Pros:
- It's a very colourful looking film; India looks great.
- I enjoyed the circus- not so much Bond dressing up as a clown but I think it adds something different; a sort of counter-suspense to the bomb's coutdown.
- Louis Jourdan is a good villain and I really liked Stephen Berkoff as a villain as well. He isn't the most memorable outside of the film but in what is a mainly comic film, he adds a degree of politics.
- I liked the Faberge egg; added some glamour to the plot although that was soon done away with!
- Loved Octopussy's girls fighting the men
Cons:
- Numerous cringe-moments which you have to remind yourself were 'part of the era'
- I think they could have had some Indian actresses in a more visible role; it's not like the film is set in Colonial India.
- Hollywood racism at its laziest as the very obviously French Louis Jourdan is playing an Indian man.
- I find the settings a bit muddled; India didn't seem to fit naturally as a location.
- Very dated theme song that has nothing to do with the film. Seeing as it's predominantly comic, I feel that a 'bigger' song was needed.
- Roger Moore looks ancient; he's barely getting away with his romancing of the girls here. The comedy does conceal the feebleness of his action seeing as it's done for comic effect; the worst parts in For Your Eyes Only was when he was doing something simple like running, his age showed.
The film has its moments but then it also has...moments. Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown but the film doesn't come together as nicely as some of the others.
I think the title Octopussy f***ed it over because no one in their right mind would make a song called that, so they had to go a safer route.
Obviously you couldn't have a song called Octopussy but you could have had a character song- lots of opportunities for imagery, her girls, her businesses...something like that would have helped it be more memorable rather than a generic song that could have been used on many of the Bond films.
Pros:
- It's a very colourful looking film; India looks great.
- I enjoyed the circus- not so much Bond dressing up as a clown but I think it adds something different; a sort of counter-suspense to the bomb's coutdown.
- Louis Jourdan is a good villain and I really liked Stephen Berkoff as a villain as well. He isn't the most memorable outside of the film but in what is a mainly comic film, he adds a degree of politics.
- I liked the Faberge egg; added some glamour to the plot although that was soon done away with!
- Loved Octopussy's girls fighting the men
Cons:
- Numerous cringe-moments which you have to remind yourself were 'part of the era'
- I think they could have had some Indian actresses in a more visible role; it's not like the film is set in Colonial India.
- Hollywood racism at its laziest as the very obviously French Louis Jourdan is playing an Indian man.
- I find the settings a bit muddled; India didn't seem to fit naturally as a location.
- Very dated theme song that has nothing to do with the film. Seeing as it's predominantly comic, I feel that a 'bigger' song was needed.
- Roger Moore looks ancient; he's barely getting away with his romancing of the girls here. The comedy does conceal the feebleness of his action seeing as it's done for comic effect; the worst parts in For Your Eyes Only was when he was doing something simple like running, his age showed.
The film has its moments but then it also has...moments. Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown but the film doesn't come together as nicely as some of the others.
I get the impression from this that you don't remember many things in the film. The movie is certainly not "predominantly comic". Do you mean "Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown" literally? He's dressed as a clown, but he's not doing his usual clowning around in his clown costume. Apart from the gorilla suit, there's nothing comic at all about the German scenes. The whole German setting shows Moore portraying Bond at his most serious and his most sincere.
I get the impression from this that you don't remember many things in the film. The movie is certainly not "predominantly comic". Do you mean "Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown" literally? He's dressed as a clown, but he's not doing his usual clowning around in his clown costume. Apart from the gorilla suit, there's nothing comic at all about the German scenes. The whole German setting shows Moore portraying Bond at his most serious and his most sincere.
The film is still full of quips and not sardonic humour quips, just plain jokes. By 'playing to his strengths as a clown', I mean that he uses comedy and charm to distract from the fact that he looks old; because we don't need to believe he's a plausible action-man spy, you can buy him as a fantasy figure. The German scenes show Bond's sincerity as a patriot but I wouldn't say that they're serious in the sense of realistic or that they make him more plausible.
The clearly jokey elements (saying 'sit' to the tiger as a parody of Barbara Woodhouse; Octopussy's name; casting French Louis Jourdan as Afghan (made a mistake in my original post!) but with no attempt to conceal his French accent) overshadow the political German setting. It's an odd mixture- interesting but I think that it only makes sense as a Bond film, whereas many of the other films could stand as films on their own.
Octopussy was a pivotal film in the Bond series, which is not always appreciated thirty years later. Rather than just being another regular entry, it had to compete with Never Say Never Again and at the time this was perceived as a major threat- Sean Connery was returning to the role of James Bond, and the general opinion was that he would wipe the floor with Roger Moore.
