Don't understand why Christmas Jones is so unpopular?
what't with T.Case and Severine for instance?
Dr. Jones is unpopular because she's just not believable. She just doesn't seem mature enough to be taken seriously as a nuclear physicist. Compare he to Dr. Goodhead, who is far more believable in a similar position.
Got it in one. The casting was up in the air...
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Loved TWINE. Would actually be my favourite Brosnan entry except I can't stand Christmas Jones. The character adds nothing and the acting is wooden.
Loved the pre titles sequence.
I agree...sort of...as it's still my fav Brosnan Bond despite her...
I'm the same. It's because Brosnan is the most comfortable in the role in this film. I don't really care for any of the Brosnan Bond girls. But while I don't find myself attracted to Elektra at all, I do like her as a character.
In the end I feel that for me, the pros SO outweigh the cons that I must say that on most viewings I have a great old time. And a note here: some folks have commented on the drab look of the film & I concur but, the Blu Ray makes if look sparkling next to the muddy DVD!
Loved TWINE. Would actually be my favourite Brosnan entry except I can't stand Christmas Jones. The character adds nothing and the acting is wooden.
Loved the pre titles sequence.
I agree...sort of...as it's still my fav Brosnan Bond despite her...
I'm the same. It's because Brosnan is the most comfortable in the role in this film. I don't really care for any of the Brosnan Bond girls. But while I don't find myself attracted to Elektra at all, I do like her as a character.
All true...I think Brosnan 'hits his marks' in this one...and the same for me with Elektra...she's attractive though, just not for me...
PROS:
Brosnan's best performance as 007.
Maria Grazia Cucinotta and Sophie Marceau.
Final Q scene is handled well.
Boat chase is fun.
CONS:
Wretched plot development and exposition.
Very vague and confusing story in first half.
Bland direction.
Most action sequences range from mediocre to poor, ski chase is especially disappointing.
Very dull cinematography and locations.
Robert Carlyle a totally ineffective villain.
Stunt-casting of John Cleese.
Submarine climax is a real damp squib.
Casting of Denise Richards deflects attention from the real problems of the film.
- Fantastic PTS with the Swiss banker and with the Q Boat. The Q Boat sequence showed that nobody could do action better than Bond
- A welcome return for Michael Kitchen's Tanner
- M and Bond's relationship. She trusts and respects Bond, but still asserts herself as Bond's boss
- Elektra is a strong female character and is very unique for the Bond series
- Great to see a ski scene again, and it's very well done
- Valentin's return is also welcome
- Bond's line "I don't know any doctor jokes."
- The helicopter saws are really, really cool!
- Renard has a fantastic death
- Best title song of Brosnan's films (Not counting the original Tomorrow Never Dies theme "Surrender")
- Bondian score by David Arnold that makes a great use of the Bond theme, the title theme and "I've Only Myself to Blame".
- Bond theme at the end is brilliant. I don't know if "I've Only Myself to Blame" was intended to be used there, but as much as I love that song it wouldn't fit.
- Great final performance for Desmond Llewelyn
- Michael Apted is great at getting a more human performance out of Brosnan.
- Brosnan seems most comfortable as Bond in this film
- Brosnan looks his best in this film, hair, body and clothes
- Thames and snowy mountains are great locations
- The Maiden's Tower is a great set
- Good plot with more depth than the films that came before and after
- The movie holds up really well today, the best of all of Brosnan's Bond films. It doesn't look dated at all, and it feels like it could have been an action movie made today.
Cons:
- Though Brosnan gave his best performance as Bond in this film, he's still wooden.
- Robinson is great, but his competes with Tanner.
- John Cleese, no matter how great he is, brings an unnecessary stupidity to the films.
- Why is Q showing Bond gadgets if he's off active duty due to his injury?
- Moneypenny is really annoying. I don't like that she seems to really dislike Bond.
- Renard doesn't need to have a bullet in his head. It's just ridiculous.
- Renard is too thug-like and isn't believable as someone who can command power. As thegreatgalling said above, he lacks gravitas. I don't have a problem with the character but with the performance and casting. The character doesn't command the respect he's given.
