TB always seemed to me to feel like it had the least amount of Fleming's touch to it. Even before I really knew about McClory and Whittingham's input, I thought, why is this a Bond film? DN and FRWL, though adapted and changed for the screen, seemed more personal and exotic and needed Bond to work. TB always seemed like a generic action film that Bond just happens to be in. After I found out about how the whole story came to be, it made sense. These three were trying to come up with a big film as opposed to a Fleming novel with Bond at the center and that's what ended up being made.
GF's huge success had a large influence on how TB was done. Keep adding on the gadgets, make sure there is a strong female villain, have a woman sacrificed, put in more quips, make sure Bond gets equipped by Q in a funny scene, etc..
When Fleming adapted the screenplay for his novel, he brought his touch more to the story and made it more atmospheric and grisly, but the huge scope of the plot (just as in GF) minimized Bond's place in the story. Where as spectacle and global scaled threats work great on a big screen, they also reduce Bond to an action figure as part of a much larger mission. It's fun to watch as an action film and Connery does help maintain focus on Bond because of his sheer presence, but Fleming's actual character seems to be just a shadow to me in these big films.
-- Relaxed Connery, still in great shape, and really settled into the role. Panther walk, flinty sense of humor, displaying the full range of emotions, able to handle the increasing fantasy and silliness. This is the last time he seems to genuinely be having fun.
-- Two of most beautiful women to ever grace a Bond movie -- Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi, the latter of which deliciously wants to spill out of her dress frequently.
-- Auger is so much the epitome of 1960s style; Paluzzi is essentially a female Bond, and she seems a real threat to Bond.
-- Excellent, expensive production design. The film looks and feels stylish and "big," and it's one of the last Bond films where the locations really feel like a character themselves.
-- Junkanoo scene is so good, it's essentially redone in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
-- Lots of great night scenes. Too often, especially in recent Bond films, the night scenes lack genuine atmosphere.
-- A genuine sense of kink -- cross-dressing, casual sex in public spaces -- and menace -- the dispatching of various SPECTRE failures, the cold assassination of Derval and his replacement -- that makes the Bond films seem adult while still being a fantasy.
-- Great score by John Barry.
-- Lovely credits animation sihlouettes.
-- Some fine miniature work -- Goldeneye 30 years later wouldn't look as good.
-- Great clothes and cars.
-- Adolpho Celli really looks and acts the part -- he could have been given a little more to do, but he exudes true menace.
-- The jokes don't quite yet eclipse the characters -- "Yes, no well-dressed man should be without one"; "Fly here often?"; "Since you're here, do you mind giving me something to put on?"; "Where's the kickstarter?" Even "I think he got the point" doesn't elicit the same groans it might a few years later, when the jokes became increasingly stale and predictable.
-- The scope for the Bond films keep getting bigger and bigger.
-- SPECTRE seems like a genuine large, multinational organization.
-- Great end scene with the skyhook and in spite of questionable rear projection.
Cons:
-- Tedious underwater fights and Keystone cops sped up boat fight.
-- Relatively minor continuity gaffes, but quite a few of them.
-- Poor rear projection, even for a Bond film. (To see how to use rear projection properly, watch a Hitchcock film of the era.)
-- Count Lippe is eliminated humorously but too soon -- Guy Doleman is largely wasted.
-- Blofeld makes an appearance but seems less a presence than in earlier films.
-- Relaxed Connery, still in great shape, and really settled into the role. Panther walk, flinty sense of humor, displaying the full range of emotions, able to handle the increasing fantasy and silliness. This is the last time he seems to genuinely be having fun.
-- Two of most beautiful women to ever grace a Bond movie -- Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi, the latter of which deliciously wants to spill out of her dress frequently.
-- Auger is so much the epitome of 1960s style; Paluzzi is essentially a female Bond, and she seems a real threat to Bond.
-- Excellent, expensive production design. The film looks and feels stylish and "big," and it's one of the last Bond films where the locations really feel like a character themselves.
-- Junkanoo scene is so good, it's essentially redone in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
-- Lots of great night scenes. Too often, especially in recent Bond films, the night scenes lack genuine atmosphere.
-- A genuine sense of kink -- cross-dressing, casual sex in public spaces -- and menace -- the dispatching of various SPECTRE failures, the cold assassination of Derval and his replacement -- that makes the Bond films seem adult while still being a fantasy.
-- Great score by John Barry.
-- Lovely credits animation sihlouettes.
-- Some fine miniature work -- Goldeneye 30 years later wouldn't look as good.
-- Great clothes and cars.
-- Adolpho Celli really looks and acts the part -- he could have been given a little more to do, but he exudes true menace.
-- The jokes don't quite yet eclipse the characters -- "Yes, no well-dressed man should be without one"; "Fly here often?"; "Since you're here, do you mind giving me something to put on?"; "Where's the kickstarter?" Even "I think he got the point" doesn't elicit the same groans it might a few years later, when the jokes became increasingly stale and predictable.
-- The scope for the Bond films keep getting bigger and bigger.
-- SPECTRE seems like a genuine large, multinational organization.
-- Great end scene with the skyhook and in spite of questionable rear projection.
Cons:
-- Tedious underwater fights and Keystone cops sped up boat fight.
-- Relatively minor continuity gaffes, but quite a few of them.
-- Poor rear projection, even for a Bond film. (To see how to use rear projection properly, watch a Hitchcock film of the era.)
-- Count Lippe is eliminated humorously but too soon -- Guy Doleman is largely wasted.
-- Blofeld makes an appearance but seems less a presence than in earlier films.
You're a good man, Willard Whyte. By the way, I met Jimmy Dean briefly in Colonial Williamsburg but never got the opportunity to tell him how much I enjoyed his performance in Diamonds are Forever.
You're a good man, Willard Whyte. By the way, I met Jimmy Dean briefly in Colonial Williamsburg but never got the opportunity to tell him how much I enjoyed his performance in Diamonds are Forever.
Made at the height of Bondmania, TB could not have been more successful from a financial point of view and the marketing of Bond-related items reached a peak.
Artistically, it can easily be argued that there are flaws in the film (continuity, editing, etc) and that the character of Bond himself began to take a back seat to the spectacle and gadgets- though the seeds had been sown in GF- plus, of course, that the numerous underwater sequences crucial to the plot made the film slower than ideal.
To which I respond- yeah, fair enough. There ARE flaws in the continuity (Felix's trousers for example), the editing (exactly how fast is the Disco Volante supposed to be travelling at the end?), and the underwater scenes could be seen as slowing the pace.
However, this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. It's one of the several Bond films which were designed to be seen on the big screen (eg YOLT, TSWLM) and can't be fully appreciated at home. The photography is beautiful and sometimes jaw-dropping. The various leading ladies are stunning (my pick would be Fiona, but Domino, Patricia and Paula are all superb), and Adolfo Celi is a colourful villain. Granted, he does not beat Gert Frobe's Goldfinger (though I don't think that was the intention) but there are few who do.
John Barry tops his excellent work on GF with one of his best scores, deliberately going OTT with the title song (deliciously used instrumentally during the film) as well as the superlative "Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and making possibly his best use of "007" during the Junkanoo and the underwater battle.
Bernard Lee, Lois Maxwell, and of course Desmond Llewelyn were never better. I love Bond and Q's patter here.
Above all, Sean Connery dominates the proceedings with his totally confident yet relaxed performance as 007. He and Terence Young both know exactly what they are doing here. Have you ever noticed how much of TB consists of simply Connery walking across a room? Young and Connery have nailed this easily overlooked point which tells the audience so much about Bond's character without words and hasn't been topped since (the closest is Gilbert and Moore). Here, they are quite literally following in the footsteps of John Huston and Humphrey Bogart (who did the same thing with "The Maltese Falcon").
So, I have to say that I love TB. It may not be the best Bond film (IMHO there's no such thing) but it's at or near the top.
Great writeup of Thunderball, Barbel. In a way, Thunderball became more about the adventure than the charm of the character (unlike Goldfinger). Goldfinger had a lot more close-up scenes of Connery, I remember. TB was trying to be an epic in a similar sense that TSWLM was. Connery's Bond here still has his charm, even if the nature of this film sought to subdue it.
There's a lot to say about Thunderball. It defenitely has a lot of pros and cons, but long story short. I think its defenitely 'lower half- top 10 worthy.
Pros:
- Fiona Volpe is one of the best additions
- Hottest line up of Bond girls ever
- Connery has some hilarious lines in this movie, gotta love the guy.
- The way the plot seemed of world importance, with all the 007's
Cons:
- So much underwater scenes it's gets jarring
- suffers from slow pacing in parts
- the STUPID and rediciously sped up rear projection in the Disco Volante, one of the worst thing about this one!
And short story long: I personally shared all my thoughts on Thunderball in great detail in this video: (For those who care )
Pros:
Last time Connery gave a damn about Bond.
John Barry score.
Beautiful Carribbean locations.
Cons:
Vague, lumbering, unfocused plot.
Underwater sequences outstay their welcome very quickly.
Some general technical shoddiness not seen in the series prior to this film
I just watched this yesterday. Didn't enjoy it as much as anticipated. The good bits were as I remembered
Pros:
- THE SCRIPT! "sharp little eyes", "licensed trouble shooter", "burn you up on the road", "she's just dead", "know a little about women", etc etc etc. One of the funniest. Good and not ridiculous funny like DAF.
- The characters - Volpe, Largo, Domino mainly
- PTS fight
- Plot is standard and too parodied these days but I like it
- The score (trumpets get irritating sometimes but KKBB and TB themes are fantastic)
Cons
- Weird edits sometimes, frames skipping
- Narrative conveniences/inconsistencies. Punching Felix then Bond says "007" right afterwards. Conveniently hitching a lift from Volpe. Several more examples which don't distract (can't even remember them now) but it marks the beginning of the ridiculousness
- Sound like a sheep but it's sllloooowww, film could be an hour shorter.
- The end Disco Volante fast footage is poor but it doesn't bother me much
It's a good film but my main issue is not the slow scenes - rather, there's no major Bond moments in between to look forward to. There's some enjoyable scenes and dialogue but no standout croc jump, barrel roll, skydive, car chase, etc that are present in many entries, including lower quality ones. So it will be interesting to see where TB ends up ranking
Most of the cons fall right at the feet of the director and screenwriters. As far as the editing - the editor only does want the director wants so I put all editing decisions back on the director. By the time they made this film it had gone through a lot of changes and the director was forced to make it has coherent as he could given the size of the production, but I think the whole thing sort of overwhelmed him and for the most part he just to decided to have as much fun as he could making it, and when you let that take over your mind set as a director you end up not caring so much for the integrity of the character or the script. At the point in time this film came out he was almost guaranteed it would make big box office, so although I'm sure he still worked it as a seasoned professional director, it's obvious on repeated viewings that the whole film wasn't taken as seriously as the first two he directed. A lot of that attitude had to do with GF. EON made film history with that entry and cemented the Bond formula, so Young did only had to follow the chalk line put down by Guy Hamilton.
Most of the cons fall right at the feet of the director and screenwriters. As far as the editing - the editor only does want the director wants so I put all editing decisions back on the director. By the time they made this film it had gone through a lot of changes and the director was forced to make it has coherent as he could given the size of the production, but I think the whole thing sort of overwhelmed him and for the most part he just to decided to have as much fun as he could making it, and when you let that take over your mind set as a director you end up not caring so much for the integrity of the character or the script. At the point in time this film came out he was almost guaranteed it would make big box office, so although I'm sure he still worked it as a seasoned professional director, it's obvious on repeated viewings that the whole film wasn't taken as seriously as the first two he directed. A lot of that attitude had to do with GF. EON made film history with that entry and cemented the Bond formula, so Young did only had to follow the chalk line put down by Guy Hamilton.
Actually directors rarely have much influence once a film has wrapped. The editor spends weeks sifting through hours of footage finally compiling a rough cut for the producers. Famously, the first cut of YOLT was over 4 hours long and OHMSS was approaching 4 hours.
It is unfortunate that Peter Hunt was not available due to his working on The Ipcress File otherwise we would have a much tighter cut for TBl.
Having said that I still think TB is a top Bond film I will add my pros and cons at a later date to each of the threads as it's been some time since I have seen them.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Thunderball is Epic, it must have been like filming one of those big
WW2 movies. With so many underwater scenes with so many stunt
Actors etc. Visually it still looks amazing. -{ and combined with the
Fantastic music score of John Barry. {[] Magical.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Thunderball is Epic, it must have been like filming one of those big
WW2 movies. With so many underwater scenes with so many stunt
Actors etc. Visually it still looks amazing. -{ and combined with the
Fantastic music score of John Barry. {[] Magical.
It was the last of the ultracool 60's Bonds IMO. It was big, but not TOO big for Bond. YOLT's production was the star, not Bond. And of course why Connery left.
The opening sequence of "Thunderball" was the best fight scene. It surprised all that "Mrs. Boitier" was the colonel and the fight was great. I believe that Colonel Jacques Boitier should be reinvented in the new series.
Most of the cons fall right at the feet of the director and screenwriters. As far as the editing - the editor only does want the director wants so I put all editing decisions back on the director. By the time they made this film it had gone through a lot of changes and the director was forced to make it has coherent as he could given the size of the production, but I think the whole thing sort of overwhelmed him and for the most part he just to decided to have as much fun as he could making it, and when you let that take over your mind set as a director you end up not caring so much for the integrity of the character or the script. At the point in time this film came out he was almost guaranteed it would make big box office, so although I'm sure he still worked it as a seasoned professional director, it's obvious on repeated viewings that the whole film wasn't taken as seriously as the first two he directed. A lot of that attitude had to do with GF. EON made film history with that entry and cemented the Bond formula, so Young did only had to follow the chalk line put down by Guy Hamilton.
Actually directors rarely have much influence once a film has wrapped. The editor spends weeks sifting through hours of footage finally compiling a rough cut for the producers. Famously, the first cut of YOLT was over 4 hours long and OHMSS was approaching 4 hours.
It is unfortunate that Peter Hunt was not available due to his working on The Ipcress File otherwise we would have a much tighter cut for TBl.
Having said that I still think TB is a top Bond film I will add my pros and cons at a later date to each of the threads as it's been some time since I have seen them.
The director's influence on how the film appears on release depends on whether they have the final cut in their contract. This was unusual for director's like Young to have since studios like UA and EON did not like the practice. Usually only auteur directors who often also produced their films have this power - Spieberg and Lucas are examples of this.
The rough cut is not assembled for the producers - it is the first pass (assembly edit) of what the final film will be when it reaches picture lock. This is the point where the director is responsible for creating the "director's cut" - the time that is set aside where the film editor's first cut from the rough cut is molded to fit the director's vision. While collaborating on this stage of the editing, the director and the editor go over the entire movie in great detail; scenes and shots are re-ordered, removed, shortened and otherwise tweaked to obtain the director's vision.
In the final cut stage, sometimes subsequent edits are supervised by one or more producers, who represent the production company and/or movie studio. In normal cases, these are usually quite minor tweaks dealing with such things as maintaining the rating of the film (overseeing the violence and sex and pc situations) so it keeps in line with how they want the film to appear to conform to the corporate image of the people financing the project.
It is rare for producers at this stage to demand so many changes of the final cut to the extent that it would be totally unlike the director's vision. The main influence EON held over their director's and writers was making sure all the films after GF had all the cliches in them (Q gadgets, meglomaniac villain with lair, large explosive third act, casino scene, etc). Outside that they usually let the director's do their job.
I still maintain most of the negatives points about TB that people point out and agree on were the responsibility of Young's direction - including his choice of his edits in his director's cut. The script itself may have had some weaknesses, but it does not inform the director how to cut a film. He was responsible for the overuse of undercranking in scenes (such as the Disco Volante finale) and the overlong running time due to uneven, often too slow pacing of scenes. Ernest Hosler was the film editor and yes, Peter Hunt was his supervising editor, but Young was the the man who decided whether the pacing and edits in his cut were how he wanted it to look.
Comments
GF's huge success had a large influence on how TB was done. Keep adding on the gadgets, make sure there is a strong female villain, have a woman sacrificed, put in more quips, make sure Bond gets equipped by Q in a funny scene, etc..
When Fleming adapted the screenplay for his novel, he brought his touch more to the story and made it more atmospheric and grisly, but the huge scope of the plot (just as in GF) minimized Bond's place in the story. Where as spectacle and global scaled threats work great on a big screen, they also reduce Bond to an action figure as part of a much larger mission. It's fun to watch as an action film and Connery does help maintain focus on Bond because of his sheer presence, but Fleming's actual character seems to be just a shadow to me in these big films.
Everything
CONS
Nothing
People who say Connery was losing his looks must be gorgeous. :007)
DN, FRWL, GF, TLD, LTK...
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Remove GF and add FYEO.
-- Relaxed Connery, still in great shape, and really settled into the role. Panther walk, flinty sense of humor, displaying the full range of emotions, able to handle the increasing fantasy and silliness. This is the last time he seems to genuinely be having fun.