Now, as we know this didn't happen. OP did beat NSNA at the box office, although both made gazillions of money. This partly explains why OP hedges its bets by being at once serious and funny, why it mostly follows FYEO's more grounded thrust while throwing in MR-style humour, and why it uses one of the most trusted Bond formulas so rigidly (the Faberge egg = gold in GF = diamonds in DAF leading 007 to a much bigger threat).
OP had the advantage of being able to use the regular home team (Q, Moneypenny), the gunbarrel and Bond Theme, etc, and proved that audiences enjoyed things the way they were. Its success was indisputable and caused AVTAK to be made by the same team.
Just watched this and I didn't think this could happen but my opinion on it has improved so that after 13 films OP sits at the top! Therefore it's looking likely to sit at number 2 after TLD when I finish my Bondathon.
Pros - Everything except...
Cons - The lines "That's my little Octopussy", Khan's "Octopussy....Octopussy", the title song, and I don't know what the plot is
Just watched this and I didn't think this could happen but my opinion on it has improved so that after 13 films OP sits at the top! Therefore it's looking likely to sit at number 2 after TLD when I finish my Bondathon.
Pros - Everything except...
Cons - The lines "That's my little Octopussy", Khan's "Octopussy....Octopussy", the title song, and I don't know what the plot is
The mark of a true Bond fan is enjoying the story for what is is. A jewellry heist mixed with nuclear weapons. Pretty straight forward...
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
They basically just updated the story, Jewellery sold to pay agents,
Turned to Jewellery being sold to pay for massive disruption in Europe.
and you get a circus thrown in too. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Orlov's plan is clear as it was explained in the meeting with the General's but no idea about the jewellery...something about smuggling it and Orlov trying to steal it. I lose track who has the real/fake one and why he has to buy. But love the film anyway
Orlov's plan is clear as it was explained in the meeting with the General's but no idea about the jewellery...something about smuggling it and Orlov trying to steal it. I lose track who has the real/fake one and why he has to buy. But love the film anyway
Your getting mixed up with the fake jewellry..
Orlov/Kamal have switched the real jewellry with fakes. This is removed from the circus and replaced with fakes. The real jewellry is in Orlovs car while the fake is aboard the circus. It is further complicated by the fake jewellry being replaced by an atom bomb.
It requires your attention during the train scenes.
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
So where does the fake jewellery end up? And what was the point of making the fakes? They were going to steal the real stuff and blow up the smuggling pipeline anyway.
What's Khan's role in all this? Help Octopussy smuggle the jewellery but double cross her and aid Orlov in his plan and split the profits of selling the real stuff?
The fake jewellery ends up in the Kremlin- we see Gogol lead an inspection team which discovers the fakes, and this leads him to pursue Orlov.
The point was to delay this discovery as long as possible.
"I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
"- That is something to be afraid of."
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
edited August 2015
General Orlov says to Prince Kamal Khan at one point in the film, "I get what I want and you get the genuine jewellery."
I thought that the high value of the real Kremlin jewellery was General Orlov's payoff to Prince Kamal Khan in return for the use of the cover of the Octopussy's Circus train unwittingly (at least to Octopussy and her troupe of female cult followers) bringing the atomic bomb onto the American Airforce Base in West Germany which is where Orlov wants it to stage his nuclear accident. This in turn will be blamed on the American Occupation Forces as the atomic bomb has the same yield as an American atomic bomb would have. There is no reference there to Khan and Orlov splitting the profits from selling the real jewellery. Orlov is not interested in money, only power by invading a supposedly defenceless Western Europe.
I've been meaning to write a clear blog article explaining these plot points on Octopussy. It's taken me a fair while to work it all out (at least I think I have!).
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
My best mate, who really likes modern Bond and finds the classics too dated to watch, believes OP to be an excellent action movie "it has it all" he says. Hence why OP is always the film I show people who haven't seen much pre-Brosnan.
OP gets so many things right, the humour is contagious and works and the serious aspects are really well blended. Roger Moore plays the role with the biggest level of comfort out of any performance - he's clearly having an awesome time. Unlike FYEO and AVTAK the more serious aspects demanded of him are pulled off brilliantly.
OP also doesn't trail off at any point, after the circus-bomb-defuse, you're still keen for more adventure - the plane sequence is absolutely outstanding. Like GF, even the slower aspects are a great watch particularly the Sotheby's scene.
Louis Jourdan turns in a great performance. He's a subdued oddball with some very peculiar mannerisms - he's almost like a more animated-dandy version of Dr. No. It's a shame he's not regarded more highly.
Something quite funny was when I recently showed my mates this film - they couldn't get over how many beautiful women are always in shot. I never really noticed this, but they...are...absolutely...everywhere {[]
I try and block out the tarzan thing 8-)
"This is for my brother!" "That's for 009." An awesome Bond film.
My best mate, who really likes modern Bond and finds the classics too dated to watch, believes OP to be an excellent action movie "it has it all" he says. Hence why OP is always the film I show people who haven't seen much pre-Brosnan.
OP gets so many things right, the humour is contagious and works and the serious aspects are really well blended. Roger Moore plays the role with the biggest level of comfort out of any performance - he's clearly having an awesome time. Unlike FYEO and AVTAK the more serious aspects demanded of him are pulled off brilliantly.
OP also doesn't trail off at any point, after the circus-bomb-defuse, you're still keen for more adventure - the plane sequence is absolutely outstanding. Like GF, even the slower aspects are a great watch particularly the Sotheby's scene.
Louis Jourdan turns in a great performance. He's a subdued oddball with some very peculiar mannerisms - he's almost like a more animated-dandy version of Dr. No. It's a shame he's not regarded more highly.
Something quite funny was when I recently showed my mates this film - they couldn't get over how many beautiful women are always in shot. I never really noticed this, but they...are...absolutely...everywhere {[]
I try and block out the tarzan thing 8-)
"This is for my brother!" "That's for 009." An awesome Bond film.
+999999999
It's non-stop from beginning to end. The only bit where it stalls a little is when Bond and Kamal arrive at the monsoon palace, about 1/3 of the way into the movie
In total agreement with all the positive comments for this film. Currently re-watching all the Bond films in preparation for SP, (not that I need any excuse to watch the films again). I didn't expect many changes to my rankings, after all I have watched these films a lot over the years, but when I watched OP I felt that I had underestimated it. It could even find itself in the hallowed ground of my top ten Bond films.
It looks great, it sounds great, Roger is on top form (and looks like he is having a blast), villains are all superb "double six", locations are fantastic, right blend of serious and humorous, best PTS of them all, love the auction scene "have you gone mad?", the whole train sequence - love it, the brilliantly tense circus scene is wonderful. It's a thrilling ride from beginning to end. -{
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Well...it's better than AVTAK
It's interesting to me that as many love this film as they do. Don't get me wrong; it has some excellent moments, but for me small elements (the Tarzan yell, the gadgetty golf cart thingie, the arrival of Bond and Q in a Union Flag balloon for the climax, and more than need mention here) wreck the tone for me. I much preferred NSNA that summer in the cinema.
That said, I still rewatch it occasionally and enjoy it for the most part. It is Bond, after all, and it serves as a snapshot in time for the franchise.
EDIT: My 10,000th post was about OP. Go figure! )
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
- It's a very colourful looking film; India looks great.
- I enjoyed the circus- not so much Bond dressing up as a clown but I think it adds something different; a sort of counter-suspense to the bomb's coutdown.
- Louis Jourdan is a good villain and I really liked Stephen Berkoff as a villain as well. He isn't the most memorable outside of the film but in what is a mainly comic film, he adds a degree of politics.
- I liked the Faberge egg; added some glamour to the plot although that was soon done away with!
- Loved Octopussy's girls fighting the men
Cons:
- Numerous cringe-moments which you have to remind yourself were 'part of the era'
- I think they could have had some Indian actresses in a more visible role; it's not like the film is set in Colonial India.
- Hollywood racism at its laziest as the very obviously French Louis Jourdan is playing an Indian man.
- I find the settings a bit muddled; India didn't seem to fit naturally as a location.
- Very dated theme song that has nothing to do with the film. Seeing as it's predominantly comic, I feel that a 'bigger' song was needed.
- Roger Moore looks ancient; he's barely getting away with his romancing of the girls here. The comedy does conceal the feebleness of his action seeing as it's done for comic effect; the worst parts in For Your Eyes Only was when he was doing something simple like running, his age showed.
The film has its moments but then it also has...moments. Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown but the film doesn't come together as nicely as some of the others.
Obviously you couldn't have a song called Octopussy but you could have had a character song- lots of opportunities for imagery, her girls, her businesses...something like that would have helped it be more memorable rather than a generic song that could have been used on many of the Bond films.
I get the impression from this that you don't remember many things in the film. The movie is certainly not "predominantly comic". Do you mean "Moore is playing to his strengths as a clown" literally? He's dressed as a clown, but he's not doing his usual clowning around in his clown costume. Apart from the gorilla suit, there's nothing comic at all about the German scenes. The whole German setting shows Moore portraying Bond at his most serious and his most sincere.
Cons - The Tarzan yell
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
The film is still full of quips and not sardonic humour quips, just plain jokes. By 'playing to his strengths as a clown', I mean that he uses comedy and charm to distract from the fact that he looks old; because we don't need to believe he's a plausible action-man spy, you can buy him as a fantasy figure. The German scenes show Bond's sincerity as a patriot but I wouldn't say that they're serious in the sense of realistic or that they make him more plausible.
The clearly jokey elements (saying 'sit' to the tiger as a parody of Barbara Woodhouse; Octopussy's name; casting French Louis Jourdan as Afghan (made a mistake in my original post!) but with no attempt to conceal his French accent) overshadow the political German setting. It's an odd mixture- interesting but I think that it only makes sense as a Bond film, whereas many of the other films could stand as films on their own.
Now, as we know this didn't happen. OP did beat NSNA at the box office, although both made gazillions of money. This partly explains why OP hedges its bets by being at once serious and funny, why it mostly follows FYEO's more grounded thrust while throwing in MR-style humour, and why it uses one of the most trusted Bond formulas so rigidly (the Faberge egg = gold in GF = diamonds in DAF leading 007 to a much bigger threat).
OP had the advantage of being able to use the regular home team (Q, Moneypenny), the gunbarrel and Bond Theme, etc, and proved that audiences enjoyed things the way they were. Its success was indisputable and caused AVTAK to be made by the same team.
Wish that you could do a similar review on the Dalton movies - and don't expect me to agree with it :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Pros - Everything except...
Cons - The lines "That's my little Octopussy", Khan's "Octopussy....Octopussy", the title song, and I don't know what the plot is
Did you miss the scene where General Orlov explains his plan?
The mark of a true Bond fan is enjoying the story for what is is. A jewellry heist mixed with nuclear weapons. Pretty straight forward...
Turned to Jewellery being sold to pay for massive disruption in Europe.
and you get a circus thrown in too.
It with fakes ( so no one will notice).
Your getting mixed up with the fake jewellry..
Orlov/Kamal have switched the real jewellry with fakes. This is removed from the circus and replaced with fakes. The real jewellry is in Orlovs car while the fake is aboard the circus. It is further complicated by the fake jewellry being replaced by an atom bomb.
It requires your attention during the train scenes.
What's Khan's role in all this? Help Octopussy smuggle the jewellery but double cross her and aid Orlov in his plan and split the profits of selling the real stuff?
The point was to delay this discovery as long as possible.
And yes, that's about right re KK.
"- That is something to be afraid of."
I thought that the high value of the real Kremlin jewellery was General Orlov's payoff to Prince Kamal Khan in return for the use of the cover of the Octopussy's Circus train unwittingly (at least to Octopussy and her troupe of female cult followers) bringing the atomic bomb onto the American Airforce Base in West Germany which is where Orlov wants it to stage his nuclear accident. This in turn will be blamed on the American Occupation Forces as the atomic bomb has the same yield as an American atomic bomb would have. There is no reference there to Khan and Orlov splitting the profits from selling the real jewellery. Orlov is not interested in money, only power by invading a supposedly defenceless Western Europe.
I've been meaning to write a clear blog article explaining these plot points on Octopussy. It's taken me a fair while to work it all out (at least I think I have!).
Seriously?
It clears up most of the plot points, but in this case the plot doesn't matter. I love every minute of this movie
OP gets so many things right, the humour is contagious and works and the serious aspects are really well blended. Roger Moore plays the role with the biggest level of comfort out of any performance - he's clearly having an awesome time. Unlike FYEO and AVTAK the more serious aspects demanded of him are pulled off brilliantly.
OP also doesn't trail off at any point, after the circus-bomb-defuse, you're still keen for more adventure - the plane sequence is absolutely outstanding. Like GF, even the slower aspects are a great watch particularly the Sotheby's scene.
Louis Jourdan turns in a great performance. He's a subdued oddball with some very peculiar mannerisms - he's almost like a more animated-dandy version of Dr. No. It's a shame he's not regarded more highly.
Something quite funny was when I recently showed my mates this film - they couldn't get over how many beautiful women are always in shot. I never really noticed this, but they...are...absolutely...everywhere {[]
I try and block out the tarzan thing 8-)
"This is for my brother!" "That's for 009." An awesome Bond film.
"Better make that two."
+999999999
It's non-stop from beginning to end. The only bit where it stalls a little is when Bond and Kamal arrive at the monsoon palace, about 1/3 of the way into the movie
"Better make that two."
It looks great, it sounds great, Roger is on top form (and looks like he is having a blast), villains are all superb "double six", locations are fantastic, right blend of serious and humorous, best PTS of them all, love the auction scene "have you gone mad?", the whole train sequence - love it, the brilliantly tense circus scene is wonderful. It's a thrilling ride from beginning to end. -{
It's interesting to me that as many love this film as they do. Don't get me wrong; it has some excellent moments, but for me small elements (the Tarzan yell, the gadgetty golf cart thingie, the arrival of Bond and Q in a Union Flag balloon for the climax, and more than need mention here) wreck the tone for me. I much preferred NSNA that summer in the cinema.
That said, I still rewatch it occasionally and enjoy it for the most part. It is Bond, after all, and it serves as a snapshot in time for the franchise.
EDIT: My 10,000th post was about OP. Go figure!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It could have been worse Loeffelholz - it could have been about AVTAK