- The tone of the movie takes a dive as soon as we Denise Richards appears. She is far too immature and has some terrible lines. She's the biggest problem with the film. She should be Bond's equal, like Dr. Goodhead. She may be smart, but she acts like a teenager.
- Weak locations other than the two mentioned above
- The BMW Z8 is beautiful, but it should have been a DB7
- The action scenes with a lot of shooting feel like video games
- Bond and Dr. Jones getting together at the end is equivalent to Bond and Tracy in AVTAK. The age difference isn't so much the problem as the maturity difference. It's like Bond is sleeping with a teenager. Even if it was 32-year-old Sean Connery from Dr. No, 28-year-old Dr. Jones would seem too young.
Overall, I really, really loved the movie until Denise Richards appears. And watching it again after a long time it's still my favourite Brosnan Bond.
^ find myself agreeing with many of your points, including how the film does not look dated.
Pros:
- PTS
- Title song
- IMO the best GB and title credits of all the Bond films
- PB looks great, his suits
- Scottish location
- Denise Richards is absolutely stunning, dumb, unconvincing yes, but so, so, so hot :x
- Caviar Factory, pipeline and underground action sequences
- Storyline is the most psychological and complex of all Bond films
- Z8 is beautiful, missile gadget rocks
- Romance between Elektra and James - chemistry between the two actors. "Elektra look at me!" is a really believable scene between the two, her playing him or not, she really does seem scared.
- M/Bond relationship - acting between the two
- Q's fateful sign-off
- Submarine scenes are suspenseful and well done - and one (or two) particular Denise Richards features shine ;%
- Renard's death "She's waiting for you"
- Pierce's performance
- The torture scene and Valentine S saving Bond's life
- Bond killing Elektra, bit of a big deal! "I never miss" - Moore could've said that too
- Like GE, there are some really good lines in this film
- Some amazing work from David Arnold is peppered throughout the film. Particularly Show Me The Money, Come In 007..., Access Denied, Elektra's Theme and Christmas In Turkey
- Walther P99 finally being Bond's gun
- Bond's flirting with Xmas Jones and the final scene in Turkey
- Y2K joke actually works lol
- FYEO connection "Greek woman like Elektra always avenge their loved ones"
- "Foolish sentiment" "Family motto."
Cons:
- While good in the sub scenes, Renard seems a bit of an afterthought by the writers. I wish they used Robert C a bit better
- The plot set-up is slightly confusing, not well executed
- The blowing up of the pipeline is a 3 part explosion from a single bomb ?:)
- The Brosnan dummy when the car is being chopped in half
- David Arnold is not doing complete scores yet, although this is a major improvement on his messy TND score
- Casino scenes are a bit flat
- The ski-chase isn't 100% there - it doesn't build enough suspense.
Observations:
Unlike TND and DAD, this is similar to GE in the fact that it is a Bond film - not an action film with Bond elements. Also, it's muddy and locations are muted because IMO this dirtiness reflects the narrative.
Conclusion:
TWINE is my favourite because of its psychological elements. Pierce convinces the viewer that Bond is being affected by his loyalty to M, falling in love with Elektra and then realising the deception and who she really is and then figuring out how to play it back to win. It results in some pretty powerful scenes that if played poorly, would greatly affect how this film comes together. Pierce is entirely convincing.
To me, it's the deepest Bond film in terms of pace, plot, acting and texture.
-Great action scenes.
-Interesting plot.
-The story demands the viewer's undivided attention, as it unfolds step-by-step.
-Robert Carlyle does a good job as Renard.
-The return of Robbie Coltrane.
-While Denise Richards isn't a great actress, she manages to look both tough and attractive as a Bond girl.
-Q's last scene in the series, especially when seen in light of his death, has great impact.
-Brosnan gives a great performance as 007, and looks assured in the role.
Cons:
-Sophie Marceau's French accent. Electra King isn't a French name, or is it? And overall, she doesn't impress much as a villainess.
-Who killed the MI6 agent Bond mentioned in the PTS? I didn't quite catch that one.
Overall, I quite like TWINE, and give it a 9/10.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Don't understand why Christmas Jones is so unpopular?
what't with T.Case and Severine for instance?
Dr. Jones is unpopular because she's just not believable. She just doesn't seem mature enough to be taken seriously as a nuclear physicist.
