You see, what we have with these two movies is that one has all the flaws and virtues the other lacks. And that tends to happen with the films of late.
So GE has the Cold War theme, femme fetales, atmospheric score, but the plot is overcomplicated, no Bond theme really and so on.
TND lacks all of GE's virtues, but has a simple plot, Bond theme used a lot and so on.
TND did have problems, because GE dealt with the end of the Cold War, and the director made it hard to follow that, they would be starting from scratch again and they struggled a bit.
IMO the most exciting one in the series along with Octopussy. Plus, there are no cringeworthy moments like Brosnan hanging updown in a bathroom stall or hilariously freefalling off a cliff. Don't get me wrong, the GE pre-titles could have been great if they removed the above two items.
2. Bond allowed to be Bond and not lectured by every character.
Let Bond decide how much pumping is necessary. Do not call him a misogynist dinosaur, or any number of other self-aware critiques of the Bond character throughout Goldeneye.
3. Bond actually uses his gadget laden car.
What's up with that blue BMW in Goldeneye that barely even got driven? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of his 4-door sedan in TND, but at least he used it to its full capabilities.
4. Better hair-cut.
Lookin' sharp 007!
5. Awesome end credits song.
Goldeneye ends with the lamest, most boring song possible. Did we just watch a Bond movie?
Also, what's with all the Marines on stand by? That was sure a weird ending!
Even though I agree with all your points, I still think GE is superior to TND.
Virgil, what's your ranking of the Brosnan 007 movies (just for knowledge's sake)?
Even though I agree with all your points, I still think GE is superior to TND.
Virgil, what's your ranking of the Brosnan 007 movies (just for knowledge's sake)?
1. TWINE
2. GE
3. DAD
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.
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4. TND
Interesting. Usually it's GE which shows up as people's fave Brosnan 007 film, with DAD as the least fave.
I can tell your dislike for TND is strong, given how far you place it below DAD in that post. Does anyone in this site dislike the movie at least almost as much as you?
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Virgil, what's your ranking of the Brosnan 007 movies (just for knowledge's sake)?
1. TWINE
2. GE
3. DAD
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
4. TND
Interesting. Usually it's GE which shows up as people's fave Brosnan 007 film, with DAD as the least fave.
I can tell your dislike for TND is strong, given how far you place it below DAD in that post. Does anyone in this site dislike the movie at least almost as much as you?
GE and DAD are more of a tie... I put GE above because of the tank chase, which I think is superb. TWINE is for me by far the best. The Elektra-Bond relationship is great, the final twist is really surprising...It still has Lara Croft...eh, Christmas Jones there which annoys me, but I generally like it.
You see, what we have with these two movies is that one has all the flaws and virtues the other lacks. And that tends to happen with the films of late.
So GE has the Cold War theme, femme fetales, atmospheric score, but the plot is overcomplicated, no Bond theme really and so on.
TND lacks all of GE's virtues, but has a simple plot, Bond theme used a lot and so on.
GE does outshine TND on many levels (Tank chase vs motorcycle chase) , but TND manages to stay competitive while avoiding any major mistakes. End result is an overall better, more enjoyable Bond film.
I know it's a commonly held truth that GE is by far the best Brosnan film, but the times are a changing. 20 years later GE is showing its age, where TND still feels factory fresh.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
I know it's a commonly held truth that GE is by far the best Brosnan film, but the times are a changing. 20 years later GE is showing its age, where TND still feels factory fresh.
Basically- yeah.
My top '3' listed below are the only Bonds I need be in no particular mood to watch & enjoy 100%, 100% of the time.
If only we could shake the good points from the Brosnan era into one perfect Broz film
My idea of hell
If that's hell what if we stir the bad parts of Bros films into one? )
Moore's eighth film? {:)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
PTS is about it really. I really don't like the non-stop gun action in the final sequence, it's too American. I find the movie overall a bit too silly.
OP makes five valid points I would agree all on. But I would still say GE easily outranks TND despite that. Main reason for me is a GE has a much more original plot and much more intresting characters. 15 minutes into TND and you would have already figured out the entire plot, which is a recycled version of TSWLM and YOLT. Luckily the action in it is great, but I defenitely don't watch it because the story is very engaging or real.
Comments
So GE has the Cold War theme, femme fetales, atmospheric score, but the plot is overcomplicated, no Bond theme really and so on.
TND lacks all of GE's virtues, but has a simple plot, Bond theme used a lot and so on.
TND did have problems, because GE dealt with the end of the Cold War, and the director made it hard to follow that, they would be starting from scratch again and they struggled a bit.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
My idea of hell
1. TWINE
2. GE
3. DAD
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
4. TND
Interesting. Usually it's GE which shows up as people's fave Brosnan 007 film, with DAD as the least fave.
I can tell your dislike for TND is strong, given how far you place it below DAD in that post. Does anyone in this site dislike the movie at least almost as much as you?
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
GE and DAD are more of a tie... I put GE above because of the tank chase, which I think is superb. TWINE is for me by far the best. The Elektra-Bond relationship is great, the final twist is really surprising...It still has Lara Croft...eh, Christmas Jones there which annoys me, but I generally like it.
GE does outshine TND on many levels (Tank chase vs motorcycle chase) , but TND manages to stay competitive while avoiding any major mistakes. End result is an overall better, more enjoyable Bond film.
I know it's a commonly held truth that GE is by far the best Brosnan film, but the times are a changing. 20 years later GE is showing its age, where TND still feels factory fresh.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
My top '3' listed below are the only Bonds I need be in no particular mood to watch & enjoy 100%, 100% of the time.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
If that's hell what if we stir the bad parts of Bros films into one?
Moore's eighth film? {:)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Goldeneye is classier.
"Better make that two."
We Americans love our guns!
But, umm... I don't have one... 8-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
"Better make that two."
YOLT...
TSWLM...
MR...
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Knowledge about Dom Perignon vintages, exotic fish-types, have already slayed the lady, British charm and a tailored suit or turtle-neck!
"Better make that two."
Yes, this. Every word of it.
AJB007 Favorite Film Rankings
Pros and Cons Compendium (50 Years)