Pros
Lack of atmosphere (where is the "scent of sweat and smoke is nauseating at three in the morning"? Sets up a moody, intense espionage thriller and it doesn't make it into the film.)
Casino's today don't allow smoking and they have air conditioning so I fail to see how clouds of smoke and rivulets of sweat are going to make that scene look any better. Players are supposed to be "poker-faced" so not to allow any "tells". The movie portrays the poker game with tension even if the actual playing of the hands is naïve (see my comments in my earlier post).
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Last time that I've been in Vegas (3 weeks ago) and Macau (last year), everybody was smoking there in the Casino
I stand corrected, Higgins, I had no idea smoking was still allowed in Vegas, I want to enter into the WSOP event at some point but this may change my mind
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Pros
Lack of atmosphere (where is the "scent of sweat and smoke is nauseating at three in the morning"? Sets up a moody, intense espionage thriller and it doesn't make it into the film.)
Casino's today don't allow smoking and they have air conditioning so I fail to see how clouds of smoke and rivulets of sweat are going to make that scene look any better. Players are supposed to be "poker-faced" so not to allow any "tells". The movie portrays the poker game with tension even if the actual playing of the hands is naïve (see my comments in my earlier post).
It's not so much about the smoking as such, it's about the moodiness. At least have some moody, shadowy lighting, intense closeups, better dialogue, etc.
And besides, smoke looks great on camera.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Pros
Lack of atmosphere (where is the "scent of sweat and smoke is nauseating at three in the morning"? Sets up a moody, intense espionage thriller and it doesn't make it into the film.)
Casino's today don't allow smoking and they have air conditioning so I fail to see how clouds of smoke and rivulets of sweat are going to make that scene look any better. Players are supposed to be "poker-faced" so not to allow any "tells". The movie portrays the poker game with tension even if the actual playing of the hands is naïve (see my comments in my earlier post).
It's not so much about the smoking as such, it's about the moodiness. At least have some moody, shadowy lighting, intense closeups, better dialogue, etc.
And besides, smoke looks great on camera.
We will have to differ on this one as I still think the sequence is well handled -{
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
I never came up with my list of pros and cons for this film, so since this was brought up again I think I will:
Pros:
Brings back some Fleming content
David Arnold's score
Title song
DBS barrel roll is cool
Free running sequence is cool
Mathis
Leiter
Cons:
No gunbarrel at the beginning
PTS
Gunbarrel and title sequence — design looks horribly dated and inelegant
Le Chiffre is forgettable, particularly after being played by Peter Lorre and Orson Welles.
Atrocious dialogue (Omega, armour and much more)
Miami airport sequence
Final Venice sequence
M babysitting Bond
Craig and Green's poor chemistry makes the romance difficult to believe
Romance is underdeveloped
Poker instead of baccarat
Daniel Craig is terrible in the torture scene
Should have been a car chase to lead up to the barrel roll. Things get exciting, but it's over too soon and very disappointing.
Effects during fight scene in stairwell and poison scene are silly and make it seem less realistic
Unnecessary origin story. It wasn't part of Fleming's novel and doesn't make sense for a 38-year-old Bond.
Daniel Craig's wooden acting, lack of personality and overall lack of screen presence
Craig is too rough and lacks the finesse a man of Bond's education should have. Bond didn't become the gentleman we know through his mission in his late 30s, he would have become this man two decades earlier.
Montenegro (Prague) is a terrible location and makes the film look cheap because it really isn't a location at all. Fleming's casino location sounds considerably more interesting.
No casino atmosphere of the novel since there really is no casino. It's just an typical space in a hotel.
Poor pacing. Action all at the beginning makes the end seem slow. But the action at the beginning is boring and makes the beginning feel slow in a different way.
Overuse of 2006 mobile phones looks horribly dated now
Casino Royale is one of the few Bond films I genuinely dislike, along with Die Another Day. I think it's a terrible adaptation of Fleming's novel.
Last time that I've been in Vegas (3 weeks ago) and Macau (last year), everybody was smoking there in the Casino
I stand corrected, Higgins, I had no idea smoking was still allowed in Vegas, I want to enter into the WSOP event at some point but this may change my mind
Don't worry, no smoking is allowed at the Rio during the WSOP. And for the rest of Vegas, it seems to really depend on the casino you are playing at. Some casinos, like the Venetian, have a very welcoming poker room, well set up, smoke free etc. Other casinos have their poker room tucked away somewhere in the back next to the sports book where you have to wade through 750 ashtrays just to get to your seat.
