Even the janitor in OHMSS had to whistle "Goldfinger"
Well, that's my point. John Barry wrote fantastic themes. Nobody finishes Road to Perdition and is whistling the theme.
When John Barry scored action scenes with melodies (or repeating motifs), the melodies help engage the viewer. Newman's generic action music creates a mood, but without a good melody the music doesn't further engage the viewer into the film.
Even when Thomas Newman writes themes, they are never memorable. You won't find a janitor whistling a Thomas Newman theme.
Newman is essentially miscast as a composer of a Bond score, but Mendes either failed to see this or didn't have the bottle to work with another composer for a change. All I ask for the Spectre score is that it at least has some flavour to it. Skyfall's score is like munching on a sandwich without any filling.
Even when Thomas Newman writes themes, they are never memorable. You won't find a janitor whistling a Thomas Newman theme.
Newman is essentially miscast as a composer of a Bond score, but Mendes either failed to see this or didn't have the bottle to work with another composer for a change. All I ask for the Spectre score is that it at least has some flavour to it. Skyfall's score is like munching on a sandwich without any filling.
Thunderbird Too.
David Arnold is one of my favourite composers, I have loved all the music he has done for Bond. A fitting successor to John Barry.
I just hope that this is not a sign that Mendes thinks more of the same as Skyfall, but bigger, louder, more theatrical. As a script, Skyfall is not nearly as clever or intellectual as it likes to think it is. The arty fartyness of the visuals, sets and lighting although good, failed to contain a weakening script. One that goes south, as the DB5 drove north! The music reflected that. It wasn't Bondian at all. Worse, unlike a Barry or Arnold score, it becomes more generic and understated on subsiquent viewings.
If Sam Smith's very nice but unBondlike theme song is anything to go by, Newman's new score may cure insomnia if nothing else!
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
I'm not impressed by Newman, even though I"m a fan of his father's work. For someone who comes from a well-established, insider family, he performs essentially like I'd expect -- modest talent but with lots of support and marketing. His score for Skyfall was unremarkable. David Arnold's scores for both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace were better, though he, too, does not have Barry's gift for Bond, especially the early Bond films.
I'm not impressed by Newman, even though I"m a fan of his father's work. For someone who comes from a well-established, insider family, he performs essentially like I'd expect -- modest talent but with lots of support and marketing. His score for Skyfall was unremarkable. David Arnold's scores for both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace were better, though he, too, does not have Barry's gift for Bond, especially the early Bond films.
I've wondered how much help Thomas Newman got from him much more talented father. John Barry's Bond scores were fantastic to the end, particularly TLD. Arnold's problem is that he tried too hard to fit the action on screen. Barry wrote fantastic pieces of music that didn't need the context of what was happening on-screen to be understood. Barry's approach to scoring was very simple but very effective. Martin, Hamlisch and Conti scored their films in the same manner as Barry in which fully developed pieces of music in their own right are written to score the films. That's not the modern way to score, but I don't find the modern way so musical. Arnold's problem is that many of his pieces aren't developed enough on their own, and whilst they work in the films they don't always make complete sense as pieces of music. But there are pieces like Backseat Driver or Night at the Opera that are brilliant and can stand alone without the film. When I've commented to people that I don't like particular music from films I haven't seen, they tell me that it's great in the film. But music should be great on its own, which is what greats like Bernard Herrmann, Maurice Jarre, John Barry, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone and others wrote.
Newman's Skyfall score is more or less a contemporary sci-fi TV show score . . . mostly some unmelodic, low-key notes and chords with occasional bouts of a motif or percussion riff. His father was more traditional, and his score for such films as How the West Was Won is what I think of when I think of proper movie music. Modern audiences tend to find it over-the-top, but I find the minimalist modern scores mostly yawners. A few composers -- Hans Zimmer and Trent Reznor, for instance -- can pull of the minimalist thing, but most just create sonic wallpaper.
David Arnold is a blend of the two. When he uses a strong melody, such as Bond's arrival in the Bahamas or his escape from the Bolivian hotel, his stuff is good. He can write a decent theme, like his simple but effective "Sherlock." But his action music often sounds discordant and random, rather like a Michael Kamen score. It's not something to listen to outside the context of the movie itself.
What Barry understood, perhaps from his jazz background, was that even if the notes sound off-key, they had to somehow work together, not as random tones, but as a stand in for melody. Take his "007," which, like some jazz, is almost anti-melodic in the ways the notes come together, yet somehow, they give Bond a kind of urban, modern quality, the way jazz by Dave Brubeck, for instance, does.
Where Barry is strongest, though, is with action music. He uses simple but strong chords and lots of rhythm. Take his piece during the attack on Fort Knox, for instance. At the same time, he could write terrific, "pop" and jazz standards. Though "You Only Live Twice" sounds like a pastiche of Doris Day's "Once I had a Secret Love," just as "Goldfinger" sounds a lot like "Moon River," he still provided enough originality for the songs to take on a splendid life of their own.
