The Bond Formula

Absolutely_Cart

Formulas help with quality control. They're basically the reason why many ethnic-based restaurants serve a hamburger because you can't screw a hamburger up. None of the films in the series have been outright awful because they've stuck with such an effective formula, started by Dr. No and Goldfinger. But I'd also argue that a number of the films in the series borrowed more from the franchise than they contributed to it.

Here's the formula in a nutshell

* Gun barrel sequence
* Pre title action scene
* Credit/theme song
* M gives Bond assignment
* Q gives Bond gadgets
* Bond flirts with Moneypenny
* Bond flies to a foreign country
* Bond gets leads from an informant or sleeps with villain's mistress
* Mistress or informant who helped Bond dies by the villain's hand
* The villain is revealed to Bond
* Bond plays game/competition with villain
* Bond meets the "bondgirl"
* Henchman chases Bond
* Villain kidnaps Bond and Bondgirl
* Villain talks to Bond for a while - not killing him yet
* Villain puts Bond in a slow elaborate trap
* Bond escapes, rescues the Bondgirl, informs MI6 of the villains plan
* Bond (often with some help) defeats the villain and the henchman too
* Bond and the Bondgirl have sex.
* The end.

Which of these tropes can change and which are totally fine.

broadshoulder

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

None of the films in the series have been outright awful because they've stuck with such an effective formula, started by Dr. No and Goldfinger. .

Yes you can - Die another day

Spoff

I thought Skyfall was awful.

I know I am in a minority, but I really did think it was awful.

M 'n' M

Yep, pretty good list

I'd suggest a couple of others (or developments)

When Bond meets villain they often have some sort of competition, which Bonds wins (Goldfinger -golf; Moonraker - shooting; Octopussy - cards etc)

Also, there's often a scene where the villain kills one or more of his henchmen / helpers / advisers

Absolutely_Cart

Note, I'm not condemning all of the tick-boxing bits like the M assignment, the Q scene, the game scene and the chase. I'm only criticizing elements that are supposed to be major plot points that were borrowed from numerous other movies, which have become cliche due to their lack of orginality.

Megalomaniac villain that wants to use a resource/technology to dominate the world:
GF, TB, DAF, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK, GE, TND, DAD, QOS (11/23)

A "Bond girl" is introduced purely to be slept with and then murdered for working with Bond (Aka "woman in a refridgerator", and for some reason the villains never kill Bond):
GF, TB, YOLT, DAF, LALD, MWGG, MR, AVTAK, TND, CR, QOS, SF (12/23) ; I didn't include LTK, but it practically does the same thing with Della and Felix (for the sake of the plot)

The ending is basically Bond getting "alone time" with the girl, alongside "the good guys always win":
DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, DAF, LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, DAD (19/23)

welshboy78

Any ideas what you would do otherwise, to stray away from the EON / Fleming formula

Barbel

welshboy78 wrote:

Any ideas what you would do otherwise, to stray away from the EON / Fleming formula

That's been tried before,



though we know what happened then.

Absolutely_Cart

welshboy78 wrote:

Any ideas what you would do otherwise, to stray away from the EON / Fleming formula

Well, I guess we can start to look at the films that do innovate (in certain regards) rather than stick to the formula.

Craig's films had completely original endings, as did OHMSS.

As for villain plans, LALD/FYEO/LTK involved drug dealing. OP/TWINE/CR/SF involved terrorism. Blofeld's goal in OHMSS to seek amnesty was a refreshing surprise. TLD also had an original plot with an extremist faction of the Soviet Union making a betrayal.

And as for the dead mistress trope, the films that avoided it:

OHMSS - They were kept alive in order to lure Bond
TSWLM/TLD - Bond was less promiscuous
FYEO - Bibi was the 2nd Bond girl... Nevermind lol...
OP - 2nd Bond girl worked with Octopussy instead of Kamal
LTK - Lupe survives.
GE/TWINE/DAD - Bond girl becomes a villain and dies that way
QOS - Camille is a new kind of Bond girl (they should have left it with her)

Absolutely_Cart

Barbel wrote:

welshboy78 wrote:

Any ideas what you would do otherwise, to stray away from the EON / Fleming formula

That's been tried before,



though we know what happened then.

