I just caught TWINE on television. Here's what ran though my head while watching:
For some reason, no matter what attitude I take, I cannot get the feeling out of my head that when I'm watching Brosnan in any of his Bond entries, I feel like I'm seeing Brosnan playing James Bond rather than seeing the character. It's the same feeling I got while watching Moore. I don't feel this when watching Dalton or Craig. I don't know if it's because I wasn't familiar with them before and/or they just seemed to bury themselves enough in the character that I don't notice the actor. It may be the familiarity factor, since I watched Moore and Brosnan years before they played Bond.
The story does play like a Fleming story except for one thing: Fleming's villains were never sympathetic, pathetic people like Renard. They were basically egotistical, sadistic, cruel criminals who you were glad to see die horrible deaths at the hands of Bond. That's one of the reasons Renard's character doesn't make a large impression in the gallery of Bond villains.
Q. I really enjoyed Desmond Llewelyn's portrayal in the role over the years, but after FRWL EON's writers insisted on making the scenes where he equips Bond into comic set pieces and as the series progressed they kept cranking up the comedy - then we got John Cleese. The other problem was they only had these scenes not just for the comic relief but to demonstrate exactly the tools Bond would be using later in the film. We wouldn't want any surprises or suspense would we?
Many of the action set pieces seemed to show Brosnan just running and jumping around explosions and gunfire (without any physical damage) for long sequences that seem like battle scenes from war movies (its amazing how these events take place and one never sees law enforcement make an appearance). I'm not saying there not exciting or well staged. I just noticed they seem to be too long and too over the top. It leaves me with the feeling that I'm just watching a lot of stunt work and pyrotechnics without any emotional impact. This includes the submarine scenes - they went on for just too long.
I also always thought that Elektra's death should have been at the end. A better bittersweet climax (like Vesper's in CR). Also, they should have ditched the Christmas Jones character and made it a man and he would have been killed somehow in the pipeline sequence. With Elektra being Bond's love interest (as well as the villain), another female character was totally unnecessary and only distracted and weakened the script. A male nuclear scientist would have been fine. It seemed as though EON just stuck her into the script to give Brosnan a Bond girl he could end up with at the closing credits.
In fact, I've played with these concepts in my head and even replaced Brosnan with Dalton or Craig in the scenes and it really raises the quality of the film for me. Sorry if my views don't exactly skew with some of you, but it's just how I feel. I do like TWINE - I just wish it could have been better - and it could have been.
Q.... they only had these scenes not just for the comic relief but to demonstrate exactly the tools Bond would be using later in the film. We wouldn't want any surprises or suspense would we?
This dates back at least as far as GF, and can be put at Cubby Broccoli's door. Guy Hamilton and Paul Dehn didn't want Q to show 007 any of the Aston Martin's gadgets bar the Homer, but Broccoli insisted they were shown- that way, the audience would know they were going to be used later and would be kept in antici....
From what I've heard about the new gadgets, the audience is not going to be in on what they are until they're used. I'm all for that.
+1 -{
That will be an entirely welcome change.
We've been surprised with gadgets many times, like with the Lotus in TSWLM, the Aston Martin in TLD and the Q Boat in TWINE. I think the explanation of the gadgets is often necessary. It gives more plausibility to when Bond uses them in the story. Now with the history of all the gadgets in Bond's cars, we don't need the explanation unless it's something completely absurd like the Vanquish/Vanish. What if Bond just made the Vanquish disappear without any prior explanation? We'd be thoroughly confused, and I think it's important we have the same knowledge Bond does. With the Lotus, it's obvious what has happened when it transforms underwater.
Yeah, I don't know, there's just something about it that doesn't quite fire on all cylinders and I can never completely pin down why. It has some really great moments: the PTS is really great, the ski scene, some of the emotional moments with Elektra, and the caviar factory are all great. But for whatever reason, blame on it Christmas Jones, the so-so dialogue, the weird pacing, it just doesn't add up to be a great or even semi-memorable Bond film. Then again, neither is TND really, though I think it is a bit better than TWINE. It's weird how the Brosnan era has kind of historically developed into THE frowned upon era when we look back.