I think she would be more believable if she didn't spend most of the movie dressed like Lara Croft, and the rest of it in a cocktail dress. Oh, and her obvious breast implants certainly don't help.
Nevertheless, I do like to have eye-candy in my Bond movies, and in that capacity she more than suffices.
I'm a big Brosnan fan, so that's something that helps this film for me.
I find all his first 3 movies to be fun action romps.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
TWINE does suffer from "insert action here" and it was something I was always concious of - it made me find the ski and underground scenes boring.
However, on recent viewings I've come to enjoy the caviar and underground scenes in particular. They're not perfect, but that's what makes them interesting - sometimes Bond's action scenes and escapes can be a little too perfect.
of course Denise Richards walked around in Lara Croft style - or do you consider an overall (more suitable?) sexy?
I'm not complaining really, I think Richards does a decent-enough job and is of course very hot in her tomb raider outfit. However, I do understand how this would make it difficult to take her seriously, especially with the boob job.
Personally, I find it more amusing than anything else, and am not bothered by it in the least. I'm better at suspending disbelief than most, and I'm also a fan of Richards from other movies like Wild Things and Starship Troopers. She may not be a great actress, but she isn't awful and is definitely nice to look at.
of course Denise Richards walked around in Lara Croft style - or do you consider an overall (more suitable?) sexy?
I'm not complaining really, I think Richards does a decent-enough job and is of course very hot in her tomb raider outfit. However, I do understand how this would make it difficult to take her seriously, especially with the boob job.
Personally, I find it more amusing than anything else, and am not bothered by it in the least. I'm better at suspending disbelief than most, and I'm also a fan of Richards from other movies like Wild Things and Starship Troopers. She may not be a great actress, but she isn't awful and is definitely nice to look at.
It's not the way she dresses that makes it hard for me to take seriously. It's the character's teenager-like personality and attitudes.
It's not the way she dresses that makes it hard for me to take seriously. It's the character's teenager-like personality and attitudes.
Eh, I think that’s more the way Richards plays it than how it’s written. The character is supposed to be “feisty” but with her limited acting abilities it can understandably come off as just plain childish.
It's not the way she dresses that makes it hard for me to take seriously. It's the character's teenager-like personality and attitudes.
Eh, I think that’s more the way Richards plays it than how it’s written. The character is supposed to be “feisty” but with her limited acting abilities it can understandably come off as just plain childish.
It's mostly her portrayal, but a lot of it are the things she says, like "I gotta get it back, or someone's gonna have my ass."
It's the character's teenager-like personality and attitudes.
I disagree. I'm using the absurdity of her character here to defend my argument - what teenager would be a nuclear physicist??
But seriously, I don't see any dialogue or demeanour references to demonstrate your point. If anything, Denise Richards just has limited ability to act in any way that makes her seem like a highly intelligent being. She's just there for eye candy.
If anything I think she delivers her lines fine -
"The world's greatest terrorist running around with six kilos of weapons-grade plutonium can't be good. I gotta get it back, or someone's gonna have my ass."
That scene where Bond kills Electra is powerful stuff, considering how he'd become attracted to her in the first half of the movie and he ended up having sex with her.
You can tell in his face when she taunted him telling him that he wouldn't be able to kill her (and that he'd miss her) that he felt tense, probably doubting if he'd be able to kill her.
Then, once she did the opposite of what Bond told her to do (call off Renard), Bond coldly and brutally shot her, putting a sense of duty above whatever he may have felt for Elektra.
It's arguably the most memorable scene of the Brosnan Era.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Comments
positions, Right now !
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Got it in one. The casting was up in the air...
I agree...sort of...as it's still my fav Brosnan Bond despite her...
I'm the same. It's because Brosnan is the most comfortable in the role in this film. I don't really care for any of the Brosnan Bond girls. But while I don't find myself attracted to Elektra at all, I do like her as a character.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
All true...I think Brosnan 'hits his marks' in this one...and the same for me with Elektra...she's attractive though, just not for me...
Brosnan's best performance as 007.
Maria Grazia Cucinotta and Sophie Marceau.
Final Q scene is handled well.
Boat chase is fun.
CONS:
Wretched plot development and exposition.
