Jarvio has GF quite low on his ranking, even though it's one of the most highly regarded Bond films.
And he has AVTAK at his favorite of the franchise, even though (if I'm correct) many a Bond fan dislikes it.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I'd hardly say that it's something unique to any one particular fandom. Regardless, while people have a right to their opinion, others also reserve the right to criticize it or comment on it once you put it out there. If you don't want your opinions scrutinized, keep them to yourself.
In essence, what irks me is not that I disagree with Dyson, it's that he's not very good at explaining/defending his opinions, and uses childish criticisms like "it was boring" or "not enough action."
It's obvious from his reviews that he hates storytelling and dialogue, barely even paying attention to either, to the point where he doesn't even get plot points right in his rundowns and is always acting confused about scenes that are pretty straightforward. One might suspect he spends more time talking about Bond films than actually watching them.
"You know a lot about guns, Mr. Bond."
"No. I know a little about women."
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Pros:
+ Domino
+ The film feels like a semi-direct continuation of Dr. No and From Russia with Love
+ Mixes the structure of Quantum of Solace and From Russia with Love with a pacing that reminds me of Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
+ Fiona Volpe
+ Bond intentionally using Fiona as a 'human shield'
Cons:
- Needed more explicit explanation of what SPECTRE's motivations were
- Emilio Largo wasn't nearly as strong a villain as Fiona Volpe even though he's supposed to be the primary antagonist and she merely a henchperson
- The editing of the final few sequences of the movie makes it hard to accurately track what's happening
Cons:
- Needed more explicit explanation of what SPECTRE's motivations were
Did you miss the scene where the Home Secretary plays the tape that SPECTRE sent to the Prime Minister for all the 00s?
It felt like there should've been more explicit communication of exactly why they were doing what they were doing beyond just acquiring money... especially in relation to FRwL and YOLT.
Cons:
- Needed more explicit explanation of what SPECTRE's motivations were
Did you miss the scene where the Home Secretary plays the tape that SPECTRE sent to the Prime Minister for all the 00s?
It felt like there should've been more explicit communication of exactly why they were doing what they were doing beyond just acquiring money... especially in relation to FRwL and YOLT.
Then tell me, what was SPECTRE doing beyond wanting money? I didn't know they had another motive.
^ It's not so much that they should've communicated that they had another objective beyond just acquiring money, but that I think we ought to have seen them discussing the reasoning behind their motive of acquiring money amongst themselves the way that we see them talking about their motives amongst themselves in FRwL and YOLT rather than just going "we want you to give us a bunch of money in the form of diamonds or we're going to blow up a city".
^ It's not so much that they should've communicated that they had another objective beyond just acquiring money, but that I think we ought to have seen them discussing the reasoning behind their motive of acquiring money amongst themselves the way that we see them talking about their motives amongst themselves in FRwL and YOLT rather than just going "we want you to give us a bunch of money in the form of diamonds or we're going to blow up a city".
Ah, I understand your point of view better now. You want to know why they want £100M.
For me, it's enough that money equals power. It's the "Extortion" branch of SPECTRE. They need money to fund their counterintelligence, terrorism and revenge. If I had to guess what the money would specifically be used for, it would be to hollow out a second volcano.
Ah, I understand your point of view better now. You want to know why they want £100M.
Precisely.
Because we'd seen them talking about their motives amongst themselves in FRwL, not having them do the same in Thunderball just felt a bit 'off' to me, particularly when you throw YOLT into the mix as well since, like FRwL, we get a scene of them discussing what's going on amongst themselves.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Ah, I understand your point of view better now. You want to know why they want £100M.
Precisely.
Because we'd seen them talking about their motives amongst themselves in FRwL, not having them do the same in Thunderball just felt a bit 'off' to me, particularly when you throw YOLT into the mix as well since, like FRwL, we get a scene of them discussing what's going on amongst themselves.
I'm working on a campaign to raise a few million dollars. The campaign isn't to raise the money for anything in particular, just general operations. I don't see what's wrong with assuming the same of SPECTRE. SPECTRE certainly needs a lot of money for its general operations. I don't see why the money needs to be for something specific. It's like if Le Chiffre wins the money in Casino Royale, it would be the British government directly funding terrorism (which is how it ended up). We're never told what the terrorism would be, and it's really irrelevant to the story. It should have been mentioned in QOS. Sometimes we're given too much information in movies, and that can distract us from the part of story that actually matters. The focus is on what they would do if they don't get the money. We don't need to be distracted by what they would do with money they don't have.
Thunderball is still my favorite of the pre-Craig films I've seen so far and of the Connery Era, though, so while a lack of an explanation as to the 'why' behind SPECTRE's actions is a negative for me, it's not a big enough negative to detract from my overall enjoyment of the film.
I definitely like Connery more on GF than on TB, I just find him somewhat unappealing in the latter.
Not saying that he was terrible in TB, he does have some good moments, but overall I don't sense him as inspired in TB as he was in GF.
Also, am I alone in preferring his YOLT performance to his TB performance? I'm sure that may be an unconventional opinion but I'll just throw it in.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Calvin Dyson dislikes the movie - well thats a plus point in its favour
Ha, so true. While the guy does make me chuckle, his tastes are rather strange; his ranking of all 23 films made me cringe. TWINE in the top 5... and above Goldfinger. Wow.
I met a guy who owned a dive shop in the Florida Keys. We started talking about TB (he had a big poster up in the shop). He said he was one of the extras in the big underwater fight scene at the end, and the bit where the shark comes swimming through was totally unplanned. The shark just showed up and somebody shot it with a spear gun out of self defense.
It's highly unlikely the shark was waiting for the director to call action and then arrive on the scene. As for shooting it in self defense, my guess is the person just panicked. Of course, the shark will never get a chance to tell their side of the story 8-)
"Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". - Homer J Simpson
"Perhaps you'd call one for me."
"Of course. Pull!"
"Seems terribly difficult. No it isn't, is it?"
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
This is currently my least fave of Terrence Young's Bond films.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Comparing this one to FRWL, I feel FRWL nailed the pacing better (then again, I overall prefer the action in FRWL, which may be a key factor).
I just don't get what happened to Connery after GF. He was so great in that film (for me anyways), but here his performance feels average to me.
Not bad, but average. He has his moments here and there, but it's not the same as his GF performance for me.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
^ I agree about the Connery points and without taking a personal preference - I know FRWL is the better film of the two.
As I said in the other thread, there is a particular mood to TB that makes me enjoy this film and look past the flaws and those are the scenes in the Bahamas - there's a lot of fun in them, and it's like being on holiday for some reason.
But other than that, there are plenty of elements to TB that I don't particularly enjoy:
- The left-to right fade between scenes.
- Many elements of the film feel dragged out, in particular the underwater battles, the Vulcan scenes and the hospital section.
- The green-screen effects and sped-up aspects of the end.
- Connery looking bored (to your point).
It seems to me that TB and YOLT both seem to suffer from not being able to correctly do large scale films - almost like they were walking before they could crawl.
It wasn't until TSWLM could they get the scale feeling like well-applied scale.
Thunderball would be my favourite Bond film ever. Very hard to split this and Dr. No as my No.1 but if I had to choose then this is it.
On the negative side, I totally agree with the majority about the underwater battle; far too long and the same goes for the ending (all over the shop as well). The Junkanoo was colourful, a bit long but a nice lead in to Fiona and Bond on the dance floor. There were a lot of mistakes (see attached) as I'm sure is the case with most films:
And totally agree with the other posters: re: Vargas - I'd be more scared of Sister Lily from Dr. No and she was lovely
However, the positives far outweigh the negatives in this film: I thought the dialogue was good, the scenery (especially in The Bahamas) was excellent, the dry humour, the car chase not long after Bond leaving Shrublands in the Aston Martin, the Aston Martin itself, the soundtrack (definitely my favourite John Barry score), the baccarat card game between Bond and Largo, Bond and Domino on the dance floor (best romantic moment in a Bond film - in my opinion, although Diana Rigg and George Lazenby come close in OHMSS), the Vulcans I actually liked, the chemistry between Bond and Domino (on the pleasant side) and the chemistry between Bond and Fiona (on the evil side) are hard to beat.
As for the comments Connery looking a bit tired and bored, I'm not sure. If Connery wasn't enthused working alongside Claudine Auger (my favourite Bond girl), Luciana Paluzzi, Molly Peters and Martine Beswick then there is no pleasing some people, Connery anyway Also, I thought that Lois Maxwell and Connery had a connection (on screen, possibly off screen as well). I thought this was one of his best performances but most of his Bond portrayals were good except for DAF that in my opinion was probably his worst. NSNA I have never considered a Bond film.
"Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974; It's a scientific fact". - Homer J Simpson
I quite liked the underwater battle, it's something different. What I didn't like is the long drawn out scenes throughout the movie, both underwater and on ground
Comments
And he has AVTAK at his favorite of the franchise, even though (if I'm correct) many a Bond fan dislikes it.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
In essence, what irks me is not that I disagree with Dyson, it's that he's not very good at explaining/defending his opinions, and uses childish criticisms like "it was boring" or "not enough action."
It's obvious from his reviews that he hates storytelling and dialogue, barely even paying attention to either, to the point where he doesn't even get plot points right in his rundowns and is always acting confused about scenes that are pretty straightforward. One might suspect he spends more time talking about Bond films than actually watching them. Don't get me wrong, I really dig the film and think it's quite underrated. Still... better than Goldfinger? I can't help but grimace, sorry.
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
"You know a lot about guns, Mr. Bond."
"No. I know a little about women."
