and including the casino scene.

    Excellent stuff.

    For me, the intro the Tina's song, the explosion and the start of the credits is priceless.

    With you all the way on that one!
    Me too.
    (damn, another Brosnan quote...)
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • MarcAngeDracoMarcAngeDraco Piz GloriaPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    Goldeneye and 'cons' are only used in a sentence whereby it's said that the film hasn't any.
    Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
    Goldeneye and 'cons' are only used in a sentence whereby it's said that the film hasn't any.

    It does drag on a bit in the final third though... :#
    YNWA 97
  • MarcAngeDracoMarcAngeDraco Piz GloriaPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    I don't agree. Two of the best scenes in the film happen in the final third - Bond and Natalya on the beach and Bond vs Alec on the dish - and they are up there with the best scenes because the lead up to them is so fluid. But that's just me. :)
    Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,112MI6 Agent
    Pros

    Bungee jump was excellent

    Onnatopp is a brilliant OTT henchwoman

    Casino scene

    Bond having a race with Onnatopp through Monte Carlo

    Tank chase in St Petersburg

    Boris adds comic relief

    Fight on the dish between Bond and Trevelayan

    Cons

    If Trevelayan was played by an older actor, his backstory about his parents being killed in 1945 would've made sense. Trevelayan looks as if he's in his 30's
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

    " I don't listen to hip hop!"
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
    I don't agree. Two of the best scenes in the film happen in the final third - Bond and Natalya on the beach and Bond vs Alec on the dish - and they are up there with the best scenes because the lead up to them is so fluid. But that's just me. :)

    That fine - all opinions are valid -{

    I just get bored towards the end...
    YNWA 97
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    I don't agree. Two of the best scenes in the film happen in the final third - Bond and Natalya on the beach and Bond vs Alec on the dish - and they are up there with the best scenes because the lead up to them is so fluid. But that's just me. :)

    That fine - all opinions are valid -{

    I just get bored towards the end...
    Us older folk tend to get tired earlier in the evening than we used to; it's the way of things.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    I don't agree. Two of the best scenes in the film happen in the final third - Bond and Natalya on the beach and Bond vs Alec on the dish - and they are up there with the best scenes because the lead up to them is so fluid. But that's just me. :)

    That fine - all opinions are valid -{

    I just get bored towards the end...

    I find that GE has its dragging and boring elements after the Casino Scene and all the way up until Cuba. It reminds me of parts of Thunderball where there is far too much time spent on boring plot set-up. To me, the film really kicks into good and interesting gear just before it finishes....

    I also have an issue with how apologetic the film is about the Bond sexist past - it confuses Pierce's otherwise excellent, physical portrayal.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
    chrisisall wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    I don't agree. Two of the best scenes in the film happen in the final third - Bond and Natalya on the beach and Bond vs Alec on the dish - and they are up there with the best scenes because the lead up to them is so fluid. But that's just me. :)

    That fine - all opinions are valid -{

    I just get bored towards the end...
    Us older folk tend to get tired earlier in the evening than we used to; it's the way of things.

    Yeah...and I do like an afternoon nap :D
    YNWA 97
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:

    That fine - all opinions are valid -{

    I just get bored towards the end...
    Us older folk tend to get tired earlier in the evening than we used to; it's the way of things.

    Yeah...and I do like an afternoon nap :D
    it's something of a must with me... :))
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • WadsyWadsy Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 412MI6 Agent
    Goldeneye is certainly an interesting film, and definitely Pierce Brosnan's best Bond movie.

    Pro's:

    Great locations - Monaco (Very Bondian), Russia and Cuba
    One of the best villains (surprise twist when Alec reveals himself to be the villain
    The Bond girls - both Natalia and Xenia
    The excellent pre credits sequence
    The car scene after the title sequence (the only decent one in the Brosnan era)
    Terrific action, especially during the tank chase in Russia
    It follows the cold war closely, even post-war. It feels like a typical cold war Bond thriller

    Con's:

    I only have one flaw about this movie and sadly, it brings it completely down from the top three to the bottom 10. This movie SHOULD have starred Timothy Dalton in his third and final performance. When I watch this, it feels like it was completely made for Timothy Dalton but we instead got who I feel to be the worst Bond actor of the entire series. Had Dalton stayed for this, we would have had my opinion for best Bond actor perform in the role. Such a shame.
    1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. LTK 4. FRWL 5. TLD 6. TSWLM 7. AVTAK 8. GF 9. MR 10. TB 11. OP 12. SF 13. DN 14. SP 15. LALD 16. GE 17. CR 18. YOLT 19. TWINE 20. TMWTGG 21. NTTD 22. TND 23. QOS 24. NSNA 25. DAD 26. DAF 27. CR '67

    1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Wadsy wrote:
    I only have one flaw about this movie and sadly, it brings it completely down from the top three to the bottom 10. This movie SHOULD have starred Timothy Dalton in his third and final performance. When I watch this, it feels like it was completely made for Timothy Dalton but we instead got who I feel to be the worst Bond actor of the entire series. Had Dalton stayed for this, we would have had my opinion for best Bond actor perform in the role. Such a shame.