-- Two of most beautiful women to ever grace a Bond movie -- Claudine Auger and Luciana Paluzzi, the latter of which deliciously wants to spill out of her dress frequently.
-- Auger is so much the epitome of 1960s style; Paluzzi is essentially a female Bond, and she seems a real threat to Bond.
-- Excellent, expensive production design. The film looks and feels stylish and "big," and it's one of the last Bond films where the locations really feel like a character themselves.
-- Junkanoo scene is so good, it's essentially redone in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
-- Lots of great night scenes. Too often, especially in recent Bond films, the night scenes lack genuine atmosphere.
-- A genuine sense of kink -- cross-dressing, casual sex in public spaces -- and menace -- the dispatching of various SPECTRE failures, the cold assassination of Derval and his replacement -- that makes the Bond films seem adult while still being a fantasy.
-- Great score by John Barry.
-- Lovely credits animation sihlouettes.
-- Some fine miniature work -- Goldeneye 30 years later wouldn't look as good.
-- Great clothes and cars.
-- Adolpho Celli really looks and acts the part -- he could have been given a little more to do, but he exudes true menace.
-- The jokes don't quite yet eclipse the characters -- "Yes, no well-dressed man should be without one"; "Fly here often?"; "Since you're here, do you mind giving me something to put on?"; "Where's the kickstarter?" Even "I think he got the point" doesn't elicit the same groans it might a few years later, when the jokes became increasingly stale and predictable.
-- The scope for the Bond films keep getting bigger and bigger.
-- SPECTRE seems like a genuine large, multinational organization.
-- Great end scene with the skyhook and in spite of questionable rear projection.
Cons:
-- Tedious underwater fights and Keystone cops sped up boat fight.
-- Relatively minor continuity gaffes, but quite a few of them.
-- Poor rear projection, even for a Bond film. (To see how to use rear projection properly, watch a Hitchcock film of the era.)
-- Count Lippe is eliminated humorously but too soon -- Guy Doleman is largely wasted.
-- Blofeld makes an appearance but seems less a presence than in earlier films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3uutVWf80
Great post.
I couldn't have put it better myself - in fact I know I couldn't put it better myself so glad you did.
Wow, great stuff, great film in bits is DAF.
I'm not with you.
You soon will be.
Domino is the best looking Bond lady of all time B-)
+1 -{
Artistically, it can easily be argued that there are flaws in the film (continuity, editing, etc) and that the character of Bond himself began to take a back seat to the spectacle and gadgets- though the seeds had been sown in GF- plus, of course, that the numerous underwater sequences crucial to the plot made the film slower than ideal.
To which I respond- yeah, fair enough. There ARE flaws in the continuity (Felix's trousers for example), the editing (exactly how fast is the Disco Volante supposed to be travelling at the end?), and the underwater scenes could be seen as slowing the pace.
However, this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. It's one of the several Bond films which were designed to be seen on the big screen (eg YOLT, TSWLM) and can't be fully appreciated at home. The photography is beautiful and sometimes jaw-dropping. The various leading ladies are stunning (my pick would be Fiona, but Domino, Patricia and Paula are all superb), and Adolfo Celi is a colourful villain. Granted, he does not beat Gert Frobe's Goldfinger (though I don't think that was the intention) but there are few who do.
John Barry tops his excellent work on GF with one of his best scores, deliberately going OTT with the title song (deliciously used instrumentally during the film) as well as the superlative "Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and making possibly his best use of "007" during the Junkanoo and the underwater battle.
Bernard Lee, Lois Maxwell, and of course Desmond Llewelyn were never better. I love Bond and Q's patter here.
Above all, Sean Connery dominates the proceedings with his totally confident yet relaxed performance as 007. He and Terence Young both know exactly what they are doing here. Have you ever noticed how much of TB consists of simply Connery walking across a room? Young and Connery have nailed this easily overlooked point which tells the audience so much about Bond's character without words and hasn't been topped since (the closest is Gilbert and Moore). Here, they are quite literally following in the footsteps of John Huston and Humphrey Bogart (who did the same thing with "The Maltese Falcon").
So, I have to say that I love TB. It may not be the best Bond film (IMHO there's no such thing) but it's at or near the top.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Pros:
- Fiona Volpe is one of the best additions
- Hottest line up of Bond girls ever
- Connery has some hilarious lines in this movie, gotta love the guy.