I think people are being unnecessarily hard on Pierce. I mean now at the moment we have got two active threads on this forum that primarily consist of criticism about Pierce Brosnan and/or his films
which is quite frankly a real pity. A lot of people seem to forget Pierce merely played what was given to him. Simple.
Now onto TWINE:
TWINE is not just an eh film! It starts off with one of the greatest PTS sequences in Bond history followed by a good song IMO. Then follow some cool action scenes (ski, caviar)and in the end we get a cool finale in the sub. Whilst there are some great quotes worth mentioning: "I never miss" and "She's waiting for you".
So en resumé TWINE is a Bond movie that goes down easily and smoothly and is simply great.
And I don't really know what's peoples issue with the so-called flat dialogue? Maybe besides the Christmas pun right in the end I can't think of anything where I was like"OMG what did he say?total crap this film!" and I don't get why everybody is CONSTANTLY bullying Denise Richards?! She played the part well enough. If you want believability maybe the main Bond girl then should have been the guy who played Dr.Arkov
I'll close with what a fellow member once told me: a thread entitled like this is no way to respect and promote artistry |)
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
The entire film is devoid of any visual stimulus. Is it the oil theme that makes the film so black and white? QoS had a red herring oil theme and is rich in colour...
welcome to AJB, Bondage007 -{
a lot of people don't mention this aspect because they are not bothered by it or simply (like in my case) it isn't true.
the turkey pictures can't be compared IMO because the are taking place at different stages if the day.TWINE's Istanbul is taking place in the evening hence it is darker whereas SKYFALL is taking place at 3pm so in bright daylight.
Azetbaijan : they showed us the old oil fields because it fitted in with Elektra's background.
would make no sense to let Bond drive through a nice shiny town IMO
I find it a bit difficult to speak of QoS as a colourfull film because when I think of it all I can come up with is....sand.
whereas in TWINE you've got dark colours with the oil fields AND bright colours in the scenes in istanbul, the skiing sequence and of course London where you can even find a rainbow-coloured air balloon )
besides all that I originally wanted to add the following in my original post.
Everytime I watch this I get goosebumps because it is so suave and then I sort of become proud of being a Bond fan (if that doesn't sound too weird?!) )
so turn volume to the max and enjoy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JLRBdtsrbS0
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
I categorise it as one of those Bonds I never put on, but when I do.... I really enjoy it!!
Not sure on the running length but it does feel a tad too long maybe.
One things for sure - Elektra King is fantastic!! I find Robert C a bit of an odd fit in this movie for some reason, its kind of like he is not necessary or maybe trying too hard to be an iconic henchman. She's so good (and evil) that maybe they are both too much for the film, cant quite put my finger on it...
Superb PTS also (then again all the Brosnan films are strong in this area)
One thing that really helps TWINE for me is the excellent score. Apart from the Bond theme there are the title theme and "Only Myself to Blame" (which isn't used as a song in the film). The themes are both excellent and used to great effect throughout the score to give the film a very strong and cohesive musical identity.
I categorise it as one of those Bonds I never put on, but when I do.... I really enjoy it!!
Not sure on the running length but it does feel a tad too long maybe.
One things for sure - Elektra King is fantastic!! I find Robert C a bit of an odd fit in this movie for some reason, its kind of like he is not necessary or maybe trying too hard to be an iconic henchman. She's so good (and evil) that maybe they are both too much for the film, cant quite put my finger on it...
I like the relationship between them; I think they work well together as a sort of beauty and the beast.
I categorise it as one of those Bonds I never put on, but when I do.... I really enjoy it!!
Not sure on the running length but it does feel a tad too long maybe.