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
+ Domino
+ The film feels like a semi-direct continuation of Dr. No and From Russia with Love
+ Mixes the structure of Quantum of Solace and From Russia with Love with a pacing that reminds me of Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark
+ Fiona Volpe
+ Bond intentionally using Fiona as a 'human shield'
Cons:
- Needed more explicit explanation of what SPECTRE's motivations were
- Emilio Largo wasn't nearly as strong a villain as Fiona Volpe even though he's supposed to be the primary antagonist and she merely a henchperson
- The editing of the final few sequences of the movie makes it hard to accurately track what's happening
Did you miss the scene where the Home Secretary plays the tape that SPECTRE sent to the Prime Minister for all the 00s?
It felt like there should've been more explicit communication of exactly why they were doing what they were doing beyond just acquiring money... especially in relation to FRwL and YOLT.
Then tell me, what was SPECTRE doing beyond wanting money? I didn't know they had another motive.
Ah, I understand your point of view better now. You want to know why they want £100M.
For me, it's enough that money equals power. It's the "Extortion" branch of SPECTRE. They need money to fund their counterintelligence, terrorism and revenge. If I had to guess what the money would specifically be used for, it would be to hollow out a second volcano.
Precisely.
Because we'd seen them talking about their motives amongst themselves in FRwL, not having them do the same in Thunderball just felt a bit 'off' to me, particularly when you throw YOLT into the mix as well since, like FRwL, we get a scene of them discussing what's going on amongst themselves.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I'm working on a campaign to raise a few million dollars. The campaign isn't to raise the money for anything in particular, just general operations. I don't see what's wrong with assuming the same of SPECTRE. SPECTRE certainly needs a lot of money for its general operations. I don't see why the money needs to be for something specific. It's like if Le Chiffre wins the money in Casino Royale, it would be the British government directly funding terrorism (which is how it ended up). We're never told what the terrorism would be, and it's really irrelevant to the story. It should have been mentioned in QOS. Sometimes we're given too much information in movies, and that can distract us from the part of story that actually matters. The focus is on what they would do if they don't get the money. We don't need to be distracted by what they would do with money they don't have.
Thunderball is still my favorite of the pre-Craig films I've seen so far and of the Connery Era, though, so while a lack of an explanation as to the 'why' behind SPECTRE's actions is a negative for me, it's not a big enough negative to detract from my overall enjoyment of the film.
That it does.
Not saying that he was terrible in TB, he does have some good moments, but overall I don't sense him as inspired in TB as he was in GF.
Also, am I alone in preferring his YOLT performance to his TB performance? I'm sure that may be an unconventional opinion but I'll just throw it in.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I'm going to make you cringe too. TWINE is my #1.
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
It's highly unlikely the shark was waiting for the director to call action and then arrive on the scene. As for shooting it in self defense, my guess is the person just panicked. Of course, the shark will never get a chance to tell their side of the story 8-)
"Of course. Pull!"
"Seems terribly difficult. No it isn't, is it?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Bond: Pierce Brosnan Villain: Hugo Drax Girl: Pam Bouvier
"Better make that two."
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I would agree with this Agent Purple. They are all fantastic films though. -{
I just don't get what happened to Connery after GF. He was so great in that film (for me anyways), but here his performance feels average to me.
Not bad, but average. He has his moments here and there, but it's not the same as his GF performance for me.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
As I said in the other thread, there is a particular mood to TB that makes me enjoy this film and look past the flaws and those are the scenes in the Bahamas - there's a lot of fun in them, and it's like being on holiday for some reason.
But other than that, there are plenty of elements to TB that I don't particularly enjoy:
- The left-to right fade between scenes.
- Many elements of the film feel dragged out, in particular the underwater battles, the Vulcan scenes and the hospital section.
- The green-screen effects and sped-up aspects of the end.
- Connery looking bored (to your point).
It seems to me that TB and YOLT both seem to suffer from not being able to correctly do large scale films - almost like they were walking before they could crawl.
It wasn't until TSWLM could they get the scale feeling like well-applied scale.
"Better make that two."
On the negative side, I totally agree with the majority about the underwater battle; far too long and the same goes for the ending (all over the shop as well). The Junkanoo was colourful, a bit long but a nice lead in to Fiona and Bond on the dance floor. There were a lot of mistakes (see attached) as I'm sure is the case with most films:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059800/goofs
And totally agree with the other posters: re: Vargas - I'd be more scared of Sister Lily from Dr. No and she was lovely
However, the positives far outweigh the negatives in this film: I thought the dialogue was good, the scenery (especially in The Bahamas) was excellent, the dry humour, the car chase not long after Bond leaving Shrublands in the Aston Martin, the Aston Martin itself,
As for the comments Connery looking a bit tired and bored, I'm not sure. If Connery wasn't enthused working alongside Claudine Auger (my favourite Bond girl), Luciana Paluzzi, Molly Peters and Martine Beswick then there is no pleasing some people, Connery anyway