    Seems we agree on quite a bit but I'm gonna have to call this one out. This film is a 90s Bond film that's not at all made for Dalton, who's a late 80s Bond. Goldeneye is a great continuation considering the hiatus and past - and it's made for Brosnan, who was supposed to be Bond ahead of Dalton.

    My criticism of the film is that it's apologetic for the Bond past and hasn't completely found its feet. Bond feels at times out of place, and not completely confident in who he is. He's the hero, but he's a hero that oddly has to prove himself - and never fully does so.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • jasper_lamar_crabbjasper_lamar_crabb Posts: 169MI6 Agent
    Goldeneye is full of cons. A disgustingly overrated film. The Brosnan films make me embarrassed to be a Bond fan and Goldeneye is a massive slab of cheese.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Wadsy wrote:
    I only have one flaw about this movie and sadly, it brings it completely down from the top three to the bottom 10. This movie SHOULD have starred Timothy Dalton in his third and final performance. When I watch this, it feels like it was completely made for Timothy Dalton but we instead got who I feel to be the worst Bond actor of the entire series. Had Dalton stayed for this, we would have had my opinion for best Bond actor perform in the role. Such a shame.

    Seems we agree on quite a bit but I'm gonna have to call this one out. This film is a 90s Bond film that's not at all made for Dalton, who's a late 80s Bond. Goldeneye is a great continuation considering the hiatus and past - and it's made for Brosnan, who was supposed to be Bond ahead of Dalton.

    My criticism of the film is that it's apologetic for the Bond past and hasn't completely found its feet. Bond feels at times out of place, and not completely confident in who he is. He's the hero, but he's a hero that oddly has to prove himself - and never fully does so.

    Well put. That sense of existential unease is central to the narrative and we'll conveyed by Brosnan. Whether this is by accident or design does not bother me much. It's similar to Lazenby's lack of polish as it works for and not against him. I would have loved a third from Dalton and yes he would have been great in it, but it doesn't feel like it was his film. I dislike some of the close cropped almost TV like cinematography, and the score in general was a brave but failed attempt in my view. The section in the station where we witness the destruction goes on FOREVER, seriously, I loose the will to live. However after such along break and period of uncertainty I think it's a good Bond film. The close quarters puchup is amongst the series best. I like it.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    My criticism of the film is that it's apologetic for the Bond past and hasn't completely found its feet. Bond feels at times out of place, and not completely confident in who he is. He's the hero, but he's a hero that oddly has to prove himself - and never fully does so.

    I feel the same way about GoldenEye, as well as about all of Craig's films. This approach really brings the films down.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • GrindelwaldGrindelwald Posts: 1,341MI6 Agent
    I'm gonna keep an eye on ebay and/or bondcollectibles , so help me God if I see my lobby for sale that was sgd by John & Janssen , it was stolen in Berlin X-(
  • Mr_OsatoMr_Osato Posts: 398MI6 Agent
    Pro's

    - Brosnan looks the business. Charm, humor and also looks like a serious killer
    - Onatop is one of the best henchwomen.
    - Great plot
    - Locations: excellent idea to go into Russia
    - loved the pre-title scene
    - The tank chase

    Con's

    - Didn't like Wade too much
    - The soundtrack is the worst of the series

    All in all, a near perfect movie. Such a shame Pierce did not have more of this kind of material to work with in later movies.
    OHMSS, FRWL, DN, GF, CR, GE, SP, YOLT, TB, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD

    1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
  • UnderwaterBattle007UnderwaterBattle007 Posts: 284MI6 Agent
    So my Bond marathon continues as I have just finished watching Goldeneye this afternoon due to my football team not playing until tomorrow.

    I'm not sure where to begin with this really, but I suppose you have to teleport yourself back to 1995 when the film first came out. As we all know there had been a 6-year hiatus, due to legal wranglings, and I know in the lead up to the release of the film my two small boys were very excited as this would be their first James Bond film at the cinema.

    Maybe I enjoyed the film more at the cinema because they were there with me and it made a pleasant change being able to take them to a Bond film rather than a teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie.

    So on first view I enjoyed the film probably because they enjoyed it.

    So now as I watch the blu ray version of this I have to say that it was good to see this film in it's best ever condition. I love the opening sequence and the bungee jump. I do get the plot of betrayal by the British at the end of the war. I understand 006 would have been had to be 50 years of age if his parents had killed themselves immediately at the end of the War, but I got the feeling they didn't committ suicide until much later because they couldn't live with the shame.

    I think Sean Bean does a good job as 006 and plays the character well. Ok some of the script wriring is a bit limp, but overall I felt it was a good relaunce for the series.

    Brosnan plays Bond adequately, as others have said you can see Connery, Dalton and Moore in his Bond. I think he moves quite well, and there are some decent fight sequences and a joy to see the uncut version in this blu ray release. The head but is fantastic. The whole sequence with the tank is great, and is one of the highlights of the film for me.

    So overall I enjoyed it, there are better Brosnan Bond films but there is definately one a lot worse (I'll cross that bridge when I come to it) Not a great film but also not a poor film. a 7/10 for me.
    FRWl, CR, OHMSS, TSWLM, SF, GF, TLD, LTK, TND, FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TB, SPECTRE, DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, QOS, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK, NTTD.

    "Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
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