I've done Google searches for "Tobacco Gold Medal" and "Cigarette Gold Medal" and can't find anything similar. There's very little about Morland anywhere and what is there is mainly just info about Bond/Fleming.
I've got a couple of messages from people who think they may have something more that can help. We'll see! :007)
That second one does sort of look kind of close. I've had two members here say that they were going to help get me a better image. We'll see where that leads. I'm searching for exhibition medals now!
No image to post, but I've been informed that at least one of the medals in at least one of the versions of the logo features the text "Modern Art" on one side and "Industry" on the other.
Okay, based on some additional information I've received from two different sources who had already researched this, I believe that the reproduction boxes used art based on the same side of a gold medal earned at the International Exhibition for Modern Arts and Industry in London - not Paris. Older, genuine boxes features the opposite side of the medal on the left side, instead of just repeating the image on the right.
Also, it would appear that the gold medals are apparently sort of "art deco" interpretations of the real ones. You can sort of make out even in the low resolution photos that the stuff inside the medals are simple line art drawings.
Yep. It's the gold medal from the 1913 London International Exhibition. The original logo on the boxes featured both sides of the medal. It looks like some of the later reproductions just duplicated one side. Not sure if that's on the ones that Morland actually produced, or just on the reproductions made after they went out of business.
Update: A collector has sent me a photo of an original Morland & Co. box. This is one pre-Fleming's death when the boxes weren't blue. The blue is what they switched to late 60's apparently. I believe they used different styles of boxes and the one I've been shown is a tan color with a plain black logo.
He's asked me not to post his photo publicly but that I could use it to help with the art I'm working on. The logo features the front and back of the 1913 Exhibition medal. Since the printing was essentially black and white line art, the coin art is VERY simple. Almost looks like a child did it. Sort of "art deco" as I've described before.
I'm almost done with what I think will be a decently accurate logo. Just need to figure out the box size and source them. I know how it can be done with white boxes if I can't find the right sized blue ones if I go the dark blue route.
Update: A collector has sent me a photo of an original Morland & Co. box. This is one pre-Fleming's death when the boxes weren't blue. The blue is what they switched to late 60's apparently. I believe they used different styles of boxes and the one I've been shown is a tan color with a plain black logo.
He's asked me not to post his photo publicly but that I could use it to help with the art I'm working on. The logo features the front and back of the 1913 Exhibition medal. Since the printing was essentially black and white line art, the coin art is VERY simple. Almost looks like a child did it. Sort of "art deco" as I've described before.
I'm almost done with what I think will be a decently accurate logo. Just need to figure out the box size and source them. I know how it can be done with white boxes if I can't find the right sized blue ones if I go the dark blue route.
Thomo: I will most likely be making some extra to recoup my costs. I will keep everyone posted.
Excellent stuff - would be great to have one that fits 'modern' cigarettes if you do decide as then it will be used which would be fantastic :-) doing a great job
Any box I use should fit modern cigarettes. Apparently the Morlands were "regular" size (2.75"). Many brands today are still this size, though "King" size (84mm) are much more popular and prevalent.
I've briefly looked into having the three ring cigarettes manufacturered but I think all the time, effort and expense may be overkill. Most want the box for display and would t need the cigarettes themselves.
Check with Henrik as he has made cigarettes for another project... plus his replica cigs won't smell funny or decay... but they were a LOT of work to create, apparently.
I may be remembering this wrong, but a few years ago I used to smoke Lambert and Butler menthol (gave up 5 years ago - best thing I ever did) and they had two or three gold rings. Any smokers here able to check? I can't find any images via Google.
A ready made cigarette that could be bought off the shelf would be VERY helpful. I did a few searches for cigarettes with gold rings and came up short.
Might be better to craft a non-organic insert with brown tobacco texture at both ends wrapped in paper that has the 3 gold rings. Maybe cast in plastic resin to make faster reproductions.
I can do the Gold rings as long as I can find convincing paper.
A ready made cigarette that could be bought off the shelf would be VERY helpful. I did a few searches for cigarettes with gold rings and came up short.
I think the 3 gold ring was a bit of trademark for them maybe, anyway I'll give you my 2c as a long time British coal burner.
For a start most modern cigarettes come with a filter you will need to pull out with some tweezers and replace with more tobacco (at least I can't think of any that would match). Even then, the paper may be different from where the filter was. They will also be more uniform in shape and have thinner paper.
Davidoff smooth and gold have 2 gold bands as do some Dunhills.
The George Karelias "Excellence" used to have a single gold band with 2 blue ones which is also a boutique cigarette.
It's probably more work than just getting the paper but there are also stange tubes you can fill with your own tobacco. A king size with the speckled filter cut off would be roughly the right size.
They tend to be crazy colours rather than plain white but I'm sure you could work some wizardry and stuff it with some tobacco from a premade (because rolling tobacco is usually too wet and it wouldn't give the right shape or colour at the end) .
