The main pro for me is the way that the action sequences are used to advance the plot and show character.
Exactly right! everything that happens has to either advance the plot or define character. The best Bond movies as CR, or any good movie really, stick to this religiously.
One of the biggest pros for me is how much the film reinvigorated the series.
I remember distinctly everyone at the cinema being over-the-moon with the film and claiming Bond to be back and Craig as a masterstroke. Many people I know talked about it for a few weeks after and saw it more than once, heck, they even bought the DVD! From all the Bonds I'd seen at the movies from TWINE on, this was the only one that created such buzz.
I do agree with others in this thread who've said they felt the same sense of buzz and approval on release but overtime they've felt less positive. For me, my change in sentiment is because of the dialogue and the dragging 3rd act. Everything else is great.
I think overall CR for me will hold up like GF does - a great adventure with meaning in the series as a classic Bond film. Something that's rare.
It is a great Bond film and I would put it about 6th in my all time favourites list after: DN, FRWL, GF, TB & TLD.
CR came at just the right time, and with just the right person to play Bond (Contrary to some peoples views when he was given the role).
It gave the Bond franchise the shot in the arm it needed and re-invented it for a whole new audience, whilst also telling one of the remaining Fleming stories that all us veterans had so desperately wanted to see brought to the big screen (in the right way I mean).
On rare occasions you can please everyone, and I think Casino Royale managed that.
I will admit that the way the gunbarrel flows into the title sequence with "You Know My Name" is pretty cool.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I will admit that the way the gunbarrel flows into the title sequence with "You Know My Name" is pretty cool.
The gunbarrel is part of the title sequence and isn't its own gunbarrel sequence. It kind of recalls how the gunbarrel in Dr. No was part of the title sequence, though it's almost like it's own piece before the title sequence and the title sequence builds on it.
I happen to be a Soundgarden fan, and think the song is cool, but it's not one of my fave Bond songs, there are def others I prefer to it.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
The fact that the title sequence lacks silhouettes of nude women says a lot about how this movie was intended as a break in tone with previous eras.
Guns were kept in it though.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I hope they bring back those silhouettes when a new Bond comes.
After all, sexuality is an integral part of the franchise.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I remember getting the video for " In like Flint" years ago, and the
Opening titles are so suggestive, I thought they had given me a
Soft porn movie by mistake. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I remember getting the video for " In like Flint" years ago, and the
Opening titles are so suggestive, I thought they had given me a
Soft porn movie by mistake. )
I can't deny that Mikkelsen played LeChiffre very well.
Who doesn't like the way he says: "You are a funny man, Mr. Bond."?
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
- Titles and title song
- Parkour sequence is brilliant
- Bahamas scenes as inviting as TB's
- Change of approach is welcome
- Craig makes a decent first impression
- Poker scenes done extremely well
- MM as Le Chifrre is excellent
- Locations, production design, cinematography is rich and lush
- Arnold's score is fantastic
- Phone discussion between M and Bond at end is very well done
- Supporting cast is excellent including Leiter, Demetrious, the dealer, Mr White etc.
- Film has a much more real feel to it than the preceding films
- Judi Dench is wonderful again - tougher
Cons:
- While very beautiful, I don't find myself enjoying Eva Green
- Dialogue between Bond and Vesper makes me want to throw up, it's pretentious, heavy handed and the romance feels forced upon the audience
- While necessary to the plot some elements of the film are frustrating and drawn out. Like the Bodyworks/Miami chase, poisoning of the drink etc. these parts could've been made shorter or removed to give the film a more polished feel
- Mathis is underdeveloped and poorly played. If anything, he's annoying.
- Craig's clothing choices aren't the best. After PB's suits, these are ill fitting.
- Sony product placement is shockingly overt
Overall:
CR is extremely well made and the care taken in the production and direction of the film shows. It's easy to see why so many fans and non fans alike really rate this film highly. But, over time for me I find I enjoy this film less and less. I find myself getting frustrated, bored and rolling my eyes at the dialogue. It works on some levels and doesn't on others. The ending is satisfying and the "trilogy" aspect helps my consideration of its place in the series.
This one ain't holding up as well as others for me, QoS just feels like a more satisfying watch.
I first read the novel back in the 60s and could never see it being filmed- it was just so different from what Sean Connery was doing onscreen in (say) TB. On seeing CR67, and after the subsequent rehabilitation, that feeling was strengthened since I knew that Eon didn't have the rights so the ? seven minutes between Orson Welles and Peter Sellers which resembled a piece of quasi-Fleming driftwood to cling to in the wake of an expensive shipwreck was therefore the closest I'd ever see to CR onscreen. I had read that many years ago (yes, before even an oldie like me) there had been a US TV production but that had been live and was lost in the ether.
