Pros and Cons: License to Kill

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    No not tired, I thought it was a very interesting and exciting scrip idea. -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Bond BluRay Marathon.

    Pros:

    - Title song is different, but certainly a power-ballad.
    - Getting onto Wavecrest, scene with Lupe and stealing the plane, water-skiing action sequence.
    - Bar-fight. Hilarious.
    - First romance with Pam, nice scene.
    - "Isthmus City" location, money deposit, casino scenes.
    - Meeting Sanchez, staying at Sanchez's house.
    - Having Q as a field operative.
    - Harbour scene, blowing up of Krest.
    - Entire finale.
    - Krest - disgustingly brilliant.
    - Dario, Truman-Lodge, Professor, Heller - all great supporting cast.
    - Robert Davi as Sanchez is awesome, a truly great villain of the series.
    - Explosions.
    - Stuntwork, especially how Dalton gets involved.
    - Kamen's score adds a different dimension to the film - like Conti's does to FYEO.
    - Finale is lovely so too is "If you Asked Me Too"
    - Plot is interesting, and the layers are good (stingers etc.).
    - Lupe is beautiful.
    - Pam is too and a great Bond girl.
    - James Bond theme from the bullets on the tanker.
    - Dalton's performance.
    - After the resignation scene at Hemingway house, the film gets better and better with every scene. I didn't want it to end.

    Cons:

    - The first 40-50 minutes. From PTS to Bond's resignation feels like they're from a TV movie. They're cheap, sometimes poorly acted and at times darker than what eventuates in the film - they also feel more like an American production than a British one. I hate the slow-mo scene in the PTS, the over-dubbed voices and sound-effects in Sanchez's arrest and Killifer belongs on Miami Vice. I find the start of the movie gets worse each time I watch it.
    - David Hedison as Leiter. Nice that they brought him back from LALD, but I don't like the way this guy acts.
    - The gadgets look dated.
    - While it contributes well the fooling Sanchez further, the Hong Kong Narcotics reveal and the "rogue-agent" guy feels like the TV movie parts again.
    - M.
    - Is Sanchez sucked in by Bond a little too easily? I would've thought he'd be far more suspicious.

    BluRay:

    Clear and good looking. Not overly different than original transfers.

    Overall:

    LTK is interesting. It starts off very dark - the death of Della, shark-attack on Leiter and killing of Sharky. Then it almost jumps into a light-hearted action flick with dark-comedy elements. Sanchez is a wise-cracking greaseball, Krest is a bumbling drunk, Lodge is a neurotic accountant, Dario is OTT and the Professor is great phoney. They have a hilarious bar-fight and there's one-liners a plenty, smiling beautiful woman, jealously and jokes with Q!

    That's what I love about LTK....But IMO they failed to make a fully dark picture that sustains a consistent feeling all the way through. IMO after the first 40 or so, the film becomes more solid, more entertaining and the story sucks you in. It drops the cheap looking and overly dark beginning into a very good Bond film that gets better and better as it continues along.

    I'd rate it higher if I felt this was a more complete film.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • CoolHandBondCoolHandBond Mactan IslandPosts: 7,166MI6 Agent
    So onto LTK in my revisiting of the series - last seen under a year ago as it's one of my favourites.

    Pros:

    Gunbarrel - PTS - Titles - Theme Song
    Direction - Music
    Bond - Sanchez - Pam - Lupe - Dario - Killifer - Heller - Krest - M
    Leiter being tortured
    Hemingway House scenes
    Bar fight
    Krest being killed
    Laboratory scenes
    Tanker chase
    Sanchez finale

    Cons:
    Leiter seems rather happy at the end.
    Too little of Moneypenny.

    Observations:
    Bond goes rogue for the first time since the end of OHMSS. David Hedison returns as Felix Leiter.

    Conclusion:
    Dalton gives one of the finest performances as Bond in the entire series. It really is a crying shame that we are deprived of any more Dalton-Bond. Glen's direction is assured - Michael Kamen's score is superb certainly the best since DAF. The casting is strong with several standout performances - best casting since OHMSS. Taliso Soto has been unfairly criticized in some quarters as being wooden I think she gives a good performance and is very easy on the eye. I like the change of pace from the usual megalomaniac plot. This is the Bond of Fleming transferred to the big screen. Every time I see this the better it gets which is unusual for me and it will end up high in both my old and new rankings.
    Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Taliso Soto has been unfairly criticized in some quarters as being wooden I think she gives a good performance and is very easy on the eye.

    I agree, I do think she delivers a good performance. She's not supposed to be a nobel prize winner, she's a drug-lord's girlfriend who needs a man like Bond to come along.

    She's so beautiful!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • DaleDale Posts: 12MI6 Agent
    Watched this yesterday on ITV.

    It's always been one of my favourite Bond's - probably because as a kid, it was the most voilent and I remember whn I got the box set it was the one with the 15 ratting that I just HAD to watch first :))

    I've never felt that it was not 'Bondian' enough. A bit more grittier for sure, but all the Bond elements were there in my opinion.

    The villain with a visually quirky feature even if this time it was an iguana.

    A scene in a casino

    The lorry wheelies and various stunts

    I love the way Dalton delivers 'Miss Kennedy, would you get a vodka martini please, SHAKEN not stirred'

    M, Moneypenny and ofcourse Q in his biggest and best role in the series. Two rather touching moments stand out - the scene when q says 'Yes Sir' to Bond and the bit where Bond walks off and leaves Pam and Q. Notice that Q looks back as if he is concerned about what will happen to 007.

    There are also references to Bond's past including a Tracy mention, David Hedison's return for Lighter's biggest role in the series and a uniquely dark scene between Bond and M. Never understood why there were so many cats there though!!

    I loved the death scene in the de-pressuriser, the shark torture and Sanchez's detah scene - all by far the most terrifying and brutal scenes in the series.

    I LOVE the scene between Bond and Sanchez upstairs in the casino and pretty much every scene they are in together. Two great actors lighting up the screen.

    Dalton is a terrific actor. I always thought though that he didn't look like the traditional Bond in this film. His clothes, hair and general presence. But I always liked the vulnerability he portrays. Take the scene where he finds Della. Not only does he rush in without properly checking the room and goes straight for her but his voice is less authoritative than normal and it's the first time Bond has ever (perhaps since OHMSS anyway) shown real, raw emotions.

    I do agree that some of the sets do look cheap and some of those explosions inside the drug house are pretty poor. The PTS is okay but has nothing on TLD. I always found the scene when Pam jumps into the water with Bond on the boat a bit silly. Surely they'd have heard the splash!

    But apart from a few niggles this is and always will be one of my favs. Long before Craig was named as the 'hard edged' Bond, Dalton did a much better job at it. Unfortunately he was before his time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Dale wrote:
    a uniquely dark scene between Bond and M. Never understood why there were so many cats there though!!
    That was shot at Hemingway House, notorious for being a home to scores of cats then & now. Ernest Hemingway also wrote the famous novel "A Farewell To Arms" there, I believe.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    One of the greatest things IMO about LTK is Pam Bouvier. Brilliantly played by the gorgeous Carey Lowell.

    Without her, I think Dalton's performance would be marred by being too brassed off, rough and dull. She ensures that the warmth is brought out. Similar in a way to Kara in TLD - although Tim's performance here is much more balanced and warm.

    I think Dalton acts extremely well in LTK - but I don't like his portrayal.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    I think Dalton acts extremely well in LTK - but I don't like his portrayal.
    Tim can do no wrong IMHO.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • DaleDale Posts: 12MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Dale wrote:
    a uniquely dark scene between Bond and M. Never understood why there were so many cats there though!!
    That was shot at Hemingway House, notorious for being a home to scores of cats then & now. Ernest Hemingway also wrote the famous novel "A Farewell To Arms" there, I believe.

    Ahh i see! That explains it!

    My only problem with Tim is that he goes way over the top at times, as if he is on stage. I know the actor was from that background.

    Examples - in the lift when he cocks the gun on his way to see 'Uncle Q' and when he's shouting at the men in PTS to 'come on, come on'

    His laugh is also very sinister in parts. He didn't go for the hero approach. He went for what was written in the books and that's why I think it's harder to relate with Dalton's Bond visually.

    But for me, there is loads that Dalton does right. I actually thinks he handles some of the lighter moments well in this. His wry smiles to Pam Bouvier, his interaction with Q and some of the lighter scenes in the bar.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Dale wrote:
    My only problem with Tim is that he goes way over the top at times, as if he is on stage. I know the actor was from that background.
    Examples - in the lift when he cocks the gun on his way to see 'Uncle Q' and when he's shouting at the men in PTS to 'come on, come on'
    His laugh is also very sinister in parts. He didn't go for the hero approach. He went for what was written in the books and that's why I think it's harder to relate with Dalton's Bond visually.
    But for me, there is loads that Dalton does right. I actually thinks he handles some of the lighter moments well in this. His wry smiles to Pam Bouvier, his interaction with Q and some of the lighter scenes in the bar.