Very vague and confusing story in first half.
Bland direction.
Most action sequences range from mediocre to poor, ski chase is especially disappointing.
Very dull cinematography and locations.
Robert Carlyle a totally ineffective villain.
Stunt-casting of John Cleese.
Submarine climax is a real damp squib.
Casting of Denise Richards deflects attention from the real problems of the film.
- Fantastic PTS with the Swiss banker and with the Q Boat. The Q Boat sequence showed that nobody could do action better than Bond
- A welcome return for Michael Kitchen's Tanner
- M and Bond's relationship. She trusts and respects Bond, but still asserts herself as Bond's boss
- Elektra is a strong female character and is very unique for the Bond series
- Great to see a ski scene again, and it's very well done
- Valentin's return is also welcome
- Bond's line "I don't know any doctor jokes."
- The helicopter saws are really, really cool!
- Renard has a fantastic death
- Best title song of Brosnan's films (Not counting the original Tomorrow Never Dies theme "Surrender")
- Bondian score by David Arnold that makes a great use of the Bond theme, the title theme and "I've Only Myself to Blame".
- Bond theme at the end is brilliant. I don't know if "I've Only Myself to Blame" was intended to be used there, but as much as I love that song it wouldn't fit.
- Great final performance for Desmond Llewelyn
- Michael Apted is great at getting a more human performance out of Brosnan.
- Brosnan seems most comfortable as Bond in this film
- Brosnan looks his best in this film, hair, body and clothes
- Thames and snowy mountains are great locations
- The Maiden's Tower is a great set
- Good plot with more depth than the films that came before and after
- The movie holds up really well today, the best of all of Brosnan's Bond films. It doesn't look dated at all, and it feels like it could have been an action movie made today.
Cons:
- Though Brosnan gave his best performance as Bond in this film, he's still wooden.
- Robinson is great, but his competes with Tanner.
- John Cleese, no matter how great he is, brings an unnecessary stupidity to the films.
- Why is Q showing Bond gadgets if he's off active duty due to his injury?
- Moneypenny is really annoying. I don't like that she seems to really dislike Bond.
- Renard doesn't need to have a bullet in his head. It's just ridiculous.
- Renard is too thug-like and isn't believable as someone who can command power. As thegreatgalling said above, he lacks gravitas. I don't have a problem with the character but with the performance and casting. The character doesn't command the respect he's given.
- The tone of the movie takes a dive as soon as we Denise Richards appears. She is far too immature and has some terrible lines. She's the biggest problem with the film. She should be Bond's equal, like Dr. Goodhead. She may be smart, but she acts like a teenager.
- Weak locations other than the two mentioned above
- The BMW Z8 is beautiful, but it should have been a DB7
- The action scenes with a lot of shooting feel like video games
- Bond and Dr. Jones getting together at the end is equivalent to Bond and Tracy in AVTAK. The age difference isn't so much the problem as the maturity difference. It's like Bond is sleeping with a teenager. Even if it was 32-year-old Sean Connery from Dr. No, 28-year-old Dr. Jones would seem too young.
Overall, I really, really loved the movie until Denise Richards appears. And watching it again after a long time it's still my favourite Brosnan Bond.
Pros:
- PTS
- Title song
- IMO the best GB and title credits of all the Bond films
- PB looks great, his suits
- Scottish location
- Denise Richards is absolutely stunning, dumb, unconvincing yes, but so, so, so hot :x
- Caviar Factory, pipeline and underground action sequences
- Storyline is the most psychological and complex of all Bond films
- Z8 is beautiful, missile gadget rocks
- Romance between Elektra and James - chemistry between the two actors. "Elektra look at me!" is a really believable scene between the two, her playing him or not, she really does seem scared.
- M/Bond relationship - acting between the two
- Q's fateful sign-off
- Submarine scenes are suspenseful and well done - and one (or two) particular Denise Richards features shine ;%
- Renard's death "She's waiting for you"
- Pierce's performance
- The torture scene and Valentine S saving Bond's life
- Bond killing Elektra, bit of a big deal!