- The way the plot seemed of world importance, with all the 007's
Cons:
- So much underwater scenes it's gets jarring
- suffers from slow pacing in parts
- the STUPID and rediciously sped up rear projection in the Disco Volante, one of the worst thing about this one!
And short story long: I personally shared all my thoughts on Thunderball in great detail in this video: (For those who care
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEnGi5Ools
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this one or Dr No
Last time Connery gave a damn about Bond.
John Barry score.
Beautiful Carribbean locations.
Cons:
Vague, lumbering, unfocused plot.
Underwater sequences outstay their welcome very quickly.
Some general technical shoddiness not seen in the series prior to this film
.
Vague, lumbering, unfocused plot"
Seemed pretty straight forward to me : if they get no extortion money they drop a bomb on a city
Pros:
- THE SCRIPT! "sharp little eyes", "licensed trouble shooter", "burn you up on the road", "she's just dead", "know a little about women", etc etc etc. One of the funniest. Good and not ridiculous funny like DAF.
- The characters - Volpe, Largo, Domino mainly
- PTS fight
- Plot is standard and too parodied these days but I like it
- The score (trumpets get irritating sometimes but KKBB and TB themes are fantastic)
Cons
- Weird edits sometimes, frames skipping
- Narrative conveniences/inconsistencies. Punching Felix then Bond says "007" right afterwards. Conveniently hitching a lift from Volpe. Several more examples which don't distract (can't even remember them now) but it marks the beginning of the ridiculousness
- Sound like a sheep but it's sllloooowww, film could be an hour shorter.
- The end Disco Volante fast footage is poor but it doesn't bother me much
It's a good film but my main issue is not the slow scenes - rather, there's no major Bond moments in between to look forward to. There's some enjoyable scenes and dialogue but no standout croc jump, barrel roll, skydive, car chase, etc that are present in many entries, including lower quality ones. So it will be interesting to see where TB ends up ranking
Actually directors rarely have much influence once a film has wrapped. The editor spends weeks sifting through hours of footage finally compiling a rough cut for the producers. Famously, the first cut of YOLT was over 4 hours long and OHMSS was approaching 4 hours.
It is unfortunate that Peter Hunt was not available due to his working on The Ipcress File otherwise we would have a much tighter cut for TBl.
Having said that I still think TB is a top Bond film I will add my pros and cons at a later date to each of the threads as it's been some time since I have seen them.
WW2 movies. With so many underwater scenes with so many stunt
Actors etc. Visually it still looks amazing. -{ and combined with the
Fantastic music score of John Barry. {[] Magical.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
The director's influence on how the film appears on release depends on whether they have the final cut in their contract. This was unusual for director's like Young to have since studios like UA and EON did not like the practice. Usually only auteur directors who often also produced their films have this power - Spieberg and Lucas are examples of this.
The rough cut is not assembled for the producers - it is the first pass (assembly edit) of what the final film will be when it reaches picture lock. This is the point where the director is responsible for creating the "director's cut" - the time that is set aside where the film editor's first cut from the rough cut is molded to fit the director's vision. While collaborating on this stage of the editing, the director and the editor go over the entire movie in great detail; scenes and shots are re-ordered, removed, shortened and otherwise tweaked to obtain the director's vision.
In the final cut stage, sometimes subsequent edits are supervised by one or more producers, who represent the production company and/or movie studio. In normal cases, these are usually quite minor tweaks dealing with such things as maintaining the rating of the film (overseeing the violence and sex and pc situations) so it keeps in line with how they want the film to appear to conform to the corporate image of the people financing the project.
It is rare for producers at this stage to demand so many changes of the final cut to the extent that it would be totally unlike the director's vision. The main influence EON held over their director's and writers was making sure all the films after GF had all the cliches in them (Q gadgets, meglomaniac villain with lair, large explosive third act, casino scene, etc). Outside that they usually let the director's do their job.
I still maintain most of the negatives points about TB that people point out and agree on were the responsibility of Young's direction - including his choice of his edits in his director's cut. The script itself may have had some weaknesses, but it does not inform the director how to cut a film. He was responsible for the overuse of undercranking in scenes (such as the Disco Volante finale) and the overlong running time due to uneven, often too slow pacing of scenes. Ernest Hosler was the film editor and yes, Peter Hunt was his supervising editor, but Young was the the man who decided whether the pacing and edits in his cut were how he wanted it to look.
VARGAS