    100% agree, and that's what I was trying to get across in my above comments. You're right that he gets the lighter moments bang on, and I think the Pam Bouvier character helps him achieve this. The chemistry is good, and Dalton is more relaxed.

    I think his sinister/angry tone is better handled in TLD because it's more balanced - in particular the Saunders scenes. In LTK he isn't sexy, and isn't overly charming - he just comes across as a blandly angry.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    I think his sinister/angry tone is better handled in TLD because it's more balanced - in particular the Saunders scenes. In LTK he isn't sexy, and isn't overly charming - he just comes across as a blandly angry.
    As is befitting the subject matter IMHO.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    As is befitting the subject matter IMHO.

    I don't disagree with that :) I appreciate the intentions of the film, and enjoy the different, "gritty" portrayal. However, I am not sold on his performance because even if Bond is violent, or horrible, angry etc. he should be egotistical and charming while doing so.

    Something that is played brilliantly between Bond and Vesper in CR.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    if Bond is violent, or horrible, angry etc. he should be egotistical and charming while doing so.
    "Why don't you wait 'till you're asked?"
    :v
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    edited April 2016
    chrisisall wrote:
    if Bond is violent, or horrible, angry etc. he should be egotistical and charming while doing so.
    "Why don't you wait 'till you're asked?"
    :v

    Love that scene! -{ That's why I highlighted above my point about Pam's character making his portrayal more balanced!

    I still maintain that Dalton's performance, while good, is not totally there for me. I understand what he's trying to do, but IMO I just don't feel or get involved with his level of hate and sadness, and I think this is down to Dalton's portrayal failing to convince me of this.

    Don't get me wrong, I admire and enjoy the film, I rate it higher than Goldfinger! I just have my criticisms about it, and it's one of the few films where I am not a fan of Bond within it. But hey, perhaps that's what the point of the film is.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    I admire and enjoy the film, I rate it higher than Goldfinger!
    I rate it higher than Goldfinger too, but it's because of Tim's fine performance; Goldfinger is actually the better all around film IMO.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,306MI6 Agent
    I think LTK is a fine movie. A good story and a great performance by Dalton. If they had a higher budget (perhaps include a trip to Thailand to meet Pam and not just a seaside bar?) and a more visionary directorand DoP for a more interesting shooting style LTK could have been one of the best Bonds. At that time Ridley Scott made Black Rain and Thelma & Louise. I wonder what his version would have been?
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,306MI6 Agent
    Let me put it this way. would any of you like to see this movie:

    License To Kill (1989)

    Directed by: Ridley Scott

    Title Song: U2

    Cast:

    Bond - Timothy Dalton
    Pam Bouvier - Geena Davis
    Franchez - Robert Davi
    Lupe - Madeline Stowe (or Robin Givens)
    etc.
  • MarcAngeDracoMarcAngeDraco Piz GloriaPosts: 564MI6 Agent

    And don't get me started on the directing in FYEO, although it seems I'm in the minority on that one.

    I'd be very interested to read more about this if you have the time!
    Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Licence To Kill sucked.
    It looked like Miami Vice, it sounded like Die Hard, the vehicle stuntwork was out a Smoky & The Bandit flick, the main villain reminded me of a bad guy in The Goonies, the actresses looked like Three's Company sitcom rejects, the wardrobe was recycled wrinkled junk from American Gigolo, and the hair stylist was clearly drunk during the shoot.
    What a waste.
    Of money.

    Why oh why is it my second favourite Bond film? I must be mental. :v
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • ToTheRightToTheRight Posts: 314MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Licence To Kill sucked.
    It looked like Miami Vice, it sounded like Die Hard, the vehicle stuntwork was out a Smoky & The Bandit flick, the main villain reminded me of a bad guy in The Goonies, the actresses looked like Three's Company sitcom rejects, the wardrobe was recycled wrinkled junk from American Gigolo, and the hair stylist was clearly drunk during the shoot.
    What a waste.
    Of money.

    Why oh why is it my second favourite Bond film? I must be mental. :v

    Great post! Despite it's flaws it's one of my favorites too.

    I always thought the US poster (Dalton posing a'la Craig's GB in front of the explosion with the photo of Pam and Lupe pasted over him) made Tim look like Hunter's Fred Dryer.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,306MI6 Agent
    Number24 wrote:
    Let me put it this way. would any of you like to see this movie:

    License To Kill (1989)

    Directed by: Ridley Scott

    Title Song: U2

    Cast:

    Bond - Timothy Dalton
    Pam Bouvier - Geena Davis
    Franchez - Robert Davi
    Lupe - Madeline Stowe (or Robin Givens)
    etc.

    But ... but .. I wanted attention for this post! ;%
    Even negativce posts would be good, but if anyone likes it it would be great :D
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,755MI6 Agent
    When I first went to see LTK in its opening week, as soon as I walked into the theater I knew something was amiss. The film was being shown in one of the multiplexe's smaller auditoriums. The theater was not full (unlike for TLD) and to make matters worst, the screen was not masked properly for 'scope and there were intermitant focus and sound problems. Not the best way to see a Bond film but I did like the film despite the distractions and less than stellar presentation. A couple weeks later I saw the film at another venue with excellent projection, sound and while not the largest screen at least it was properly masked for the 2.40 to 1 scope aspect ratio of the film and was able to appreciate the film much more the second time around. As so eloquently put by chrisisall, the film has its flaws but IMO the sum of its parts works very well. I rate Dalton very high as Bond in both his films and look at LTK as just being ahead of its time and a huge miscalculation on the part of EON and MGM releasing it in the summer where it was forced to go head to head with Batman, Indiana Jones, and Lethal Weapon. A more traditional late fall release and a better promotional campaign may have made a difference. For me LTK has actually aged well, even better than TLD. In many ways, it was a Craig era Bond before the Craig era.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight Posts: 314MI6 Agent
    LTK's publicity was horrible. Not only scrapping an entire campaign due to the last minute title change, but there was very little advertisement, only a few TV spots, and only a couple new Bond film books out. Little magazine coverage as well. All which would be remedied by GoldenEye and especially Tomorrow Never Dies. I doubt even a fall release would have helped LTK with the publicity it got. It just wasn't an event (except to us hardcore Bond/Dalton fans). At least with the newer films they manage to make an event out of each new release.
    Still I have a soft spot for Licence as I certainly felt like the only one supporting it and Dalton at the time. In the 11 screenings I saw at the cinema the auditoriums was usually near empty. Opening day matinee it was about half full. But at least those in the audience were very vocal: cheered during the waterski sequence and truck chase. Laughed at all of Q's jokes and Davi's one-liners.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    ToTheRight wrote:
    LTK's publicity was horrible. Not only scrapping an entire campaign due to the last minute title change, but there was very little advertisement, only a few TV spots, and only a couple new Bond film books out. Little magazine coverage as well. All which would be remedied by GoldenEye and especially Tomorrow Never Dies. I doubt even a fall release would have helped LTK with the publicity it got. It just wasn't an event (except to us hardcore Bond/Dalton fans). At least with the newer films they manage to make an event out of each new release.
    Still I have a soft spot for Licence as I certainly felt like the only one supporting it and Dalton at the time. In the 11 screenings I saw at the cinema the auditoriums was usually near empty. Opening day matinee it was about half full. But at least those in the audience were very vocal: cheered during the waterski sequence and truck chase. Laughed at all of Q's jokes and Davi's one-liners.
    I sadly plead guilty to only seeing it once upon release back then- I was obsessed with Batman & Indy.... :#
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    .... but those rumours were never substantiated. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    chrisisall wrote:
    Licence To Kill sucked.
    .
    .
    .

    What a waste Of money.

    Why oh why is it my second favourite Bond film? I must be mental. :v

    Yep! :D
    Yep! :D

    and YEP! :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • HowardBHowardB USAPosts: 2,755MI6 Agent
    As much as I like LTK, the comic relief with "Q" out in the field seemed a bit out of place. However, the humorous stuff with Wayne Newton was actually quite good IMO and fit the film.
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    HowardB wrote:
    As much as I like LTK, the comic relief with "Q" out in the field seemed a bit out of place. However, the humorous stuff with Wayne Newton was actually quite good IMO and fit the film.

    It's an interesting film no-doubt. The first half is very dark, but the 2nd half is very light - all starting with the bar fight. Personally, I like that about the film, but it does add to the confused nature of it.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    Higgins wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Licence To Kill sucked.
    .
    .
    .

    What a waste Of money.

    Why oh why is it my second favourite Bond film? I must be mental. :v

    Yep! :D
    Yep! :D

    and YEP! :D
    I handed you that on a platter. Thank me.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited April 2016
    Yes, without that I'd never be able to score :D
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
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