I'll keep everybody posted on how well, if at all, this experiment works out.
BTW, I've started You Only Live Twice now, and it's immediately obvious that the film was written by Roald Dahl because there's more than a fair amount of exaggerated storytelling going on from the very first scene, which makes the entire thing feel slightly out-of-place in relation to the tone of the previous movies (although the jury is still out at this point as to whether or not that's a bad thing).
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
...although of course DAF actually occurred after OHMSS in the film universe, creating an obvious continuity gaffe which I presume you are attempting to avoid by altering the order of viewing... B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
My main motivation in deciding to try out this experiment was actually an aversion to having to switch from the Sean Connery Collection Vol. 2 DVD set to the George Lazenby DVD and then back to the Connery Collection DVD set, although I am also interested in seeing if the narrative 'flow' of the films holds together by inverting the order of DaF and OHMSS.
Even though I'm a "Continuity Nazi", my main motivation in deciding to try out this experiment was actually an aversion to having to switch from the Sean Connery Collection Vol. 2 DVD set to the George Lazenby DVD and then back to the Connery Collection DVD set.
LOL. Once you've seen YOLT, then DAF and then OHMSS, you'll see why it's the biggest continuity goatscrew in Bond series history ...but it will create a BIGGER problem, because after dealing with Bond face to face twice, Blofeld still doesn't recognize him in OHMSS
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Wouldn't the revelation from DaF that Blofeld often enploys physical doubles solve that issue?
Not unless Bond never deals with the *actual* Blofeld until OHMSS, which isn't substantiated by anything whatsoever. But I admire the machinations you're projecting! Unfortunately, Eon produced them in a different order, so any interpretation deviating from the timeline of the actual film releases is, by default, a personal interpretation on your part.
Which everything, ultimately, is. Isn't it fun?
{[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Try on this hypothesis for size: The Blofeld that Bond deals with in OHMSS isn't the real Blofeld at all, but a double.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited October 2015
As I said: no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this. So if it works for you, by default I suppose it's okay---however, by that extension...has Bond EVER met the real Blofeld? If not, then, that's all a bit deflating, and the Old!Bond was a complete study in futility.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Based on the synopsis I read of the way DaF ends, I think it would work, even if it's nothing more than a Fanon theory.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
) ...well, okay then.
So we see just how flexible all this really is.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I don't suppose the fact that it's definitely the real Blofeld in the OHMSS novel would help?
Not if you don't ever read it, or acknowledge its existence :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I don't suppose the fact that it's definitely the real Blofeld in the OHMSS novel would help?
For all that Fleming's novels and stories inspired the films, they are clearly separate entities that do and can exist independently and have their own internal narrative logic, so, no, it wouldn't really affect my hypothesis one way or the other (and, no, that's not a slight against the novels in any way).
I'm not surprised that you're dismissing Ian Fleming, as you've dismissed Michael G. Wilson already. Is there anybody you wouldn't dismiss, and we can try and get a quote from them?
I'm not surprised that you're dismissing Ian Fleming, as you've dismissed Michael G. Wilson already. Is there anybody you wouldn't dismiss, and we can try and get a quote from them?
I'm not dismissing anything or anyone. I'm choosing to take the contents of the films as they are and as an entity all their own that may have been inspired and influenced by the novels, but clearly created their own internal logic that exists separate to the internal narrative logic of the novels...
Which, BTW, is exactly how I treat any adapted franchise or work no matter what it is.
^ No. I'm looking at what the films themselves show and treating those things as the 'guiding light' in forming hypotheses, impressions, and conclusions about the way that the filmic Bond universes are meant to work, which, at least in my experience, is part of what being a more-than-casual fan of something is all about.
^ I may not have ALL the evidence, but I have enough evidence to hypothesize, theorize, and make conclusions and observations.
Some of those hypotheses, theories, conclusions, and observations may end up changing, being invalidated, or dismissed as I gain more evidence, but that's life.
You are therefore selecting what can be regarded as evidence (ie the films themselves) and ignoring what the creators, the books, and long-term fans have to say. That will lead to a very narrow point of view.
I'm not surprised that you're dismissing Ian Fleming, as you've dismissed Michael G. Wilson already. Is there anybody you wouldn't dismiss, and we can try and get a quote from them?
I'm not dismissing anything or anyone. I'm choosing to take the contents of the films as they are and as an entity all their own that may have been inspired and influenced by the novels, but clearly created their own internal logic that exists separate to the internal narrative logic of the novels...
Which, BTW, is exactly how I treat any adapted franchise or work no matter what it is.
He hasn't read the books
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
I'm not surprised that you're dismissing Ian Fleming, as you've dismissed Michael G. Wilson already. Is there anybody you wouldn't dismiss, and we can try and get a quote from them?
I'm not dismissing anything or anyone. I'm choosing to take the contents of the films as they are and as an entity all their own that may have been inspired and influenced by the novels, but clearly created their own internal logic that exists separate to the internal narrative logic of the novels...
Which, BTW, is exactly how I treat any adapted franchise or work no matter what it is.
He hasn't read the books
books or not, watch all movies first!
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
I'm not surprised that you're dismissing Ian Fleming, as you've dismissed Michael G. Wilson already. Is there anybody you wouldn't dismiss, and we can try and get a quote from them?
I'm not dismissing anything or anyone. I'm choosing to take the contents of the films as they are and as an entity all their own that may have been inspired and influenced by the novels, but clearly created their own internal logic that exists separate to the internal narrative logic of the novels...
Which, BTW, is exactly how I treat any adapted franchise or work no matter what it is.
He hasn't read the books
Why does that matter? It matters that he's talking about all the films he hasn't seen, but he's just talking about films and isn't saying anything about the novels. The novels and the films are two separate entities as far as continuity is concerned.
I may not have seen the vast majority of the movies, but I didn't come here as a total ignoramus when it comes to details about them, having at least a basic 'layman's knowledge' of their plotlines, and even that rudimentary knowledge was, as I have noted, enough to fully convince me that there is meant to be an overall continuitous structure to the series, even in the face of "Word of God" comments that seem to indicate otherwise (depending on how you individually choose to interpret said comments) and engender in me a desire to experience them for the first time in accordance with that structure.
I had initially planned on posting full reviews of both You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever together after finishing both movies in their entirety, but I'm not even halfway through DaF at this point and am not even sure if I'm going to end up finishing it.
It really isn't a very good movie in and of itself, and it's even worse as a continuation of the franchise of which it's a part. It feels like a two-cent parody of itself that couldn't even be bothered to make its own internal logic work relative to either itself or the films that came before it. It also completely buggers the reasoning I was relying on for even deciding to add it to my watch-list at all since Blofeld's actions (not to mention appearance) don't even remotely hold together relative to his previous appearances.
Ironically (given the BtS circumstances surrounding it), the only thing that even remotely works about it is Sean Connery, and yet even he feels out-of-place.
Anyway, enough about that. On to my full review of YOLT:
This movie is an interesting beast in that it's far goofier than it ought to be given its storyline, but there are simultaneously things about its storyline that wouldn't have worked as well as they did if it weren't for the goofiness of Roald Dahl's script.
I really liked the usage of SPECTRE in this movie and the way that we as an audience are given our first 'proper' introduction to Blofeld along with the character of Bond, but could've done without some of the goofier presentation and design choices made by Mr. Dahl's script and the production team (the way in which their spacecraft physically 'gobbled up' the American and Russian spacecraft, specifically, and the way in the film depicted people dying courtesy of Blofeld's piranhas).
I also could've done without the goofiness of James Bond being disguised as a Japanese man and forced into a sham marriage with Kissy Suzuki, who really just didn't work as a character for me, especially in comparison to Aki. If the storyline absolutely called for the plot involving Kissy, I think her and Aki's roles really ought to have been reversed so that it was Kissy who was Bond's initial contact and partner in Japan and Aki his "island wife", since it might've mitigated the goofiness of that entire area of the story and made it work better than it did.
Speaking of Aki, I loved her role in the storyline and the way she played off of Sean Connery, and wish she'd had a slightly less goofy death. Her role in the storyline and the way that the actress, Akiko Wakabayashi, played her reminded me very much of the character of Yukio from The Wolverine. I also actually bought her as a Japanese secret service agent, which really wasn't the case with Kissy.
I've always been a bit of a sucker for ninjas and ninja movies (the American Ninja franchise and the first two Three Ninjas movies are some of my absolutely favorite 'guilty pleasure' flicks), and therefore consequently really enjoyed the parts of the movie featuring Tiger Tanaka and his ninja commandos. The shot of all of said commandos rappelling down into SPECTRE's volcano base may be my favorite shot in all of the films I've watched so far, but because it only really works due to the goofiness of some of the script's other elements, I'll gladly take that goofiness just to get that incredibly awesome and squee-worthy moment.
Another 'squee-worthy' moment for me was the way that the film brought in Q and utilized his 'latest' invention, Little Nellie. The aerial dogfight between Bond and SPECTRE's pilots ranks up there as one of the better action set-pieces in the franchise, and was really brilliantly shot.
I also really have to give a shoutout to the composer and sound design team for the way in which they utilized the titlular theme song throughout the film itself, not only because it added a lot to the instances in which it was utilized, but also because I think it's my favorite of the theme songs from the Old!Bond Continuity films thus far.
There are parts of Roald Dahl's goofier script that I could've done without and that do sort of drag down the movie a bit in relation to its predecessors, but I'm going to rate YOLT on the whole as an 8 out of 10 anyway based just on the way it utilizes SPECTRE, the character of Aki, and the awesomeness of Tiger Tanaka's ninja commando raid on SPECTRE's volcano base alone.
I'm going to rate YOLT on the whole as an 8 out of 10 anyway based just on the way it utilizes SPECTRE, the character of Aki, and the awesomeness of Tiger Tanaka's ninja commando raid on SPECTRE's volcano base alone.
Comments
BTW, I've started You Only Live Twice now, and it's immediately obvious that the film was written by Roald Dahl because there's more than a fair amount of exaggerated storytelling going on from the very first scene, which makes the entire thing feel slightly out-of-place in relation to the tone of the previous movies (although the jury is still out at this point as to whether or not that's a bad thing).
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LOL. Once you've seen YOLT, then DAF and then OHMSS, you'll see why it's the biggest continuity goatscrew in Bond series history
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Not unless Bond never deals with the *actual* Blofeld until OHMSS, which isn't substantiated by anything whatsoever. But I admire the machinations you're projecting! Unfortunately, Eon produced them in a different order, so any interpretation deviating from the timeline of the actual film releases is, by default, a personal interpretation on your part.
Which everything, ultimately, is. Isn't it fun?
{[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
So we see just how flexible all this really is.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
We'll see what my experiment yields, though.
Not if you don't ever read it, or acknowledge its existence :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
For all that Fleming's novels and stories inspired the films, they are clearly separate entities that do and can exist independently and have their own internal narrative logic, so, no, it wouldn't really affect my hypothesis one way or the other (and, no, that's not a slight against the novels in any way).
I'm not dismissing anything or anyone. I'm choosing to take the contents of the films as they are and as an entity all their own that may have been inspired and influenced by the novels, but clearly created their own internal logic that exists separate to the internal narrative logic of the novels...
Which, BTW, is exactly how I treat any adapted franchise or work no matter what it is.
Some of those hypotheses, theories, conclusions, and observations may end up changing, being invalidated, or dismissed as I gain more evidence, but that's life.
He hasn't read the books
books or not, watch all movies first!
Why does that matter? It matters that he's talking about all the films he hasn't seen, but he's just talking about films and isn't saying anything about the novels. The novels and the films are two separate entities as far as continuity is concerned.
I had initially planned on posting full reviews of both You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever together after finishing both movies in their entirety, but I'm not even halfway through DaF at this point and am not even sure if I'm going to end up finishing it.
It really isn't a very good movie in and of itself, and it's even worse as a continuation of the franchise of which it's a part. It feels like a two-cent parody of itself that couldn't even be bothered to make its own internal logic work relative to either itself or the films that came before it. It also completely buggers the reasoning I was relying on for even deciding to add it to my watch-list at all since Blofeld's actions (not to mention appearance) don't even remotely hold together relative to his previous appearances.
Ironically (given the BtS circumstances surrounding it), the only thing that even remotely works about it is Sean Connery, and yet even he feels out-of-place.
Anyway, enough about that. On to my full review of YOLT:
This movie is an interesting beast in that it's far goofier than it ought to be given its storyline, but there are simultaneously things about its storyline that wouldn't have worked as well as they did if it weren't for the goofiness of Roald Dahl's script.
I really liked the usage of SPECTRE in this movie and the way that we as an audience are given our first 'proper' introduction to Blofeld along with the character of Bond, but could've done without some of the goofier presentation and design choices made by Mr. Dahl's script and the production team (the way in which their spacecraft physically 'gobbled up' the American and Russian spacecraft, specifically, and the way in the film depicted people dying courtesy of Blofeld's piranhas).
I also could've done without the goofiness of James Bond being disguised as a Japanese man and forced into a sham marriage with Kissy Suzuki, who really just didn't work as a character for me, especially in comparison to Aki. If the storyline absolutely called for the plot involving Kissy, I think her and Aki's roles really ought to have been reversed so that it was Kissy who was Bond's initial contact and partner in Japan and Aki his "island wife", since it might've mitigated the goofiness of that entire area of the story and made it work better than it did.
Speaking of Aki, I loved her role in the storyline and the way she played off of Sean Connery, and wish she'd had a slightly less goofy death. Her role in the storyline and the way that the actress, Akiko Wakabayashi, played her reminded me very much of the character of Yukio from The Wolverine. I also actually bought her as a Japanese secret service agent, which really wasn't the case with Kissy.
I've always been a bit of a sucker for ninjas and ninja movies (the American Ninja franchise and the first two Three Ninjas movies are some of my absolutely favorite 'guilty pleasure' flicks), and therefore consequently really enjoyed the parts of the movie featuring Tiger Tanaka and his ninja commandos. The shot of all of said commandos rappelling down into SPECTRE's volcano base may be my favorite shot in all of the films I've watched so far, but because it only really works due to the goofiness of some of the script's other elements, I'll gladly take that goofiness just to get that incredibly awesome and squee-worthy moment.
Another 'squee-worthy' moment for me was the way that the film brought in Q and utilized his 'latest' invention, Little Nellie. The aerial dogfight between Bond and SPECTRE's pilots ranks up there as one of the better action set-pieces in the franchise, and was really brilliantly shot.
I also really have to give a shoutout to the composer and sound design team for the way in which they utilized the titlular theme song throughout the film itself, not only because it added a lot to the instances in which it was utilized, but also because I think it's my favorite of the theme songs from the Old!Bond Continuity films thus far.
There are parts of Roald Dahl's goofier script that I could've done without and that do sort of drag down the movie a bit in relation to its predecessors, but I'm going to rate YOLT on the whole as an 8 out of 10 anyway based just on the way it utilizes SPECTRE, the character of Aki, and the awesomeness of Tiger Tanaka's ninja commando raid on SPECTRE's volcano base alone.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS