Most/Least Sexist Bond Films
Absolutely_Cart
NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
I feel like discussing the sexism present in numerous of the Bond films, as well as the films that portray women fairly. This thread is going to go into each film and discuss where it handles things well and where it doesn't.
FAQ
Why are you doing this, Cart?
I'm a Bond fan. I want to praise the series and do my small part to help preserve it for generations. Part of this should, in my opinion, involve condemning the sexist elements (which is not the same as condemning the series as a whole).
Is James Bond fundamentally bad because it has sexist elements?
Nope. Lots of media, especially in the previous century, have sexist elements. Not just James Bond, even if Bond is marketed as a womanizing series. I think it's perfectly fine to praise the good while criticize the bad. I'm not here to bash the entire series. In fact, I want to promote films like OHMSS and Goldeneye for making positive steps.
Is it okay for Bond to be a misogynist?
Sure, as long as it's in a condemned context and not a glorified one.
Is Bond being promiscuous a bad thing?
No, as long as women characters are more than just conquests.
Are girls in bikinis a bad thing?
No, not in itself.Wearing a bikini on a beach is normal. Wearing a bikini to disarm a nuclear reactor is just pandering.
Do women characters need to be shielded from harm, and receive special treatment?
No. There's nothing wrong with women characters dying, being harmed or even being the bad guys. There's nothing wrong with a woman being badly portrayed because they're a bad person or in a bad situation. The problem is where women get treated badly by stereotype.
Is traditional femininity in Bond girls a bad thing?
No, not at all. I think encouraging diversity and people being who they want to be is a great thing. This leaves room for both, less-girly girls like Pam Bouvier and feminine (but still three-dimensional and well-written) characters like Vesper. I think the point is that the heroines in the series don't have to be a certain way. They just need to have a purpose other than being sex toys.
Dr. No
Slops: Honey Ryder starts the ditzy blonde bikini girl trend.
From Russia With Love
Props: Tatiana Romonova is a three-dimensional character
Slops: She is treated like **** (for being a woman) without objection.
Goldfinger
Slops: Pussy Galore. Began the dead mistress trope. ; "Mantalk".
Thunderball
Slops: Bond blackmails a physical therapist for sex. Seriously?
You Only Live Twice
Slops: None of the female characters have any depth to them. They're shamelessly made into sex objects and groupies.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Props: Tracy is an equal to Bond, an a unique character overall.
Slops: Grown women treated like malleable angelic 13 year old girls. Creepy.
Diamonds Are Forever
Slops: Tiffany Case is another bikini girl with little development
Live and Let Die
Slops: Solitaire's value and purpose is dependent on her virginity ; And the card-trick ; Rosie Carver is portrayed is a dumb bikini girl despite being a CIA agent.
Man with the Golden Gun
Slops: Another ditzy dumb blonde stereotype. And follows the dead mistress trope.
The Spy Who Loved Me
Props: XXX is all-around a good well-portrayed character. No complaints here.
Moonraker
Props: Goodhead (name aside) is intelligent - and not a standard bikini girl.
Slops: "Goodhead".
For Your Eyes Only
Slops: Ass-shot advertising poster.
Octopussy
Props: A "Bond-girl" that's near Moore's age ; Octopussy is powerful - not submissive
Slops: Octopussy's clan of women need to be in bikinis in order to kick ass?
A View to a Kill
Props: Bond treats Stacey well, overall.
Slops: Age gap between Bond and Stacey. Ditzy blonde stereotype.
The Living Daylights
Props: The film shows that Bond doesn't need to womanize or sexually objectify women (for the most part)
Slops: Tearing off a woman's shirt to distract a guard. Bond doesn't have a license to sexually assault.
License to Kill
Pros: Pam Bouvier doesn't conform to a girly-girl stereotype. She's tough as nails, like Bond.
Goldeneye
Props: M's introduction and dialog ; A change in character for Moneypenny ; Criticism toward Bond's misogyny overall.
Tomorrow Never Dies
Props: Wai Lin is a strong kick-ass companion.
Slops: Dead mistress trope, again.
The World Is Not Enough
Props: Elektra King is a prominent strong independent character.
Slops: Elektra King's backstory has to involve her submission toward men.
Die Another Day
Props: Jinx is a strong kick-ass companion.
Slops: It introduces Jinx on a Honey Ryder note.
Casino Royale
Props: Vesper's character establishes a femininity that isn't submissive to men ; Craig makes a Honey Ryder entrance
Slops: The dead mistress trope, again.
Quantum of Solace
Props: Camille triumphs over the men who abused her ; And she doesn't exist to just sex Bond at the end.
Slops: Strawberry Fields, compared to Camille, feels regressive of older films.
Skyfall
Props: Amazing performance by M
Slops: Bond sexually pursues a sex slave ; Moneypenny gets "promoted" to a secretary.
FAQ
Why are you doing this, Cart?
I'm a Bond fan. I want to praise the series and do my small part to help preserve it for generations. Part of this should, in my opinion, involve condemning the sexist elements (which is not the same as condemning the series as a whole).
Is James Bond fundamentally bad because it has sexist elements?
Nope. Lots of media, especially in the previous century, have sexist elements. Not just James Bond, even if Bond is marketed as a womanizing series. I think it's perfectly fine to praise the good while criticize the bad. I'm not here to bash the entire series. In fact, I want to promote films like OHMSS and Goldeneye for making positive steps.
Is it okay for Bond to be a misogynist?
Sure, as long as it's in a condemned context and not a glorified one.
Is Bond being promiscuous a bad thing?
No, as long as women characters are more than just conquests.
Are girls in bikinis a bad thing?
No, not in itself.Wearing a bikini on a beach is normal. Wearing a bikini to disarm a nuclear reactor is just pandering.
Do women characters need to be shielded from harm, and receive special treatment?
No. There's nothing wrong with women characters dying, being harmed or even being the bad guys. There's nothing wrong with a woman being badly portrayed because they're a bad person or in a bad situation. The problem is where women get treated badly by stereotype.
Is traditional femininity in Bond girls a bad thing?
No, not at all. I think encouraging diversity and people being who they want to be is a great thing. This leaves room for both, less-girly girls like Pam Bouvier and feminine (but still three-dimensional and well-written) characters like Vesper. I think the point is that the heroines in the series don't have to be a certain way. They just need to have a purpose other than being sex toys.
Dr. No
Slops: Honey Ryder starts the ditzy blonde bikini girl trend.
From Russia With Love
Props: Tatiana Romonova is a three-dimensional character
Slops: She is treated like **** (for being a woman) without objection.
Goldfinger
Slops: Pussy Galore. Began the dead mistress trope. ; "Mantalk".
Thunderball
Slops: Bond blackmails a physical therapist for sex. Seriously?
You Only Live Twice
Slops: None of the female characters have any depth to them. They're shamelessly made into sex objects and groupies.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Props: Tracy is an equal to Bond, an a unique character overall.
Slops: Grown women treated like malleable angelic 13 year old girls. Creepy.
Diamonds Are Forever
Slops: Tiffany Case is another bikini girl with little development
Live and Let Die
Slops: Solitaire's value and purpose is dependent on her virginity ; And the card-trick ; Rosie Carver is portrayed is a dumb bikini girl despite being a CIA agent.
Man with the Golden Gun
Slops: Another ditzy dumb blonde stereotype. And follows the dead mistress trope.
The Spy Who Loved Me
Props: XXX is all-around a good well-portrayed character. No complaints here.
Moonraker
Props: Goodhead (name aside) is intelligent - and not a standard bikini girl.
Slops: "Goodhead".
For Your Eyes Only
Slops: Ass-shot advertising poster.
Octopussy
Props: A "Bond-girl" that's near Moore's age ; Octopussy is powerful - not submissive
Slops: Octopussy's clan of women need to be in bikinis in order to kick ass?
A View to a Kill
Props: Bond treats Stacey well, overall.