One things for sure - Elektra King is fantastic!! I find Robert C a bit of an odd fit in this movie for some reason, its kind of like he is not necessary or maybe trying too hard to be an iconic henchman. She's so good (and evil) that maybe they are both too much for the film, cant quite put my finger on it...
I like the relationship between them; I think they work well together as a sort of beauty and the beast.
I don't. i think their a mess. "Is James Bond better then me in bed" wails Renard as they are snuggled up in bed. The whole thing is ridiculous...
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
One thing that really helps TWINE for me is the excellent score. Apart from the Bond theme there are the title theme and "Only Myself to Blame" (which isn't used as a song in the film). The themes are both excellent and used to great effect throughout the score to give the film a very strong and cohesive musical identity.
I found both - but in particular the ski chase dull, slow, cheap and uninspired.
Look how well they can be done in OHMSS, TSWLM and FYEO!
OHMSS is better no doubt, the others are good aswell but I still love it.
FYEO had the advanage of a cool bond theme version playing and a bobsleigh track.
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
welcome to AJB, Bondage007 -{
a lot of people don't mention this aspect because they are not bothered by it or simply (like in my case) it isn't true.
the turkey pictures can't be compared IMO because the are taking place at different stages if the day.TWINE's Istanbul is taking place in the evening hence it is darker whereas SKYFALL is taking place at 3pm so in bright daylight.
Azetbaijan : they showed us the old oil fields because it fitted in with Elektra's background.
would make no sense to let Bond drive through a nice shiny town IMO
I find it a bit difficult to speak of QoS as a colourfull film because when I think of it all I can come up with is....sand.
whereas in TWINE you've got dark colours with the oil fields AND bright colours in the scenes in istanbul, the skiing sequence and of course London where you can even find a rainbow-coloured air balloon )
Thank you!
I do notice that the locations despite the producers making a big deal of it in press conferences, don't get much of a mention in reviews. but if you're going to spend the effort to shoot in a country, at least show the audience you went there! Bond spent a few minutes of screentime in Shanghai and at least we get some breathtaking aerial shots. We had a pleasant Bahamas shot in CR and TB, I don't see why they couldn't have done Bond driving through Azerbaijan in his BMW instead of the oilfields. Ok the film is about oil, show us that when he meets Elektra.
I don't believe we got a beautiful shot of Maiden's Tower which is essentially the villains lair. And it doesn't all take place at night. Anyway my point extends through the whole movie, except the PTS.
To be fair, I love GE but it suffers the same problems.
Anyway there's more problems with TWINE than the location shots.
I do miss how Arnold integrates the theme song into the movie. I hope we get that in Spectre
(BTW you have the highest ranking of DAD I have ever seen across three Bond forums and random internet rankings)
I don't see why they couldn't have done Bond driving through Azerbaijan in his BMW instead of the oilfields. Ok the film is about oil, show us that when he meets Elektra.
I think they didn't because it simply wouldn't have had any significance to the plot.They actually did show it when Bond meets Elektra, but the scene didn#t leave the cutting room
Anyway there's more problems with TWINE than the location shots.
Not if you ask me )
but anyway, aspects like that would not have any influence on my enjoyment of a movie.If the formula is being followed, I'm good to go. -{
(BTW you have the highest ranking of DAD I have ever seen across three Bond forums and random internet rankings)
yes DAD will always have a special place for me out of various reasons.one of them is that it was the first one in cinema.
I think a lot of people dislike it for some dumb reasons like seulement the tsunami surfing.
but anyway I wouldn't give to much on these internet rankings since they are mostly done by some editors that have no real connection to the James Bond universe so I always see them as an insult.
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
I do miss how Arnold integrates the theme song into the movie. I hope we get that in Spectre
Since Thomas Newman is scoring the film again, I think that's very unlikely. We may get a few hints of it like we did in Skyfall, but it's not likely that Newman wrote the title theme.
I don't. i think their a mess. "Is James Bond better then me in bed" wails Renard as they are snuggled up in bed. The whole thing is ridiculous...
