Spectre's script problems shouldn't be held against it

Absolutely_Cart

Calling a gloomy forecast because of the leaks doesn't make sense, as it's not fair to judge a product that's only in beta. Especially when it seems the team is very open to constructive criticism and dedicated toward fixing the mistakes.

I'm sure lots of acclaimed films, even in the Bond series, had to go through lots of rewrites.

The Red Kind

The leaks really aren't a problem for me. I've avoided reading anything and have no wish to. This film looks like it'll be brilliant no matter what. The re-writes and re-jigs will be fine I'm sure.

In any case, how many times do we watch these films over and over again, even though we know what's going to happen and know a lot of the script off by heart. I could watch any Bond film tomorrow and still enjoy it as much as the first time. -{

Absolutely_Cart

I skimmed through the leaks. So I know a little - not a lot. And I'm perfectly fine with the little I do know.

AlphaOmegaSin

Those Leaks were most likely of early Versions of the Script.

Absolutely_Cart

Yes, I agree. I'd be willing to say that they were concept scripts before they even decided to call the film "Spectre". The fact that the script is leaked makes Eon even more motivated to refine it.

Moore Than

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

Those Leaks were most likely of early Versions of the Script.

My understanding is that early versions of the script were leaked but also the final draft version from approx early December featuring the reported extensive re-writes by Purvis & Wade. I read a couple of pages that contained comments from studio exec/s? on certain aspects of the early versions, that was enough for me.

AlphaOmegaSin

I luckily never saw the Leaks -{

Matt S

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

I'm sure lots of acclaimed films, even in the Bond series, had to go through lots of rewrites.

Indeed. Many Bond scripts have been re-written, both good ones and bad ones. Many people here like Casino Royale, and that was rewritten from the original. I wouldn't be surprised if rewriting film scripts is a very common thing, and giving Spectre a gloomy forecast because the script had to be rewritten is uncalled for.

Blackleiter

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Calling a gloomy forecast because of the leaks doesn't make sense, as it's not fair to judge a product that's only in beta. Especially when it seems the team is very open to constructive criticism and dedicated toward fixing the mistakes.

I'm sure lots of acclaimed films, even in the Bond series, had to go through lots of rewrites.

I absolutely agree with you, and I'm glad that I haven't bothered to look at any of the leaked material or pay much attention to the so-called "problems" with the filming. The finished product is all that matters to me.

Thunderpussy

True, I have not looked for any information on the script etc, so Have no
Idea about problems. the final Movie is all that counts.

Sir Miles

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Yes, I agree. I'd be willing to say that they were concept scripts before they even decided to call the film "Spectre". The fact that the script is leaked makes Eon even more motivated to refine it.

Not all are...some are quite recent...depends upon which you've seen - obviously...

Spoff

Perhaps the leaks may have been a good outcome from a bad initial situation?

I know some things in it certainly attracted some criticism. Maybe the writers saw some of the feedback and will make an even better film?

Spoff

Matt S wrote:

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

I'm sure lots of acclaimed films, even in the Bond series, had to go through lots of rewrites.

Indeed. Many Bond scripts have been re-written, both good ones and bad ones. Many people here like Casino Royale, and that was rewritten from the original. I wouldn't be surprised if rewriting film scripts is a very common thing, and giving Spectre a gloomy forecast because the script had to be rewritten is uncalled for.

Script re-writing and polishing is very common, the scripts can pass through a large number of writers hands before they get the final "shooting script".

I read in a film book that they can go through five or six re-writes, and a few polishes, and then still change things even whilst actually filming if a better idea comes along whilst on set.

Sometimes something that really works on paper just does not translate very well when they actually film it, so they can change it there and then if they have a better idea. Interesting thing is, the ad-hoc idea can come from anywhere, the actor, the director, the guy who does the lighting, a props guy etc...

From what I have read, it happens a lot more than you would think too.

If you download and read a final shooting script and then watch the actual film, you will notice differences between the shooting script and what is actually on the screen in pretty much any one you choose.

BIG TAM

I agree with what's been said. Films go through numerous script drafts these days for many different reasons. SPECTRE's no exception. The material I've seen reads pretty good.

Spoff

BIG TAM wrote:

I agree with what's been said. Films go through numerous script drafts these days for many different reasons. SPECTRE's no exception. The material I've seen reads pretty good.

I agree, I have high hopes for SPECTRE, I think it will be great.

Catching Bullets

What script problems? It never ceases to amaze me how some folk believe every bad rumour going.

Ens007

Catching Bullets wrote:

What script problems? It never ceases to amaze me how some folk believe every bad rumour going.

X2!

SFPROPS

I read the shooting script (which likely will differ from the final product due to changes made while filming and editing) and I didn't see any problems. I thought the dialog and story was as good as Skyfall and the ending seemed appropriate. I can't wait to see it on film!

HowardB

Script doctoring, polishing and full re-writes are like an industry unto itself in Hollywood. There's an excellent documentary film out about famed maverick director John Milius....that guy did so many re-writes and polishes it seemed like he had a hand in every great script ever produced with much of his work uncredited. When they asked Connery to step in for Klaus Maria Brandaur in "The Hunt For Red October" one of Connery's conditions was that they bring Milius in to re-write his dialogue or "speeches" as Connery put it. Who knows besides Logan, Purvis and Wade has had a hand in the SPECTRE script? It's all about what shows up on the screen. Some films have even been saved / improved in the editing room and/or with a few re-shoots. All about the end product, not how they got there.

Moore Than

HowardB wrote:

Who knows besides Logan, Purvis and Wade has had a hand in the SPECTRE script?

Reportedly, Jez Butterworth also has had a hand in the SPECTRE script. He was brought in by Sam Mendes around Sept/Oct last year to "polish" the script.

Virgil37

A great movie is not written. It is rewritten. Many times. Some of the greatest movies ever were rewritten on set.

Bond movies improve with rewrittes. That extra year in between movies (3 years instead of 2), really pays off. That's why QoS is the weakest of Craig's. They didn't have time for rewritting the material. SPECTRE is going to be great.

Absolutely_Cart

Exactly.

QOS is the exception - not the rule.

Westward_Drift

Virgil37 wrote:

A great movie is not written. It is rewritten. Many times. Some of the greatest movies ever were rewritten on set.

Bond movies improve with rewrittes. That extra year in between movies (3 years instead of 2), really pays off. That's why QoS is the weakest of Craig's. They didn't have time for rewritting the material. SPECTRE is going to be great.

The writers strike also played a big part in QOS's script problems. The choice of director also didn't help.

SFPROPS

Forster is a good director. I just don't think he was right for Bond. The film would have been a lot better had it just been filmed/edited by someone who knew what they were doing. The car chase PTS was an real opportunity lost when you can't tell what the heck is going on for most of it. Instead of being an average Bond, it could have been a good one. The script and story is what kept it from being great.

Matt S

SFPROPS wrote:

Forster is a good director. I just don't think he was right for Bond. The film would have been a lot better had it just been filmed/edited by someone who knew what they were doing. The car chase PTS was an real opportunity lost when you can't tell what the heck is going on for most of it. Instead of being an average Bond, it could have been a good one. The script and story is what kept it from being great.

It didn't feel like any of Forster's other films I've seen. It's like he felt that he had to copy other action films and didn't think his own style was appropriate.

Number24

"This is a brilliant script - who can we get to rewrite it?" )

Gala Brand

Matt S wrote:

SFPROPS wrote:

Forster is a good director. I just don't think he was right for Bond. The film would have been a lot better had it just been filmed/edited by someone who knew what they were doing. The car chase PTS was an real opportunity lost when you can't tell what the heck is going on for most of it. Instead of being an average Bond, it could have been a good one. The script and story is what kept it from being great.

It didn't feel like any of Forster's other films I've seen. It's like he felt that he had to copy other action films and didn't think his own style was appropriate.

QOS truly had a weak script and my theory is that Forster resorted to a lot of film making tricks to cover up the lack of story.

Gala Brand

The people who are pre-disposed to dislike SPECTRE will use the leaks to bash the end product with comments like "Everybody knew this movie was doomed from the beginning" and "The lack of a quality script is obvious yet EON went ahead and made it anyway," etc.

The fact is that all major motion pictures go through numerous re-writes.

Gassy Man

What I read of the summary of SPECTRE's script sounded underwhelming -- a paint-by-numbers approach to plotting. There was a decision about the fate of one of the characters, too, that I found a huge misstep given the opportunity the character presents for future stories. Hopefully, these issues will have been corrected in the final draft.

SFPROPS

Things have changed since the summary was written.

Virgil37

Number24 wrote:

"This is a brilliant script - who can we get to rewrite it?" )

That's not a rare. A sript might have a great story, and it's brilliant, but 9 out of 10 times it needs further work. Dialogues can be improved, scenes can be made more tense, characters can be given more weight, etc, etc. It's said that the last draft of the script is the first cut of the movie, and it still will be improved upon a few times until reaching final cut.

No one gets it right the first time. Unless you are Orson Welles and Hermann Mankiewicz, that is...