Amazing what waiting around for forty years can do. The TV version did surface, but far more significantly Eon did end up with the rights and make a proper film of the first Bond novel, which was as faithful as could reasonably be expected (in the 2nd half, anyway) with one or two quibbles (poker rather than baccarat?).
So for this long-term Bond fan it was a pleasure and delight to see real Fleming characters, situations and dialogue on the big screen- several times- for the first time in a long, long while and this has and always will raise the 06 film in my estimation... though not in my ranking since I don't do them.
I think the movie is well-written, beautifully shot, and the music is excellent. The cast is generally good and overall I have only one complaint- but I can overlook that and enjoy the film. Frequently!
This film is what rekindled my bond fire, I have no complaints about it other than the very minor bit about le chiffre losing all his money on the stock markets and that's why he can put on the poker game? I just don't get that. Aside from that it is one of my favourite films
When I first saw CR in the cinema I was so impressed that I went back and saw it the following day. I have seen it a couple of times since but not for a few years. I ranked it at #2 in my old list so it will be interesting to see how it fares now.
Pros:
PTS b/w adds effect.
Gunbarrel - Titles - Song - Music
Free running sequence.
Miami Airport
Poker game
Defibrillator sequence
Torture Scene
Venice locations
JB - Le Chiffre - Mathis - Leiter - Mr White
Cons:
Using Judi Dench as M again.
Poker game
Vesper Lynd
Collapsing building
Conclusion: This reboot of the franchise is a stunning reinvention of Bond as an all out ruthless action hero, we have not seen Bond like this since the virtually flawless OHMSS. Daniel Craig is superb as the newly crowned 00 agent and has strong support from most of the main cast. The movie is a brilliant adaption of the source novel, updating it and filling in background where needed. The only weak spots are having Judi Dench back as M which even though I enjoyed her performance it was too much of a link with the largely ineffectual PB. I'm also not sure that Bond would fall so easily for Vesper and Eva Green although beautiful does not give the right performance for someone who makes Bond besotted with her. The climax of the film is overlong and the collapsing building is just there for effect and it detracts from the actual events taking place with Bond desperately trying to save Vesper. The titles are superb, maybe the best ever, very reminiscent of the original book cover.
Anyone reading this may be wondering why I have listed the poker game as both a pro and a con. This is because as a pro it is a very cinematic tense sequence but as a con it is full of bad etiquette and even worse play. Taking the final hand only we come into the hand on the turn (the 4th card being turned over) and there are checks all round (meaning no bets) - but we have learnt that there has been a previous raise and call so the pot stands at 24 million. Not that we know it at the time but the 4 players left in have the following pocket cards: Japanese player: KQ Spades - Big Guy: 88 - Le Chiffre A 6 off suit - Bond 5 7 Spades. So the flop is(the first 3 cards being turned over) A Hearts 8 Spades 6 Spades. We don't know if the bet to raise the pot to 24 million was pre or post flop and who made the raise but it was probably Le Chiffre to test the water but having made that raise both the Japanese or Big Guy players should have either folded or bet all-in as their stacks were so low. Bond stayed in thinking Le Chiffre was bluffing which at that point he was. So the 4th card is shown and it is the 4 spades. Everyone checks which is fair enough and the river card (5th card over) is A spades. Bond wisely checks knowing that Le Chiffre will make a move but both the Japanese and Big Guy players go all in which is really bad play considering what they are holding and with 2 players behind them - Le Chiffre makes a raise which is countered by an all-in bet from Bond - this leaves Le Chiffre with a choice - he has 27.5 million left which is enough to do damage in what would probably be a heads up encounter with the other two having gone out to Bond's hand or call with the hope that Bond is not holding an A 8 which would beat Le Chiffre - he probably discounted the unlikely event of what Bond ACTUALLY had. Anyway he calls and is beaten where a player of Le Chiffre's supposed ability would have conceded and left himself a chance to play on. As I said before it is a great cinematic hand but in real life I would love to be playing all these players and most poker players with a reasonable ability would wipe the floor with the entire table.
Anyway CR is a fabulous way to reboot the franchise and although it does lose a place in my rankings it is still one the all-time great Bond movies.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
I'm also not sure that Bond would fall so easily for Vesper and Eva Green although beautiful does not give the right performance for someone who makes Bond besotted with her.
Agreed.
Interesting points about the poker game, I like how you've listed it as both a pro and con as you appear to know what you're talking about when it comes to the game! To me that the others involved in the game are just useless cinematic "fall-guys" who never win anything or have any hope.
I guess all casino-games portrayed in movies are either full of continuity errors or simplifications for heightening of the visuals...
BBC America had Goldfinger followed by Casino Royale today. Two of my favorites. Love them both. I still don't see the issue with Vesper and Bond. I find it FAR more convincing and believable then his romance in Spectre.