But Renard's 'tragedy' (depending on how sorry you feel for him) is that he cannot feel anything so although he has Elektra he can never feel anything- similar perhaps to how she feels emotionally. He's alive but not really alive. As he is quite pathetic (though I think he is disturbing) he might not be as memorable a villain as others.
... though Renard isn't the villain of the film- Elektra is. Renard is the henchman. Elektra is a memorable villain. Since we're not supposed to be aware of this at the start, he's built up as the villain though ultimately doesn't pay off since the attention focuses on her (and her relationship with Bond, which is the emotional centre of the film).
Confusing and vague story, courtesy of poor exposition, just leaves you scratching your head wondering what the hell is going on instead of being caught up in the plot and being intrigued. When one does finally make sense what's going on it's far too late to care. Add to that the crap action sequences (the ski chase is diabolical), boring direction (Apted was all at sea with this one) and some of the dullest cinematography of the series (Adrian Biddle did far better work in his career) and you end up with yet another Brosnan misfire.
Brosnan's best performance as 007 and good work by Sophie Marceau can't save it. Richards is terrible but you already knew that. In fact Richards is the Jar Jar Binks of this film - blamed by many for its crappiness when actually she's one of the least of its problems.
TWINE is not just an eh film! It starts off with one of the greatest PTS sequences in Bond history followed by a good song IMO. Then follow some cool action scenes (ski, caviar)and in the end we get a cool finale in the sub. Whilst there are some great quotes worth mentioning: "I never miss" and "She's waiting for you".
So en resumé TWINE is a Bond movie that goes down easily and smoothly and is simply great.
And I don't really know what's peoples issue with the so-called flat dialogue? Maybe besides the Christmas pun right in the end I can't think of anything where I was like"OMG what did he say?total crap this film!" and I don't get why everybody is CONSTANTLY bullying Denise Richards?! She played the part well enough. If you want believability maybe the main Bond girl then should have been the guy who played Dr.Arkov
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
Comments
For some reason, no matter what attitude I take, I cannot get the feeling out of my head that when I'm watching Brosnan in any of his Bond entries, I feel like I'm seeing Brosnan playing James Bond rather than seeing the character. It's the same feeling I got while watching Moore. I don't feel this when watching Dalton or Craig. I don't know if it's because I wasn't familiar with them before and/or they just seemed to bury themselves enough in the character that I don't notice the actor. It may be the familiarity factor, since I watched Moore and Brosnan years before they played Bond.
The story does play like a Fleming story except for one thing: Fleming's villains were never sympathetic, pathetic people like Renard. They were basically egotistical, sadistic, cruel criminals who you were glad to see die horrible deaths at the hands of Bond. That's one of the reasons Renard's character doesn't make a large impression in the gallery of Bond villains.
Q. I really enjoyed Desmond Llewelyn's portrayal in the role over the years, but after FRWL EON's writers insisted on making the scenes where he equips Bond into comic set pieces and as the series progressed they kept cranking up the comedy - then we got John Cleese. The other problem was they only had these scenes not just for the comic relief but to demonstrate exactly the tools Bond would be using later in the film. We wouldn't want any surprises or suspense would we?
Many of the action set pieces seemed to show Brosnan just running and jumping around explosions and gunfire (without any physical damage) for long sequences that seem like battle scenes from war movies (its amazing how these events take place and one never sees law enforcement make an appearance). I'm not saying there not exciting or well staged. I just noticed they seem to be too long and too over the top. It leaves me with the feeling that I'm just watching a lot of stunt work and pyrotechnics without any emotional impact. This includes the submarine scenes - they went on for just too long.
I also always thought that Elektra's death should have been at the end. A better bittersweet climax (like Vesper's in CR). Also, they should have ditched the Christmas Jones character and made it a man and he would have been killed somehow in the pipeline sequence. With Elektra being Bond's love interest (as well as the villain), another female character was totally unnecessary and only distracted and weakened the script. A male nuclear scientist would have been fine. It seemed as though EON just stuck her into the script to give Brosnan a Bond girl he could end up with at the closing credits.
In fact, I've played with these concepts in my head and even replaced Brosnan with Dalton or Craig in the scenes and it really raises the quality of the film for me. Sorry if my views don't exactly skew with some of you, but it's just how I feel. I do like TWINE - I just wish it could have been better - and it could have been.
This dates back at least as far as GF, and can be put at Cubby Broccoli's door. Guy Hamilton and Paul Dehn didn't want Q to show 007 any of the Aston Martin's gadgets bar the Homer, but Broccoli insisted they were shown- that way, the audience would know they were going to be used later and would be kept in antici....
....pation, an old Hitchcock technique.
That will be an entirely welcome change.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
We've been surprised with gadgets many times, like with the Lotus in TSWLM, the Aston Martin in TLD and the Q Boat in TWINE. I think the explanation of the gadgets is often necessary. It gives more plausibility to when Bond uses them in the story. Now with the history of all the gadgets in Bond's cars, we don't need the explanation unless it's something completely absurd like the Vanquish/Vanish. What if Bond just made the Vanquish disappear without any prior explanation? We'd be thoroughly confused, and I think it's important we have the same knowledge Bond does. With the Lotus, it's obvious what has happened when it transforms underwater.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/wish-i-was-at-disneyland/id1202780413?mt=2
which is quite frankly a real pity. A lot of people seem to forget Pierce merely played what was given to him. Simple.
Now onto TWINE:
TWINE is not just an eh film! It starts off with one of the greatest PTS sequences in Bond history followed by a good song IMO. Then follow some cool action scenes (ski, caviar)and in the end we get a cool finale in the sub. Whilst there are some great quotes worth mentioning: "I never miss" and "She's waiting for you".
So en resumé TWINE is a Bond movie that goes down easily and smoothly and is simply great.
And I don't really know what's peoples issue with the so-called flat dialogue? Maybe besides the Christmas pun right in the end I can't think of anything where I was like"OMG what did he say?total crap this film!" and I don't get why everybody is CONSTANTLY bullying Denise Richards?! She played the part well enough. If you want believability maybe the main Bond girl then should have been the guy who played Dr.Arkov
I'll close with what a fellow member once told me: a thread entitled like this is no way to respect and promote artistry
This is Turkey in TWINE
http://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-World-is-not-Enough/images/The-World-is-not-Enough-0878.jpg
And this is Turkey in Skyfall:
http://i0.wp.com/www.caps.media/201/2-skyfall/full/skyfall-movie-screencaps.com-499.jpg
A national geographic pic of Azerbaijan
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/028/cache/azerbaijan_2835_600x450.jpg
Azerbaijan in TWINE
http://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-World-is-not-Enough/images/The-World-is-not-Enough-0311.jpg
The entire film is devoid of any visual stimulus. Is it the oil theme that makes the film so black and white? QoS had a red herring oil theme and is rich in colour...
a lot of people don't mention this aspect because they are not bothered by it or simply (like in my case) it isn't true.
the turkey pictures can't be compared IMO because the are taking place at different stages if the day.TWINE's Istanbul is taking place in the evening hence it is darker whereas SKYFALL is taking place at 3pm so in bright daylight.
Azetbaijan : they showed us the old oil fields because it fitted in with Elektra's background.
would make no sense to let Bond drive through a nice shiny town IMO
I find it a bit difficult to speak of QoS as a colourfull film because when I think of it all I can come up with is....sand.
whereas in TWINE you've got dark colours with the oil fields AND bright colours in the scenes in istanbul, the skiing sequence and of course London where you can even find a rainbow-coloured air balloon
besides all that I originally wanted to add the following in my original post.
Everytime I watch this I get goosebumps because it is so suave and then I sort of become proud of being a Bond fan (if that doesn't sound too weird?!)
so turn volume to the max and enjoy:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JLRBdtsrbS0
Not sure on the running length but it does feel a tad too long maybe.
One things for sure - Elektra King is fantastic!! I find Robert C a bit of an odd fit in this movie for some reason, its kind of like he is not necessary or maybe trying too hard to be an iconic henchman. She's so good (and evil) that maybe they are both too much for the film, cant quite put my finger on it...
Superb PTS also (then again all the Brosnan films are strong in this area)
Thats TWINE for you?
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I like the relationship between them; I think they work well together as a sort of beauty and the beast.
I don't. i think their a mess. "Is James Bond better then me in bed" wails Renard as they are snuggled up in bed. The whole thing is ridiculous...
Agreed 100%, Arnold does a great job here.
I found both - but in particular the ski chase dull, slow, cheap and uninspired.
Look how well they can be done in OHMSS, TSWLM and FYEO!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
OHMSS is better no doubt, the others are good aswell but I still love it.
FYEO had the advanage of a cool bond theme version playing and a bobsleigh track.
Thank you!
I do notice that the locations despite the producers making a big deal of it in press conferences, don't get much of a mention in reviews. but if you're going to spend the effort to shoot in a country, at least show the audience you went there! Bond spent a few minutes of screentime in Shanghai and at least we get some breathtaking aerial shots. We had a pleasant Bahamas shot in CR and TB, I don't see why they couldn't have done Bond driving through Azerbaijan in his BMW instead of the oilfields. Ok the film is about oil, show us that when he meets Elektra.
I don't believe we got a beautiful shot of Maiden's Tower which is essentially the villains lair. And it doesn't all take place at night. Anyway my point extends through the whole movie, except the PTS.
To be fair, I love GE but it suffers the same problems.
Anyway there's more problems with TWINE than the location shots.
I do miss how Arnold integrates the theme song into the movie. I hope we get that in Spectre
(BTW you have the highest ranking of DAD I have ever seen across three Bond forums and random internet rankings)
I think they didn't because it simply wouldn't have had any significance to the plot.They actually did show it when Bond meets Elektra, but the scene didn#t leave the cutting room
Not if you ask me
but anyway, aspects like that would not have any influence on my enjoyment of a movie.If the formula is being followed, I'm good to go. -{
yes DAD will always have a special place for me out of various reasons.one of them is that it was the first one in cinema.
I think a lot of people dislike it for some dumb reasons like seulement the tsunami surfing.
but anyway I wouldn't give to much on these internet rankings since they are mostly done by some editors that have no real connection to the James Bond universe so I always see them as an insult.
Since Thomas Newman is scoring the film again, I think that's very unlikely. We may get a few hints of it like we did in Skyfall, but it's not likely that Newman wrote the title theme.
But Renard's 'tragedy' (depending on how sorry you feel for him) is that he cannot feel anything so although he has Elektra he can never feel anything- similar perhaps to how she feels emotionally. He's alive but not really alive. As he is quite pathetic (though I think he is disturbing) he might not be as memorable a villain as others.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Brosnan's best performance as 007 and good work by Sophie Marceau can't save it. Richards is terrible but you already knew that. In fact Richards is the Jar Jar Binks of this film - blamed by many for its crappiness when actually she's one of the least of its problems.
TWINE is not just an eh film! It starts off with one of the greatest PTS sequences in Bond history followed by a good song IMO. Then follow some cool action scenes (ski, caviar)and in the end we get a cool finale in the sub. Whilst there are some great quotes worth mentioning: "I never miss" and "She's waiting for you".
So en resumé TWINE is a Bond movie that goes down easily and smoothly and is simply great.
And I don't really know what's peoples issue with the so-called flat dialogue? Maybe besides the Christmas pun right in the end I can't think of anything where I was like"OMG what did he say?total crap this film!" and I don't get why everybody is CONSTANTLY bullying Denise Richards?! She played the part well enough. If you want believability maybe the main Bond girl then should have been the guy who played Dr.Arkov