Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited September 2015
It's true, I was buying props a long time before PropStore came along, and you could get items easier and at lower prices than you can today, but as Higgy-bum says, that was also pre-internet before the information was readily available to the masses without any hard work or putting feet onto the street. And it was Christies and Sotheby's that had the high end pieces first, and taking inflation into account, the prices were often higher than PropStores are today because they were the first to offer them to the wider collecting circuit and Joe Public. PropStore saw this gap in the market and jumped in. What they lack is competition, and those few competitors they do have also hike prices up to get a big slice of the cake.
You can also blame their customers. They have a tier of high end buyers that grab the good stuff before it is offered up on their site. They are the ones jacking the prices up too as they offer daft amounts so they can squirrel items into their collection. They reportedly have a sub section on their site which only a few of these high end buyers have access too. So what chance has anyone got when these people want something. It's the introduction of this auction system now, that gives everyone the chance to bid for these previously hidden away gems.
I also know that they buy very low and sell very high too. I've been stung, by selling to them, then seeing what they had it up for the next week. Shocking. But you can still grab bargains from them. I've bought production used items off them recently (non Bond) at a very low price, which I've since had confirmed that they are the hero pieces used by the principal actor and I can add a zero to the price I paid at least. Yeah, it's a rare occurrence, but it has happened.
It's also true that you can still find genuine props and costume items out there if you work on it, but it does take a lot of work and investigation, plus cultivating relationships with the people involved. I've only ever bought one Bond prop from PS, and my collection has loads that I sourced myself, most of them principals and hero props. So with a lot of work and investigation, the best items can still be had without using these prop dealers.
P.s good luck on that lifetime gaurantee, they only sell fakes you could never prove otherwise.
That, I thought was a bold statement and suggests that most of the items they sell are fakes, which isn't true surely. We all know that there are fakes in the prop world that have been circulated by so called reputable dealers. And it's the way they can print their own provenance that concerns me greatly, as this bit of paper is taken for granted as gospel now within the prop community, so they are virtually printing their own money with no governing body to sit over them and check the facts and regulate the claims.
And you can prove otherwise if the claim isn't true, it's been done before with the clapperboards they circulated. And when this was exposed, fair due to PS, they did refund peoples money. That's just one case, obviously if it is an ongoing and larger thing, this makes it harder.
I also want people to be cautious because I know for a fact that some main pieces not "odd pieces" that have been sold as authentic, were in fact copies made by someone for them, which they do because there is no way to prove anything to the contrary.
If this is true and you know it for a fact, then this is a deplorable act and is obviously fraud. You are saying that they knowingly commission fakes to be sold as real props? Has this been proven?
I never purchased from PS so I cannot say anything bad about them.
What I can say is that in over 35 years of collecting the most joy & satisfaction gave me the Bond posters & artwork that I bought directly from collectors or illustrators. I avoid auctions where I can which unfortunately is not always possible... Also I seldom ever win anything as the hammer prices are usually WAY above of what I personally want to invest. Sometimes patience pays off but not always.
Crazy prices for props nowadays, by the way !
propstore have always purposely pushed to make prices as high as possibile and use that bench mark when they sell anything on their website. If you want to know the real price of am item, call them up and try sell them something.
Conversely, try calling them up and making an offer on something they have for sale: All of my most recent non-auction acquisitions from them have been the result of negotiation. Indeed, in some instances, when I've merely expressed interest in a piece they've suggested that if I feel the price is high, they're willing to discuss.
I bought an Item at the last PS Auction and although I knew of all costs beforehand, I'm still a little confused at the 3% Buyers expenses which are charged?? what exactly are these? does anyone know??
All in All-
Hammer price + 20% VAT
20% Buyers Premium +VAT
3% Buyers Expense +VAT
Shipping Extra
Credit Card costs extra
I saw that someone bought a Star Wars Strormtrooper Helmet for 65,000 , I worked out that this guy will have to pay near 95,000 in total for this Item!! pretty heavy. His Buyers expenses will be 1950 quid!!!!! for what???
I don't normally buy at auction, but liked an item so much I had to have it, but won't be doing it too often!!! ) )
I bought an Item at the last PS Auction and although I knew of all costs beforehand, I'm still a little confused at the 3% Buyers expenses which are charged?? what exactly are these? does anyone know??
All in All-
Hammer price + 20% VAT
20% Buyers Premium +VAT
3% Buyers Expense +VAT
Shipping Extra
Credit Card costs extra
I saw that someone bought a Star Wars Strormtrooper Helmet for 65,000 , I worked out that this guy will have to pay near 95,000 in total for this Item!! pretty heavy. His Buyers expenses will be 1950 quid!!!!! for what???
