Most sought after Bond era Walthers?

SimonTemplar

Hi All,
Which is the most sought after Bond era Walthers in particular the PPK at the moment?
I always thought the Connery era or 1962 when it all started but it may not be. I suppose none of the Walthers are rare by a long shot but it association with Bond might have made some year or type more valuable?


Simon

Asp9mm

Probably the rarest is the Brosnan GE and TND versions that had a parkerised finish. I've only seen three and two of those were the screen used ones. Walther only seemed to have made one small batch in the mid 90's. Must have been for a military contract, but try as I might, I can't find any info on who that was. Royal Ordnance has been touted, but I can't find proof of that.

Maybe Donk can throw more light on it. It's his speciality area.

SimonTemplar

What about Daniel Craig's Walther in QOS?

Simon

Asp9mm

Not really rare. His 1962 SKYFALL London one is much more scarce, but only for the date of manufacture, they made them for years exactly the same and it's only the serial number that confirms the date, so apart from that looks identical to ones made a few years before and after.

ppw3o6r

Asp9mm wrote:

Probably the rarest is the Brosnan GE and TND versions that had a parkerised finish. I've only seen three and two of those were the screen used ones. Walther only seemed to have made one small batch in the mid 90's. Must have been for a military contract, but try as I might, I can't find any info on who that was. Royal Ordnance has been touted, but I can't find proof of that.

Maybe Donk can throw more light on it. It's his speciality area.

Not much more info than ASP has already provided. Only 4 PPK pistols were provided to the Goldeneye production armourers from an external weapons importer although they may have been provided direct by Walther?. These 4 pistols with sequential serial numbers were reused on Tomorrow Never Dies when of course Bond also used the P99 of which just two pistols were provided to the production direct from Walther which were also reused on TWINE and Die Another Day. These two P99 pistols like the 4 PPK pistols are the rarest of all the factory variants although to the untrained eye perhaps all early issue P99 pistols appear identical? One of the four Brosnan PPK pistols and one of the two Brosnan P99 pistols were auctioned by the production armourers at Christies back in 2006 where the PPK with silencer achieved £26k and the P99 achieved just £5k-{

SimonTemplar

There are date on ammo chamber too but not all the time. Did the ones DC use in Skyfall has date on the chamber or just serial number (do you have the serial number)?

PPK 7.65mm

@ SimonTemplar Not sure about the Walther PPK used in QOS, but I do know that the PPK's used in both Thunderball and Licence To Kill were ones that were manufactured during World War II since they both have the distinctive "Bulldog nose" of a wartime manufactured PPK along with a lanyard ring behind the magazine floor plate, and smaller rear sight. I would imagine these must go for a strong sum of money depending on the condition of said pistol.

Asp9mm

SimonTemplar wrote:

There are date on ammo chamber too but not all the time. Did the ones DC use in Skyfall has date on the chamber or just serial number (do you have the serial number)?

It has no date stamp, just serial number. I can't really provide the serial number any further than 141XXX for obvious reasons.

Asp9mm

PPK 7.65mm wrote:

@ SimonTemplar Not sure about the Walther PPK used in QOS, but I do know that the PPK's used in both Thunderball and Licence To Kill were ones that were manufactured during World War II since they both have the distinctive "Bulldog nose" of a wartime manufactured PPK along with a lanyard ring behind the magazine floor plate, and smaller rear sight. I would imagine these must go for a strong sum of money depending on the condition of said pistol.

Not true for Licence to Kill. Don't believe anything from Stembridge and those silly auctions. None of those were screen used. The Thunderball one was only seen when it falls off the roof. The rest were ULM made. ALL of LTK's PPK's were ULM made. You only need to watch the film to see that. It's annoying that those fakes are still passing as screen used.

Don't know what you mean about the lanyard ring. Post 1945 PPK's have these too. ULM and Manhurin made.

SimonTemplar

Asp9mm wrote:

It has no date stamp, just serial number. I can't really provide the serial number any further than 141XXX for obvious reasons.

My 62 is 154XXX so they must have made quite a few

BTW can you tell what year Walther with serial 118XXX ?

Asp9mm

walther p99

Asp9mm wrote:

Not really rare. His 1962 SKYFALL London one is much more scarce, but only for the date of manufacture, they made them for years exactly the same and it's only the serial number that confirms the date, so apart from that looks identical to ones made a few years before and after.

did they specifically want a 1962 walther for SF?

SimonTemplar

Thanks Asp for the list. Looks like mine is registered towards the end of 1962.

I'm guessing they wanted a 1962 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the franchise. Going by the serial no 141XXX it would indicate the gun was registered earlier in the year possibly mid to late January around the time Dr No commenced filming. If it is true then they have done it for nostalgic reason.

Asp9mm

walther p99 wrote:

did they specifically want a 1962 walther for SF?

Apparently, yes. There were quite a few 1962 items in there.

SimonTemplar

This one is actually dated to August 62 so mine is earlier

SimonTemplar

Asp, according to your list serial 141XXX makes it 1961. A 151XXX would make it 1962.
Here is a 1961 Walther serial 148359
http://www.warstuff.com/Cold-War-Era-1961-German-Walther-PPK-765-mm-Sem-i1556788.htm

Asp9mm

The serial number fixture isn't that easy and doesn't run consecutively in batches. So a higher serial number for that factory batch doesn't necessarily mean a later date. It's a rough guide really. There's about a three/four year accuracy window unless it's been specifically stamped with the date. Remember they were being made in Germany and France and then sent to ULM for final approval.

SimonTemplar

I see but all very confusing. How did you manage to determine the exact date especially the Skyfall Walther when it does not have a date. Maybe some other record?

Mine has "Vandrey, Hamburg" on the frame, is that German made?

Asp9mm

The armourer that sourced it for the production gave us this information.

Do you have a shot of the frame. German ones are stamped ULM.

SimonTemplar

Yes it has the ULM stamp on the chamber but I was told all PPK were made in France until the 80s. I need to go home to take the picture.
This 1968 has serial 131212 which if going by the list suggest 1958-61 that is anywhere between 7-10 years out


Not sure how they got their serial number to correspond with the year. Could it be some parts or all of it were manufactured years ago and given a serial number of that time and when it finally registered they put a stamp the year it was released?

Asp9mm

It should be stamped on the slide.

As I said, there is no hard and fast rule in regard to serial numbers, more an approximation. The slide may have been made at a different date to the frame.

sniperUK

Asp9mm wrote:

Probably the rarest is the Brosnan GE and TND versions that had a parkerised finish. I've only seen three and two of those were the screen used ones. Walther only seemed to have made one small batch in the mid 90's. Must have been for a military contract, but try as I might, I can't find any info on who that was. Royal Ordnance has been touted, but I can't find proof of that.

Maybe Donk can throw more light on it. It's his speciality area.

One of the guys at the club has a parkerised PP, first time I have seen one, really prefer the blued finish myself.

sniperUK

My PPK is 136XXX so earlier than 62, no date on the chamber though my sons Prison Service issue PP is ,dated 74, I think this is when they were brought in for the RUC/ NIPS.

PPK 7.65mm

Asp9mm wrote:

PPK 7.65mm wrote:

@ SimonTemplar Not sure about the Walther PPK used in QOS, but I do know that the PPK's used in both Thunderball and Licence To Kill were ones that were manufactured during World War II since they both have the distinctive "Bulldog nose" of a wartime manufactured PPK along with a lanyard ring behind the magazine floor plate, and smaller rear sight. I would imagine these must go for a strong sum of money depending on the condition of said pistol.

Not true for Licence to Kill. Don't believe anything from Stembridge and those silly auctions. None of those were screen used. The Thunderball one was only seen when it falls off the roof. The rest were ULM made. ALL of LTK's PPK's were ULM made. You only need to watch the film to see that. It's annoying that those fakes are still passing as screen used.

Don't know what you mean about the lanyard ring. Post 1945 PPK's have these too. ULM and Manhurin made.

@ASP 9mm Thank you for the information. As for the lanyard ring(going from my own limited knowledge of Walther branded firearms.) I just assumed at some point these were deleted since many of the post 1945 pistols I have seen, all lack them. Once again, I knew that could count on you ASP 9mm. #Good to have you here on the boards.

It is rather sad that more former Stembridge Gun Rentals employees, do not know the right information on the LTK PPK's. However seeing as those were loaned from Bapty, I can understand why the occasional mistakes are made. Even in the book The Making Of Licence To Kill by Sally Hibben, their are a few misquotes in the section where armorer Harris Berman is interviewed. It just goes to show you, that these experts are human beings too.