Just watched it again and my opinion is about the same.
Pros
-top-shelf Bond girl in Natalya
-great villain
-Xenia is an amazing henchwoman
-Oroumov is a interesting side villain
-the Tank chase
-briefing scene with Judi Dench is unforgettable, such a great choice for M
-fast-paced and never dull
-Eric Serra score is underrated and works brilliantly for the most part
-consistent tone that perfectly balances seriousness with humor
Cons
-some pacing issues in the middle with scene transitions that don't quite mesh
-Jack Wade is an unnecessary and stupid character, should've just used Zukovsky
-The action sequences are a bit too "Die Hard" with a few shots obviously lifted from it
-the BMW that is never even used except for a leisurely drive through the Cuban countryside
-needs more Izabella Scorupco fanservice, just saying. She's dressed like a schoolmarm through almost the entire film
Maybe I should have used different language, but didn't know what else to call it. I'm not saying it slowed down or was dull, only that there are scenes that feel a bit superfluous and then swoosh off to the next scene and it's never brought up again. That's why I brought up scene transitions, in the latter half of the movie there are some issues with the "flow" which sometimes feels unnatural and a bit too fast-paced for the movie's own good, if that makes any sense. I think they could have slowed things down just a bit in parts and concentrate more on intrigue and less on action.
Mixed feelings about Jack Wade. I wonder if they should have just called him Felix Leiter?
I imagine the logic was that in the previous film he was turned into a cripple and probably retired, so hey have this new guy that's basically Leiter and Sheriff J.W. Pepper thrown into a blender. Honestly they should have just expanded Zukovsky's role, have him use his criminal contacts to help Bond raid Trevelyan's base, similar to what they did in OHMSS.
Maybe I should have used different language, but didn't know what else to call it. I'm not saying it slowed down or was dull, only that there are scenes that feel a bit superfluous and then swoosh off to the next scene and it's never brought up again. That's why I brought up scene transitions, in the latter half of the movie there are some issues with the "flow" which sometimes feels unnatural and a bit too fast-paced for the movie's own good, if that makes any sense. I think they could have slowed things down just a bit in parts and concentrate more on intrigue and less on action.
I agree that the film has some issues with editing and its piecing together. I found on last viewing I became a bit bored in the middle, but didn't want it to end when it kicked up a notch for the finale.
That's why I brought up scene transitions, in the latter half of the movie there are some issues with the "flow" which sometimes feels unnatural
Can you provide an example?
I have a hard time following some of the more intricate plot points of Goldeneye and it might be because of the scenes quickly move forward and it never ties together. Such as:
Bond is basically on his own…yet how does he quickly come up with this elaborate scheme to appeal to Z's wallet? Like how did Bond coordinate all that on a moment's notice? Not even Wade knew what was going on.
or
Apparently Janus has a helicopter pilot who looks like the admiral. Yet, we never really see him again. Not exactly a plot hole, but just kind of strange how they rushed over this. Also, I doubt a helicopter pilot would be that old.
or
The backstory involving Alec's parents is overly complicated to the point where fans are getting out their calculators to see if he would be the right age for such events.
or
Xenia goes to collect Bond and yet ends up driving him while being held at gunpoint. How did Janus let Bond get the upper hand here?
Why would Bond think that Z could set him up with Janus? Why would Janus agree to meet Bond? The spa scene has never made any sense to me. Go swimming and relax…a Janus representative will be with you shortly.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
One example would be after Bond talks business with Zukovsky about setting up a meeting, and then we immediately go to Bond chilling in a pool before Xenia shows up. What? What happened inbetween then? Is this the meeting Zukovsky set up? It seems so stilted and bizarre to me, and how Zukovsky gets one great scene and isn't brought up again, makes his entire role in the movie superfluous. And this irritates me because he's such a great character but terribly underutilized. Why give him such a great introduction if you're just going to toss him aside and never bring him up again? Makes no sense
I have a hard time following some of the more intricate plot points of Goldeneye and it might be because of the scenes quickly move forward and it never ties together. Such as:
Bond is basically on his own…yet how does he quickly come up with this elaborate scheme to appeal to Z's wallet? Like how did Bond coordinate all that on a moment's notice? Not even Wade knew what was going on.
or
Apparently Janus has a helicopter pilot who looks like the admiral. Yet, we never really see him again. Not exactly a plot hole, but just kind of strange how they rushed over this. Also, I doubt a helicopter pilot would be that old.
or
The backstory involving Alec's parents is overly complicated to the point where fans are getting out their calculators to see if he would be the right age for such events.
or
Xenia goes to collect Bond and yet ends up driving him while being held at gunpoint. How did Janus let Bond get the upper hand here?
Why would Bond think that Z could set him up with Janus? Why would Janus agree to meet Bond? The spa scene has never made any sense to me. Go swimming and relax…a Janus representative will be with you shortly.
I agree on all of these. The movie just swishes past all of these issues to get to the next action sequence, leaving me confused in its wake. Slow down movie, geez.
The issues you're both talking about are the general "insert action here" faults that all of the Brosnan movies have - the one with the least issues on this front seems to be DAD (crazily).
The issues you're both talking about are the general "insert action here" faults that all of the Brosnan movies have
There is truth to this. One of the main reasons I think TWINE is the best of the Brosnan era is its greater focus on characterization and story compared to Brosnan's other films. Originally I found this boring and too convoluted, but now I love it and I think it makes the film a far more satisfying experience than GE or TND.
There are definitely instances of "insert action here" but they seem more like pit-stops in the storytelling rather than the focus, which makes them more palatable.
The issues you're both talking about are the general "insert action here" faults that all of the Brosnan movies have
There is truth to this. One of the main reasons I think TWINE is the best of the Brosnan era is its greater focus on characterization and story compared to Brosnan's other films. Originally I found this boring and too convoluted, but now I love it and I think it makes the film a far more satisfying experience than GE or TND.
There are definitely instances of "insert action here" but they seem more like pit-stops in the storytelling rather than the focus, which makes them more palatable.
One example would be after Bond talks business with Zukovsky about setting up a meeting, and then we immediately go to Bond chilling in a pool before Xenia shows up. What? What happened inbetween then? Is this the meeting Zukovsky set up? It seems so stilted and bizarre to me, and how Zukovsky gets one great scene and isn't brought up again, makes his entire role in the movie superfluous. And this irritates me because he's such a great character but terribly underutilized. Why give him such a great introduction if you're just going to toss him aside and never bring him up again? Makes no sense
Okay, we are on exactly the same page then!
Also, great point about Z never being brought up again. I never really thought about that before, probably due to his expanded role in TWINE.
The unnatural flow of GE is bookended by the "Nine years later" in the beginning and the "Yo Marines" at the end. (Seriously, if they were there the whole time why didn't they help? It just makes the film that much more disjointed. And don't even get me started on that lame credits song….. X-( )
PS- One more thing about the helicopter pilot. The movie kind of implies that they flew straight to Severnaya, but that would mean the other pilot was Ourumov. So they obviously made a pitstop and the Admiral lookalike switched spots with Ourumov, but again this just contributes to the unnatural flow of the film.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
One of the main reasons I think TWINE is the best of the Brosnan era is its greater focus on characterization and story compared to Brosnan's other films. Originally I found this boring and too convoluted, but now I love it and I think it makes the film a far more satisfying experience than GE or TND.
There are definitely instances of "insert action here" but they seem more like pit-stops in the storytelling rather than the focus, which makes them more palatable.
The parahawks scene in TWINE is an example of insert action here IMO, the parahawks are only attacking Bond/Elektra and not any actual assets. The others are all fine.
PS- One more thing about the helicopter pilot. The movie kind of implies that they flew straight to Severnaya, but that would mean the other pilot was Ourumov. So they obviously made a pitstop and the Admiral lookalike switched spots with Ourumov, but again this just contributes to the unnatural flow of the film.
Don't get me started on the lookalike Admiral. The 'lookalike' is clearly the same actor who is supposed to be dead in the closet. But to your point, isn't the admiral lookalike only getting Ourumov and Xenia into the (Ourumov/Xenia) ceremony so they steal the Tiger?
And don't even get me started on that lame credits song….. X-( )
Heh, if I'm not mistaken the song was meant to be the ending theme for Leon: The Professional, but instead Serra saved it for GE. And yeah, it's like a bad parody of a Phil Collins song.
PS- One more thing about the helicopter pilot. The movie kind of implies that they flew straight to Severnaya, but that would mean the other pilot was Ourumov. So they obviously made a pitstop and the Admiral lookalike switched spots with Ourumov, but again this just contributes to the unnatural flow of the film.
I definitely get the distinct impression there are important scenes missing. I would not have minded a longer running time to fill in some of the blanks.
