Pros and Cons: Quantum of Solace
Absolutely_Cart
NJ/NYC, United StatesPosts: 1,740MI6 Agent
The 22nd Bond film and the 2nd to feature Daniel Craig. Due to the writer's strike, scrambling, Craig and the director Marc Forster wrote the script for Quantum of Solace themselves. Rather than inventing anything outlandish, they found a direct sequel as the safest bet. It takes place just minutes after Casino Royale '06. QoS received mixed to positive reviews but failed to match the towering acclaim of its predecessor.
Ultimately, this film is a mix of lots of pros and cons, making it one of the most essential films to discuss in this context.
Pros:
An overall strong performance by Craig
Continues where the last one left off
Greene's an insidious villain with a believable plot
The fast hard-hitting pre-title car shootout action sequence
The return of Mathis congeals the theme of the movie
Environmentalism is a bit ahead of its time
Formula elements (Q, Moneypenny, "shaken not stirred") are parted with
Rightfully unflattering portrayal of American government
The Tosca opera scene
Cons:
Plot is borrowed from Goldfinger and License to Kill
Directing is really jerky and cuts too fast at times
Field's death by oil is corny
Leans more toward action than spy elements
Craig's Bond has no sense of leisure - unlike Fleming
Curt dialogue that could've been fleshed on
Elvis didn't have much of a role
M follows Bond everywhere for some reason
Ultimately, this film is a mix of lots of pros and cons, making it one of the most essential films to discuss in this context.
Pros:
An overall strong performance by Craig
Continues where the last one left off
Greene's an insidious villain with a believable plot
The fast hard-hitting pre-title car shootout action sequence
The return of Mathis congeals the theme of the movie
Environmentalism is a bit ahead of its time
Formula elements (Q, Moneypenny, "shaken not stirred") are parted with
Rightfully unflattering portrayal of American government
The Tosca opera scene
Cons:
Plot is borrowed from Goldfinger and License to Kill
Directing is really jerky and cuts too fast at times
Field's death by oil is corny
Leans more toward action than spy elements
Craig's Bond has no sense of leisure - unlike Fleming
Curt dialogue that could've been fleshed on
Elvis didn't have much of a role
M follows Bond everywhere for some reason
Comments
The Film starts off with a Bang
Some lush Scenery
Jemma Arteton
Quantum is expanded
The final Fight in the Hotel
Cons -
The Film feels rushed in some Places
Greene can sometimes come off as a dull Villain
The main Theme
Pros:
Dominic Greene is indeed not a bad modern day villain. Not over the top
Love the films wardrobe (poss one of the best) Bond looks superb in everything
Enjoy the desert scenes immensely - especially the final showdown at the hotel
Camille is a great Bond girl since different role then they usually play
Fields getting bumped off (find her annoying so enjoyed this)
Bond getting hammered on the Virgin plane (bit of a Fleming vibe)
Opera scene is fantastic
Brutal fight in hotel room (In the past people see this as too brutal for Bond but I think it was great and shows him as a cold hearted killer)
Cons:
I didn't enjoy the PTS (too fast). DC in my view has not been in a great car chase yet, SPECTRE will hopefully give us one.
Hate the chase and swinging about Tarzan rope scenes (totally ridiculous)
Dodgy CGI for the airplane section
Futuristic Mi6 office (computer table) is a bit cheesy
Dislike the demise of Mathis - would of rather he was left out of this film and returned later in the series. In saying that I love the scene where Bond visits him
I also agree its a nice Bond film to watch when after a quick fix due to its length and pacing (apart from PTS)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
and you're probably not a troll.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
-Fight on the scaffolding is very good
-Final fight scenes in the desert are good
-Idea of Quatum being everywhere is interesting
-Greene's fate is unique to the series
-Last scenes with Vesper's boyfriend and M and Bond are a fitting end to the Vesper story
Cons:
-Generally feels like a generic action film
-Opening chase is pretty bland IMO
-Mi6 set design is awful
-Poor editing
-Camille is a bland Bond girl
Overall, the film is both generic and forgettable. However, whilst it has no Bond feeling, it's a decent action flick. 7/10
Make that the Post of the Day as far as I'm concerned.