Hope that helps a little
I'd say your best bet is still wrapping the banded paper around the filterless, if it's an extra mm each side I doubt you could tell -{
Wrapping would work probably, but there's a couple of things I'd be concerned with:
1. I'm going to make some extras for people who want these and I'm not sure what the laws are about sending tobacco through the mail.
2. Eventually tobacco stored in a closed box will break down due to it's organic nature, the oils in the tobacco, etc. I've seen old cigarettes become brittle and smell bad.
I'm beginning to think maybe "faux" cigarettes would be the solution for people who wanted something in the box. Find a foam rod the right diameter, cut it to length (a little short), glue a sprinkling of tobacco, or preferably a synthetic material made to look like tobacco, on the ends, then wrap them in paper.
I've got two projects I'm doing before this - one almost complete, the other about 80% complete. After those I'm going to get to work experimenting on how to do the cigarettes. The hard part of this project is sourcing the right size/shape boxes which I'm researching.
Faux cigarettes are a good idea. However, some tobacconist is missing a gold mine! Perhaps someone should contact one and commission three gold rings...
I'd like to use the box with modern cigarettes in it as it would look very cool on the side, but would need to big enough to hold King Size for modern cigarettes
Thomo: I'm looking into finding the right size box. I've got rough dimensions for the "Bond" boxes that are shown in this thread (after Fleming's death) and the sort of box they came in during the time Fleming likely bought them. The older boxes are longer than the newer ones.
It's possible that "king size" will fit as well - it will just depend on what I can come up with. You most likely could fit King Size cigarettes length-wise in the original-size box (about 6" X 3") if nothing else.
I'm very interested in the faux cigarettes, especially if they are of the Lazenby correct type.
Also looking for the OHMSS lighter and cig case.
Cant buy real cigs in CA anyway in some counties now...
Please PM me.
Cheers, Tom
Comments
I've got a couple of messages from people who think they may have something more that can help. We'll see! :007)
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
He's asked me not to post his photo publicly but that I could use it to help with the art I'm working on. The logo features the front and back of the 1913 Exhibition medal. Since the printing was essentially black and white line art, the coin art is VERY simple. Almost looks like a child did it. Sort of "art deco" as I've described before.
I'm almost done with what I think will be a decently accurate logo. Just need to figure out the box size and source them. I know how it can be done with white boxes if I can't find the right sized blue ones if I go the dark blue route.
Will you be selling any? Sounds a great project
Excellent stuff - would be great to have one that fits 'modern' cigarettes if you do decide as then it will be used which would be fantastic :-) doing a great job
I've briefly looked into having the three ring cigarettes manufacturered but I think all the time, effort and expense may be overkill. Most want the box for display and would t need the cigarettes themselves.
I can do the Gold rings as long as I can find convincing paper.
I think the 3 gold ring was a bit of trademark for them maybe, anyway I'll give you my 2c as a long time British coal burner.
For a start most modern cigarettes come with a filter you will need to pull out with some tweezers and replace with more tobacco (at least I can't think of any that would match). Even then, the paper may be different from where the filter was. They will also be more uniform in shape and have thinner paper.
Davidoff smooth and gold have 2 gold bands as do some Dunhills.
The George Karelias "Excellence" used to have a single gold band with 2 blue ones which is also a boutique cigarette.
It's probably more work than just getting the paper but there are also stange tubes you can fill with your own tobacco. A king size with the speckled filter cut off would be roughly the right size.
They tend to be crazy colours rather than plain white but I'm sure you could work some wizardry and stuff it with some tobacco from a premade (because rolling tobacco is usually too wet and it wouldn't give the right shape or colour at the end) .
Hope that helps a little
I'd say your best bet is still wrapping the banded paper around the filterless, if it's an extra mm each side I doubt you could tell -{
1. I'm going to make some extras for people who want these and I'm not sure what the laws are about sending tobacco through the mail.
2. Eventually tobacco stored in a closed box will break down due to it's organic nature, the oils in the tobacco, etc. I've seen old cigarettes become brittle and smell bad.
I'm beginning to think maybe "faux" cigarettes would be the solution for people who wanted something in the box. Find a foam rod the right diameter, cut it to length (a little short), glue a sprinkling of tobacco, or preferably a synthetic material made to look like tobacco, on the ends, then wrap them in paper.
I've got two projects I'm doing before this - one almost complete, the other about 80% complete. After those I'm going to get to work experimenting on how to do the cigarettes. The hard part of this project is sourcing the right size/shape boxes which I'm researching.
It's possible that "king size" will fit as well - it will just depend on what I can come up with. You most likely could fit King Size cigarettes length-wise in the original-size box (about 6" X 3") if nothing else.
Test print...
Photo crappy - taken in low light.
Also looking for the OHMSS lighter and cig case.
Cant buy real cigs in CA anyway in some counties now...
Please PM me.
Cheers, Tom
Yes!!!! Need this!!
Ed
the spyboys Facebook page
www.justgiving.com/inMemoryOfLewisCollins
www.helpforheroes.org.uk