Extreme example much?

At least you can admit that movies like TWINE, TLD and CR06 (on the whole) successfully tried to change up many of the cliches.

Matt S

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

QOS - Camille is a new kind of Bond girl (they should have left it with her)

I asked you this before. What do you mean by Camille being a new kind of Bond girl? Just because she doesn't sleep with Bond? Nevertheless, she has a lot in common with a few other Bond girls.

Barbel

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

At least you can admit that movies like TWINE, TLD and CR06 (on the whole) successfully tried to change up many of the cliches.

"Admit"??? That's a loaded word to use.

welshboy78

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Craig's films had completely original endings, as did OHMSS.

Casino Royale and OHMSS follow and end just closely like the book BTW (though Vesper killed herself differently)

TWINE doesn't change much from the old film formula much in my eyes (guess thats why Denise Richards and dodgy Xmas line included, OTT gadgets etc)

CmdrAtticus

Fleming actually came up with this formula when he did DN. I think he was writing this with the idea it might be filmed someday, so he put in this type of plotting that could be reproduced with each new adventure. EON probably would have made GF the next film since it relied on the same plot devices (which I have coined the "EON-Bond Commandments"). However, FRWL was a hot commodity since the world found out it was JFK's favorite thriller at the time (he even had dinner with Fleming before he was president), so EON capitalized on this and made it instead, though it was more an old, early Fleming - straight cold war story. After that, they were able to do GF and revert back to their formula and they used it as long as it made them money.

Gala Brand

New tropes? There's a whole barrelful of spy tropes that have never really been used in Bond films: Dead drops, codes, surveillance, electronic and otherwise, canary traps, fake defections, exfiltrations, infiltrations, honey traps, disinformation etc.

The actual tools of espionage have never been a big part of the Bond films. This was true of the books as well, which was odd since Flemin g was an actual spy.

Lady Ice

Matt S wrote:

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

QOS - Camille is a new kind of Bond girl (they should have left it with her)

I asked you this before. What do you mean by Camille being a new kind of Bond girl? Just because she doesn't sleep with Bond? Nevertheless, she has a lot in common with a few other Bond girls.

One thing that the Craig films have done (apart from Skyfall- or at least not as obviously) is to present women that Bond identifies with. We see some of Bond's qualities in Vesper; their back-and-forth dialogue suggests that she is almost a female counterpart. Camille is ostensibly a love interest but actually her issue reflects Bond's; they're both damaged and on a revenge mission. Through her, Bond can see that revenge is hollow.

HatThrowingHenchman

Matt S wrote:

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

QOS - Camille is a new kind of Bond girl (they should have left it with her)

I asked you this before. What do you mean by Camille being a new kind of Bond girl? Just because she doesn't sleep with Bond? Nevertheless, she has a lot in common with a few other Bond girls.

I think the newer Bond girls don't varry so much from the old ones.
they are just a bit more independent (applyes only to Camille) than for example Tiffany Case.

but in the end, all the actresses say the same thing like "my character is completely different...se has to fight her way through...I've always been a Bond fan" *sigh*
I think Craig's best Bond girl (character-wise) was definately Camille and I hope she'll return in a Craig installment again!

Bondage007

HatThrowingHenchman wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

QOS - Camille is a new kind of Bond girl (they should have left it with her)

I asked you this before. What do you mean by Camille being a new kind of Bond girl? Just because she doesn't sleep with Bond? Nevertheless, she has a lot in common with a few other Bond girls.

I think the newer Bond girls don't varry so much from the old ones.
they are just a bit more independent (applyes only to Camille) than for example Tiffany Case.

but in the end, all the actresses say the same thing like "my character is completely different...se has to fight her way through...I've always been a Bond fan" *sigh*
I think Craig's best Bond girl (character-wise) was definately Camille and I hope she'll return in a Craig installment again!