Pros - I love this film. It's my favourite film of all time, not just favourite Bond film. Great casting, good acting, wonderful locations and so beautifully photographed. Superb directing by Martin Campbell with great tension at times and and at other times he just lets the film breathe.
I thought Daniel Craig was the wrong choice before filming began. After watching the film I couldn't imagine anyone else playing the role. Funnily enough I saw him in other things afterwards and still thought he could never be Bond, that's how good he was in the role if that makes sense.
Last time that I've been in Vegas (3 weeks ago) and Macau (last year), everybody was smoking there in the Casino
I stand corrected, Higgins, I had no idea smoking was still allowed in Vegas, I want to enter into the WSOP event at some point but this may change my mind
Don't worry, no smoking is allowed at the Rio during the WSOP. And for the rest of Vegas, it seems to really depend on the casino you are playing at. Some casinos, like the Venetian, have a very welcoming poker room, well set up, smoke free etc. Other casinos have their poker room tucked away somewhere in the back next to the sports book where you have to wade through 750 ashtrays just to get to your seat.
Thank you, Peppermill, I have played poker in many countries but am leaving Vegas until I play in The Main Event
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Is Casino Royale heading in the direction of Goldeneye? That it divides opinion?
I thought the general consensus was that GE is classic Bond, with only a few people not liking it. But as far as I know, CR isn't ageing all that well amongst a lot of Bond fans (note: not all, I know there are always exceptions).
But the general public still very much love both.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Is Casino Royale heading in the direction of Goldeneye? That it divides opinion?
I thought the general consensus was that GE is classic Bond, with only a few people not liking it. But as far as I know, CR isn't ageing all that well amongst a lot of Bond fans (note: not all, I know there are always exceptions).
But the general public still very much love both.
I think we're still a very small minority who don't care for CR. Most people still consider it one of the best, if not the best, Bond film. GoldenEye will always be popular with the people who grew up with it because they grew up with the video game (which is a better video game than GE is a movie).
On other Bond forums, CR would be very lucky to make the top 10!
I never played the GE video game, I just think it's a very solid film, with interesting, colourful characters, atmospheric cinematography and music that evokes a moody post-Cold War, European feel, a balanced James Bond in writing and performance and a good helping of bizarre which is inherent in Fleming's works. -{
EDIT: Not sure if I've seen your ranking of the Bond films, Matt S... Where can I find it? And you've got a very eclectic ranking, Heartbroken Mr Drax.... Great to see TWINE and FYEO love, but FRWL and SF are too low!
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
I absolutely love GE and CR. Nothing to do with the game. It was a return to classic awesome Bond. With henchman (woman), awesome action, fun twist, secret lair.
Casino Royale was also great. I don't get how people think the Swann romance Is more believable then Vespers. Love the movie. Phenominal.
Vesper's and Swann's romances both weren't handled all that well. The relationships with Natalya, Kara and even Domino were handled better. And of course, Tracy's is superior.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
Vesper's and Swann's romances both weren't handled all that well. The relationships with Natalya, Kara and even Domino were handled better. And of course, Tracy's is superior.
That's the thing with Bond. It is EXTREMELY difficult making it believable and real. Alot is the audience perception of the character abd obviously writing.
But to make viewers actually believe Bond is in love is a very difficult thing to do.
Vesper's and Swann's romances both weren't handled all that well. The relationships with Natalya, Kara and even Domino were handled better. And of course, Tracy's is superior.
I did not recognise a relationship between Bond and Swann at all. Vesper was handled better, but still lacked credibility for me.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Vesper's and Swann's romances both weren't handled all that well. The relationships with Natalya, Kara and even Domino were handled better. And of course, Tracy's is superior.
I did not recognise a relationship between Bond and Swann at all. Vesper was handled better, but still lacked credibility for me.
I saw more of a relationship between Bond and Swann than with Bond and Vesper. I got no impression that Bond had feelings for either Vesper or Swann, but at least with Swann I saw that she felt something for him. With Vesper, she clearly felt nothing for Bond. The relationship from the CR novel was not believable to me in the film.
Vesper's and Swann's romances both weren't handled all that well. The relationships with Natalya, Kara and even Domino were handled better. And of course, Tracy's is superior.
I did not recognise a relationship between Bond and Swann at all. Vesper was handled better, but still lacked credibility for me.