Slops: Age gap between Bond and Stacey. Ditzy blonde stereotype.
The Living Daylights
Props: The film shows that Bond doesn't need to womanize or sexually objectify women (for the most part)
Slops: Tearing off a woman's shirt to distract a guard. Bond doesn't have a license to sexually assault.
License to Kill
Pros: Pam Bouvier doesn't conform to a girly-girl stereotype. She's tough as nails, like Bond.
Goldeneye
Props: M's introduction and dialog ; A change in character for Moneypenny ; Criticism toward Bond's misogyny overall.
Tomorrow Never Dies
Props: Wai Lin is a strong kick-ass companion.
Slops: Dead mistress trope, again.
The World Is Not Enough
Props: Elektra King is a prominent strong independent character.
Slops: Elektra King's backstory has to involve her submission toward men.
Die Another Day
Props: Jinx is a strong kick-ass companion.
Slops: It introduces Jinx on a Honey Ryder note.
Casino Royale
Props: Vesper's character establishes a femininity that isn't submissive to men ; Craig makes a Honey Ryder entrance
Slops: The dead mistress trope, again.
Quantum of Solace
Props: Camille triumphs over the men who abused her ; And she doesn't exist to just sex Bond at the end.
Slops: Strawberry Fields, compared to Camille, feels regressive of older films.
Skyfall
Props: Amazing performance by M
Slops: Bond sexually pursues a sex slave ; Moneypenny gets "promoted" to a secretary.
Comments
I'll not go deep again in another "ranking" (honestly, we should leave these rankings to the crappy tv shows - AJB should be better than this)
When and after Christatos tries to kill them with the boat, Bouquet and her stunt double are clearly seen wearing a bikini bottom.
You should only rank movies, which you have entirely seen
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I did entirely see FYEO. I just have the memory skills of a pothead.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Many people here have seen them ten times, fifty times or a hundred times.
And you don't want to discuss which movies got it right but you want to discuss the movies that have gotten it right or wrong?
Maybe this is shocking news for you - FYEO poster looked like this:
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I changed my FYEO tidbit to reflect the reality. Thanks. :x
Unsure what you meant with your "right or wrong" comments, but I definitely think OHMSS and Goldeneye should get some praise for moving toward a path of gender equality. (Unless there's an ass-shot promo for them that I don't know about)
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
In OHMSS, Bond shags 2 of the mentally ill patients in the clinic by mentioning "a book with balls" - not sure how that fits in your picture. The dinner on Piz Gloria would be then highly embarrasing if you are meaning all this seriously.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Maybe YOUR OWN reality, which has nothing to do with many other's reality X-(
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Make up your mind. First, FYEO is sexist because of the poster. And now, that's not the reality.
Btw, Dalton was the least sexist Bond. Dalton > all other Bonds.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
I could do that all day long but don't have the time
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
We are rating the bond movies here, eh?
I can send you over Ian Fleming novel covers pics from the 70s which fall all under the "sexist" category from today's point of view.
So do you want to thumb down all movies because of these?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
It's just plain silly to judge any old movie by today's standards in terms of feminism, pc'ness or visual effects.
And it's even more ridiculous to thumb down a movie for associate sales stuff.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
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Patricia Fearing isn't a nurse, she's a therapist.
None of the male characters have any depth to them either!
It's plot justified: they're distracting the guards, lulling them into thinking they're girls from the village, selling their bodies.
It doesn't. Elektra manipulates men to her own advantage (Bond, Renard, her father), she says so herself towards the end of the movie.
...which is exactly what her character was created to be.
Im only hanging around here from now on to see the Monica Bellucci pictures
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Except that the sexism still went on after the 60's films, and even carried into the more modern original scripts.
The character of Severine, for example, is basically a revival of it.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
as odd knowing she was part of the sex trade from a young age. Rather I
Think unlike others, Bond Made love to her as a person, not something he'd
Paid for. Then again I'm an old Romantic.
Or it could be a case of them both using each other for what they want ? In
That case they both equally sexist.
It's also for the fact that she's a character with sexist undercurrents baked into her very design. Her character development purely depends on men. She was a sex slave, then was abused by Raoul Silva, then she had sex with Bond and then she was murdered to fuel a male-driven plot.
And it's not just that her character has these elements. It's that she only consists of these elements and her narrative is purely defined by them.
It's definitely a step backward. Considering before her, we had Camille and Vesper. I wouldn't say she's any less of a sex-object than older "Bondgirls" from the 60's.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
the same grounds, Women have always used men ? So I don't see it as
Sexist but simply life.
No, the "Stockholm Syndrome" suggestion was misdirection which you've fallen for. M etc assume that's the situation (and Elektra encourages that belief) but it isn't. Elektra uses her sexuality to use men; she is not the one being used or submissive. Look at her sex scene with Renard- he's the one that gets damaged-and the chair scene with Bond, where the fact that she's getting aroused by his predicament isn't disguised. Her "villain speech" as she shows him her self-mutilated ear makes things plain.
I appreciate what you are trying to do here, AC, and I generally agree with your assessments. However, I disagree on a few points and omissions as follows:
Goldfinger
Slops: Pussy Galore. Began the dead mistress trope. - the name "Pussy Galore" is an obvious slop, but I give a little "props" because she handles herself well in her initial "combat" with Bond, at least for a little while.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Props: Tracy is an equal to Bond, an a unique character overall. - the way the clinic patients are portrayed and treated is an all-around "slop".
Live and Let Die
Slops: Solitaire's value and purpose is dependent on her virginity ; And the card-trick. - Rosie Carver, a CIA agent??? The way she's portrayed is one of the biggest "slops" of all!
The World Is Not Enough
Props: Elektra King is a prominent strong independent character.
Slops: Elektra King's backstory has to involve her submission toward men. - actually Elektra is the puppet master regarding the men in her life.
Best: Licence to Kill
True, unfortunately. Goldfinger, my favorite Bond, has one of the absolute worst examples - "Err..now run along. Man talk", followed by a condenscending pat on the bottom. Ugh!
Thanks Blackleiter.
Goldfinger - I can agree with that to an extent. And it's probably Connery's least sexist film overall.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Well noted. While I can't really prove that Bond did with them was rapey, the portrayal of grown adult women as angelic innocent malleable little delicate souls is disturbing.
Live and Let Die - I agree on that. In what sense particularly? Her prancing around in a bikini, her being killed off, or her portrayal being racist? I don't remember her character really well, so it would be good of you to clarify.
The World Is Not Enough - Elektra's need to be a puppet master stemmed from her original psychological stress as a victim. Basically, to compensate. Men treated me like ****, so let's treat men like ****. I don't think that's inherently bad at all. The problem with the film industry as we know it is that while male characters don't need women characters to have a functioning narrative arc, women characters need men characters to have one. I'll say that Elektra is better than most female characters in most movies, but if she were a man her story would be entirely different. I can't call TWINE bad in any sense, but it'll be seen as dated (like 90% of movies) in 50 years from now.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
My comment about Rosie Carver has to do with the fact that she is supposed to be a CIA agent, and yet she is portrayed as an incompetent, clueless, screeching bimbo. I don't feel there is anything racist about the portrayal, because I don't think her shortcomings are being linked to her race, at least not overtly. But it seems pretty clear to me that she meant to be a stereotypical bimbo. As for Elektra in TWINE, I agree with Barbel's comments about the "Stockholm Syndrome" being a subterfuge aimed at misleading our protagonists.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
The first is clearly sexist, Mad Man series type of sexism that simply reflects the times movies were made. That would go from 1962 until 1974.
In TSWLM, you have Anya Amasova as the first really strong, independent, professional Bond girl. From then on more or less all of them are like that. More 3D, independent girls, less in need of Bond rescuing them, more working with him. Dr. Goodhead, Melina Havelock, Octopussy,...even Stacey Sutton is a geologist with her own agenda...
That's what's great about Bond films, and why they're still current. They managed to evolve with the times in everything, so that they never feel passé.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS