Always thought Heller's death was contrived. Impaled by a forklift, which crashes through the wall. Think he's been shot in the head too, which makes the forklift part unneccesary.
But it fits with Sanchez's character, established during the movie. Remember he feeds Leiter to a shark, then explodes the head of Crest in a tank...The guy is a psycho, and looks for "imaginative" ways to kill. Actually, when he kills Truman Lodge with a machine gun, it feels rushed, and that's because Sanchez is in a hurry.
I think in the Case of Sanchez, he was making an Example of those who betrayed his Loyalty.
None of the Deaths in LTK are contrived. They fit into the Films Narrative.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Now that i think about it, Maybe Heller's death isn't contrived after all. Maybe the whole point of the forklift is to cause Heller as much suffering as possible and the shot in the head was the coup de grace.
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"
I would consider any action scene that exists only to provide action to be contrived. An action scene should move the story forward and characterize the characters, just like any other scene. For example, the action scenes in London in SF tell us that Silva will stop at nothing to destroy M, including killing thousands of innocents, so Bond and M retreat to an isolated location to draw him out. We also learn that Mallory is still a bad ass.
Most contrived sequence I can think of is in OP, when Kamal and his men hunt Bond in the jungle while riding elephants. All of sudden, we go from dinner time, to the middle of the night, to morning, to broad daylight.
Would there be a chance for those who think some chases / action sequences
Are contrived. To put their money where there mouth is and give us a short out line
Of what sequence they would have used and how their idea would have improved
On what the film makers gave us ?
I'm a believer in if you point out problems, you really should also contrive a solution
To solve it. Otherwise you're just a bit of an old curmudgeon )
TP, that's the job of a script doctor or the editor, or the director while making the film, not of fans.
But I'll give it a try...
GE editing room, 1995. I'm in front of the moviola and I see the dam jump. I call Martin Campbell.
-Martin, this is your editor...I think we should get rid of the base jump...
-What? the guy almost killed himself and it's so spectacular...
- Did you notice that Bond is infiltrating a mountain lair?
- So? what's your point?
- I doesn't match with the end of the PTS jumping off the mountain.
- But nobody will notice.
- What about cutting the dam jump and opening the gunbarrel to Bond inside the lair? Less spectacular, but more realistic, and it makes more sense.
Something like that. It's called "kill the babies", however spectacular.
Would there be a chance for those who think some chases / action sequences
Are contrived. To put their money where there mouth is and give us a short out line
Of what sequence they would have used and how their idea would have improved
On what the film makers gave us ?
I'm a believer in if you point out problems, you really should also contrive a solution
To solve it. Otherwise you're just a bit of an old curmudgeon )
TP, that's the job of a script doctor or the editor, or the director while making the film, not of fans.
But I'll give it a try...
GE editing room, 1995. I'm in front of the moviola and I see the dam jump. I call Martin Campbell.
-Martin, this is your editor...I think we should get rid of the base jump...
-What? the guy almost killed himself and it's so spectacular...
- Did you notice that Bond is infiltrating a mountain lair?
- So? what's your point?
- I doesn't match with the end of the PTS jumping off the mountain.
- But nobody will notice.
- What about cutting the dam jump and opening the gunbarrel to Bond inside the lair? Less spectacular, but more realistic, and it makes more sense.
Something like that. It's called "kill the babies", however spectacular.
- Then how about cutting the plane falling off the clip and having Bond catch the plane on the runway?
- That's too easy for Bond, nobody will buy it.
- But it's not even realistically possible.
- But it's exciting.
Guys, you do understand that Film is a Visual medium ? all I can say is thank your god
that the producers never listen to any of us fans ( I include myself) , not so much killing
the babies.......... more like killing the franchise.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I was thinking that after Q gives out the gadgets, we all know Bond is going
To use them so they have to " contrive " a scene when they can be used.
So using that logic every action/fight scene since Dr No has been contrived. )
It's almost as if Bond is working from a script and not making it up as he goes !
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Not contrived, more of a coincidence. Whatever gadget Bond gets, there is always a convenient situation for them to be used. What are the chances of Bond coming across a safe secured with a fingerprint lock, only to have the appropriate gadget on hand?
Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"
Not contrived, more of a coincidence. Whatever gadget Bond gets, there is always a convenient situation for them to be used. What are the chances of Bond coming across a safe secured with a fingerprint lock, only to have the appropriate gadget on hand?
Q gives Equipment that he feels Bond may need. It's more of a 'If the Situation arises' Aspect.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Well there's contrived and much-loved ... and contrived and unloved.
Little Nellie was contrived but fabulous. Ditto the Lotus Esprit submarine, the DB5 ejector seat, the suitcase with the exploding talcum powder. Ridiculous, yes. But we loved them.
But the motorbike into plane jump from Goldeneye? The CGI windsurfing from Die Another Day? A gondola turning into a hovercraft? Sorry, but these should be filed under "contrived and unlovable".
The MR Gondola worked because it fit the Tone of the Film.
1.On Her Majesties Secret Service 2.The Living Daylights 3.license To Kill 4.The Spy Who Loved Me 5.Goldfinger
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,870MI6 Agent
Definition: Contrived = created or arranged in a way that seems artificial and unrealistic.
Allow me to just clarify that this was what I meant by the word "contrived" when I started this thread. I was in fact rather surprised to see that it had never been discussed before. It's not meant to be a "bashing Bond" thread at all; just some healthy criticism of the action sequences in the Bond films. I do get the fact that they are "just films" in the end analysis but some of us fans like to look a little deeper at things when it comes to James Bond as both a literary and cinematic character. -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,870MI6 Agent
I've just added a new contrived action sequence to my list in the OP:
-the Helga Brandt "defection" sub-plot leading to Bond trapped in a plane without a pilot in YOLT
I think that we should all agree that this one is very contrived in nature!
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Comments
I think in the Case of Sanchez, he was making an Example of those who betrayed his Loyalty.
None of the Deaths in LTK are contrived. They fit into the Films Narrative.
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
What No hard Hat, No high Viz jacket ? Loses all realism for me.
TP, that's the job of a script doctor or the editor, or the director while making the film, not of fans.
But I'll give it a try...
GE editing room, 1995. I'm in front of the moviola and I see the dam jump. I call Martin Campbell.
-Martin, this is your editor...I think we should get rid of the base jump...
-What? the guy almost killed himself and it's so spectacular...
- Did you notice that Bond is infiltrating a mountain lair?
- So? what's your point?
- I doesn't match with the end of the PTS jumping off the mountain.
- But nobody will notice.
- What about cutting the dam jump and opening the gunbarrel to Bond inside the lair? Less spectacular, but more realistic, and it makes more sense.
Something like that. It's called "kill the babies", however spectacular.
- Then how about cutting the plane falling off the clip and having Bond catch the plane on the runway?
- That's too easy for Bond, nobody will buy it.
- But it's not even realistically possible.
- But it's exciting.
that the producers never listen to any of us fans ( I include myself) , not so much killing
the babies.......... more like killing the franchise.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
To use them
So using that logic
It's almost as if Bond is working from a script and not making it up as he goes !
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
Q gives Equipment that he feels Bond may need. It's more of a 'If the Situation arises' Aspect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwZbuF40T1M
Eddie Izzard on James Bond's gadgets.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Little Nellie was contrived but fabulous. Ditto the Lotus Esprit submarine, the DB5 ejector seat, the suitcase with the exploding talcum powder. Ridiculous, yes. But we loved them.
But the motorbike into plane jump from Goldeneye? The CGI windsurfing from Die Another Day? A gondola turning into a hovercraft? Sorry, but these should be filed under "contrived and unlovable".
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Allow me to just clarify that this was what I meant by the word "contrived" when I started this thread. I was in fact rather surprised to see that it had never been discussed before. It's not meant to be a "bashing Bond" thread at all; just some healthy criticism of the action sequences in the Bond films. I do get the fact that they are "just films" in the end analysis but some of us fans like to look a little deeper at things when it comes to James Bond as both a literary and cinematic character.
-the Helga Brandt "defection" sub-plot leading to Bond trapped in a plane without a pilot in YOLT
I think that we should all agree that this one is very contrived in nature!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS