There seems to be an obsession with whomever the Fleming Estate hires to write a new Bond novel to either slag the recent films or generally put their foot in their mouth. The authors seem to think they are a bit above all this movie nonsense. Message to all these great scribes: you are not Ian Fleming; if it wasn't for the ongoing success of the films you probably would not be writing a new Bond novel.
Any of the above notwithstanding, and however rubbish their novels may be, it doesn't prevent them, including Horowitz, saying they think the Craig films are rubbish if they actually believe they are, and are asked for their opinion on such.
Not that these particular authors are actually doing this, but sometimes people like to be quoted for their own purposes and self promotion and give opinions designed to bring attention to themselves. Unfortrunately for many these days, its become a fulltime occupation. Horowitz' critism of the SKYFALL script is pretty valid when you think about it (I still find it to be a very entertaining film). The Idris Elba comment he'd probably love to have that one back. Re: David Schofield; I take it you're not a big Daniel Craig fan? If true, I understand. Wasn't a big Roger Moore fan myself and suffered through his long tenure as Bond. Got tired of Brosnan after his first two, but it wasn't his fault, EON didn't give him much to work with. I like DC very much as Bond but he's had advantages quality-wise that PB didn't have.
Not that these particular authors are actually doing this, but sometimes people like to be quoted for their own purposes and self promotion and give opinions designed to bring attention to themselves. Unfortrunately for many these days, its become a fulltime occupation. Horowitz' critism of the SKYFALL script is pretty valid when you think about it (I still find it to be a very entertaining film). The Idris Elba comment he'd probably love to have that one back. Re: David Schofield; I take it you're not a big Daniel Craig fan? If true, I understand. Wasn't a big Roger Moore fan myself and suffered through his long tenure as Bond. Got tired of Brosnan after his first two, but it wasn't his fault, EON didn't give him much to work with. I like DC very much as Bond but he's had advantages quality-wise that PB didn't have.
It's hard for someone to say they don't think Idris Elba would make a good Bond in any manner and not come off as racist to people who think Elba would make a good Bond. Personally, I haven't seen him in anything that would make me think he'd make a good James Bond, but I'd also say the same for Daniel Craig
. Re: David Schofield; I take it you're not a big Daniel Craig fan? If true, I understand. Wasn't a big Roger Moore fan myself and suffered through his long tenure as Bond. Got tired of Brosnan after his first two, but it wasn't his fault, EON didn't give him much to work with. I like DC very much as Bond but he's had advantages quality-wise that PB didn't have.
No, perfectly happy witn DC as JB (though some of the fawning can make me nauseous, though in the 90s the Brozza love and TD bashing had a similar effect.
Trouble with Craig, though, IMO, is that he has all the attributes to be a great Bond, but got himself sidetracked into the nonsense of QOS and bloated rubbish of SKYFALL, the latter most likely due to a 'belief' in Mendes. On all that, I agree witn Horowitz.
You and I are a similar age, I suspect: Rog's tenure, IMO, went on far too long, a lit fan lije me hoping every film would be his last. Now I can enjoy them for what they are. Broz and his films I consider vastly under rated. When Craig goes and opinions shift, I suspect PB will be reappraised like Rog was
James bond is a white man ,shaft is a black man ,the producers will never use a black actor for James bond ,if they do then that's me done with bond ! No disrespect to black people or any other race of people but ..........james bond is a white man .....end of
No, perfectly happy witn DC as JB (though some of the fawning can make me nauseous, though in the 90s the Brozza love and TD bashing had a similar effect.
Trouble with Craig, though, IMO, is that he has all the attributes to be a great Bond, but got himself sidetracked into the nonsense of QOS and bloated rubbish of SKYFALL, the latter most likely due to a 'belief' in Mendes. On all that, I agree witn Horowitz.
You and I are a similar age, I suspect: Rog's tenure, IMO, went on far too long, a lit fan lije me hoping every film would be his last. Now I can enjoy them for what they are. Broz and his films I consider vastly under rated. When Craig goes and opinions shift, I suspect PB will be reappraised like Rog was
QOS was OK (it has parts that are great but doesn't work as well as a whole); Skyfall has its plot holes as Mr. Horowitz pointed out, but for me it just works well as a Bond film and its pure entertainment value overcomes its faults and allows the suspension of disbelief (for me anyway).