I don't normally buy at auction, but liked an item so much I had to have it, but won't be doing it too often!!! ) )
The 3% buyers expense is an online bidding fee which is very clearly listed in the auction catalogue. To avoid this in future place a postal or faxed absentee bid.
It's true, I was buying props a long time before PropStore came along, and you could get items easier and at lower prices than you can today, but as Higgy-bum says, that was also pre-internet before the information was readily available to the masses without any hard work or putting feet onto the street. And it was Christies and Sotheby's that had the high end pieces first, and taking inflation into account, the prices were often higher than PropStores are today because they were the first to offer them to the wider collecting circuit and Joe Public. PropStore saw this gap in the market and jumped in. What they lack is competition, and those few competitors they do have also hike prices up to get a big slice of the cake.
You can also blame their customers. They have a tier of high end buyers that grab the good stuff before it is offered up on their site. They are the ones jacking the prices up too as they offer daft amounts so they can squirrel items into their collection. They reportedly have a sub section on their site which only a few of these high end buyers have access too. So what chance has anyone got when these people want something. It's the introduction of this auction system now, that gives everyone the chance to bid for these previously hidden away gems.
I also know that they buy very low and sell very high too. I've been stung, by selling to them, then seeing what they had it up for the next week. Shocking. But you can still grab bargains from them. I've bought production used items off them recently (non Bond) at a very low price, which I've since had confirmed that they are the hero pieces used by the principal actor and I can add a zero to the price I paid at least. Yeah, it's a rare occurrence, but it has happened.
It's also true that you can still find genuine props and costume items out there if you work on it, but it does take a lot of work and investigation, plus cultivating relationships with the people involved. I've only ever bought one Bond prop from PS, and my collection has loads that I sourced myself, most of them principals and hero props. So with a lot of work and investigation, the best items can still be had without using these prop dealers.
P.s good luck on that lifetime gaurantee, they only sell fakes you could never prove otherwise.
That, I thought was a bold statement and suggests that most of the items they sell are fakes, which isn't true surely. We all know that there are fakes in the prop world that have been circulated by so called reputable dealers. And it's the way they can print their own provenance that concerns me greatly, as this bit of paper is taken for granted as gospel now within the prop community, so they are virtually printing their own money with no governing body to sit over them and check the facts and regulate the claims.
And you can prove otherwise if the claim isn't true, it's been done before with the clapperboards they circulated. And when this was exposed, fair due to PS, they did refund peoples money. That's just one case, obviously if it is an ongoing and larger thing, this makes it harder.
I also want people to be cautious because I know for a fact that some main pieces not "odd pieces" that have been sold as authentic, were in fact copies made by someone for them, which they do because there is no way to prove anything to the contrary.
If this is true and you know it for a fact, then this is a deplorable act and is obviously fraud. You are saying that they knowingly commission fakes to be sold as real props? Has this been proven?
This is pretty alarming thread, bordering on libel, and I'm surprised it hasn't been pulled by the mods....
Most of it is hardly worth reply, but a couple of points worth making (again)
1)Props have joined the echelons of collectables, like art and coins etc, and as such, have become valuable and attracted investment monies bereft of any interest in the subject matter.
But the great majority of collectors are obsessives for the item/franchise/subject matter.
2) collectors, like car owners, art collectors, even people who wear clothes are of different means; some have millions, others have 10's of pounds they can devote. If you can't accept that, you have something more troublesome in your mind, and should be salivating on every word of Jeremy Corbyn, sanders, etc. Otherwise, wake up and get real.
3) businesses like PS are only successful if they make money and grow, they employ people, generate interest in the subject matter, and help create a market that provides a price for these items. After all a price is just what two or more adults agree on, nothing more. Value is more important, and can be very different from the price things trade at. If you don't like a price, it's because to you, it's not that valuable. To others it may be. And if they are the only one who sees it, then it's unlikely to represent the true value of the object.
For example, the bond items at the latest auction were mixed; some seemed to have gone for prices below their true market value - mainly because people who would value them higher missed the auction perhaps.
Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this a such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
none...
4) - on asp's excellent point on self certification and authentification, that's true, but as the latest auction showed its the "experts" on sites like this one, that operates the true authentication and oversight, and it's a testament to the morality of the auction house, to take these criticisms positively and if obvious, withdraw or re-attribute the item.
So in summary, I'd strongly suggest taking care over libelous comment on the web, and better still devote your energies to politics, turning the UK or US into the socialist mediocrity that would make you happy, for only then will you be happy that nothing has value and everyone can afford everything, but own nothing.
Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this a such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
Paul, for record, I bought the vest. There is effectively no memorabilia from that film, it's a favorite of mine, and so, yes, I was determined to have it. BTW, I considered it a bargain and was prepared to go much higher. Same on the clappers: Also now mine (two of them, anyway) and I find it especially surprising that those didn't go higher (which I was braced for) as they're obviously desirable beyond their 007 connection (indeed, the Bond titles were something of a value-add; I partly just wanted to own a vintage traditional clapper).
I put in a bid for the plaque unaware that early online bids had already pushed it past asinine [EDIT].
Alas, I guess I need to confront Stephen about these all having been created solely to rip the lot of us off. Stupid of them because I've got to think it cost more to replicate some of this stuff than it sold for. On the other hand, maybe I can get them to make a spacesuit for me or go to work in their factory painting Jurassic Park dinosaurs ...
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,762Chief of Staff
This is a pretty alarming thread, bordering on libel, and I'm surprised it hasn't been pulled by the mods...
I did think of doing that but decided to leave it for people to respond...I didn't want people left with an impression that there could be something to this...Alpha has been challenged to back up his claims - and others have posted on their (positive) experiences with Propstore...
Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them...
I did think of doing that but decided to leave it for people to respond...I didn't want people left with an impression that there could be something to this...Alpha has been challenged to back up his claims - and others have posted on their (positive) experiences with Propstore...
Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them"
I find it disturbing that you believe someone would fabricate something of this sort and to what end or what gain I do not know. In a bid to warn fellow ajb memebers to be cautious and vocalise on what i disagree on without having ulterior interests and talking from experience. This has turned from a reasonable conversation into the usual utter nonsense with people taking comments out of context and others who instead of contributing, write complete rubbish about politics and libel. Incidentally outside of using peoples names I am fascinated as to what you would like as proof and wether you think I would put people, colleagues and friends in jeopardy when it is evident by your last comment, that you (sir miles) have a vested interest here.
"Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
Do they? Why? are propstore Bond fans? Are they registered members? Actually what are propstore doing on a blog about 007 fans? Who has been talking to propstore? It seems to me that someone has contacted them externally from the realm of this blog, i would hope other ajbrs reading this might want to have a think about the implications of this and think hard about how they use this blog or what information they share here.
"so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
considering someone said that clapperboards had been sold then found to be fake, (p.s is that libel?) I would disagree. Because if someone had not found out that they were fakes, they would be sitting at home with fake clapperboards that cost a few thousand quid. Which is exactly what I was saying amongst many other points. With that I think that all that needs to be said has and I leave you all to have a think about what has happened here with a very hard Lesson learned.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,762Chief of Staff
IMO there is a fine line between warning others (example: Be careful - their items are not always what stands in the decriptions) and accusing them for deliberately selling fakes and systematically cheating their clients.
These clapperboards may have been fake but they refunded their clients and this is so far the only case, where this has happened with ps. Same happened to Christie's and Bonham's so you can hardly see a pattern.
I don't agree often with Sir Miles but so far, imo he handled the case pretty sensible and keep in mind that AJB is a platform for everyone and must be careful not to get sued for leaving libelous discussions open.
And if I where propstore's advocate, I'd find some offensive parts in your recent posts.
As said, I know where you are coming from but high temper and anger is not always a good adviser
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Do they? Why? are propstore Bond fans? Are they registered members? Actually what are propstore doing on a blog about 007 fans? Who has been talking to propstore? It seems to me that someone has contacted them externally from the realm of this blog, i would hope other ajbrs reading this might want to have a think about the implications of this and think hard about how they use this blog or what information they share here.
AJB is effectively a message board, not a blog: it is not the mouthpiece for a particular individual. In addition to running a pop-culture business, Prop Store are themselves fans of pop culture and, as such, welcome to participate here (though as a matter of course their posts are normally business-related, such as with the MWTGG/Moonraker shirt issue). So what if someone did call their attention to this discussion and invite them to chime-in; it is their right to do so [EDIT].
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,762Chief of Staff
IMO there is a fine line between warning others (example: Be careful - their items are not always what stands in the decriptions) and accusing them for deliberately selling fakes and systematically cheating their clients.
These clapperboards may have been fake but they refunded their clients and this is so far the only case, where this has happened with ps. Same happened to Christie's and Bonham's so you can hardly see a pattern.