Pros
YKMN
Dench
Mr Mendel
Giancarlo Giannini
Scene where Bond drinks after stairwell fight
Cons Writing - some of the 'romantic' dialogue, Bond and Vesper's characterisation, how the story unfolds/plotpoints
Rookie Agent Bond (deserves a separate point)
Craig
Eva Green
Lack of colour, culture, and joie de vivre.
Lack of atmosphere (where is the "scent of sweat and smoke is nauseating at three in the morning"? Sets up a moody, intense espionage thriller and it doesn't make it into the film.) Which leads onto:
Cinematography - overly saturated, Americanised colour palette.
Score (majority of at least. City of Lovers, latter half of Blunt Instrument, Solange and a few others are pretty melodic).
Torture scene. Starts off really well, then descends into thuggish English lad cracking crass jokes about his balls. Very phlegmingesque. 8-)
I'll leave it there for now.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Comments
Exactly right! everything that happens has to either advance the plot or define character. The best Bond movies as CR, or any good movie really, stick to this religiously.
You, Sir, have good taste. -{
"- That is something to be afraid of."
I remember distinctly everyone at the cinema being over-the-moon with the film and claiming Bond to be back and Craig as a masterstroke. Many people I know talked about it for a few weeks after and saw it more than once, heck, they even bought the DVD! From all the Bonds I'd seen at the movies from TWINE on, this was the only one that created such buzz.
I do agree with others in this thread who've said they felt the same sense of buzz and approval on release but overtime they've felt less positive. For me, my change in sentiment is because of the dialogue and the dragging 3rd act. Everything else is great.
I think overall CR for me will hold up like GF does - a great adventure with meaning in the series as a classic Bond film. Something that's rare.
"Better make that two."
I like the style of the film, Eva Green, and generally the clothes.
CR came at just the right time, and with just the right person to play Bond (Contrary to some peoples views when he was given the role).
It gave the Bond franchise the shot in the arm it needed and re-invented it for a whole new audience, whilst also telling one of the remaining Fleming stories that all us veterans had so desperately wanted to see brought to the big screen (in the right way I mean).
On rare occasions you can please everyone, and I think Casino Royale managed that.
As opposed to QoS, which is disjointed from the car chase onwards
I feel the best scenes are at the end ie Bonds torture, the collapse of the palazzo, "The bitch is dead"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
The gunbarrel is part of the title sequence and isn't its own gunbarrel sequence. It kind of recalls how the gunbarrel in Dr. No was part of the title sequence, though it's almost like it's own piece before the title sequence and the title sequence builds on it.
I happen to be a Soundgarden fan, and think the song is cool, but it's not one of my fave Bond songs, there are def others I prefer to it.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
"Better make that two."
I don't love it, but it's not a bad song. Of the four Craig songs, I think it's the best one.
Guns were kept in it though.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
ot have I miss read the signs again
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
After all, sexuality is an integral part of the franchise.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Opening titles are so suggestive, I thought they had given me a
Soft porn movie by mistake.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Who doesn't like the way he says: "You are a funny man, Mr. Bond."?
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Pros:
- Titles and title song
- Parkour sequence is brilliant
- Bahamas scenes as inviting as TB's
- Change of approach is welcome
- Craig makes a decent first impression
- Poker scenes done extremely well
- MM as Le Chifrre is excellent
- Locations, production design, cinematography is rich and lush
- Arnold's score is fantastic
- Phone discussion between M and Bond at end is very well done
- Supporting cast is excellent including Leiter, Demetrious, the dealer, Mr White etc.
- Film has a much more real feel to it than the preceding films
- Judi Dench is wonderful again - tougher
Cons:
- While very beautiful, I don't find myself enjoying Eva Green
- Dialogue between Bond and Vesper makes me want to throw up, it's pretentious, heavy handed and the romance feels forced upon the audience
- While necessary to the plot some elements of the film are frustrating and drawn out. Like the Bodyworks/Miami chase, poisoning of the drink etc. these parts could've been made shorter or removed to give the film a more polished feel
- Mathis is underdeveloped and poorly played. If anything, he's annoying.
- Craig's clothing choices aren't the best. After PB's suits, these are ill fitting.
- Sony product placement is shockingly overt
Overall:
CR is extremely well made and the care taken in the production and direction of the film shows. It's easy to see why so many fans and non fans alike really rate this film highly. But, over time for me I find I enjoy this film less and less. I find myself getting frustrated, bored and rolling my eyes at the dialogue. It works on some levels and doesn't on others. The ending is satisfying and the "trilogy" aspect helps my consideration of its place in the series.
This one ain't holding up as well as others for me, QoS just feels like a more satisfying watch.
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Amazing what waiting around for forty years can do. The TV version did surface, but far more significantly Eon did end up with the rights and make a proper film of the first Bond novel, which was as faithful as could reasonably be expected (in the 2nd half, anyway) with one or two quibbles (poker rather than baccarat?).