I almost agree with you ! It's bl**dy brilliant -{
And the theme tune is one of the best B-)
Baby boomers and older Gen X'ers tend to prefer a sense of harmony that isn't here. But I wouldn't call Quantum of Solace a harmonic movie.
It's a good song for QoS, though, because it does identify with that youthful sense of anger and frustration of the Millennial generation in a post-9/11 world, particularly the kind that the movie itself is conveying.
In a sense, you could say that You Know My Name is pretty much the same thing except Chris Cornell takes a more conventional hard rock route whereas Jack White and Alicia Keys take a more rap-oriented route. In many ways, AWTD is a rap song - and rap lacks that harmony many people want.
Distorting guitars was seen as dissonant by older folk just as rap is today. It's a matter of time before AWTD becomes the establishment.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
Ah, but it's now getting some of the love it deserves...
Certainly sounds like someone nearly said that the 'old farts' won't get this great track
Right: (rolls up sleeves) it's nothing to do with age. It's not the right song, that's all. James Bond music does evolve but it does have to fulfill its function. I love YKMN, and that does its job particularly well (it was, for want of a better word, Bondian: it fitted the times, it fitted the story, and its melody could be used within the film in various contexts). AWTD doesn't meet those criteria.
An old fart view would be to yearn for the days of ATH or LTK but Bond films don't have to have lush, highly-orchestrated ballads to start them off on the right foot- take YKMN, AVTAK, TLD, LALD for example. Those were appropriate and contemporary while being far from, say, NDIB or MR.
It's tricky to define the exact qualities which make a good Bond song: for the sake of argument let's say that DAF hits the spot while TMWTGG doesn't yet they're both by the same composer and lyricist (both with excellent Bond track records, puns not intended) and in the same time period. The music that was popular at the time didn't have too much of an influence on the Bond songs, which have been cited as existing in their own world outside of whatever's going on- that isn't strictly true, of course, but has some accuracy: Adele's successful SF song could be described as "retro" or simply Bondian.
I'm not saying you're wrong - I just want clarification.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
(The same argument could be used with Madonna's drivel for DAD, to show that it isn't just this one song. Arnold abstained from using it, bar briefly in the ice palace which I seem to recall wasn't entirely his decision http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/11008/madonnas-bond-song-scored-low/ ).
* Here, Arnold is of course following in the footsteps of John Barry. JB would often use his main theme in different ways through the score (eg, here's TMWTGG used for action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzrfJYIkdMQ and as a love theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVaOrA5twbo). There's more than one way to skin a pussy, so he used other approaches too- OHMSS works fine as an action theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkWX5Wo-Xao but he composed a separate love theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t_pg2cpps4.
Arnold did write a love theme for CR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llUDPIvOSRc but didn't use it as extensively as YKMN.
As for the movie... it's ok. It has some good moments. But overall I'd still rank it low-ish.
I think CR is the better of the two films... but I rank QOS slightly higher, as it's the one I'd rather watch. Perhaps length has something to do with that.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Pros: Everything else.
I really like this movie a lot.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Craig's not my favourite Bond but even I wouldn't call him that!
Yes, melody. I love dissonance. I was just listening to Charles Ives' Three Quarter Tone Pieces the other day. That man knew how to write dissonance! Jack White and Alicia Keys do not.
A big pro for me is the clothing. Of Daniel Craig's three Bond films it's the only one where I really like the clothes. The suits have a great cut for Craig, though the fit could use slight improvement.
One of the biggest cons for me is the gun barrel at the end rather than the beginning. When I saw the film for the first time it was such a disappointment to not see it at the start of the film, and the gun barrel opening up to the water would have worked perfectly.
Mr. Forster...
Yes?
You know that all James Bond movies have the gunbarrel sequence.
Really...
You need to put one in.
Okay, we'll put it at the end
Good.
And we'll speed it up to make it extra flashy.
Okay...
And wouldn't it be cool if the gunbarrel were inside the letter Q.
Sure, okay, why not.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)
1. Craig's energy keeps the movie going forward even when it was making no sense.
2. Arnold's score is one of his best even though the theme song sucked.
3. The opera scene (brilliant!).
4. The PTS (pretty good).
5. The chase scene across the rooftops (but it seemed like too much coming right after the PTS).
6. The final scene (the only scene that had the CR feel to it).
Cons
1. Everything else.
2. The script was obviously a first draft. It had many interesting themes (we have people everywhere) that were never developed.
3. The deaths of Fields and Mathis seemed gratuitous and were just handled in an ugly way.
4. Greene? I guess he's the villain Nick Nack should've been.
5. The story is unnecessarily confusing and made worse by the manic editing.
And how did Mr. White get away? Hadn't he been shot twice at that point? And aren't they in some sort of MI6 safe house jam packed with agents and guards and such?
EON should've sat out the writer's strike and waited another year. There are some interesting ideas in QOS and it's always felt like a missed opportunity.
- The primary cast all give fine performances, even though the material is more limited emotionally and requires less of everyone than the last film.
- The camerawork and cinematography, while "modern arty," give the film a mature if often cold feel.
- Craig continues to effect a Connery vibe, though less so than previously, most evident in the scene when he goes to meet the "geologist," but this will disappear by the time he makes Skyfall.
-David Arnold's score evokes some Bondian moments.
- The sets, especially the hotel at the end, mimic some of Ken Adams' classics.
Cons:
- The PTS, like the rest of the film, is rushed and underdeveloped.
- The theme song is forgettable, and while the animation sequence of Casino Royale might well be the best of the series, this one was unimaginative (though it did seem to have a hidden gunbarrel or two).
- The director has very little sense of geography. He composes shots as though they're static high fashion or architecture magazine photos and seems to think that if they're cut quickly and almost incomprehensibly, no one will notice.
- The script is murky and simplistic at the same time, an odd combination. It lacks the gravitas of the previous film's but doesn't seem to have the self-awareness to know it.
- The action sequences generally lack emotional punch because the script creates few emotional stakes. The dogfight is a good example.
- The girl has very little to do except look sexy.
- The villain has very little to do except look menacing. By the time he's wielding an ax, who cares.
- Mr. White, who was wonderfully crocodilian in the previous film, is more of a wheezy VP of HR here.
- The business between Bond and Mathis is no more understandable at the end of the film than the start.
- Disposing of Mathis was unnecessary and he could simply have been allowed to return to his island.
- The visual allusions to previous Bond films -- Fields in oil, for instance -- were miscalculations.
- Given that Moneypenny does not make an appearance, Villiers should have returned. In point of fact, I don't find Rory Kinnear's Tanner all that interesting, though he seemed to function as a replacement.
- Craig seems to have a flattened, "bowl" haircut in some scenes that ages him and makes him less sporty.
- Quantum, as the modern SPECTRE, seems about as scary and ambitious as the Nabisco Corporation.
A lot of the movie's failings are the result of its shortened length and poor script, so I still think there was a better Bond film in the making than what we got to see.
And regarding Quantum, I hope we do find out what happens to them in SPECTRE.
Quite an achievement, as my starting point was sheer unbridled hatred !
The problems with the writers strike is well documented, so perhaps having
a professional screenwriter, give it a final polish would have greatly helped.
It has indeed many good points, with a few weaknesses, it really is a case of
" What might have been ". -{
All good points...and thanks for breaking them down...I do have a sense that Arnold wasn't happy at not getting the theme tune gig so didn't bother to incorporate AWTD into his score...or it may just have been too late for him to do so...I still love the song though...it 'fits' the movie beautifully for me... -{
{[] Oh, I could waffle on about this sort of stuff endlessly- some would say I already do. And once again, Arnold was following Barry's lead re the theme tune gig (one of the reasons JB quit).
Imaginary phone call:
MGW: Hi John, it's Michael. We'd like you to do the music for our next picture Tomorrow Never Dies.
JB: Sure thing, Michael, I'll start on the theme song right away.
MGW: Ah... we only want you to write the score, the marketing people want Sheryl Crow to write and sing the song.
JB: I don't mind who you get to sing it, but I should be writing it- you know, like I did for GF, TB, YOLT, DAF etc etc.
MGW: No, she gets to write the song.
JB: Then let me give you David Arnold's phone number....