Ohhhh that does make more sense if the "Admiral" was not a pilot. However, that raises a couple more questions: Would he be allowed to bring two strangers on board? It's implied that security is tight by how much effort goes into getting the Admiral's ID badge. Turns out the event is open to the public. Haha
Also, Bond did not follow up on this lead when he should have known the fake Admiral was likely still onboard the ship.
and
Does the story even require Z to set up a meeting? It makes more sense without it. Bond is relaxing at his hotel, Xenia comes to kill him, Bond defeats her and makes her take him to Janus. Pretty standard stuff really. No special meeting required.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
There's very little about GoldenEye I don't like. I'm not crazy about some of the music, it's great at times and terrible at others. Like the car racing scene. A lot of people hate Boris but I don't mind him. I find the character in general pretty funny in hindsight, it was part of the whole 90's epidemic where computers were becoming a big thing, and hackers were being romanticized on the screen a lot, but nobody who wrote/directed the stuff really knew much about computers it seemed. But the audiences didn't know a lot about computers either so we just believed what they told us. Sure, Jeff Goldblum can just interface his laptop with that alien mother ship, he probably has AOL Platinum Premier. So the whole computers and hacking angle just seems like something a 90's Bond movie wouldn't be complete without, same goes for the annoying/crazy hacker.
^ Boris and Xenia have only become caricatures of the 90s recently (mostly based on your description as to why). Which is okay, you've just got to transport yourself to that time.
Ohhhh that does make more sense if the "Admiral" was not a pilot. However, that raises a couple more questions: Would he be allowed to bring two strangers on board? It's implied that security is tight by how much effort goes into getting the Admiral's ID badge. Turns out the event is open to the public. Haha
^ Boris and Xenia have only become caricatures of the 90s recently (mostly based on your description as to why). Which is okay, you've just got to transport yourself to that time.
With the Tigre I always get the impression that Servenaya takes place days or even weeks or months after the theft , remember Bond has to get back to the UK and is called in due the Tigre being spotted. Orumov was nowhere near the theft, the helicopter was stolen to be used later. Makes perfect sense to me and I never thought otherwise.
With the Tigre I always get the impression that Servenaya takes place days or even weeks or months after the theft , remember Bond has to get back to the UK and is called in due the Tigre being spotted. Orumov was nowhere near the theft, the helicopter was stolen to be used later. Makes perfect sense to me and I never thought otherwise.
Fair enough. I'm looking forward to re-watching it with this in mind. So who were the two Janus pilots?
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
With the Tigre I always get the impression that Servenaya takes place days or even weeks or months after the theft , remember Bond has to get back to the UK and is called in due the Tigre being spotted. Orumov was nowhere near the theft, the helicopter was stolen to be used later. Makes perfect sense to me and I never thought otherwise.
Fair enough. I'm looking forward to re-watching it with this in mind. So who were the two Janus pilots?
One of them is Xenia. According to Wikipedia's plot summary the other is Ourumuv.
It's an easy assumption to make that the other pilot is Ourumuv because he turns up with Xenia in the Tiger in Servenaya and it seems to be immediately after the theft. However, SniperUK's assertion that this wouldn't have been immediate has to be correct - Servenaya is 7000kms away from Monte Carlo - the range of the Tiger is 800kms equalling at least 9 stops.
Watching the scene last night the second crewman getting into the chopper is shorter and heavier, than Xenia not tall and thin like Orumov so the admirals lookalike , how would Orumov get on the ship or the "admiral" get off the ship otherwise ? The Tigre does not need two pilots, one pilot ,Onatopp and an observer, in this case passenger ,the admiral lookalike . Orumov does not need to be anywhere near the theft, he is only needed to get into Servenaya.
Flight to Servenaya at max 200KPH would take 35hrs this does not take in refuelling / rest stops and the route would not be direct. I would think out to a ship in the Med, up through the Bosphorus into the black sea, then onwards from there. Certainly a direct flight would be over at least four countries all with air defence.
After all the talk about the Tiger I decided to watch the film. First time this has struck me, but what's going on with Bond/Brosnan? He's got no personality.
I find the more I watch the Bond films the main reason why I'm interested after all these viewings is watching the leading man and his personality shine. Brosnan's performance here (his fault or not) really lacks and I find that he doesn't really lead the film. There are a few good moments like the tank chase, "penalty for treason!?", "No, for me" etc., but the rest of the time, uninspiring.
Goldeneye has continued its slide in my rankings for a few years now is it me or is this happening with anyone else? Help me AJB counsel!
After all the talk about the Tiger I decided to watch the film. First time this has struck me, but what's going on with Bond/Brosnan? He's got no personality.
I find the more I watch the Bond films the main reason why I'm interested after all these viewings is watching the leading man and his personality shine. Brosnan's performance here (his fault or not) really lacks and I find that he doesn't really lead the film. There are a few good moments like the tank chase, "penalty for treason!?", "No, for me" etc., but the rest of the time, uninspiring.
Goldeneye has continued its slide in my rankings for a few years now is it me or is this happening with anyone else? Help me AJB counsel!
I love the film and I love Brosnan, but his performance in GE is just average. I can't help but wonder if Dalton might have been a much better fit for that particular movie, given its tone and some of the dialogue.
Brosnan seems so much more comfortable in his next three outings
I love the film and I love Brosnan, but his performance in GE is just average. I can't help but wonder if Dalton might have been a much better fit for that particular movie, given its tone and some of the dialogue.
Brosnan seems so much more comfortable in his next three outings
I do think that Dalton would have been better at delivering the poor dialogue in GoldenEye. Brosnan was indeed much more comfortable in his subsequent films.
Although I generally like GE, I agree that Brosnan's performance was a bit bland. Although he was better in TND, I don't think he really hit his stride as Bond until TWINE which I regard as his finest performance. But that's okay because I think all of the Bond actors took a couple of films to be completely comfortable in the role (too bad Lazenby didn't get that opportunity).
Although I generally like GE, I agree that Brosnan's performance was a bit bland. Although he was better in TND, I don't think he really hit his stride as Bond until TWINE which I regard his finest performance. But that's okay because I think all of the Bond actors took a couple of films to be completely comfortable in the role (too bad Lazenby didn't get that opportunity).
I do not think he was bland. He just played Bond very, very cool. It worked well in contrast with Natalya.
Although I generally like GE, I agree that Brosnan's performance was a bit bland. Although he was better in TND, I don't think he really hit his stride as Bond until TWINE which I regard his finest performance. But that's okay because I think all of the Bond actors took a couple of films to be completely comfortable in the role (too bad Lazenby didn't get that opportunity).
I do not think he was bland. He just played Bond very, very cool. It worked well in contrast with Natalya.
I agree with BL. Brozzer was fine, just a bit of a composite Bond, 30% Moore, 20 % Connery, 20% Dalton 30% his own man (we can argue/debate the %) A lot was riding on his narrow shoulders he literally grew into the role IMHO
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Although I generally like GE, I agree that Brosnan's performance was a bit bland. Although he was better in TND, I don't think he really hit his stride as Bond until TWINE which I regard his finest performance. But that's okay because I think all of the Bond actors took a couple of films to be completely comfortable in the role (too bad Lazenby didn't get that opportunity).
I do not think he was bland. He just played Bond very, very cool. It worked well in contrast with Natalya.
I agree with BL. Brozzer was fine, just a bit of a composite Bond, 30% Moore, 20 % Connery, 20% Dalton 30% his own man (we can argue/debate the %) A lot was riding on his narrow shoulders he literally grew into the role IMHO
I don't think Brosnan is given enough credit for excelling at one thing as Bond better then the others, and that's being suave. The guy just owned that aspect of the character. If Moore was the "funny Bond" and Craig the "tough Bond" then I think Brosnan is the "suave Bond".
Comments
Pros
-top-shelf Bond girl in Natalya
-great villain
-Xenia is an amazing henchwoman
-Oroumov is a interesting side villain
-the Tank chase
-briefing scene with Judi Dench is unforgettable, such a great choice for M
-fast-paced and never dull
-Eric Serra score is underrated and works brilliantly for the most part
-consistent tone that perfectly balances seriousness with humor
Cons
-some pacing issues in the middle with scene transitions that don't quite mesh
-Jack Wade is an unnecessary and stupid character, should've just used Zukovsky
-The action sequences are a bit too "Die Hard" with a few shots obviously lifted from it
-the BMW that is never even used except for a leisurely drive through the Cuban countryside
-needs more Izabella Scorupco fanservice, just saying. She's dressed like a schoolmarm through almost the entire film
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
…but you said it was fast paced and never dull?
I agree completely about the BMW not being used.
Mixed feelings about Jack Wade. I wonder if they should have just called him Felix Leiter?
I'm surprised more fans don't enjoy the soundtrack.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
I agree that the film has some issues with editing and its piecing together. I found on last viewing I became a bit bored in the middle, but didn't want it to end when it kicked up a notch for the finale.
"Better make that two."
Can you provide an example?
I have a hard time following some of the more intricate plot points of Goldeneye and it might be because of the scenes quickly move forward and it never ties together. Such as:
Bond is basically on his own…yet how does he quickly come up with this elaborate scheme to appeal to Z's wallet? Like how did Bond coordinate all that on a moment's notice? Not even Wade knew what was going on.
or
Apparently Janus has a helicopter pilot who looks like the admiral. Yet, we never really see him again. Not exactly a plot hole, but just kind of strange how they rushed over this. Also, I doubt a helicopter pilot would be that old.
or
The backstory involving Alec's parents is overly complicated to the point where fans are getting out their calculators to see if he would be the right age for such events.
or
Xenia goes to collect Bond and yet ends up driving him while being held at gunpoint. How did Janus let Bond get the upper hand here?
Why would Bond think that Z could set him up with Janus? Why would Janus agree to meet Bond? The spa scene has never made any sense to me. Go swimming and relax…a Janus representative will be with you shortly.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
"Better make that two."
There are definitely instances of "insert action here" but they seem more like pit-stops in the storytelling rather than the focus, which makes them more palatable.
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
I feel the same way about TWINE.
Okay, we are on exactly the same page then!
Also, great point about Z never being brought up again. I never really thought about that before, probably due to his expanded role in TWINE.
The unnatural flow of GE is bookended by the "Nine years later" in the beginning and the "Yo Marines" at the end. (Seriously, if they were there the whole time why didn't they help? It just makes the film that much more disjointed. And don't even get me started on that lame credits song….. X-( )
PS- One more thing about the helicopter pilot. The movie kind of implies that they flew straight to Severnaya, but that would mean the other pilot was Ourumov. So they obviously made a pitstop and the Admiral lookalike switched spots with Ourumov, but again this just contributes to the unnatural flow of the film.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
The parahawks scene in TWINE is an example of insert action here IMO, the parahawks are only attacking Bond/Elektra and not any actual assets. The others are all fine.
Don't get me started on the lookalike Admiral. The 'lookalike' is clearly the same actor who is supposed to be dead in the closet. But to your point, isn't the admiral lookalike only getting Ourumov and Xenia into the (Ourumov/Xenia) ceremony so they steal the Tiger?
"Better make that two."
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
Also, Bond did not follow up on this lead when he should have known the fake Admiral was likely still onboard the ship.
and
Does the story even require Z to set up a meeting? It makes more sense without it. Bond is relaxing at his hotel, Xenia comes to kill him, Bond defeats her and makes her take him to Janus. Pretty standard stuff really. No special meeting required.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
"Better make that two."
Can you say no to an Admiral?
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
Ironic that Bond went to such lengths to arrange a meeting with Janus when he practially saw Xenia everywhere he went.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
Fair enough. I'm looking forward to re-watching it with this in mind. So who were the two Janus pilots?
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
One of them is Xenia. According to Wikipedia's plot summary the other is Ourumuv.
It's an easy assumption to make that the other pilot is Ourumuv because he turns up with Xenia in the Tiger in Servenaya and it seems to be immediately after the theft. However, SniperUK's assertion that this wouldn't have been immediate has to be correct - Servenaya is 7000kms away from Monte Carlo - the range of the Tiger is 800kms equalling at least 9 stops.
"Better make that two."
Flight to Servenaya at max 200KPH would take 35hrs this does not take in refuelling / rest stops and the route would not be direct. I would think out to a ship in the Med, up through the Bosphorus into the black sea, then onwards from there. Certainly a direct flight would be over at least four countries all with air defence.
I find the more I watch the Bond films the main reason why I'm interested after all these viewings is watching the leading man and his personality shine. Brosnan's performance here (his fault or not) really lacks and I find that he doesn't really lead the film. There are a few good moments like the tank chase, "penalty for treason!?", "No, for me" etc., but the rest of the time, uninspiring.
Goldeneye has continued its slide in my rankings for a few years now
"Better make that two."
Brosnan seems so much more comfortable in his next three outings
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
I do think that Dalton would have been better at delivering the poor dialogue in GoldenEye. Brosnan was indeed much more comfortable in his subsequent films.
I agree with BL. Brozzer was fine, just a bit of a composite Bond, 30% Moore, 20 % Connery, 20% Dalton 30% his own man (we can argue/debate the %) A lot was riding on his narrow shoulders he literally grew into the role IMHO