- Like GE, there are some really good lines in this film
- Some amazing work from David Arnold is peppered throughout the film. Particularly Show Me The Money, Come In 007..., Access Denied, Elektra's Theme and Christmas In Turkey
- Walther P99 finally being Bond's gun
- Bond's flirting with Xmas Jones and the final scene in Turkey
- Y2K joke actually works lol
- FYEO connection "Greek woman like Elektra always avenge their loved ones"
- "Foolish sentiment" "Family motto."
Cons:
- While good in the sub scenes, Renard seems a bit of an afterthought by the writers. I wish they used Robert C a bit better
- The plot set-up is slightly confusing, not well executed
- The blowing up of the pipeline is a 3 part explosion from a single bomb ?:)
- The Brosnan dummy when the car is being chopped in half
- David Arnold is not doing complete scores yet, although this is a major improvement on his messy TND score
- Casino scenes are a bit flat
- The ski-chase isn't 100% there - it doesn't build enough suspense.
Observations:
Unlike TND and DAD, this is similar to GE in the fact that it is a Bond film - not an action film with Bond elements. Also, it's muddy and locations are muted because IMO this dirtiness reflects the narrative.
Conclusion:
TWINE is my favourite because of its psychological elements. Pierce convinces the viewer that Bond is being affected by his loyalty to M, falling in love with Elektra and then realising the deception and who she really is and then figuring out how to play it back to win. It results in some pretty powerful scenes that if played poorly, would greatly affect how this film comes together. Pierce is entirely convincing.
To me, it's the deepest Bond film in terms of pace, plot, acting and texture.
Bravo.
"Better make that two."
-Great action scenes.
-Interesting plot.
-The story demands the viewer's undivided attention, as it unfolds step-by-step.
-Robert Carlyle does a good job as Renard.
-The return of Robbie Coltrane.
-While Denise Richards isn't a great actress, she manages to look both tough and attractive as a Bond girl.
-Q's last scene in the series, especially when seen in light of his death, has great impact.
-Brosnan gives a great performance as 007, and looks assured in the role.
Cons:
-Sophie Marceau's French accent. Electra King isn't a French name, or is it? And overall, she doesn't impress much as a villainess.
-Who killed the MI6 agent Bond mentioned in the PTS? I didn't quite catch that one.
Overall, I quite like TWINE, and give it a 9/10.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Nevertheless, I do like to have eye-candy in my Bond movies, and in that capacity she more than suffices.
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
I'm a big Brosnan fan, so that's something that helps this film for me.
I find all his first 3 movies to be fun action romps.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Point the camera at Pierce and let off the explosives when he passes...
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
However, on recent viewings I've come to enjoy the caviar and underground scenes in particular. They're not perfect, but that's what makes them interesting - sometimes Bond's action scenes and escapes can be a little too perfect.
"Better make that two."
Personally, I find it more amusing than anything else, and am not bothered by it in the least. I'm better at suspending disbelief than most, and I'm also a fan of Richards from other movies like Wild Things and Starship Troopers. She may not be a great actress, but she isn't awful and is definitely nice to look at.
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
It's not the way she dresses that makes it hard for me to take seriously. It's the character's teenager-like personality and attitudes.
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
It's mostly her portrayal, but a lot of it are the things she says, like "I gotta get it back, or someone's gonna have my ass."
I disagree. I'm using the absurdity of her character here to defend my argument - what teenager would be a nuclear physicist??
But seriously, I don't see any dialogue or demeanour references to demonstrate your point. If anything, Denise Richards just has limited ability to act in any way that makes her seem like a highly intelligent being. She's just there for eye candy.
If anything I think she delivers her lines fine -
"The world's greatest terrorist running around with six kilos of weapons-grade plutonium can't be good. I gotta get it back, or someone's gonna have my ass."
"First things first."
"Better make that two."
Halle Berry is another story....
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Agreed!! Jinx deserves far more abuse. But then again, it's DAD, so naturally...
"Better make that two."
You can tell in his face when she taunted him telling him that he wouldn't be able to kill her (and that he'd miss her) that he felt tense, probably doubting if he'd be able to kill her.
Then, once she did the opposite of what Bond told her to do (call off Renard), Bond coldly and brutally shot her, putting a sense of duty above whatever he may have felt for Elektra.
It's arguably the most memorable scene of the Brosnan Era.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Yes!
"Better make that two."