So for this long-term Bond fan it was a pleasure and delight to see real Fleming characters, situations and dialogue on the big screen- several times- for the first time in a long, long while and this has and always will raise the 06 film in my estimation... though not in my ranking since I don't do them.
I think the movie is well-written, beautifully shot, and the music is excellent. The cast is generally good and overall I have only one complaint- but I can overlook that and enjoy the film. Frequently!
Agreed.
Pros:
PTS b/w adds effect.
Gunbarrel - Titles - Song - Music
Free running sequence.
Miami Airport
Poker game
Defibrillator sequence
Torture Scene
Venice locations
JB - Le Chiffre - Mathis - Leiter - Mr White
Cons:
Using Judi Dench as M again.
Poker game
Vesper Lynd
Collapsing building
Conclusion: This reboot of the franchise is a stunning reinvention of Bond as an all out ruthless action hero, we have not seen Bond like this since the virtually flawless OHMSS. Daniel Craig is superb as the newly crowned 00 agent and has strong support from most of the main cast. The movie is a brilliant adaption of the source novel, updating it and filling in background where needed. The only weak spots are having Judi Dench back as M which even though I enjoyed her performance it was too much of a link with the largely ineffectual PB. I'm also not sure that Bond would fall so easily for Vesper and Eva Green although beautiful does not give the right performance for someone who makes Bond besotted with her. The climax of the film is overlong and the collapsing building is just there for effect and it detracts from the actual events taking place with Bond desperately trying to save Vesper. The titles are superb, maybe the best ever, very reminiscent of the original book cover.
Anyone reading this may be wondering why I have listed the poker game as both a pro and a con. This is because as a pro it is a very cinematic tense sequence but as a con it is full of bad etiquette and even worse play. Taking the final hand only we come into the hand on the turn (the 4th card being turned over) and there are checks all round (meaning no bets) - but we have learnt that there has been a previous raise and call so the pot stands at 24 million. Not that we know it at the time but the 4 players left in have the following pocket cards: Japanese player: KQ Spades - Big Guy: 88 - Le Chiffre A 6 off suit - Bond 5 7 Spades. So the flop is(the first 3 cards being turned over) A Hearts 8 Spades 6 Spades. We don't know if the bet to raise the pot to 24 million was pre or post flop and who made the raise but it was probably Le Chiffre to test the water but having made that raise both the Japanese or Big Guy players should have either folded or bet all-in as their stacks were so low. Bond stayed in thinking Le Chiffre was bluffing which at that point he was. So the 4th card is shown and it is the 4 spades. Everyone checks which is fair enough and the river card (5th card over) is A spades. Bond wisely checks knowing that Le Chiffre will make a move but both the Japanese and Big Guy players go all in which is really bad play considering what they are holding and with 2 players behind them - Le Chiffre makes a raise which is countered by an all-in bet from Bond - this leaves Le Chiffre with a choice - he has 27.5 million left which is enough to do damage in what would probably be a heads up encounter with the other two having gone out to Bond's hand or call with the hope that Bond is not holding an A 8 which would beat Le Chiffre - he probably discounted the unlikely event of what Bond ACTUALLY had. Anyway he calls and is beaten where a player of Le Chiffre's supposed ability would have conceded and left himself a chance to play on. As I said before it is a great cinematic hand but in real life I would love to be playing all these players and most poker players with a reasonable ability would wipe the floor with the entire table.
Anyway CR is a fabulous way to reboot the franchise and although it does lose a place in my rankings it is still one the all-time great Bond movies.
Agreed.
Interesting points about the poker game, I like how you've listed it as both a pro and con as you appear to know what you're talking about when it comes to the game! To me that the others involved in the game are just useless cinematic "fall-guys" who never win anything or have any hope.
I guess all casino-games portrayed in movies are either full of continuity errors or simplifications for heightening of the visuals...
"Better make that two."
YKMN
Dench
Mr Mendel
Giancarlo Giannini
Scene where Bond drinks after stairwell fight
Cons
Writing - some of the 'romantic' dialogue, Bond and Vesper's characterisation, how the story unfolds/plotpoints
Rookie Agent Bond (deserves a separate point)
Craig
Eva Green
Lack of colour, culture, and joie de vivre.
Lack of atmosphere (where is the "scent of sweat and smoke is nauseating at three in the morning"? Sets up a moody, intense espionage thriller and it doesn't make it into the film.) Which leads onto:
Cinematography - overly saturated, Americanised colour palette.
Score (majority of at least. City of Lovers, latter half of Blunt Instrument, Solange and a few others are pretty melodic).
Torture scene. Starts off really well, then descends into thuggish English lad cracking crass jokes about his balls. Very phlegmingesque. 8-)
I'll leave it there for now.