With regards to Bond preferences: I saw my first Bond film in 1964 at the age of 7 (double bill of DN and GF) in a proper theater. To me, Sean Connery was James Bond. When Connery left after YOLT I felt betrayed. As I got older and somewhat wiser I became open to
other Bond actors and grew more into a Bond fan than just a Connery Bond fan....but I never particularly cared for Moore nor the direction the films took. Loved Dalton and wished he would of had more than just two. Pierce Brosnan was the perfect man for the job at the time and really helped revive the franchise but was done no favors by EON in his last two films and ended up taking the bullet for them in the end. If anyone has seen "No Escape" there is no doubt that with good writing that Brosnan, even with his Bond days model looks would have been capable of giving a harder more world weary performance as Bond. I like Craig very much on many levels and hope he opts to do at least one more after SPECTOR.
James bond is a white man ,shaft is a black man ,the producers will never use a black actor for James bond ,if they do then that's me done with bond ! No disrespect to black people or any other race of people but ..........james bond is a white man .....end of
Now, that is really hard to take as anything but racist... sorry! Bond is not a "white man". It's a literary character. There are very many ways to express the character artistically. Bob Dylan is a man but in a movie was played by a female actor. Nothing wrong with that.
EON wants Craig as Bond as long as possible. Everybody saying age will be a factor in 2017/2018 I think are reaching. As long as these movies are making upwards of 750mill to over a Billion dollars Craig is going nowhere. I think it's more on Craigs end then EON. His salary will get ridiculous if he wants to leave after Spectre. They'll offer him the bank.
James bond is a white man ,shaft is a black man ,the producers will never use a black actor for James bond ,if they do then that's me done with bond ! No disrespect to black people or any other race of people but ..........james bond is a white man .....end of
Now, that is really hard to take as anything but racist... sorry! Bond is not a "white man". It's a literary character. There are very many ways to express the character artistically. Bob Dylan is a man but in a movie was played by a female actor. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't see it as racist. Harry Potter is a literary character and white. If the franchise is rebooted having a black harry Potter would just be weird and wouldn't feel right. My opinion.
I think it is inevitable that there will be a black james Bond in my lifetime. Will I be hugely upset at it, no. But I'll still feel it is out of place and not seem right. Again my opinion don't have to agree with it. Maybe it does have to do with how I "visualize" the character will reading. But also In most books if a character is black they will say so. It's not assumed
A lot of people talk about how they want Bond to stay true to Fleming. A black Bond would not be true to that, and from the way he wrote about black people he would not approve of Bond being black. But I'm not saying that's right either. Like so many people of his time, Fleming was racist, and we don't need to go with everything he wrote or intended. Fleming also didn't want a Scotsman playing Bond, but he was convinced. If a black person could convince Fleming, I don't think it would be Idris Elba.
James bond is a white man ,shaft is a black man ,the producers will never use a black actor for James bond ,if they do then that's me done with bond ! No disrespect to black people or any other race of people but ..........james bond is a white man .....end of
Now, that is really hard to take as anything but racist... sorry! Bond is not a "white man". It's a literary character. There are very many ways to express the character artistically. Bob Dylan is a man but in a movie was played by a female actor. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't see it as racist. Harry Potter is a literary character and white. If the franchise is rebooted having a black harry Potter would just be weird and wouldn't feel right. My opinion.
I think it is inevitable that there will be a black james Bond in my lifetime. Will I be hugely upset at it, no. But I'll still feel it is out of place and not seem right. Again my opinion don't have to agree with it. Maybe it does have to do with how I "visualize" the character will reading. But also In most books if a character is black they will say so. It's not assumed
Harry Potter is different. They have filmed the whole series, all movies with the same actor. If they ever wanted to re-do it, they could pick an Asian, an Indian, or a Latino, and the choice should be judged on its own merits.
The latest movie version of the Annie musical had and African-American instead of the European-American in it. This is not about being PC, it just reflects the world we are living in. I'd rather have a good black Bond than a white one. And if all things are equal, I just don't care what colour is 007's skin.
a lot of american movies now go for that change...reason "unknown" ;%
but still, I'm really sick of this we are alle the same - talk.
a lot of people call specifically for a black actor as the next Bond, do you call them racists then, too because they see a difference?
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
Now, that is really hard to take as anything but racist... sorry! Bond is not a "white man". It's a literary character. There are very many ways to express the character artistically. Bob Dylan is a man but in a movie was played by a female actor. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't see it as racist. Harry Potter is a literary character and white. If the franchise is rebooted having a black harry Potter would just be weird and wouldn't feel right. My opinion.
I think it is inevitable that there will be a black james Bond in my lifetime. Will I be hugely upset at it, no. But I'll still feel it is out of place and not seem right. Again my opinion don't have to agree with it. Maybe it does have to do with how I "visualize" the character will reading. But also In most books if a character is black they will say so. It's not assumed
Harry Potter is different. They have filmed the whole series, all movies with the same actor. If they ever wanted to re-do it, they could pick an Asian, an Indian, or a Latino, and the choice should be judged on its own merits.
The latest movie version of the Annie musical had and African-American instead of the European-American in it. This is not about being PC, it just reflects the world we are living in. I'd rather have a good black Bond than a white one. And if all things are equal, I just don't care what colour is 007's skin.
I disagree. JK Rowling never says Harry is "white" yet all covers on all of the hundreds of languages have him as white. While I see your point that there have been different actors in Bond. I just see that if they ever cast a black Bond it'll be for PC. To be different. To do something new. Not necessarily because it's the best choice. There are other characters in literature that are black that have had movies. Alex Cross comes to mind. If he was casted white it'd be an uproar.
I feel this whole Black Bond issue is an interesting debate. JAG raised the example of Cate Blanchett playing Bob Dylan in I'm Not There as an example of somewhat off-kilter casting having spectacular results. And whilst that casting choice definitely did work, it only worked because of the context it was placed in. I'm Not There is an avant - garde film, and as such, is a highly imaginative and relatively free form interpretation of Dylan's life. It is not meant as a straight forward biopic such as Walk The Line was about Johnny Cash. Now if Blanchett was cast in a similar biopic picture about Dylan, the casting simply would not work, regardless of her own undoubtable acting capabilities. In fact it would be ludicrous. I feel that Casino Royale 67 could be compared to this. An eccentric, madcap film where, in the context of the film, someone like Peter Sellers can play James Bond and get away with it. Now if Sellers played Bond in an eon film, it would be stupid.
Now in regards to regulard Bond, I wouldn't at all be adverse to a black actor taking on the role if he was the best person to take on the role. If eon searched high and low for the next Bond actor and decided that at the end of the it that the best person to take on the part happened to be black, then go right ahead. However I think this idea of needing a black Bond because it's 2015 is ridiculous. Furthermore the character of Bond is incredibly specific, more so than say a Jason Bourne or other lead action roles. Bond is very much the character of a white Englishman, with Fleming (and the film series) describing the character in a very specific way, assigning him with certain traits that are clearly outlined. Whilst the interpretation of Bond has changed with the different actors over the years, these characteristics and traits have more or less remained, and thus means that the role is really only suited to a very few actors. Due to this, I suspect that the role of Bond is best suited to a white actor. I don't feel that that is racist, but hey, maybe the whole concept of Bond is racist, even with the changes that have been made to the character today. Though I have to say that Elba would be interesting to see as Bond, but I would still prefer to see someone like Henry Cavill take the part after Craig.
you're very welcome -{
one of the bigger problems resulting from this is that some newspapers actually wrote that Elba is the favourite of all Bond fans (they should have went with "casually interested in Bond-people) and they forget one thing: Daniel Craig is still there and hopefully will stick around...
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
Yes he is and I think that Spectre will further cement his relevancy in the role. He has to do a 5th! I would be devastated if this was to be his last. I can only imagine how people must have felt when Connery said goodbye in 1967...