I saw more of a relationship between Bond and Swann than with Bond and Vesper. I got no impression that Bond had feelings for either Vesper or Swann, but at least with Swann I saw that she felt something for him. With Vesper, she clearly felt nothing for Bond. The relationship from the CR novel was not believable to me in the film.
Yep. Babs wanted to make Vesper a modern woman who ain't need no man, but also wanted to adapt a male heterosexual fantasy espionage novel, and so there is no development from when she sizes him up and getting seperate bedrooms, to knowing he's more of a man than anyone she's ever met.
Swann's wasn't that much better, and I can't believe Bond would quit the service for her, either. She goes from hating Bond, to reservedly trusting him, to suddenly flirting on a train, sex, then they're in love. Bond swears to protect her, they get into London, she decides to leave, Bond agrees (huh?), knowing that villains are still about, she is captured (surprise surprise!), and then she leaves with Bond... Hmmm...
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
I thought the romance and chemistry between Bond and Vesper was very believable and very well played out. The dinner scene on the train was excellent with some cracking dialogue. Bond was well and truly put in his place and he enjoyed it.
The Spectre romance on the other hand was very disappointing to me as was the film in general.
I thought the romance and chemistry between Bond and Vesper was very believable and very well played out. The dinner scene on the train was excellent with some cracking dialogue. Bond was well and truly put in his place and he enjoyed it.
I saw more of a relationship between Bond and Swann than with Bond and Vesper. I got no impression that Bond had feelings for either Vesper or Swann, but at least with Swann I saw that she felt something for him. With Vesper, she clearly felt nothing for Bond. The relationship from the CR novel was not believable to me in the film.
Isn't it strange how people can get completely different thoughts from the same movie...?
I get the absolute opposite impression about Vesper and Madeleine than you do )
I can see the relationship build between Vesper and Bond - especially for an agent on his his first 'proper' mission...the relationship between Madeleine and Bond is rushed, forced and therefore non-existent to me -{
I thought the romance and chemistry between Bond and Vesper was very believable and very well played out. The dinner scene on the train was excellent with some cracking dialogue. Bond was well and truly put in his place and he enjoyed it.
I don't think I saw this movie.
Agreed. The dialogue on the train is lame. It's like an episode of the Gilmore Girls too. She mumbles.
Comments
Casino's today don't allow smoking and they have air conditioning so I fail to see how clouds of smoke and rivulets of sweat are going to make that scene look any better. Players are supposed to be "poker-faced" so not to allow any "tells". The movie portrays the poker game with tension even if the actual playing of the hands is naïve (see my comments in my earlier post).
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I stand corrected, Higgins, I had no idea smoking was still allowed in Vegas, I want to enter into the WSOP event at some point but this may change my mind
With the rest of the smokers.
It's not so much about the smoking as such, it's about the moodiness. At least have some moody, shadowy lighting, intense closeups, better dialogue, etc.
And besides, smoke looks great on camera.
It's banned in the two casino's I use here in The Philippines but cannot verify if this is a countrywide ban or not.
We will have to differ on this one as I still think the sequence is well handled -{
1.see profile pic
2.memorable action scenes
3.reinvigorated the franchise
4.Craig as a tougher, more masculine and in shape Bond
Cons:
1.weak final action scene that's a bit ridiculous
Pros:
Brings back some Fleming content
David Arnold's score
Title song
DBS barrel roll is cool
Free running sequence is cool
Mathis
Leiter
Cons:
No gunbarrel at the beginning
PTS
Gunbarrel and title sequence — design looks horribly dated and inelegant
Le Chiffre is forgettable, particularly after being played by Peter Lorre and Orson Welles.
Atrocious dialogue (Omega, armour and much more)
Miami airport sequence
Final Venice sequence
M babysitting Bond
Craig and Green's poor chemistry makes the romance difficult to believe
Romance is underdeveloped
Poker instead of baccarat
Daniel Craig is terrible in the torture scene
Should have been a car chase to lead up to the barrel roll. Things get exciting, but it's over too soon and very disappointing.
Effects during fight scene in stairwell and poison scene are silly and make it seem less realistic
Unnecessary origin story. It wasn't part of Fleming's novel and doesn't make sense for a 38-year-old Bond.
Daniel Craig's wooden acting, lack of personality and overall lack of screen presence
Craig is too rough and lacks the finesse a man of Bond's education should have. Bond didn't become the gentleman we know through his mission in his late 30s, he would have become this man two decades earlier.
Montenegro (Prague) is a terrible location and makes the film look cheap because it really isn't a location at all. Fleming's casino location sounds considerably more interesting.
No casino atmosphere of the novel since there really is no casino. It's just an typical space in a hotel.
Poor pacing. Action all at the beginning makes the end seem slow. But the action at the beginning is boring and makes the beginning feel slow in a different way.
Overuse of 2006 mobile phones looks horribly dated now
Casino Royale is one of the few Bond films I genuinely dislike, along with Die Another Day. I think it's a terrible adaptation of Fleming's novel.
Don't worry, no smoking is allowed at the Rio during the WSOP. And for the rest of Vegas, it seems to really depend on the casino you are playing at. Some casinos, like the Venetian, have a very welcoming poker room, well set up, smoke free etc. Other casinos have their poker room tucked away somewhere in the back next to the sports book where you have to wade through 750 ashtrays just to get to your seat.
I thought Daniel Craig was the wrong choice before filming began. After watching the film I couldn't imagine anyone else playing the role. Funnily enough I saw him in other things afterwards and still thought he could never be Bond, that's how good he was in the role if that makes sense.
Cons - nothing
"Better make that two."
Thank you, Peppermill, I have played poker in many countries but am leaving Vegas until I play in The Main Event
I thought the general consensus was that GE is classic Bond, with only a few people not liking it. But as far as I know, CR isn't ageing all that well amongst a lot of Bond fans (note: not all, I know there are always exceptions).
But the general public still very much love both.
I think we're still a very small minority who don't care for CR. Most people still consider it one of the best, if not the best, Bond film. GoldenEye will always be popular with the people who grew up with it because they grew up with the video game (which is a better video game than GE is a movie).
A really solid appreciation and like for the films, but elements of frustration at scenes, plot points and just what time is doing to them.
"Better make that two."
I never played the GE video game, I just think it's a very solid film, with interesting, colourful characters, atmospheric cinematography and music that evokes a moody post-Cold War, European feel, a balanced James Bond in writing and performance and a good helping of bizarre which is inherent in Fleming's works. -{
EDIT: Not sure if I've seen your ranking of the Bond films, Matt S... Where can I find it? And you've got a very eclectic ranking, Heartbroken Mr Drax.... Great to see TWINE and FYEO love, but FRWL and SF are too low!
I've only really recently started enjoying FRWL more, I think that probably comes with age -{ I think it will keep moving up the rankings over time.
SF is an alright film, great to look at, well acted - but full of holes and too inwardly focussed.
"Better make that two."
Casino Royale was also great. I don't get how people think the Swann romance Is more believable then Vespers. Love the movie. Phenominal.
They rank #1 and #4 for me.
That's the thing with Bond. It is EXTREMELY difficult making it believable and real. Alot is the audience perception of the character abd obviously writing.
But to make viewers actually believe Bond is in love is a very difficult thing to do.
I did not recognise a relationship between Bond and Swann at all. Vesper was handled better, but still lacked credibility for me.
I saw more of a relationship between Bond and Swann than with Bond and Vesper. I got no impression that Bond had feelings for either Vesper or Swann, but at least with Swann I saw that she felt something for him. With Vesper, she clearly felt nothing for Bond. The relationship from the CR novel was not believable to me in the film.
Yep. Babs wanted to make Vesper a modern woman who ain't need no man, but also wanted to adapt a male heterosexual fantasy espionage novel, and so there is no development from when she sizes him up and getting seperate bedrooms, to knowing he's more of a man than anyone she's ever met.
Swann's wasn't that much better, and I can't believe Bond would quit the service for her, either. She goes from hating Bond, to reservedly trusting him, to suddenly flirting on a train, sex, then they're in love. Bond swears to protect her, they get into London, she decides to leave, Bond agrees (huh?), knowing that villains are still about, she is captured (surprise surprise!), and then she leaves with Bond... Hmmm...
In my own nonsensical opinion, I found CR and OHMSS
Two of the most Romantic Bond films.
I completely agree. -{ -{
The Spectre romance on the other hand was very disappointing to me as was the film in general.
I don't think I saw this movie.
Isn't it strange how people can get completely different thoughts from the same movie...?
I get the absolute opposite impression about Vesper and Madeleine than you do
I can see the relationship build between Vesper and Bond - especially for an agent on his his first 'proper' mission...the relationship between Madeleine and Bond is rushed, forced and therefore non-existent to me -{
Agreed. The dialogue on the train is lame. It's like an episode of the Gilmore Girls too. She mumbles.
I hate it.
"Better make that two."