Newman's Skyfall score is more or less a contemporary sci-fi TV show score . . . mostly some unmelodic, low-key notes and chords with occasional bouts of a motif or percussion riff. His father was more traditional, and his score for such films as How the West Was Won is what I think of when I think of proper movie music. Modern audiences tend to find it over-the-top, but I find the minimalist modern scores mostly yawners. A few composers -- Hans Zimmer and Trent Reznor, for instance -- can pull of the minimalist thing, but most just create sonic wallpaper.
David Arnold is a blend of the two. When he uses a strong melody, such as Bond's arrival in the Bahamas or his escape from the Bolivian hotel, his stuff is good. He can write a decent theme, like his simple but effective "Sherlock." But his action music often sounds discordant and random, rather like a Michael Kamen score. It's not something to listen to outside the context of the movie itself.
What Barry understood, perhaps from his jazz background, was that even if the notes sound off-key, they had to somehow work together, not as random tones, but as a stand in for melody. Take his "007," which, like some jazz, is almost anti-melodic in the ways the notes come together, yet somehow, they give Bond a kind of urban, modern quality, the way jazz by Dave Brubeck, for instance, does.
Where Barry is strongest, though, is with action music. He uses simple but strong chords and lots of rhythm. Take his piece during the attack on Fort Knox, for instance. At the same time, he could write terrific, "pop" and jazz standards. Though "You Only Live Twice" sounds like a pastiche of Doris Day's "Once I had a Secret Love," just as "Goldfinger" sounds a lot like "Moon River," he still provided enough originality for the songs to take on a splendid life of their own.
Ok so it sounded pretty similar to Skyfall's sound. It was an action piece, sounded like a chase perhaps. Nice use of a choir to add that epic feel. Quite brassy with a heavy rhythm section. There was a moment that was exactly like Skyfall, as in the same cue. Nice hints of the Bond theme but no fanfare. From hearing it, I'm expecting a similar score to Skyfall. The track is being uploaded to the Classic FM website.
Ok so it sounded pretty similar to Skyfall's sound. It was an action piece, sounded like a chase perhaps. Nice use of a choir to add that epic feel. Quite brassy with a heavy rhythm section. There was a moment that was exactly like Skyfall, as in the same cue. Nice hints of the Bond theme but no fanfare. From hearing it, I'm expecting a similar score to Skyfall. The track is being uploaded to the Classic FM website.
Thanks for the mini review.
Thought it might be like that. I find the Skyfall score has its moments however most of the time too much going on
Donna Lucia sounds like a nice piece of music, feels typical of Newman. I'd say it seems like we're in for a similar score to Skyfall, I just hope there are at least a couple of themes that run through the score.
'Backfire' hints at a possible action theme which appears twice. That's all Newman needs to do to raise it above his Skyfall score - provide themes and motifs that the audience can pick up on and weave them through the score to the dramatic advantage of the film.
Ah, yes, disappointed that the composer is Thomas Newman, the guy with a dozen Oscar nominations, instead of David Arnold, the guy with precisely zero Oscar nominations.
Of course, Newman has never won an Oscar, so that makes him a big loooser.
In fact, a movie sounds the way the director wants it to sound. He tells the composer what he wants and it's the composer's job to satisfy the director. If the director's not satisfied, the composer goes back and re-works the score until the director is satisfied.
If you don't like the score to SF, the blame ultimately rests with Mendes. If he wanted something big and brassy, I have no doubt Newman could've given him that.
I just finished listening to "Backfire" a second time and though it has a bit of the Bond theme, it's very generic action music and doesn't have a Bond sound. It also doesn't hold together as a piece of music. However, it uses a motif from Skyfall, which I appreciate. But the Bond theme on the bass clarinet at the end? James Bond is not a bass clarinet!
Ah, yes, disappointed that the composer is Thomas Newman, the guy with a dozen Oscar nominations, instead of David Arnold, the guy with precisely zero Oscar nominations.
Of course, Newman has never won an Oscar, so that makes him a big loooser.
In fact, a movie sounds the way the director wants it to sound. He tells the composer what he wants and it's the composer's job to satisfy the director. If the director's not satisfied, the composer goes back and re-works the score until the director is satisfied.
If you don't like the score to SF, the blame ultimately rests with Mendes. If he wanted something big and brassy, I have no doubt Newman could've given him that.
Composers have their own styles, and not every composer can or will do the big, brassy score that Barry, Hamlisch, Conti and Arnold so often did. Mendes clearly has a lot of respect for Newman and because of that I don't think he is going to micromanage him. Have you every heard a big, brassy score from Newman in the style of Barry? Newman's Skyfall score is even quite a departure for him in sounds and has a much bigger sound than his scores usually have. This is Newman's way of doing big brass. Even though Newman's Bond sound is different than his usual sound, his composition style hasn't changed from what he normally does, and that's a internal thing you can't simply tell a composer to change. Composers are often not right for certain films, and first choice composers are often rejected. John Barry has had rejected scores, and he has replaced rejected scores. Mendes' loyalty to Thomas Newman trumps all, which is something I respect.
Everybody might already know this, but Backfire in the trailer, is what the label is on the DB10, when he flips the switch and starts the flamethrower. So im guessing its part of the car chase.
Comments
Well, that's my point. John Barry wrote fantastic themes. Nobody finishes Road to Perdition and is whistling the theme.
When John Barry scored action scenes with melodies (or repeating motifs), the melodies help engage the viewer. Newman's generic action music creates a mood, but without a good melody the music doesn't further engage the viewer into the film.
It must have finished recording some time ago, seeing how the film will be released in a week and a half.
Its available for preorder Amazon etc
Thunderbird Too.
David Arnold is one of my favourite composers, I have loved all the music he has done for Bond. A fitting successor to John Barry.
I just hope that this is not a sign that Mendes thinks more of the same as Skyfall, but bigger, louder, more theatrical. As a script, Skyfall is not nearly as clever or intellectual as it likes to think it is. The arty fartyness of the visuals, sets and lighting although good, failed to contain a weakening script. One that goes south, as the DB5 drove north! The music reflected that. It wasn't Bondian at all. Worse, unlike a Barry or Arnold score, it becomes more generic and understated on subsiquent viewings.
If Sam Smith's very nice but unBondlike theme song is anything to go by, Newman's new score may cure insomnia if nothing else!
I've wondered how much help Thomas Newman got from him much more talented father. John Barry's Bond scores were fantastic to the end, particularly TLD. Arnold's problem is that he tried too hard to fit the action on screen. Barry wrote fantastic pieces of music that didn't need the context of what was happening on-screen to be understood. Barry's approach to scoring was very simple but very effective. Martin, Hamlisch and Conti scored their films in the same manner as Barry in which fully developed pieces of music in their own right are written to score the films. That's not the modern way to score, but I don't find the modern way so musical. Arnold's problem is that many of his pieces aren't developed enough on their own, and whilst they work in the films they don't always make complete sense as pieces of music. But there are pieces like Backseat Driver or Night at the Opera that are brilliant and can stand alone without the film. When I've commented to people that I don't like particular music from films I haven't seen, they tell me that it's great in the film. But music should be great on its own, which is what greats like Bernard Herrmann, Maurice Jarre, John Barry, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone and others wrote.
David Arnold is a blend of the two. When he uses a strong melody, such as Bond's arrival in the Bahamas or his escape from the Bolivian hotel, his stuff is good. He can write a decent theme, like his simple but effective "Sherlock." But his action music often sounds discordant and random, rather like a Michael Kamen score. It's not something to listen to outside the context of the movie itself.
What Barry understood, perhaps from his jazz background, was that even if the notes sound off-key, they had to somehow work together, not as random tones, but as a stand in for melody. Take his "007," which, like some jazz, is almost anti-melodic in the ways the notes come together, yet somehow, they give Bond a kind of urban, modern quality, the way jazz by Dave Brubeck, for instance, does.
Where Barry is strongest, though, is with action music. He uses simple but strong chords and lots of rhythm. Take his piece during the attack on Fort Knox, for instance. At the same time, he could write terrific, "pop" and jazz standards. Though "You Only Live Twice" sounds like a pastiche of Doris Day's "Once I had a Secret Love," just as "Goldfinger" sounds a lot like "Moon River," he still provided enough originality for the songs to take on a splendid life of their own.
+1 -{
"Better make that two."
Thanks for the mini review.
Thought it might be like that. I find the Skyfall score has its moments however most of the time too much going on
Donna Lucia sounds like a nice piece of music, feels typical of Newman. I'd say it seems like we're in for a similar score to Skyfall, I just hope there are at least a couple of themes that run through the score.
Spectre: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/tracks/B015EZU1QS/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1
No Sam Sh... Smith, fantastic B-)
https://audioboom.com/boos/3693183-world-premiere-of-new-bond-score-spectre-by-thomas-newman
Of course, Newman has never won an Oscar, so that makes him a big loooser.
In fact, a movie sounds the way the director wants it to sound. He tells the composer what he wants and it's the composer's job to satisfy the director. If the director's not satisfied, the composer goes back and re-works the score until the director is satisfied.
If you don't like the score to SF, the blame ultimately rests with Mendes. If he wanted something big and brassy, I have no doubt Newman could've given him that.
near the end, but that's a bit of continuity, I guess. -{
Composers have their own styles, and not every composer can or will do the big, brassy score that Barry, Hamlisch, Conti and Arnold so often did. Mendes clearly has a lot of respect for Newman and because of that I don't think he is going to micromanage him. Have you every heard a big, brassy score from Newman in the style of Barry? Newman's Skyfall score is even quite a departure for him in sounds and has a much bigger sound than his scores usually have. This is Newman's way of doing big brass. Even though Newman's Bond sound is different than his usual sound, his composition style hasn't changed from what he normally does, and that's a internal thing you can't simply tell a composer to change. Composers are often not right for certain films, and first choice composers are often rejected. John Barry has had rejected scores, and he has replaced rejected scores. Mendes' loyalty to Thomas Newman trumps all, which is something I respect.
It even has some recycled parts from Skyfall