Don't Judge Too Harshly...(My Spectre Ramblings)
James Suzuki
New ZealandPosts: 2,406MI6 Agent
This is not one of those, ‘Spectre is going to be a good film’ threads which get closed by a moderator in mere minutes. I have just been thinking about this issue for a few days now, and I wanted to get something off my chest. There is no such thing as a perfect Bond Film, out of the 23 films in this franchise, none of them is perfect. Sure some are closer to the mark than others, but if anyone is sitting in the movie cinema expecting the latest Citizen Kane, they’ll be disappointed. I know I sound cynical but I think we need to acknowledge the Bond films as escapism and fun. Yes, because the word fun can exist in the film industry. We are too quick, the internet and people in general, to judge a film before it is even released. Cinema itself is incredibly subjective. Because face it, there will be things in Spectre which people will not like.
-That fight scene went on for too long.
-The soundtrack in places was jarring and out of place.
-Too much humour! Reminded me like we had returned to the 70’s again.
-Zero Fleming material used.
And I think some of us go in looking for things to hate. We want to moan about the placement of the gun barrel or the acting of the Bond Girls. We then go on to compare the latest 21st century Bond films to our favourite films, let’s see, OHMSS, TLD, etc.
If Spectre does not cause us to have the same level of excitement as we experienced watching those films, then the rating drops in our minds and we fall into the Hate Club.
The reality is that our favourite Bond Films take time to reach the top of our list.
In some respects, a Bond Film is digested over time. My opinion of Skyfall changed after every view I had of it. And my view of CR and QOS changed as well. And I can say this statement as a true Bond Fan, All of the James Bond Films have Merit.
Because those Bond films we cherish the most, for me it’s FYEO, create a world of its own. We don’t just fall for the film itself, but for the time it was released, perhaps the memories we have when that film came out or when we first watched it. Who we were with?
It is the classic ‘Golden Age’ mentality. The past always seems better than the present. And as a Fan Community, Bond Fans are a stubborn lot. We are against the idea of change. Some of us hate it. Yet we can’t expect a 60’s film anymore, with 60’s values and ideas. The beauty of the Bond Franchise is its amazing ability to adapt to different eras. That’s why we it’s still going on after 53 years.
We are very fortunate to have the Bond Series still expanding. How long do you think this community would last if there were no more Bond films anymore? Sure for a little while…
We should be thankful that the Bond Producers seem to show some care for James Bond, and are not just in it for the money. There definitely is a level of thought and care seen in Casino Royale and definitely in Skyfall.
From the trailers and what I’ve seen so far, I can say that Spectre may not be the next holy grail Bond film. And even if it blows you away in the first viewing (as I’m expecting), it will still take time to sit still, compared to the other films.
So don’t judge it to harshly, sure don’t have your expectations too high, but take it for what it is. A lot of money spent on a film for our enjoyment.
Sorry I just had to go out and say that. I am really looking forward to Spectre, and I want everyone else to be as well.
-That fight scene went on for too long.
-The soundtrack in places was jarring and out of place.
-Too much humour! Reminded me like we had returned to the 70’s again.
-Zero Fleming material used.
And I think some of us go in looking for things to hate. We want to moan about the placement of the gun barrel or the acting of the Bond Girls. We then go on to compare the latest 21st century Bond films to our favourite films, let’s see, OHMSS, TLD, etc.
If Spectre does not cause us to have the same level of excitement as we experienced watching those films, then the rating drops in our minds and we fall into the Hate Club.
The reality is that our favourite Bond Films take time to reach the top of our list.
In some respects, a Bond Film is digested over time. My opinion of Skyfall changed after every view I had of it. And my view of CR and QOS changed as well. And I can say this statement as a true Bond Fan, All of the James Bond Films have Merit.
Because those Bond films we cherish the most, for me it’s FYEO, create a world of its own. We don’t just fall for the film itself, but for the time it was released, perhaps the memories we have when that film came out or when we first watched it. Who we were with?
It is the classic ‘Golden Age’ mentality. The past always seems better than the present. And as a Fan Community, Bond Fans are a stubborn lot. We are against the idea of change. Some of us hate it. Yet we can’t expect a 60’s film anymore, with 60’s values and ideas. The beauty of the Bond Franchise is its amazing ability to adapt to different eras. That’s why we it’s still going on after 53 years.
We are very fortunate to have the Bond Series still expanding. How long do you think this community would last if there were no more Bond films anymore? Sure for a little while…
We should be thankful that the Bond Producers seem to show some care for James Bond, and are not just in it for the money. There definitely is a level of thought and care seen in Casino Royale and definitely in Skyfall.
From the trailers and what I’ve seen so far, I can say that Spectre may not be the next holy grail Bond film. And even if it blows you away in the first viewing (as I’m expecting), it will still take time to sit still, compared to the other films.
So don’t judge it to harshly, sure don’t have your expectations too high, but take it for what it is. A lot of money spent on a film for our enjoyment.
Sorry I just had to go out and say that. I am really looking forward to Spectre, and I want everyone else to be as well.
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Comments
I particularly agree with this statement about the last three films. -{
It's a great feeling hearing positive responses from posts.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
So, while I appreciate the sentiment that Bond fans should keep an open mind, I don't agree that criticisms are without merit, nor that some ultimately are shown to have more than others. Given that films by definition are meant to be viewed once (even though today's viewer may choose to view them more than once), their effect should be immediate. So should our assessment of those films. Given that the marketing people all but release the film in the ramp up to the actual premier, too, means that people are bound to form opinions from the information.
The thing is, the Bond series is also experiencing a renaissance. We have not seen this level of general audience excitement since the 1960s, and the budgets -- staggering even by contemporary standards -- means that the filmmakers should be held to a higher standard. They are no longer making second-rate action films, as they more or less did in the 80s and 90s. Thus, the expectations can rise, too. Of course, the more the build up, the greater the fall when it does not work. And while Skyfall, to me, was a good but not great Bond film, it's box office performance suggests Spectre needs to do better on all fronts as a tent pole film.
And I have to actually agree with what you brought up. The returning of past tropes being one of them.
And Critiscm does come with merit. (Cough Cough Die Another Day Cough Cough)
And Yes, Bond series is in a Renaissance and it is a very exciting time to be in!
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
The main negativity is towards the theme song, and to a lesser extent the yellowness of the Mexico scenes and the CGI.
See? Your doing it already?
Mind you, I went with an open mind to some of Brosnans........and look what happened there.....
I don't know that more modern films will take some time for fans to grow into them. I was raised on Sir Rog's era, yet the siliness was a bit too much with the test of time. Thanks to video rental, I watched all the previous ones (and decided SC was the ULTIMATE Bond), then I was there for TD's two forays, liked GE a lot, the rest of PB's not so much... yet when CR arrived, I almost immediately fell in love with it. Sure, I had some issued with the partial reboot, but they paled in comparison to the sheer enjoyment I got out of DC's first outing as the character. To me, it had the perfect blend of action, drama, character portrait (without being too obvious), suspense and stunts.
QoS was a bit of a disappointment (we have extensively discussed the whys in this forum) and SF... well, I will concur that it's a good film, but just an ok Bond film. Too moody at places, too carbon copying things of the past only in the surface, and trying to be too grandiose for its own good. And (SPOILER!!!) - the bad guy gets exactly what he wants.
We'll see about Spectre. I, as all of us, I guess, want it to be great, but will settle for good. At the end of the day, I just want to leave the theatre with two hours of fun, action and enjoyment under my belt, plus some exciting visuals and, of course, wardrobe obsessions...
"The very words I live by."
Finding it really annoying that Spectre hasn't even been released yet and
Already there's heaps of negative posts about it.
Especially the theme song, a tiny bit of CGI in the trailer etc. It's as if some
people want to win the " I was the first to dislike/ spot that mistake award"
then point it out for years to come.
I don't know if it's a "Superfan" mentality thing, almost a need to show superiority
over other fans, by being so critical over very minor points. I don't know about
others but at the moment I'm basking in the great feeling of .... ( only my taste and
Opinion, can only say how I feel)
A great theme song, not good or passable, but a great classic theme. That will stand
the test of time and one we'll be hearing played over film footage on future documentaries
and not just Bond documentaries.
A superb Bond in Daniel Craig, very physical but also very human, so making what
Bond does. Not superman stuff but superhuman, a very different thing. He's one of
my top Bonds.
A splendid cast, one of the best ever brought together for any film not just a Bond.
Jaw dropping cinematography, wonderful sets and score. The stunt work looks amazing
too.
Yet despite all this, some want to complain over a three second clip, with ( in their
opinion) bad CGI !
After I see Spectre, if I have any problems with it, I'll post them. Until then, I'm ignoring
All the usual doom and gloom crew, and living in the lovely warm glow of a Bond theme
landing a number one hit. A New Bond film which looks to be spectacular, and another
Huge hit. A Fantastic Bond ( one of the best) {[]
I have a feeling if the internet had been around in the 60s, many Bond films would have
been pulled apart by the " Fan critics" before release.
I am? Where? I was just saying that from what I've read, especially on MI6Community, people are going apeshit over the above 3 things I mentioned. TBH that forum is a hive of negativity
I can believe that...
Also, Scaramangas car didn't turn into a Plane for real...it was a radio controlled model..we all knew this and are happy to susupend disbelief for a few seconds. The plane on the opening credits of FYEO did not fly through the hanger on one side...it was pulled through on a rope...again something we know. The Russian MIG jets in Goldeneye were clearly made by airfix, and hung off a piece of string....I won't go on...just to say that CGI is just a new effect that means that models and bits of string don't have to be used any more (always get annoyed when water droplets look far too big in set piece scenes a la the fllooding of the mine in avtak!)
A bit of CGI used sparingly works to the films advantage in my opinion, and I won't let that spoil my enjoyment at all.
It's a good point and one not often raised.
But using SF as an example, the CGI quite well done, but when you have the LALD alligator stunt as a benchmark, the komodo scene falls flat. They did it properly as recently as CR, mostly if not all done for real.
I know that was in Octopussy
This is a great, and thoughtful post, James. Your thoughts are spot-on. As time goes on, opinions towards certain films change. When I was young, I hated Thunderball, because I found the underwater scenes too laborious at points, and frenetic at others. But, as I've grown older, it's my favorite Connery movie, and for 1965, the underwater scenes are phenomenal.
But, more recently, I saw Skyfall in an advance media screening, and walked out of it devastated. Hated it. For all the hype surrounding Skyfall, I felt Silva's motive was weak, and that his character was a such a departure from past Bond villains that I found it extremely unnerving. But, when I re-watched it for the second time on premiere night, Silva grew on me. To this day, Skyfall ranks in my top 5 of films. It's one of the most aesthetically-pleasing films, and arguably, has one of the best suspenseful action scenes (Parliament shootout).
Bond films are like wine, some age betters than others. :007)
All that being said, I'm super psyched for SPECTRE! I know it won't be perfect (*cough cough* title song**) but based on all the trailers I've seen, there certainly far more evidence of a potential classic. But I certainly don't know if it's good or bad at this point...THAT will probably take years.
-{ -{
Which bond are you thinking about? Misty-eyed Dalton (would never have noticed without Higgins but have to support my compatriot's favorite subject)? Brosnan at the beach in GE? Craig in CoS?
So true.
"- That is something to be afraid of."
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Oooooh, Misty-eyed Dalton will get you every time. I'm pretty sure I found the meaning of life in those big blues.
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
This is an absolutely amazing post.
As a 22 year old Bond fan, I did not get to grow up with the old timer Bond films. However, as I have watched each film, they do grow on me and ones I didn't like at first end up becoming my top films.
You have an excellent point. We can't expect perfect, we should expect a good "Bond film."
Check out my Instagram: @livingthebondlife
"I never joke about my work, 007."
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming