Does lack of Barry = lacking Bond for you?

chrisisall

For instance, LTK would be my favourite Bond if Barry had done the score.

Matt S

FYEO might have been my favourite Bond if Barry scored it. I still love Conti's score (the compositions are fantastic and they fit the action well) but it doesn't have the right mood. And that mood is something only Barry can do, though Arnold does a good job at copying it. TSWLM doesn't suffer as badly from the lack of Barry, but it sounds too dated at times. Hamlisch is a great composer, though, and I appreciate his music just as I do with Conti's. Kamen's score for LTK is also great, but it's not a Barry score. However, whilst Conti's score really takes away from the mood the film should have, I think Kamen's score is fairly neutral. A Barry score would have made LTK better, but Barry certainly had a good reason for not doing it (ruptured oesophagus). Even if Barry had scored LTK, I'd probably still like TLD better. A Barry score really would have helped GE, because Serra's score really kills the movie for me. I still wouldn't love GE with a Barry score, but it would have been a start. His score at that time for The Specialist was fantastic, and it's probably what GE would have sounded like if Barry scored it. I'm not sure if complaining for the lack of a Barry score in Skyfall would be fair since he died, but I'd say an Arnold score would have helped a little with making the music more interesting. Thomas Newman just wrote mood music without any thematic content. I find that quite boring, and that was never something Barry did. Every piece he wrote can stand alone as a piece of music.

Gassy Man

I never cared much for Michael Kamen's scores for any movie, but I'm not sure John Barry would have made the film all that much better.

In general, I've been pleased when composers other than Barry have done Bond scores, though Barry is far and away the best. The Goldeneye score was the first one done by someone other than Barry that I found offputting . . . elements of it aren't bad, but tonally, it just didn't sound like a Bond score. Kamen's effort came close in that regard, too, but he kept enough familiar Bond elements to make it work. I've not found either David Arnold or Thomas Newman to be remarkable, though given a choice between the two, I'd choose Arnold.

Thunderpussy

I find it very hard to judge as ( like many here ) because I've seen the films so
Many times, with the music being such an important part of the experience adding
So much to the atmosphere, that I doubt if I could imagine any other soundtrack.
Although I agree. GE is the weakest.

Barbel

And I agree with TP.

Absolutely_Cart

Barry skipped a number of films in the Connery/Moore era and I didn't find their soundtracks to be particularly lacking.

Also, I like Goldeneye's score because it's unique.

Silhouette Man

Yes, GE is definitely the weakest Bond film score to date. The music is all of the place in that one.

Matt S

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Barry skipped a number of films in the Connery/Moore era and I didn't find their soundtracks to be particularly lacking.

Also, I like Goldeneye's score because it's unique.

He didn't skip any of the Connery films, he only just wasn't hired to do all of Dr. No.

AlphaOmegaSin

Thunderpussy wrote:

I find it very hard to judge as ( like many here ) because I've seen the films so
Many times, with the music being such an important part of the experience adding
So much to the atmosphere, that I doubt if I could imagine any other soundtrack.
Although I agree. GE is the weakest.

Agreed {[]

But I've personally always liked the Soundtrack to GE -{

Matt S

Thunderpussy wrote:

I find it very hard to judge as ( like many here ) because I've seen the films so
Many times, with the music being such an important part of the experience adding
So much to the atmosphere, that I doubt if I could imagine any other soundtrack.
Although I agree. GE is the weakest.

As many times as I've seen TSWLM and FEYO, I still think they would have been better with a Barry score. The music in those films is indeed a large part of the experience of watching those films, but it has always been one of the weakest parts of those films for me. Every time I watch FYEO, I think about how it could have been even better if it had a Barry score. It would have a lot of straight-up Bond theme for some action scenes (probably the Citroen chase) just as MR and OP have and another action theme for the ski chase. Like Conti's score, Barry probably would have also written the main title as a love theme like MR and OP, and it would have been a brilliant one considering the other music Barry was writing at the beginning of the 1980s, like Body Heat. I don't mean any offence to Marvin Hamlisch and Bill Conti. I love the music they wrote, but it just doesn't seem exactly right for a Bond film.

CmdrAtticus

The other composers did their best, but lets face it, Barry had Bond's universe nailed like Hermann did Hitchcock's and Williams does with Spielberg's works. Not having his haunting or exciting tracks leaves a big hole in making the films iconic now IMO. I still enjoy them, but they will never be quite the same.

Blackleiter

CmdrAtticus wrote:

The other composers did their best, but lets face it, Barry had Bond's universe nailed like Hermann did Hitchcock's and Williams does with Spielberg's works. Not having his haunting or exciting tracks leaves a big hole in making the films iconic now IMO. I still enjoy them, but they will never be quite the same.

I agree with this 100%. {[]

For me, Barry's music is sorely missed every Bond film without it, although not enough to ruin any of the movies. I do feel, however, that some Bond films would benefit more form Barry's music than others. For example, I enjoy FYEO most of all of the Roger Moore Bonds, and I think a soundtrack by John Barry would make it even better. Same thing with LTK. But I will also say that David Arnold has done an admirable job with his soundtracks and I would welcome his music for more Bond films since, alas, we'll never have a new Barry score again.

AlphaOmegaSin

John Barry's Soundtracks would not be complete with Maurice Binder's Titles and Graphics -{

Matt S

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

John Barry's Soundtracks would not be complete with Maurice Binder's Titles and Graphics -{

You didn't care for Robert Brownjohn's work in FRWL and GF? Maurice Binder was the best at titles for Bond films, but others have done excellent jobs too.I'm not sure we should count FRWL since Barry only wrote the score and not the title song (just the intro to the opening title music).

Barbel

... "only"????

Thunderpussy

) I thought you might be along ! )

chrisisall

Blackleiter wrote:

For me, Barry's music is sorely missed every Bond film without it, although not enough to ruin any of the movies. I do feel, however, that some Bond films would benefit more form Barry's music than others. For example, I enjoy FYEO most of all of the Roger Moore Bonds, and I think a soundtrack by John Barry would make it even better. Same thing with LTK. But I will also say that David Arnold has done an admirable job with his soundtracks and I would welcome his music for more Bond films since, alas, we'll never have a new Barry score again.

Yes, we do think alike! {[]

Matt S

Barbel wrote:

... "only"????

I guess I should have worded that differently. John Barry's contributions to FRWL are much greater than Lionel Bart's.

Matt S

Blackleiter wrote:

CmdrAtticus wrote:

The other composers did their best, but lets face it, Barry had Bond's universe nailed like Hermann did Hitchcock's and Williams does with Spielberg's works. Not having his haunting or exciting tracks leaves a big hole in making the films iconic now IMO. I still enjoy them, but they will never be quite the same.

I agree with this 100%. {[]

For me, Barry's music is sorely missed every Bond film without it, although not enough to ruin any of the movies. I do feel, however, that some Bond films would benefit more form Barry's music than others. For example, I enjoy FYEO most of all of the Roger Moore Bonds, and I think a soundtrack by John Barry would make it even better. Same thing with LTK. But I will also say that David Arnold has done an admirable job with his soundtracks and I would welcome his music for more Bond films since, alas, we'll never have a new Barry score again.

I agree with this. I'm disappointed to have Thomas Newman again rather than David Arnold, but I'm glad to have Sam Mendes back so I'll probably have to deal with another mood score. John Barry's scores are such great music. I listen to many Barry soundtracks for films I've never seen. I should never have watched High Road to China!

Barbel

:-) ..agreed, but that film is "Citizen Kane" when compared to some of the drek Barry scored ("Howard The Duck" for example- great noir music, terrible movie).

Some of the replacement composers worked just fine (Hamlisch, Martin) , some didn't (Serra, Legrand) but none of them came close to capturing Barry's sound until Arnold. I'm hoping he returns to the series.

Charmed & Dangerous

Barbel wrote:

Some of the replacement composers worked just fine (Hamlisch, Martin) , some didn't (Serra, Legrand) but none of them came close to capturing Barry's sound until Arnold. I'm hoping he returns to the series.

+1 - couldn't agree more. -{

M 'n' M

Barry was a genius and his sound IS the sound of Bond. Still, things have to change (after all, he IS dead) and I'm not sure his operatic style would work with Craig's frenetic Bond. Quite what he would have done with Quantum is anybody's guess . . .

Barbel

M n M wrote:

Quite what he would have done with Quantum is anybody's guess . . .

Improved it. Next question please!

HowardB

Barry had his "sound" but he could adapt. He could be jazz oriented or he could do epic/symphonic. I don't think he would have had any trouble composing for Craig's Bond films. I like Arnold's Bond scores, especially CR and to a lesser extent QOS (he was hampered by not being involved in the title song and being able to incorporate it into the overall score). Arnold is a good film composer, but IMO he works for Bond because he is willing to adhere to the iconic style created by Barry. Barry's scores were integral to the films, they made the film's better. Could you imagine the "Star Wars" films without the iconic scores of John Williams (Williams is back for the new one too).

Matt S

Barbel wrote:

Some of the replacement composers worked just fine (Hamlisch, Martin) , some didn't (Serra, Legrand) but none of them came close to capturing Barry's sound until Arnold. I'm hoping he returns to the series.

I agree with this. Arnold tries to capture Barry's sound, but certainly doesn't copy Barry. It is really easy to copy Barry's style since it is very formulaic. I actually really liked Legrand's score both alone and for the film, but that's because I don't think of Never Say Never Again as a Bond film. Just the same as I like Burt Bacharach's score for Casino Royale 67.

Absolutely_Cart

Barbel wrote:

M n M wrote:

Quite what he would have done with Quantum is anybody's guess . . .

Improved it.

Or make it more like a standard bond soundtrack.

Matt S

Absolutely_Cart wrote:

Barbel wrote:

M n M wrote:

Quite what he would have done with Quantum is anybody's guess . . .

Improved it.

Or make it more like a standard bond soundtrack.

By the 1980s, almost all of John Barry's soundtracks other than Bond sounded the same. If he scored Bond even later in his career, it would have had Barry's usual sound at the time. Listen to the soundtrack to Enigma, Barry's last score, or Mercury Rising and you'll get a pretty good idea of what it would have sounded like.

AlphaOmegaSin

Matt S wrote:

AlphaOmegaSin wrote:

John Barry's Soundtracks would not be complete with Maurice Binder's Titles and Graphics -{

You didn't care for Robert Brownjohn's work in FRWL and GF? Maurice Binder was the best at titles for Bond films, but others have done excellent jobs too.I'm not sure we should count FRWL since Barry only wrote the score and not the title song (just the intro to the opening title music).

I think that every Composer that has worked on the Bond Soundtracks has done an amazing Job -{ FRWL is one of my favorite Bond Soundtracks.

Blackleiter

HowardB wrote:

Barry had his "sound" but he could adapt. He could be jazz oriented or he could do epic/symphonic. I don't think he would have had any trouble composing for Craig's Bond films

Absolutely agree. {[]

AlphaOmegaSin

He also took various Influences from different Sources

Thunderpussy

The new spy series " The Game" in its soundtrack, there seems to be a nod to Barry.
Obviously not anything excessive, just the odd cue, or ending to a piece of music.