Now we have some Australian reviews. None of the extremes we're had from the UK or US critics! Spectre is not the worst Bond movie in 30 years, it's just the most average Bond movie, it seems.
Those who embraced Craig early said they did so because it was realistic, it was close to the literary original, and it wasn't as camp as More. Well, they should hate Craig in Spectre then - cartoonish, far from the novels, and almost as much comedy as Moore...
Cartoonish ? You gotta explain that one....and it's 'comedy' done correctly...
Those who embraced Craig early said they did so because it was realistic, it was close to the literary original, and it wasn't as camp as More. Well, they should hate Craig in Spectre then - cartoonish, far from the novels, and almost as much comedy as Moore...
Cartoonish ? You gotta explain that one....and it's 'comedy' done correctly...
and after that explain "almost as much comedy as Moore"...
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
Just my two cents, but with Spectre. The humour is mainly in the first half.
Many of the amusing lines come from M, and Q. The humour from Bond in
my opinion, is very much in the Connery mould. The wave at the Spectre thug
At the funeral, saying how the widow didn't look to be in mourning. Calling Denbigh
A "C", etc. Not Moore's schoolboy jokes but rather more like Connery's well primed
insults.
The second half of Spectre, takes a more serious tone and the humour is far less
evident. I'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong in their opinions, only giving
Mine.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
No-one can beat the Brits at hyperbole! ) Must be their national sport.
Spectre got good reviews from the British press, it was the Americans who caused the problems
"Problem" is in the eye of the beholder. British reviews were just as extreme as the US ones, for no sufficient reason, just in different directions. Most Australian reviews are far more balanced. Spectre is not the triumph the Brits claimed, or the failure the Yanks declared.
This could only be written by an Australian?
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
No-one can beat the Brits at hyperbole! ) Must be their national sport.
Spectre got good reviews from the British press, it was the Americans who caused the problems
"Problem" is in the eye of the beholder. British reviews were just as extreme as the US ones, for no sufficient reason, just in different directions. Most Australian reviews are far more balanced. Spectre is not the triumph the Brits claimed, or the failure the Yanks declared.
That's the probable truth of the thing. For my money it's 2nd in the run of four. I really enjoyed it, but not blind to its flaws. This position is a bit dull though and does not drive energetic discussion or sell many newspapers.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Those who embraced Craig early said they did so because it was realistic, it was close to the literary original, and it wasn't as camp as More. Well, they should hate Craig in Spectre then - cartoonish, far from the novels, and almost as much comedy as Moore...
I really can't share that view as I see a good deal of well handed wit, but light years away from RM. I could see all of it delivered by Connery or even Lazenby. For me it's entirely consistent with the film interpretations and different from the novels where I don't recall any comedy and precious lite wit.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Those who embraced Craig early said they did so because it was realistic, it was close to the literary original, and it wasn't as camp as More. Well, they should hate Craig in Spectre then - cartoonish, far from the novels, and almost as much comedy as Moore...
Moore? Really? No wonder you enjoy it so )
A recalibration was needed after DAD...the box office for CR bears that out. For my own part, I think that Cinematic Bond, beginning with DN, has had an element of what charter screenwriter Richard Maibaum called 'deadpan spoofing.' Craig's Bond has always had it as well; it's just by relative comparison to invisible cars and the crassly forced interplay between Bond and Jinx in DAD that Craig comes off as 'serious.'
Bond actors come and go; another actor will take over soon enough.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
If I was a Craig fan, I would struggle to comprehend why his portrayal of Bond over the 4 movies is so varied. It's like he played at least 3 different characters, as the one from Spectre has little to do with the one from Casino Royale.
Well, here's how I do it (not much of a struggle, truth be told)...