I don't agree often with Sir Miles but so far, imo he handled the case pretty sensible and keep in mind that AJB is a platform for everyone and must be careful not to get sued for leaving libelous discussions open.
And if I where propstore's advocate, I'd find some offensive parts in your recent posts.
As said, I know where you are coming from but high temper and anger is not always a good adviser
I'm stunned I can't find fault with this post :v
And it pretty much sums up everything perfectly -{
1. Their inventory (in those films I follow and can be discerning in) seems to match screen seen items much better than other stores
2. They both pledge to reject items they cannot verify and I've seen them do so--I know of someone who presented them a prop identical to one a principal actor had signed elsewhere--what I mean is that actor would know their own props!--and they rejected the item regardless--they would have grabbed it if they were money grubbing
3. Their staff is very polite and helpful at all times
4. Yes, I would buy more of certain items if their prices were lower--but they have to be more costly than eBay and other sites because they have real floor and warehouse space, staff and overhead--but you can talk to them and negotiate and they further stand behind what they ship to fans as has been said
5. We'd have to admit the recent auction hammer prices were exorbitant in many cases but the original reserves and estimates were conservative in many cases as well
I'm grateful to those AJB'ers who are unafraid of letting us know online of shady dealers and shady dealings. So I appreciate the free speech and the sentiment both, but I would do business again with Prop Store.
Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this a such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
Paul, for record, I bought the vest. There is effectively no memorabilia from that film, it's a favorite of mine, and so, yes, I was determined to have it. BTW, I considered it a bargain and was prepared to go much higher. Same on the clappers: Also now mine (two of them, anyway) and I find it especially surprising that those didn't go higher (which I was braced for) as they're obviously desirable beyond their 007 connection (indeed, the Bond titles were something of a value-add; I partly just wanted to own a vintage traditional clapper).
I put in a bid for the plaque unaware that early online bids had already pushed it past asinine [EDIT].
Alas, I guess I need to confront Stephen about these all having been created solely to rip the lot of us off. Stupid of them because I've got to think it cost more to replicate some of this stuff than it sold for. On the other hand, maybe I can get them to make a spacesuit for me or go to work in their factory painting Jurassic Park dinosaurs ...
Hey alan, you know me too well to think I meant any offense.
Indeed I think it's clear I was speaking about personal taste, preference , value etc
"Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this at such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
none..."
In other words, I don't like it, I hate the film, consider it a comedy, not a Bond film, but so what?
It's none of my business!
I'm pleased for you, as it'll be well looked after (well as long as you don't plan on wearing it ! ) in your wonderful collection.
I did think of doing that but decided to leave it for people to respond...I didn't want people left with an impression that there could be something to this...Alpha has been challenged to back up his claims - and others have posted on their (positive) experiences with Propstore...
Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them"
I find it disturbing that you believe someone would fabricate something of this sort and to what end or what gain I do not know. In a bid to warn fellow ajb memebers to be cautious and vocalise on what i disagree on without having ulterior interests and talking from experience. This has turned from a reasonable conversation into the usual utter nonsense with people taking comments out of context and others who instead of contributing, write complete rubbish about politics and libel. Incidentally outside of using peoples names I am fascinated as to what you would like as proof and wether you think I would put people, colleagues and friends in jeopardy when it is evident by your last comment, that you (sir miles) have a vested interest here.
"Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
Do they? Why? are propstore Bond fans? Are they registered members? Actually what are propstore doing on a blog about 007 fans? Who has been talking to propstore? It seems to me that someone has contacted them externally from the realm of this blog, i would hope other ajbrs reading this might want to have a think about the implications of this and think hard about how they use this blog or what information they share here.
"so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
considering someone said that clapperboards had been sold then found to be fake, (p.s is that libel?) I would disagree. Because if someone had not found out that they were fakes, they would be sitting at home with fake clapperboards that cost a few thousand quid. Which is exactly what I was saying amongst many other points. With that I think that all that needs to be said has and I leave you all to have a think about what has happened here with a very hard Lesson learned.
Well wow....
Someone just doesn't get it...
I'll accept that my points on price, value, and what people want to pay for things they like, or even just fancy as an investment, was probably way behind the sort of reasoning and Intellect displayed here... But hey, if you can issue clearly libelous statements then why can't I pontificate a bit?
Seriously, I was trying to help, as was asp and others. Indeed asp pointed out the biggest issue - the phrase implying they mostly sell fakes, didn't come from "someone" - it came from you.
For me, it needs to come down. But that's only my opinion... It's up to the mods.
I for one respect and desire free speech but as this definition implies;
li·bel
ˈlībəl/
noun
1.
LAW
a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, calumny, misrepresentation, scandalmongering; More
the action or crime of publishing a false statement about a person.
"a councilor who sued two national newspapers for libel"
a false and malicious statement about a person.
a thing or circumstance that brings undeserved discredit on a person by misrepresentation.
2.
(in admiralty and ecclesiastical law) a plaintiff's written declaration.
verb
verb: libel; 3rd person present: libels; past tense: libelled; past participle: libelled; gerund or present participle: libelling; past tense: libeled; past participle: libeled; gerund or present participle: libeling
1.
LAW
defame (someone) by publishing a libel.
"she alleged the magazine had libeled her"
synonyms: defame, malign, slander, blacken someone's name, sully someone's reputation, speak ill/evil of, traduce, smear, cast aspersions on, drag someone's name through the mud, besmirch, tarnish, taint, tell lies about, stain, impugn someone's character/integrity, vilify, denigrate, disparage, run down, stigmatize, discredit, slur; More
make a false and malicious statement about.
.... Once it goes to court, your jokey, wassuuuppp attitude dude, won't get you very far....
But hey, if no one " sneaks on ya" and propstore can't read, and next time someone googles " fake props" this thread doesn't come up, you're fine....
Indeed asp pointed out the biggest issue - the phrase implying they mostly sell fakes, didn't come from "someone" - it came from you.
The actual statement was "they only sell fakes [you could never prove otherwise]." No implying, no equivocating.
While there have been several mentions of the fake clapboards -- a situation which Prop Store readily amended -- what more proof is there of fraud -- and, more importantly, deliberate and intentional fraud -- on the part of Prop Store? The boards in question were acquired by them from another party who offered reasonable -- though, in the end, false -- provenance.* There are sometimes pieces attributed to the wrong film but that doesn't make them fake. There were minor mistakes in the last catalog but those I caught were a result of the layout and interactivity function, nothing more. Indeed, when I opened the catalog -- maybe an hour after it went live -- for one reason or another several pieces had already been withdrawn.
*It's possibly worth noting, too, that the perpetrator in question is an expert fraud and that the clapboard situation actually proved positive in the sense that it brought this individual and his activities to light. While he remains active, any serious collector now knows his name and to proceed with caution.
Indeed asp pointed out the biggest issue - the phrase implying they mostly sell fakes, didn't come from "someone" - it came from you.
The actual statement was "they only sell fakes [you could never prove otherwise]." No implying, no equivocating.
While there have been several mentions of the fake clapboards -- a situation which Prop Store readily amended -- what more proof is there of fraud -- and, more importantly, deliberate and intentional fraud -- on the part of Prop Store? The boards in question were acquired by them from another party who offered reasonable -- though, in the end, false -- provenance.* There are sometimes pieces attributed to the wrong film but that doesn't make them fake. There were minor mistakes in the last catalog but those I caught were a result of the layout and interactivity function, nothing more. Indeed, when I opened the catalog -- maybe an hour after it went live -- for one reason or another several pieces had already been withdrawn.
*It's possibly worth noting, too, that the perpetrator in question is an expert fraud and that the clapboard situation actually proved positive in the sense that it brought this individual and his activities to light. While he remains active, any serious collector now knows his name and to proceed with caution.
Thx alan, but I was being polite, and allowing alphaapron an opportunity to retract his comments if he wanted to.. But now you've repeated them again, the Google search engine will have a better chance of finding this immortal thread.
I can see, by the smug, juvenile replies, that there's no helping some so please leave this thread intact and let's sit back and watch the fireworks...
Thx alan, but I was being polite, and allowing alphaapron an opportunity to retract his comments if he wanted to.. But now you've repeated them again, the Google search engine will have a better chance of finding this immortal thread.
Realistically (no pun intended) the word "fake" appears more often on the PS site as a descriptor than anywhere else on the 'Net.
Unless someone is willing to pony-up the requisite fees, this exchange isn't searchable for about another month at which point I don't think anyone will care anymore ...
Comments
You can also blame their customers. They have a tier of high end buyers that grab the good stuff before it is offered up on their site. They are the ones jacking the prices up too as they offer daft amounts so they can squirrel items into their collection. They reportedly have a sub section on their site which only a few of these high end buyers have access too. So what chance has anyone got when these people want something. It's the introduction of this auction system now, that gives everyone the chance to bid for these previously hidden away gems.
I also know that they buy very low and sell very high too. I've been stung, by selling to them, then seeing what they had it up for the next week. Shocking. But you can still grab bargains from them. I've bought production used items off them recently (non Bond) at a very low price, which I've since had confirmed that they are the hero pieces used by the principal actor and I can add a zero to the price I paid at least. Yeah, it's a rare occurrence, but it has happened.
It's also true that you can still find genuine props and costume items out there if you work on it, but it does take a lot of work and investigation, plus cultivating relationships with the people involved. I've only ever bought one Bond prop from PS, and my collection has loads that I sourced myself, most of them principals and hero props. So with a lot of work and investigation, the best items can still be had without using these prop dealers.
Alpha, you said in your statement above that..
That, I thought was a bold statement and suggests that most of the items they sell are fakes, which isn't true surely. We all know that there are fakes in the prop world that have been circulated by so called reputable dealers. And it's the way they can print their own provenance that concerns me greatly, as this bit of paper is taken for granted as gospel now within the prop community, so they are virtually printing their own money with no governing body to sit over them and check the facts and regulate the claims.
And you can prove otherwise if the claim isn't true, it's been done before with the clapperboards they circulated. And when this was exposed, fair due to PS, they did refund peoples money. That's just one case, obviously if it is an ongoing and larger thing, this makes it harder.
If this is true and you know it for a fact, then this is a deplorable act and is obviously fraud. You are saying that they knowingly commission fakes to be sold as real props? Has this been proven?
I never purchased from PS so I cannot say anything bad about them.
What I can say is that in over 35 years of collecting the most joy & satisfaction gave me the Bond posters & artwork that I bought directly from collectors or illustrators. I avoid auctions where I can which unfortunately is not always possible... Also I seldom ever win anything as the hammer prices are usually WAY above of what I personally want to invest. Sometimes patience pays off but not always.
Crazy prices for props nowadays, by the way !
Conversely, try calling them up and making an offer on something they have for sale: All of my most recent non-auction acquisitions from them have been the result of negotiation. Indeed, in some instances, when I've merely expressed interest in a piece they've suggested that if I feel the price is high, they're willing to discuss.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153167017838657.1073741893.653423656&type=1&l=51c81977b7
Great pictures. Thank you for sharing -{
All in All-
Hammer price + 20% VAT
20% Buyers Premium +VAT
3% Buyers Expense +VAT
Shipping Extra
Credit Card costs extra
I saw that someone bought a Star Wars Strormtrooper Helmet for 65,000 , I worked out that this guy will have to pay near 95,000 in total for this Item!! pretty heavy. His Buyers expenses will be 1950 quid!!!!! for what???
I don't normally buy at auction, but liked an item so much I had to have it, but won't be doing it too often!!!
The 3% buyers expense is an online bidding fee which is very clearly listed in the auction catalogue. To avoid this in future place a postal or faxed absentee bid.
Regards
Donk
This is pretty alarming thread, bordering on libel, and I'm surprised it hasn't been pulled by the mods....
Most of it is hardly worth reply, but a couple of points worth making (again)
1)Props have joined the echelons of collectables, like art and coins etc, and as such, have become valuable and attracted investment monies bereft of any interest in the subject matter.
But the great majority of collectors are obsessives for the item/franchise/subject matter.
2) collectors, like car owners, art collectors, even people who wear clothes
3) businesses like PS are only successful if they make money and grow, they employ people, generate interest in the subject matter, and help create a market that provides a price for these items. After all a price is just what two or more adults agree on, nothing more. Value is more important, and can be very different from the price things trade at. If you don't like a price, it's because to you, it's not that valuable. To others it may be. And if they are the only one who sees it, then it's unlikely to represent the true value of the object.
For example, the bond items at the latest auction were mixed; some seemed to have gone for prices below their true market value - mainly because people who would value them higher missed the auction perhaps.
Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this a such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
none...
4) - on asp's excellent point on self certification and authentification, that's true, but as the latest auction showed its the "experts" on sites like this one, that operates the true authentication and oversight, and it's a testament to the morality of the auction house, to take these criticisms positively and if obvious, withdraw or re-attribute the item.
So in summary, I'd strongly suggest taking care over libelous comment on the web, and better still devote your energies to politics, turning the UK or US into the socialist mediocrity that would make you happy, for only then will you be happy that nothing has value and everyone can afford everything, but own nothing.
Cheers
Paul, for record, I bought the vest. There is effectively no memorabilia from that film, it's a favorite of mine, and so, yes, I was determined to have it. BTW, I considered it a bargain and was prepared to go much higher. Same on the clappers: Also now mine (two of them, anyway) and I find it especially surprising that those didn't go higher (which I was braced for) as they're obviously desirable beyond their 007 connection (indeed, the Bond titles were something of a value-add; I partly just wanted to own a vintage traditional clapper).
I put in a bid for the plaque unaware that early online bids had already pushed it past asinine [EDIT].
Alas, I guess I need to confront Stephen about these all having been created solely to rip the lot of us off. Stupid of them because I've got to think it cost more to replicate some of this stuff than it sold for. On the other hand, maybe I can get them to make a spacesuit for me or go to work in their factory painting Jurassic Park dinosaurs ...
I did think of doing that but decided to leave it for people to respond...I didn't want people left with an impression that there could be something to this...Alpha has been challenged to back up his claims - and others have posted on their (positive) experiences with Propstore...
Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them...
Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them"
I find it disturbing that you believe someone would fabricate something of this sort and to what end or what gain I do not know. In a bid to warn fellow ajb memebers to be cautious and vocalise on what i disagree on without having ulterior interests and talking from experience. This has turned from a reasonable conversation into the usual utter nonsense with people taking comments out of context and others who instead of contributing, write complete rubbish about politics and libel. Incidentally outside of using peoples names I am fascinated as to what you would like as proof and wether you think I would put people, colleagues and friends in jeopardy when it is evident by your last comment, that you (sir miles) have a vested interest here.
"Propstore have a right of reply - if they wish...so far they don't want too...and I'm happy to remove anything they wish...so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
Do they? Why? are propstore Bond fans? Are they registered members? Actually what are propstore doing on a blog about 007 fans? Who has been talking to propstore? It seems to me that someone has contacted them externally from the realm of this blog, i would hope other ajbrs reading this might want to have a think about the implications of this and think hard about how they use this blog or what information they share here.
"so far though, it all looks positive for them..."
considering someone said that clapperboards had been sold then found to be fake, (p.s is that libel?) I would disagree. Because if someone had not found out that they were fakes, they would be sitting at home with fake clapperboards that cost a few thousand quid. Which is exactly what I was saying amongst many other points. With that I think that all that needs to be said has and I leave you all to have a think about what has happened here with a very hard Lesson learned.
Do I ? Please explain - via PM if you wish...
The only *vested interest* I have is to keep AJB free from libel...
IMO there is a fine line between warning others (example: Be careful - their items are not always what stands in the decriptions) and accusing them for deliberately selling fakes and systematically cheating their clients.
These clapperboards may have been fake but they refunded their clients and this is so far the only case, where this has happened with ps. Same happened to Christie's and Bonham's so you can hardly see a pattern.
I don't agree often with Sir Miles but so far, imo he handled the case pretty sensible and keep in mind that AJB is a platform for everyone and must be careful not to get sued for leaving libelous discussions open.
And if I where propstore's advocate, I'd find some offensive parts in your recent posts.
As said, I know where you are coming from but high temper and anger is not always a good adviser
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It is probably worth pointing out that Propstore are in fact members here, go to post no:2
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/46356/prop-store-display/
As I said before some love them & some hate them. Personally I would rather deal with them than deal with your average auction house in the UK.
AJB is effectively a message board, not a blog: it is not the mouthpiece for a particular individual. In addition to running a pop-culture business, Prop Store are themselves fans of pop culture and, as such, welcome to participate here (though as a matter of course their posts are normally business-related, such as with the MWTGG/Moonraker shirt issue). So what if someone did call their attention to this discussion and invite them to chime-in; it is their right to do so [EDIT].
I'm stunned I can't find fault with this post
And it pretty much sums up everything perfectly -{
I promise that this won't happen again
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Like many forces of evil, Higgins has been " Unleashed "
1. Their inventory (in those films I follow and can be discerning in) seems to match screen seen items much better than other stores
2. They both pledge to reject items they cannot verify and I've seen them do so--I know of someone who presented them a prop identical to one a principal actor had signed elsewhere--what I mean is that actor would know their own props!--and they rejected the item regardless--they would have grabbed it if they were money grubbing
3. Their staff is very polite and helpful at all times
4. Yes, I would buy more of certain items if their prices were lower--but they have to be more costly than eBay and other sites because they have real floor and warehouse space, staff and overhead--but you can talk to them and negotiate and they further stand behind what they ship to fans as has been said
5. We'd have to admit the recent auction hammer prices were exorbitant in many cases but the original reserves and estimates were conservative in many cases as well
I'm grateful to those AJB'ers who are unafraid of letting us know online of shady dealers and shady dealings. So I appreciate the free speech and the sentiment both, but I would do business again with Prop Store.
Thank heavens for that
I had to have a lie down in a dark room straight after
Hey alan, you know me too well to think I meant any offense.
Indeed I think it's clear I was speaking about personal taste, preference , value etc
"Other items were simply ridiculous (IMHO) - the sellers Cr67 corset was to me laughable. Nearly £2k all in for that when the clappers went for the same, is just dumbfounding to me. But it seems two or more people valued this at such a large amount of money. Other than suggesting they test their sanity, or take classes in good taste, what right do I have to complain about the price?
none..."
In other words, I don't like it, I hate the film, consider it a comedy, not a Bond film, but so what?
It's none of my business!
I'm pleased for you, as it'll be well looked after (well as long as you don't plan on wearing it ! ) in your wonderful collection.
Semper fi.... -{
Well wow....
Someone just doesn't get it...
I'll accept that my points on price, value, and what people want to pay for things they like, or even just fancy as an investment, was probably way behind the sort of reasoning and Intellect displayed here... But hey, if you can issue clearly libelous statements then why can't I pontificate a bit?
Seriously, I was trying to help, as was asp and others. Indeed asp pointed out the biggest issue - the phrase implying they mostly sell fakes, didn't come from "someone" - it came from you.
For me, it needs to come down. But that's only my opinion... It's up to the mods.
I for one respect and desire free speech but as this definition implies;
li·bel
ˈlībəl/
noun
1.
LAW
a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, calumny, misrepresentation, scandalmongering; More
the action or crime of publishing a false statement about a person.
"a councilor who sued two national newspapers for libel"
a false and malicious statement about a person.
a thing or circumstance that brings undeserved discredit on a person by misrepresentation.
2.
(in admiralty and ecclesiastical law) a plaintiff's written declaration.
verb
verb: libel; 3rd person present: libels; past tense: libelled; past participle: libelled; gerund or present participle: libelling; past tense: libeled; past participle: libeled; gerund or present participle: libeling
1.
LAW
defame (someone) by publishing a libel.
"she alleged the magazine had libeled her"
synonyms: defame, malign, slander, blacken someone's name, sully someone's reputation, speak ill/evil of, traduce, smear, cast aspersions on, drag someone's name through the mud, besmirch, tarnish, taint, tell lies about, stain, impugn someone's character/integrity, vilify, denigrate, disparage, run down, stigmatize, discredit, slur; More
make a false and malicious statement about.
.... Once it goes to court, your jokey, wassuuuppp attitude dude, won't get you very far....
But hey, if no one " sneaks on ya" and propstore can't read, and next time someone googles " fake props" this thread doesn't come up, you're fine....
Wassuuuppp....
Do we really want to know what you've done in that Darkroom? :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No...but it involved hugging green trainers and crying a lot
Such good sport!
The actual statement was "they only sell fakes [you could never prove otherwise]." No implying, no equivocating.
While there have been several mentions of the fake clapboards -- a situation which Prop Store readily amended -- what more proof is there of fraud -- and, more importantly, deliberate and intentional fraud -- on the part of Prop Store? The boards in question were acquired by them from another party who offered reasonable -- though, in the end, false -- provenance.* There are sometimes pieces attributed to the wrong film but that doesn't make them fake. There were minor mistakes in the last catalog but those I caught were a result of the layout and interactivity function, nothing more. Indeed, when I opened the catalog -- maybe an hour after it went live -- for one reason or another several pieces had already been withdrawn.
*It's possibly worth noting, too, that the perpetrator in question is an expert fraud and that the clapboard situation actually proved positive in the sense that it brought this individual and his activities to light. While he remains active, any serious collector now knows his name and to proceed with caution.
Thx alan, but I was being polite, and allowing alphaapron an opportunity to retract his comments if he wanted to.. But now you've repeated them again, the Google search engine will have a better chance of finding this immortal thread.
I can see, by the smug, juvenile replies, that there's no helping some so please leave this thread intact and let's sit back and watch the fireworks...
Wassuuuppp...
Realistically (no pun intended) the word "fake" appears more often on the PS site as a descriptor than anywhere else on the 'Net.
Unless someone is willing to pony-up the requisite fees, this exchange isn't searchable for about another month at which point I don't think anyone will care anymore ...