Pros and Cons: Die Another Day

thegreatgalling

Thunderpussy wrote:

Bloody hell, that's like watching a Saw movie. )
" When his helmet was sucked off !". That's the way I want to go !

I'm always will to be taught new stuff, I have that printed on my business cards
That I leave in phone boxes . )

Interesting videos -{

{[] I think we can agree then that Gustav Graves became Gustav Gravy.

broadshoulder

Thunderpussy wrote:

B
I'm always will to be taught new stuff, I have that printed on my business cards
That I leave in phone boxes . )

-{

) ) ) )

Virgil37

chrisisall wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

I've gone through my reasons for considering TND the all time low of the franchise. Others feel that way in this forum, so I'm not the only one.

Really? Can you name one? I mean, someone who feels TND is 'the all time low'? I can't recall seeing it dead last on anyone's list but yours... I could be wrong...

with your "chinese girls" and "personal prejudice" comments you are clearly crossing a red line

A 'red' line? Is that Commie reference? Are you saying I should move to Russia? X-(

) Okay, seriously, by 'personal prejudice' I mean something in your past that affects your judgement of the film- like for ME, I was severely traumatized by Bambi as a child, and consequently when a beloved or main character dies in a movie, my first reaction is 'this movie sucks'. When Matrix Revolutions came out I flat out stated that it was THE worst movie ever made. )
Now I can say it's a well made flick that I just can't enjoy.
For years I couldn't watch YOLT because of Aki's death!
That's what I mean.

Seriously Chrisisall, do not play games by using "chinese girls" and "personal prejudice" in the same sentence. It sounds much worse than you intended.

I've said it many times, I'll say it again. TND is a disjointed film. Action sequences put together. It's quite noticeable that the script was not properly developed. No "personal prejudice" whatsoever, no freudian theories, no child traumas, no racial bias... I tried watching the film many times, and always think the same. Just a very bad film. Period. DAD, the topic of this thread, is a much better film.

Just accept the fact that we all have a favourite and a least favourite film. It so happens that TND is my least favourite, and your third favourite, which I respect without getting into weird theories (like you must be blind or something).

No hard feelings right? {[]

Thunderpussy

I'm happy you boys have kissed and made-up. {[]

chrisisall

Virgil37 wrote:

No hard feelings right? {[]

'Hard feelings'? Is that a sexual reference? Are you saying something about my manhood? X-(

Ha ha, no man, we're cool. I'm known for extensive deceased equestrian pulverizing...

Thunderpussy

Chrisisall wrote :
" I'm known for extensive deceased equestrian pulverizing "

) ) )

Virgil37

Chrisisall and I only argue about TND. But when we do, it's tough...

Thunderpussy

I think a couple of thongs and a mud pit, might make it more
Of a spectacle, for the rest of us ! )

chrisisall

As long as we can all at least agree that Dalton was a great Bond, all is well.

AND, on topic: NO BOND EVER was more about the lasers than DAD. -{

Blackleiter

The Red Kind wrote:

Blackleiter wrote:

Pros

The first part of the movie up until Bond leaves Cuba.

Cons

The rest of the movie!

And I must comment separately on Jinx (Halle Berry), as I see that some commentators consider her as an asset, while others view her as one of the film's worst elements:

Pros

Seeing Berry on screen. She is top of the line when it comes to the gorgeousness of Bond Girls.

Cons

Just about every time Berry opens her mouth. She has absolutely some of the worst lines and worst line readings in the entire series.

+1 Agree with everything you say BL.

It's good to know I'm making sense to someone! ) -{

Blackleiter

Thunderpussy wrote:

Last night it was Blackleiter and myself !

You call that an argument, TP? These others lads laugh at us old codgers struggling to find something about which we disagree! )

Thunderpussy

We have to be careful, with your pacemaker and my blood pressure ! )

Blackleiter

Thunderpussy wrote:

We have to be careful, with your pacemaker and my blood pressure ! )

So true, my friend! ) ) )

Absolutely_Cart

chrisisall wrote:

AND, on topic: NO BOND EVER was more about the lasers than DAD. -{

Absolutely.

Eon knew lasers were a popular trope in fiction and that they were a motif in some of the other James Bond movies. So, they just went nuts with it.

AlphaOmegaSin

Laser to the Nuts? No thanks

broadshoulder

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

. So, they just went nuts with it.

That was the big big problem with dad. Subtely is an alien word

AlphaOmegaSin

It was the 40th Anniversary of the Franchise, and I think EON wanted to make it a Birthday Bash.

Absolutely_Cart

Yeah, I agree Omega. They wanted to make it big. Bigger didn't necessarily mean better. The movie lacked a clear sense of direction, but it was really fun. I think that since there's several movies in the series that both lack a sense of direction and aren't fun, Die Another Day avoids my bottom 5. I'd call it underrated for sure.

I'll put it this way:

TND = great action + bad story + dull drab atmosphere + maudlin
DAD = great action + passable story + colorful atmosphere + fun

Barbel

I'd dispute that DAD had a bad story (all the ingredients are there, some from the MR novel). The way it was directed, that's a different matter.

Absolutely_Cart

I said TND and DAD had bad stories to simplify my point, but truth be told, DAD's story was passable - not bad. It was original, for sure. A palace of ice, North Korea, DNA cloning. That's quite an imagination.

What was wrong with the direction? You mean CGI (understandable) or just the pacing of the scenes>

chrisisall

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

What was wrong with the direction?

A severe OTT attitude. Taken down just a few notches and DAD would have been a solid entry IMO.

Absolutely_Cart

I don't necessarily agree. It's a ridiculous movie at its very core. I think a pretense of reality would've achieved the opposite effect.

broadshoulder

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

What was wrong with the direction?

) ) )

Directed by an incompetent.Never had I been so embarassed when watching a movie.

There are a couple of scenes in Cuba which pass muster - but the rest is shot to hell..

AlphaOmegaSin

The CGI Wind Surfing Scene always gets a Laugh from me )

chrisisall

broadshoulder wrote:

Directed by an incompetent.

LOL, yeah, that's easy to say... he's actually a quite capable director. His choice to make DAD an OTT cartoon was the problem, not his skills or lack thereof.

broadshoulder

To be honest I've gone on about DAD too long.

But his vision of what the film was about and what Bond was about was all wrong

chrisisall

broadshoulder wrote:

But his vision of what the film was about and what Bond was about was all wrong

I agree with the first part totally, but he seemed to leave Bond alone. Brosnan gave his best performance in a sea of nonsense.

broadshoulder

chrisisall wrote:

broadshoulder wrote:

But his vision of what the film was about and what Bond was about was all wrong

I agree with the first part totally, but he seemed to leave Bond alone. Brosnan gave his best performance in a sea of nonsense.

You know that James bond was a codename according to tamahori

Barbel

chrisisall wrote:

Brosnan gave his best performance.

Kudos, chrisisall. Something that's often forgotten on the endless DAD-bashing bandwagon. There are many things that can be nitpicked about that (or indeed any other) film, but Brosnan's performance isn't one of them (although IMHO his best Bond performance was one film earlier).

chrisisall

Barbel wrote:

(although IMHO his best Bond performance was one film earlier).

Personally, I thought he did a great job on all his last three, and a really good one on his first.