IMO, it's simply Bond growing as a character over several pictures, which is certainly what makes his run unique among all other portrayers of the character. By SP---after losing Vesper and enduring torture, etc., in CR...being bent on vengeance only to realize, in QoS, that it doesn't really bring peace...coming to terms with his near-death and possible irrelevance in SF, and then losing M (arguably a surrogate mother figure)---007 has reached a certain point in a character arc where he has earned a bit of fatalistic flippancy, which I think Craig nails squarely on the head.
This is why the film is going to be a success, despite some flaws and dodgy writing---and also despite the best efforts of Bond-hating critics (and Craig-as-Bond detractors, haha) :007)
We can't have it both ways. If we were willing to accept the almost universally positive critical reaction to Skyfall as valid then we are obliged to take negatives seriously or ( as I suspect is closer to your position ) disregard them completely. If we do that then Bond becomes a marginal entity, of interest to only die hard fans as filmgoers do make use of reviews in order to make choices ( with so much out there I know that I do) It is possible to see problems with the film and (brace yourself) even with Daniel as Bond and not be a detractor or a 'hater'.We stifle discussion if we fall into that as a default position. I see it as a spectrum with ' Fan-boy' at one end ans 'Hater' at the other. Most of us occupy a space some distance from both poles.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited November 2015
I did, in fact, equally disregard the fawning reviews for SF as well, and enjoyed the film on my own terms, as did millions of others :007) All things are subjective... except for numbers and decimal points.
I have an actor I don't prefer---which de facto makes me a detractor---but he was quite successful during his own run. Long ago I gave up disparaging the fellow, or bemoaning his success. Everyone has opinions, favourites and dislikes.
Then again, typically I'm much harder on the writers than I am the actors, and make my filmgoing choices based on trailers and my own interests rather than reviews. It takes no particular wisdom to be a film critic---clearly---and I will trust my own opinion first ten times out of ten. With art, I subscribe to the axiom: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach...or criticize B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I did, in fact, equally disregard the fawning reviews for SF as well, and enjoyed the film on my own terms, as did millions of others :007) All things are subjective... except for numbers and decimal points.
I have an actor I don't prefer---which de facto makes me a detractor---but he was quite successful during his own run. Long ago I gave up disparaging the fellow, or bemoaning his success. Everyone has opinions, favourites and dislikes.
Then again, typically I'm much harder on the writers than I am the actors, and make my filmgoing choices based on trailers and my own interests rather than reviews. It takes no particular wisdom to be a film critic---clearly---and I will trust my own opinion first ten times out of ten. With art, I subscribe to the axiom: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach...or criticize B-)
+1 I never read reviews either, it's great as a bond fan to hear about good reviews but good or bad I'll be watching it anyway! Generally I find professional reviewers overly critical and look for things that aren't there! I read an American review which stated that In spectre bond essentially "rapes a grieving widow" maybe just me but I didn't see a heartbroken widow in spectre or anything close rape?? And obviously neither did the censors.
Most films these days are dissected and heavily criticised, goofs, continuity errors, plot holes all laid out on websites, but at the end of the day it's entertainment....I for one was entertained and enjoyed Spectre even if a mountain top clinic couldnt feasibly have a runway!
It was either that.....or the priesthood
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
:007) {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Just my two cents, but with Spectre. The humour is mainly in the first half.
Many of the amusing lines come from M, and Q. The humour from Bond in
my opinion, is very much in the Connery mould. The wave at the Spectre thug
At the funeral, saying how the widow didn't look to be in mourning. Calling Denbigh
A "C", etc. Not Moore's schoolboy jokes but rather more like Connery's well primed
insults.
The second half of Spectre, takes a more serious tone and the humour is far less
evident. I'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong in their opinions, only giving
Mine.
I agree. TBH, Craig's films could've done with a bit of a lighter touch to it anyway - hence why I enjoy SP so much.
You are hardly saying anything about how he REALLY plays Bond.
I discuss it frequently here, and posted a huge review above where I did precisely that, so I won't repeat myself
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Just my two cents, but with Spectre. The humour is mainly in the first half.