EON wants Craig as Bond as long as possible. Everybody saying age will be a factor in 2017/2018 I think are reaching. As long as these movies are making upwards of 750mill to over a Billion dollars Craig is going nowhere. I think it's more on Craigs end then EON. His salary will get ridiculous if he wants to leave after Spectre. They'll offer him the bank.
Today (4th Sept) there's a new Spectre film poster (on mi6-hq site) with DC in a white tuxedo (like Goldfinger film.)
and Daniel Craig is in the credits as CO-PRODUCER. How much more involved can you get ?!
Roll on his 5th film in 2018.
Bond is obviously white-Scottish/Swiss based on his fictional parents, and the character is based on his author Ian Fleming.
(not any actor who is PC flavour-of -the month and will be forgotten in a month for Bond .)
The problem with Elba is his age, not the color of his skin.
I don't doubt that the role could be adapted for a black man to play the part. But if and when EON goes this route, it should be because the actor in question is a good fit for the role. If the filmakers do it merely to show how progressive they are, the result will not be good (and it will likely destroy the career of the actor in question).
Getting back to Fleming and whether he was racist. Interesting topic. Certainly did not know the man personally but his writing was reflective of racial attitudes among many upper class British men of that generation...which certainly could be considered at worst blatantly racist or at best prejudiced. Connery himself had an interesting take on Fleming considering Fleming to be more of a snob than a blatant racist. Fleming also has a reputation of having been Anti-Semitic but had Jewish friends and associates (many of whom were integral parts of the Bond films) and apparently had a thing for Jewish women. Again like many of his generation and social strata much of his anti-semitism was fueled by classism. If you were upper crust, educated, socially connected, member of an old British or European family you might be accepted. Below that you were considered nothing more than a scheming, black marketeering, Shakespearian stereotype. Not to say that there was not virulent racism and anti-semitism which was illustrated by the support of the Nazis by some in the British upper class and socio economic elite prior to Britains entry into WWII. Not sure how I got off on this tangent, must be the old college Sociology major in me
I wouldn't mind a black actor playing Bond as long as he was the best actor available for the job (As a side note, I don't think Elba will get the role)
However, I do struggle to come to terms with this ferocious campaign for a "Black Bond".
1) Most people don't even want a "Black Bond", they just want Idris Elba. I've found a lot of people are more interested in Elba getting the role as they like him as an actor rather than wanting a "Black Bond" for any revolutionary, cultural significance.
2) There's no such campaign for a black Doctor Who or a black Superman etc. I think this links to my first point really, but I guess I just don't see why Bond seems to be getting so much attention over the subject when other long running franchises or characters escape scrutiny
3) The press seem so obsessed with finding stories about the subject. An actor gets hired to do a Bond audio tape and they all say he's the first "Black Bond" when if they had done their research, they would have found he wasn't. Horowitz recommends another black actor for Bond but it's twisted to make it sound like people with connections to Bond don't want a black actor.
It should be a non-story really. I'm fed up of all the speculation about Elba and all the discussion about race. Actors should be hired because of their ability and not because of their skin colour and the same should go for how they are remembered. With the intensity of the coverage however, I am worried that if Elba doesn't get the role, there will be further uproar and criticism of the Bond franchise when I'm sure skin colour would never come into it.
Hopefully that doesn't happen however and for now, I'm just focusing on SPECTRE and what I think is going to be a great film. There's plenty of time to sort out the issue of the next Bond but the press shouldn't be doing it now when there's a new film coming very shortly.
"You are about to wake when you dream that you are dreaming"
The speculation is becoming really upsetting. Hugh Jackman wants the job.
As for Idris Elba, although I wouldn't be opposed per se (hey, it could work, worked for Moneypenny and Felix Leiter),if you ask me, I would still prefer a white actor. I know James Bond is a fictional character, but in my mind it would be like a black actor playing Napoleon. Bond is too iconic to change race, gender, sexual orientation... If you tinker with those, it would open the door to tinker with everything really. Why not make him an obese guy instead of slim built? drinking all that beer and martinis, it would be more realistic, but it just wouldn't work. What I mean is, I'm first and foremost a fan of the character, books and movies, and the character is very well defined, so I wouldn't change it.
Comments
Any of the above notwithstanding, and however rubbish their novels may be, it doesn't prevent them, including Horowitz, saying they think the Craig films are rubbish if they actually believe they are, and are asked for their opinion on such.
It's hard for someone to say they don't think Idris Elba would make a good Bond in any manner and not come off as racist to people who think Elba would make a good Bond. Personally, I haven't seen him in anything that would make me think he'd make a good James Bond, but I'd also say the same for Daniel Craig
No, perfectly happy witn DC as JB (though some of the fawning can make me nauseous, though in the 90s the Brozza love and TD bashing had a similar effect.
Trouble with Craig, though, IMO, is that he has all the attributes to be a great Bond, but got himself sidetracked into the nonsense of QOS and bloated rubbish of SKYFALL, the latter most likely due to a 'belief' in Mendes. On all that, I agree witn Horowitz.
You and I are a similar age, I suspect: Rog's tenure, IMO, went on far too long, a lit fan lije me hoping every film would be his last. Now I can enjoy them for what they are. Broz and his films I consider vastly under rated. When Craig goes and opinions shift, I suspect PB will be reappraised like Rog was
QOS was OK (it has parts that are great but doesn't work as well as a whole); Skyfall has its plot holes as Mr. Horowitz pointed out, but for me it just works well as a Bond film and its pure entertainment value overcomes its faults and allows the suspension of disbelief (for me anyway).
With regards to Bond preferences: I saw my first Bond film in 1964 at the age of 7 (double bill of DN and GF) in a proper theater. To me, Sean Connery was James Bond. When Connery left after YOLT I felt betrayed. As I got older and somewhat wiser I became open to
other Bond actors and grew more into a Bond fan than just a Connery Bond fan....but I never particularly cared for Moore nor the direction the films took. Loved Dalton and wished he would of had more than just two. Pierce Brosnan was the perfect man for the job at the time and really helped revive the franchise but was done no favors by EON in his last two films and ended up taking the bullet for them in the end. If anyone has seen "No Escape" there is no doubt that with good writing that Brosnan, even with his Bond days model looks would have been capable of giving a harder more world weary performance as Bond. I like Craig very much on many levels and hope he opts to do at least one more after SPECTOR.
Now, that is really hard to take as anything but racist... sorry! Bond is not a "white man". It's a literary character. There are very many ways to express the character artistically. Bob Dylan is a man but in a movie was played by a female actor. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't see it as racist. Harry Potter is a literary character and white. If the franchise is rebooted having a black harry Potter would just be weird and wouldn't feel right. My opinion.
I think it is inevitable that there will be a black james Bond in my lifetime. Will I be hugely upset at it, no. But I'll still feel it is out of place and not seem right. Again my opinion don't have to agree with it. Maybe it does have to do with how I "visualize" the character will reading. But also In most books if a character is black they will say so. It's not assumed
lotus is a 100% right!
Harry Potter is different. They have filmed the whole series, all movies with the same actor. If they ever wanted to re-do it, they could pick an Asian, an Indian, or a Latino, and the choice should be judged on its own merits.
The latest movie version of the Annie musical had and African-American instead of the European-American in it. This is not about being PC, it just reflects the world we are living in. I'd rather have a good black Bond than a white one. And if all things are equal, I just don't care what colour is 007's skin.
but still, I'm really sick of this we are alle the same - talk.
a lot of people call specifically for a black actor as the next Bond, do you call them racists then, too because they see a difference?
I disagree. JK Rowling never says Harry is "white" yet all covers on all of the hundreds of languages have him as white. While I see your point that there have been different actors in Bond. I just see that if they ever cast a black Bond it'll be for PC. To be different. To do something new. Not necessarily because it's the best choice. There are other characters in literature that are black that have had movies. Alex Cross comes to mind. If he was casted white it'd be an uproar.
Now in regards to regulard Bond, I wouldn't at all be adverse to a black actor taking on the role if he was the best person to take on the role. If eon searched high and low for the next Bond actor and decided that at the end of the it that the best person to take on the part happened to be black, then go right ahead. However I think this idea of needing a black Bond because it's 2015 is ridiculous. Furthermore the character of Bond is incredibly specific, more so than say a Jason Bourne or other lead action roles. Bond is very much the character of a white Englishman, with Fleming (and the film series) describing the character in a very specific way, assigning him with certain traits that are clearly outlined. Whilst the interpretation of Bond has changed with the different actors over the years, these characteristics and traits have more or less remained, and thus means that the role is really only suited to a very few actors. Due to this, I suspect that the role of Bond is best suited to a white actor. I don't feel that that is racist, but hey, maybe the whole concept of Bond is racist, even with the changes that have been made to the character today. Though I have to say that Elba would be interesting to see as Bond, but I would still prefer to see someone like Henry Cavill take the part after Craig.
this I think is a good sum up:
• demand for a white actor = racist
• demand for a black actor = "revolutionary"
the main problem is the racist argument that prevents any real discussion
Thanks man
one of the bigger problems resulting from this is that some newspapers actually wrote that Elba is the favourite of all Bond fans (they should have went with "casually interested in Bond-people) and they forget one thing: Daniel Craig is still there and hopefully will stick around...
Today (4th Sept) there's a new Spectre film poster (on mi6-hq site) with DC in a white tuxedo (like Goldfinger film.)
and Daniel Craig is in the credits as CO-PRODUCER. How much more involved can you get ?!
Roll on his 5th film in 2018.
Bond is obviously white-Scottish/Swiss based on his fictional parents, and the character is based on his author Ian Fleming.
(not any actor who is PC flavour-of -the month and will be forgotten in a month for Bond .)
Bleuville.
please sooner
I don't doubt that the role could be adapted for a black man to play the part. But if and when EON goes this route, it should be because the actor in question is a good fit for the role. If the filmakers do it merely to show how progressive they are, the result will not be good (and it will likely destroy the career of the actor in question).
Cheers
However, I do struggle to come to terms with this ferocious campaign for a "Black Bond".
1) Most people don't even want a "Black Bond", they just want Idris Elba. I've found a lot of people are more interested in Elba getting the role as they like him as an actor rather than wanting a "Black Bond" for any revolutionary, cultural significance.
2) There's no such campaign for a black Doctor Who or a black Superman etc. I think this links to my first point really, but I guess I just don't see why Bond seems to be getting so much attention over the subject when other long running franchises or characters escape scrutiny
3) The press seem so obsessed with finding stories about the subject. An actor gets hired to do a Bond audio tape and they all say he's the first "Black Bond" when if they had done their research, they would have found he wasn't. Horowitz recommends another black actor for Bond but it's twisted to make it sound like people with connections to Bond don't want a black actor.
It should be a non-story really. I'm fed up of all the speculation about Elba and all the discussion about race. Actors should be hired because of their ability and not because of their skin colour and the same should go for how they are remembered. With the intensity of the coverage however, I am worried that if Elba doesn't get the role, there will be further uproar and criticism of the Bond franchise when I'm sure skin colour would never come into it.
Hopefully that doesn't happen however and for now, I'm just focusing on SPECTRE and what I think is going to be a great film. There's plenty of time to sort out the issue of the next Bond but the press shouldn't be doing it now when there's a new film coming very shortly.
As for Idris Elba, although I wouldn't be opposed per se (hey, it could work, worked for Moneypenny and Felix Leiter),if you ask me, I would still prefer a white actor. I know James Bond is a fictional character, but in my mind it would be like a black actor playing Napoleon. Bond is too iconic to change race, gender, sexual orientation... If you tinker with those, it would open the door to tinker with everything really. Why not make him an obese guy instead of slim built? drinking all that beer and martinis, it would be more realistic, but it just wouldn't work. What I mean is, I'm first and foremost a fan of the character, books and movies, and the character is very well defined, so I wouldn't change it.