I'm surprised that quite a few people here are so critical of Syriza. We should realise that this is probably the first party that dared to address corruption in a serious way. Also, their anti-austerity stance is supported by most economists – extreme austerity leads nowhere. It only makes the poor pay rich people’s debts.
I'm not too sure anyone thinks that Greece's economic woes are caused by 'rich people's debts' - but in any case extreme austerity wouldn't solve the problem. Without a whole sale reform of thinking in Greece the same issues will recur regarding tax evasion (or do i mean tax avoidance?)
I'm surprised that quite a few people here are so critical of Syriza. We should realise that this is probably the first party that dared to address corruption in a serious way. Also, their anti-austerity stance is supported by most economists – extreme austerity leads nowhere. It only makes the poor pay rich people’s debts.
The problem with Syriza is that they've started like this:
"I have a house - I have debt but I am not paying you anything back.
I am not making any efforts to raise my income and my financial situation because I am poor
Now give me more money so that I can move out of this crap".
The alternatives to austerity are none if you don't have money and noone is giving you any more money.
That's the situation that Greece is in.
Before they get their tax collecting system and public sector in line - every money will be just trown into a black hole. So these reforms are crucial and none of the Greek governments made efforts to change this - and Syriza started that way, too.
Since 4 weeks the tone has changed - let's hope that they do what they say.
As for the rich: They have not become rich because they where paying for the poor.
They became rich because poor people paid for them with cheap work in general.
So the poor ALWAYS pay for the country - sad thing.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Although I do find it funny, some people coming out to defend Bankers.
As they have done more damage to the world, by destroying countrys and
Lives than Isis has done. Yet, none have been charged with any real offences
( Treason, for instance)
I predict this will happen again and in about 15 years, just long enough for
People to forget how bad it was, and calls to put an end to any regulations.
That's what has happened in the past, and it will happen again.
One definition of madness is to do the same thing over again and expect a
different result. but it's what our leaders keep doing.
Time for a bit of Anarchy ! ) I also think that as most politicians are multi,
Multi millionaires, they want the banks protected as they don't want to lose any
of their money, and as a bonus they get the unemployed, disabled and low paid
workers to pay the debt. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Ah, the moral dilemma faced by the average AJBer when he tiptoes into the real world.
Option 1 - sell the Aston, the Rolexs, the overpriced Tom Ford. Damn the overindulged film stars earning £20,000,000 for less than a year's work, the Broccolis with their billions and their advertising tie-ins, the big business of Sony, the Flemings and their bank. Damn them all. Time to look after the poor and downtrodden. Give anarchy a chance.
Option 2 - those silly buggers brought their problems on themselves and anyway, I'm alright, Jack, sort of. And SPECTRE's out in less than two months
.
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
Ah, the moral dilemma faced by the average AJBer when he tiptoes into the real world.
Option 1 - sell the Aston, the Rolexs, the overpriced Tom Ford. Damn the overindulged film stars earning £20,000,000 for less than a year's work, the Broccolis with their billions and their advertising tie-ins, the big business of Sony, the Flemings and their bank. Damn them all. Time to look after the poor and downtrodden. Give anarchy a chance.
Option 2 - those silly buggers brought their problems on themselves and anyway, I'm alright, Jack, sort of. And SPECTRE's out in less than two months
.
Brilliant as always, David! ) -{
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I too am a big fan of David's -{ ( and I mean this as a complement ), where as I and
many would worry about posting something, which might "Offend" ( probably too strong
a word) David just fires from the hip, and tells it like it is. I especially love his thoughts on
the novels. He actually expresses many of my opinions but, I'm too "shy" to cause any offence. )
I always imagine him as Geoffrey Boycott. -{ and once again if David reads this it is a Complement. {[]
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
I too am a big fan of David's -{ ( and I mean this as a complement ), where as I and
many would worry about posting something, which might "Offend" ( probably too strong
a word) David just fires from the hip, and tells it like it is. I especially love his thoughts on
the novels. He actually expresses many of my opinions but, I'm too "shy" to cause any offence. )
I always imagine him as Geoffrey Boycott. -{ and once again if David reads this it is a Complement. {[]
I'm a David Schofield fan too. I recall seeing his name in The Times in 2008 in an article gauging the fan reaction to Sebastian Faulks' Devil May Care. We were both on CBn back then (where 'Silhouette Man' started out in 2002) and I think they quoted David as saying it was an awful book or something like that! )
I like David's honesty as well and he is one of the few members on Bond fora to actually use his own name while the rest of us hide behind our chosen usernames. He sticks to his convictions and that is a very admirable trait these days. My name's pretty easy to get from my blog now admittedly. In fact if you type my real name into Google "james bond" comes up beside it on the predictive results function! )
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I'm surprised that quite a few people here are so critical of Syriza. We should realise that this is probably the first party that dared to address corruption in a serious way. Also, their anti-austerity stance is supported by most economists – extreme austerity leads nowhere. It only makes the poor pay rich people’s debts.
The problem with Syriza is that they've started like this:
"I have a house - I have debt but I am not paying you anything back.
I am not making any efforts to raise my income and my financial situation because I am poor
Now give me more money so that I can move out of this crap".
The alternatives to austerity are none if you don't have money and noone is giving you any more money.
That's the situation that Greece is in.
Before they get their tax collecting system and public sector in line - every money will be just trown into a black hole. So these reforms are crucial and none of the Greek gouvernments made efforts to change this - and Syriza started that way, too.
Since 4 weeks the tone has changed - let's hope that they do what they say.
As for the rich: They have not become rich because they where paying for the poor.
They became rich because poor people paid for them with cheap work in general.
So the poor ALWAYS pay for the country - sad thing.
Well, do you think it will help if the person sells their house to pay their debt and then ends up destitute, jobless and homeless? It is certainly sad that Greece's creditors (including the EU) expect the poor to pay for the country's debts. Why not be consistent and sell all the poor Greeks into slavery? That would solve the problem!
There is no question that the level of corruption and tax evasion there is unacceptable, so you need strong policing to curb the problem. More and more austerity will only encourage right-wing extremism, and we have already seen the results of fascism and Nazism in Europe and worldwide. Greece is certainly responsible for its problems, but so are the creditors, and it's time they took responsibility too.
Well, do you think it will help if the person sells their house to pay their debt and then ends up destitute, jobless and homeless?
Well, the person could make ANY efforts to raise some or more income to get over the situation.
So far, Greece insisted to move on like it was - and let others pay for it because nobody was willing to give them any money anymore.
And to cut many unnecessary spendings would be another way to improve their situation.
It is certainly sad that Greece's creditors (including the EU) expect the poor to pay for the country's debts.
No the creditors expect the country of Greece to pay back the national debts.
But they had and still have any chance to improve their economic situation but all starts with a working administration. And this btw does not cost anything. They have (more than) enough civil servants and everybody offered them help.
For example Germany offered them to send over hundreds of tax specialists, the EU offered them the greek civil servants - nothing has been accepted.
More and more austerity will only encourage right-wing extremism, and we have already seen the results of fascism and Nazism in Europe and worldwide.
It's not the austerity (which is also propaganda imo) that's responsible for this. That's also propaganda.
Right-wing extremism and fascism can be seen (unfortunately) in many countries particularly in those which are much better off than Greece.
Greece is certainly responsible for its problems, but so are the creditors, and it's time they took responsibility too.
Tell that to the heads of states, which have been running to meeting after meeting, spending nights on trying to find ways out of the trouble while the greek leaders where late, badly prepared and sometimes did not show up at all (and where caught brunching with the team somewhere else). Nobody has received more support and attention in the last 4 years and Greece showed only little gratitude for that.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
"Tell that to the heads of states, which have been running to meeting after meeting, spending nights on trying to find ways out of the trouble while the greek leaders where late, badly prepared and sometimes did not show up at all (and where caught brunching with the team somewhere else). Nobody has received more support and attention in the last 4 years and Greece showed only little gratitude for that."
Is there any evidence for that (Greek leaders being late)? What we have seen on the news (and I'm talking about non-Greek media, either farily impartial, or often very conservative) is that the creditors wanted to "punish" the Greek government for daring to hold a referendum. By now it should be quite clear to everyone that Greece will never be able to repay its debts.
Is there any evidence for that (Greek leaders being late)? What we have seen on the news (and I'm talking about non-Greek media, either farily impartial, or often very conservative) is that the creditors wanted to "punish" the Greek government for daring to hold a referendum. By now it should be quite clear to everyone that Greece will never be able to repay its debts.
Various credible sources incl. Mr. Schulz himself have confirmed that.
Yes, punishing greek people for voting Syriza and for holding the referendum (which was ridiculous imo) are parts of the Varoufakis strategy to move from the real problem and the people that screwed up everything.
Rule nr. 1: If you want to distract from your own faults - tell your people that you are "under attack" from outside and they'll stand with you.
Jag, with all respect:
I don't know which country you are from but you should remember that every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere.
That may happen at a later point of time.
But if the greek debts are cut now without conditions - guess what will happen?
Within short time, greek government will amass new debts in order to keep things like they are.
So they bring their civil service and country in line (with the help of others) i call it do the homework and everything else will be sorted later.
The problem is not that greek can't pay for their interest. The problem is, that the greek state does not collect taxes and does not do anything to strengthen their economy!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The whole Greek saga ,has been a foul up from day one,and as per usual its the poor people on the bottom of the pecking order,left to take it in the ass . The Greeks ,are an honourable people ,but led by fools at the top .The EU is led by greedy fools ,who let the Greeks join "THE CLUB" .Now like any CLUB, there has to be a set of rules to abide by .These rules should have been enforced,before any one was allowed to sign on the dotted line ."So you all retire at 55 ,well we retire at 65 here ,so if you want to join the CUB ? you have to play by the same rules ".(just one example) don't get me wrong ,if our govt said ,ok you can pack up work at 55,dont pay all your taxes ,of course ,we all would do it . Its not the Greek man in the streets fault
Lions led by donkeys ,springs to mind 8-)
Yep, and instead of stopping the money-pissing (which they call austerity) they want more money to do the same thing - without conditions.
And if they don't get the money, they hold their entire population as hostages (because Europe won't let them down), the germans are the villains and stories about revenge (for electing Syriza and holding the referendum) and suppression are spread.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Im not bashing our German friends here (I have German relatives) but when you go to Greece ,all the taxis are Mercs , I know they are not the top of the range ones :007) 8-) ,but I could never afford a Merc ,nor could my parents or in laws ,it does make you wonder ,who is paying for all this .
Is there any evidence for that (Greek leaders being late)? What we have seen on the news (and I'm talking about non-Greek media, either farily impartial, or often very conservative) is that the creditors wanted to "punish" the Greek government for daring to hold a referendum. By now it should be quite clear to everyone that Greece will never be able to repay its debts.
Various credible sources incl. Mr. Schulz himself have confirmed that.
Yes, punishing greek people for voting Syriza and for holding the referendum (which was ridiculous imo) are parts of the Varoufakis strategy to move from the real problem and the people that screwed up everything.
Rule nr. 1: If you want to distract from your own faults - tell your people that you are "under attack" from outside and they'll stand with you.
Jag, with all respect:
I don't know which country you are from but you should remember that every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere.
That may happen at a later point of time.
But if the greek debts are cut now without conditions - guess what will happen?
Within short time, greek gouvernment will amass new debts in order to keep things like they are.
So they bring their civil service and country in line (with the help of others) i call it do the homework and everything else will be sorted later.
The problem is not that greek can't pay for their interest. The problem is, that the greek state does not collect taxes and does not do anything to strengthen their economy!
I like the phrase "various credible sources". Which ones? And who is Mr Schulz? A friend of Mr White's perhaps?
Bottom line is, you can only do so much to impoverish the population. Push any further, and you will get a revolution. They tend to be bloody.
As far as I can see, the Syriza government is the first one that has tackled corruption and tax evasion. It won't be all fixed in a day - or even a year - though.
Also, not sure where you got the idea that the debt should be cut "without condition". There are always conditions.
Finally, here's what is wrong with the system: you say that "every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere". Thing is, it shouldn't be! It should be paid by those who caused it - international institutions of financial oppression that are at least half-responsible for the Greek crisis. And guess what - their officials don't even pay taxes - despite their hugely inflated salaries: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/may/29/christine-lagarde-pays-no-tax
That, in my opinion, removes any right for them to preach to anyone how they should pay taxes. If the rich do not, why should the poor? The whole system is broken - Karl Marx was right after all.
Martin Schulz is the president of the European Parlament.
Not sure if it makes sense to continue the discussion as you don't even know who he is.....
You still don't get the point.
Nobody wants to impoverish greek people but as long as the greek government is not willing to get their public service in order the only way is to cut and cut and cut.
Impoverishing is not the correct term: Greece has been living for decades now by blowing loans from investors and states and other financial help and are now upset and probably surprised because this can't continue forever.
And the logic to be mad at the people who gave them lots of money and still are helping them instead of being after the rich who don't pay their taxes and the lazy public servants is behind me.
If that's Karl Marx - I certainly did not understand a lot!
So instead of criticizing everything, what is your suggestion out of the misery and will your government (thus taxpayers) pay for it?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Finally, here's what is wrong with the system: you say that "every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere". Thing is, it shouldn't be! It should be paid by those who caused it - international institutions of financial oppression that are at least half-responsible for the Greek crisis.
So the greek gouvernment lent money from these "international institutions of financial oppression" and promised to pay these loans back.
Other "international institutions of financial oppression" helped them out when nobody else was willing to give them any more money.
And these are now at least half-responsible for the greek crisis?
You certainly love Karl Marx, don't you?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Let's say I find Marx useful. His ideas how to fix the problems of capitalism were not as good as he expected, but his analysis of those problems still holds true.
Funny how you don't see a contradiction when rich people who don't pay taxes insist that the poor do. And how you don't see that the easy credit extended to Greece by those who well knew it was not sustainable is actually the lenders' problem too.
Let's say I find Marx useful. His ideas how to fix the problems of capitalism were not as good as he expected, but his analysis of those problems still holds true.
Funny how you don't see a contradiction when rich people who don't pay taxes insist that the poor do. And how you don't see that the easy credit extended to Greece by those who well knew it was not sustainable is actually the lenders' problem too.
So instead of criticizing everything, what is your suggestion out of the misery and will your government (thus taxpayers) pay for it?
You contradict yourself!
The 2nd credit programme was finished earlier because greece did not want to follow the conditions which where in the contract.
So not giving them any more money is impoverishment of the greek people so you say.
And how you don't see that the easy credit extended to Greece by those who well knew it was not sustainable is actually the lenders' problem too.
Offering them new credit by the conditions of getting their budget in line is austerity that you criticise as well.
Keep in mind that Greece is a souvereign state and not a private person - so what can we do?
Any cut of debts will mean that the taxpayers (lots of poor people btw) in other countries will have to pay because their countires guaranteed for these sums.
Any "money for free" will be mostly sucked up by the corrupt greek government which consists by your definition of rich people and the people who pay for it, see above.
Any credit will be criticized by yourself because the lenders are to blame if they give them credit at all.
Giving them nothing will lead to a bloody revolution and the rise of right-wing parties.
What is your suggestion? And would you personally and your country pay for it?
And how you don't see that the easy credit extended to Greece by those who well knew it was not sustainable is actually the lenders' problem too.
Easy credit??
The second credit programme was given them with precise conditions which the greek government did not follow and where called "austerity"
It was not an easy credit - there where lots of discussions in Europe if and how this should be done.
The alternative would have been the crash of the Euro which may have put a lot more rich and poor people into poverty - remember what the downfall of a single US Bank did in 2008. And we are talking about a European country here.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It doesn't look like either of us has a solution that would be acceptable to everyone. That's because whatever is done, someone will be hit. That's why I think it only makes sense that it is those who can afford it that are hit, and not the poor.
Comments
Oh, I'm not that right-wing! I'm a conservative politically (like you)!
Brilliant! You really should have been a scriptwriter, TP!
The problem with Syriza is that they've started like this:
"I have a house - I have debt but I am not paying you anything back.
I am not making any efforts to raise my income and my financial situation because I am poor
Now give me more money so that I can move out of this crap".
The alternatives to austerity are none if you don't have money and noone is giving you any more money.
That's the situation that Greece is in.
Before they get their tax collecting system and public sector in line - every money will be just trown into a black hole. So these reforms are crucial and none of the Greek governments made efforts to change this - and Syriza started that way, too.
Since 4 weeks the tone has changed - let's hope that they do what they say.
As for the rich: They have not become rich because they where paying for the poor.
They became rich because poor people paid for them with cheap work in general.
So the poor ALWAYS pay for the country - sad thing.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
As they have done more damage to the world, by destroying countrys and
Lives than Isis has done. Yet, none have been charged with any real offences
( Treason, for instance)
I predict this will happen again and in about 15 years, just long enough for
People to forget how bad it was, and calls to put an end to any regulations.
That's what has happened in the past, and it will happen again.
One definition of madness is to do the same thing over again and expect a
different result. but it's what our leaders keep doing.
Time for a bit of Anarchy !
Multi millionaires, they want the banks protected as they don't want to lose any
of their money, and as a bonus they get the unemployed, disabled and low paid
workers to pay the debt.
Option 1 - sell the Aston, the Rolexs, the overpriced Tom Ford. Damn the overindulged film stars earning £20,000,000 for less than a year's work, the Broccolis with their billions and their advertising tie-ins, the big business of Sony, the Flemings and their bank. Damn them all. Time to look after the poor and downtrodden. Give anarchy a chance.
Option 2 - those silly buggers brought their problems on themselves and anyway, I'm alright, Jack, sort of. And SPECTRE's out in less than two months
.
Brilliant as always, David!
many would worry about posting something, which might "Offend" ( probably too strong
a word) David just fires from the hip, and tells it like it is. I especially love his thoughts on
the novels. He actually expresses many of my opinions but, I'm too "shy" to cause any offence.
I always imagine him as Geoffrey Boycott. -{ and once again if David reads this it is a Complement. {[]
I'm a David Schofield fan too. I recall seeing his name in The Times in 2008 in an article gauging the fan reaction to Sebastian Faulks' Devil May Care. We were both on CBn back then (where 'Silhouette Man' started out in 2002) and I think they quoted David as saying it was an awful book or something like that!
I like David's honesty as well and he is one of the few members on Bond fora to actually use his own name while the rest of us hide behind our chosen usernames. He sticks to his convictions and that is a very admirable trait these days. My name's pretty easy to get from my blog now admittedly. In fact if you type my real name into Google "james bond" comes up beside it on the predictive results function!
Well, do you think it will help if the person sells their house to pay their debt and then ends up destitute, jobless and homeless? It is certainly sad that Greece's creditors (including the EU) expect the poor to pay for the country's debts. Why not be consistent and sell all the poor Greeks into slavery? That would solve the problem!
There is no question that the level of corruption and tax evasion there is unacceptable, so you need strong policing to curb the problem. More and more austerity will only encourage right-wing extremism, and we have already seen the results of fascism and Nazism in Europe and worldwide. Greece is certainly responsible for its problems, but so are the creditors, and it's time they took responsibility too.
Well, the person could make ANY efforts to raise some or more income to get over the situation.
So far, Greece insisted to move on like it was - and let others pay for it because nobody was willing to give them any money anymore.
And to cut many unnecessary spendings would be another way to improve their situation.
So, do you expect poor people from other contries to pack for the greek debts?
No the creditors expect the country of Greece to pay back the national debts.
But they had and still have any chance to improve their economic situation but all starts with a working administration. And this btw does not cost anything. They have (more than) enough civil servants and everybody offered them help.
For example Germany offered them to send over hundreds of tax specialists, the EU offered them the greek civil servants - nothing has been accepted.
That's propaganda. Nobody wants to subjugate the greek people.
It's not the austerity (which is also propaganda imo) that's responsible for this. That's also propaganda.
Right-wing extremism and fascism can be seen (unfortunately) in many countries particularly in those which are much better off than Greece.
Tell that to the heads of states, which have been running to meeting after meeting, spending nights on trying to find ways out of the trouble while the greek leaders where late, badly prepared and sometimes did not show up at all (and where caught brunching with the team somewhere else). Nobody has received more support and attention in the last 4 years and Greece showed only little gratitude for that.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Is there any evidence for that (Greek leaders being late)? What we have seen on the news (and I'm talking about non-Greek media, either farily impartial, or often very conservative) is that the creditors wanted to "punish" the Greek government for daring to hold a referendum. By now it should be quite clear to everyone that Greece will never be able to repay its debts.
Various credible sources incl. Mr. Schulz himself have confirmed that.
Yes, punishing greek people for voting Syriza and for holding the referendum (which was ridiculous imo) are parts of the Varoufakis strategy to move from the real problem and the people that screwed up everything.
Rule nr. 1: If you want to distract from your own faults - tell your people that you are "under attack" from outside and they'll stand with you.
Jag, with all respect:
I don't know which country you are from but you should remember that every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere.
That may happen at a later point of time.
But if the greek debts are cut now without conditions - guess what will happen?
Within short time, greek government will amass new debts in order to keep things like they are.
So they bring their civil service and country in line (with the help of others) i call it do the homework and everything else will be sorted later.
The problem is not that greek can't pay for their interest. The problem is, that the greek state does not collect taxes and does not do anything to strengthen their economy!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Lions led by donkeys ,springs to mind 8-)
And if they don't get the money, they hold their entire population as hostages (because Europe won't let them down), the germans are the villains and stories about revenge (for electing Syriza and holding the referendum) and suppression are spread.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I like the phrase "various credible sources". Which ones? And who is Mr Schulz? A friend of Mr White's perhaps?
Bottom line is, you can only do so much to impoverish the population. Push any further, and you will get a revolution. They tend to be bloody.
As far as I can see, the Syriza government is the first one that has tackled corruption and tax evasion. It won't be all fixed in a day - or even a year - though.
Also, not sure where you got the idea that the debt should be cut "without condition". There are always conditions.
Finally, here's what is wrong with the system: you say that "every cut of debts are paid by taxpayers somewhere". Thing is, it shouldn't be! It should be paid by those who caused it - international institutions of financial oppression that are at least half-responsible for the Greek crisis. And guess what - their officials don't even pay taxes - despite their hugely inflated salaries: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/may/29/christine-lagarde-pays-no-tax
That, in my opinion, removes any right for them to preach to anyone how they should pay taxes. If the rich do not, why should the poor? The whole system is broken - Karl Marx was right after all.
Not sure if it makes sense to continue the discussion as you don't even know who he is.....
You still don't get the point.
Nobody wants to impoverish greek people but as long as the greek government is not willing to get their public service in order the only way is to cut and cut and cut.
Impoverishing is not the correct term: Greece has been living for decades now by blowing loans from investors and states and other financial help and are now upset and probably surprised because this can't continue forever.
And the logic to be mad at the people who gave them lots of money and still are helping them instead of being after the rich who don't pay their taxes and the lazy public servants is behind me.
If that's Karl Marx - I certainly did not understand a lot!
So instead of criticizing everything, what is your suggestion out of the misery and will your government (thus taxpayers) pay for it?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
So the greek gouvernment lent money from these "international institutions of financial oppression" and promised to pay these loans back.
Other "international institutions of financial oppression" helped them out when nobody else was willing to give them any more money.
And these are now at least half-responsible for the greek crisis?
You certainly love Karl Marx, don't you?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Funny how you don't see a contradiction when rich people who don't pay taxes insist that the poor do. And how you don't see that the easy credit extended to Greece by those who well knew it was not sustainable is actually the lenders' problem too.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
You contradict yourself!
The 2nd credit programme was finished earlier because greece did not want to follow the conditions which where in the contract.
So not giving them any more money is impoverishment of the greek people so you say.
Offering them new credit by the conditions of getting their budget in line is austerity that you criticise as well.
Keep in mind that Greece is a souvereign state and not a private person - so what can we do?
Any cut of debts will mean that the taxpayers (lots of poor people btw) in other countries will have to pay because their countires guaranteed for these sums.
Any "money for free" will be mostly sucked up by the corrupt greek government which consists by your definition of rich people and the people who pay for it, see above.
Any credit will be criticized by yourself because the lenders are to blame if they give them credit at all.
Giving them nothing will lead to a bloody revolution and the rise of right-wing parties.
What is your suggestion? And would you personally and your country pay for it?
Easy credit??
The second credit programme was given them with precise conditions which the greek government did not follow and where called "austerity"
It was not an easy credit - there where lots of discussions in Europe if and how this should be done.
The alternative would have been the crash of the Euro which may have put a lot more rich and poor people into poverty - remember what the downfall of a single US Bank did in 2008. And we are talking about a European country here.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!