What was not independent about Vesper? Apart from getting blackmailed? Falling in love?

Anyway, the difference also is they hired actresses in this era (and for the most part Brosnan's), not Miss Universe's.

HatThrowingHenchman

Bondage007 wrote:

HatThrowingHenchman wrote:

Matt S wrote:

I asked you this before. What do you mean by Camille being a new kind of Bond girl? Just because she doesn't sleep with Bond? Nevertheless, she has a lot in common with a few other Bond girls.

I think the newer Bond girls don't varry so much from the old ones.
they are just a bit more independent (applyes only to Camille) than for example Tiffany Case.

but in the end, all the actresses say the same thing like "my character is completely different...se has to fight her way through...I've always been a Bond fan" *sigh*
I think Craig's best Bond girl (character-wise) was definately Camille and I hope she'll return in a Craig installment again!

What was not independent about Vesper? Apart from getting blackmailed? Falling in love?

Anyway, the difference also is they hired actresses in this era (and for the most part Brosnan's), not Miss Universe's.

here's how: not that I have any problem with Vesper but she depends on Bond.she lays ger biyfriends and also her faith entirely in the hands of an agent she's never met before and trusts him to win millions in a game of luck.

as for Brosnan's girls: I think to cast a "miss Universe" as eye candy is absolutely fine.I mean for 20 years we've had them and it didn't bother me if they could stand up for themselves.It's just a part of the formula for me.
maybe in general you could say about me that in not particularly keen on these in-depth characters.
the formula has worked for 40 years and it would still!

Lady Ice

I think casting an actress who is good and very pretty is ideal. Otherwise if we're going to cast models who can't act, we can bring in some nice male ones.

I don't think that Bond girls have to be completely independent; a mixture would be good, just like life.

Absolutely_Cart

I don't think all Bond girls need be fully independent, femme fetale, feminist statements

But we need to put an end to bad acting, naked women being next to clothed men and women who purely exist in their role just to be a dead mistress.

Barbel

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

But we need to put an end to... naked women being next to clothed men.

I must have missed that one

Thunderpussy

There are some specialist movies you can find on the interweb full
Of naked women and men ........... Farm animals too. ..... Or so
I've been told AC. Maybe you are getting those mixed up with
The Bond films ? )

Absolutely_Cart

Barbel wrote:

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

But we need to put an end to... naked women being next to clothed men.

I must have missed that one

DAF, TMWTGG, for example. I should say almost naked but thats really splitting hairs.

Barbel

) Almost naked, sure, but that is part of the formula!

Edit- But they'll never put an end to bad acting.... and that's part of the formula too.

Absolutely_Cart

Formula is for babies

Matt S

For Die Another Day they hired an Oscar-winning actress, and they got one of the worst Bond girls ever.

Barbel

Technically, no- she won the Oscar during the filming of DAD. Though I agree with your point!

chrisisall

X-( All this repetitive Jinx hate is...




sadly justified I guess...

Matt S

Barbel wrote:

Technically, no- she won the Oscar during the filming of DAD. Though I agree with your point!

She had already given her Oscar-worthy performance.

Absolutely_Cart

Jinx is by no means a bad character, but she gets extra praise because she's Halle Berry.

Dutchfinger

Jinx does indeed get a lot of hate from Die hard Bond fans, but lots of casual fans were praising her, indeed because she's Halle Berry. I remember back in 2002 they were all planning a Jinx spin-off movie (or series or whatever) and she was all up for that. Thank god that didn't happen!

I have to say though, I'm not that much of a hater of Jinx myself. Halle Berry is very easy on the eye. The acting is just a bit wooden in parts, and the dialoque that was written for her didn't make things easier for her either...

But still, in my honest opinion she rocked that bikini (most outfits she waired in the movie looked good for that matter.) And really, she's not worse than a lot of Bond girls from the past. Compare her to another American female agent like Rosie from LALD, I thought she was much worse....