Many of the amusing lines come from M, and Q. The humour from Bond in
my opinion, is very much in the Connery mould. The wave at the Spectre thug
At the funeral, saying how the widow didn't look to be in mourning. Calling Denbigh
A "C", etc. Not Moore's schoolboy jokes but rather more like Connery's well primed
insults.
The second half of Spectre, takes a more serious tone and the humour is far less
evident. I'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong in their opinions, only giving
Mine.
I agree. TBH, Craig's films could've done with a bit of a lighter touch to it anyway - hence why I enjoy SP so much.
He certainly proved he could handle the humor very well, it didn't seem as though he struggled with it, which I appreciate.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
The Rome car chase scene reminded me of Moore in the 2CV - it's just that the cars were very different. As Craig co-produced Spectre, I would imagine that this is how he imagines Bond, and if he returns, maybe he will do a fully-blown Moore - including raising eyebrows?
I think that Craig is a Moore fan, but am not entirely sure of that.
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
You are hardly saying anything about how he REALLY plays Bond.
I discuss it frequently here, and posted a huge review above where I did precisely that, so I won't repeat myself
But you constantly repeat the argument "It makes a shitload of money, so it must be good", so any other arguments you may have mentioned pale into insignificance... ) ) )
Just my two cents, but with Spectre. The humour is mainly in the first half.
Many of the amusing lines come from M, and Q. The humour from Bond in
my opinion, is very much in the Connery mould. The wave at the Spectre thug
At the funeral, saying how the widow didn't look to be in mourning. Calling Denbigh
A "C", etc. Not Moore's schoolboy jokes but rather more like Connery's well primed
insults.
The second half of Spectre, takes a more serious tone and the humour is far less
evident. I'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong in their opinions, only giving
Mine.
I agree. TBH, Craig's films could've done with a bit of a lighter touch to it anyway - hence why I enjoy SP so much.
He certainly proved he could handle the humor very well, it didn't seem as though he struggled with it, which I appreciate.
I don't feel that SPECTRE has much more humour than say CR. It's a deadpan humour, but Craig's Bond was fun from the beginning. Less so in QoS and SF maybe.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
You are hardly saying anything about how he REALLY plays Bond.
I discuss it frequently here, and posted a huge review above where I did precisely that, so I won't repeat myself
But you constantly repeat the argument "It makes a shitload of money, so it must be good", so any other arguments you may have mentioned pale into insignificance... ) ) )
I've never actually written those words, of course, nor have I even implied it. Just reporting non-subjective facts about tangible evidence of obvious popularity & success Nothing I would repeat regarding my opinion of Craig's performance would make a difference anyway.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
UnderwaterBattle007, I too was raised watching Sir Roger in The Saint
and the Persuaders. -{ so I'm a fan. Although I remember reading that
in LALD Roger was not allowed to raise his eyebrow.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Craig was nominated for a BAFTA for playing Bond, so some people think he's fairly good.
He has been nominated for quite a few awards - a perpetual contender, it seems. Most people must think he's not good enough. And playing Bond is not going to help - it hasn't helped any previous actor...
I discuss it frequently here, and posted a huge review above where I did precisely that, so I won't repeat myself
But you constantly repeat the argument "It makes a shitload of money, so it must be good", so any other arguments you may have mentioned pale into insignificance... ) ) )
I've never actually written those words, of course, nor have I even implied it. Just reporting non-subjective facts about tangible evidence of obvious popularity & success Nothing I would repeat regarding my opinion of Craig's performance would make a difference anyway.
Yes, my paraphrase, I admit - but without any hyperbole!!! )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Yes, Craig's first Bond film was LALD. One of my Facebook friends recently posted a great pic of Daniel & Sir Roger from '06 :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
But you constantly repeat the argument "It makes a shitload of money, so it must be good", so any other arguments you may have mentioned pale into insignificance... ) ) )
I've never actually written those words, of course, nor have I even implied it. Just reporting non-subjective facts about tangible evidence of obvious popularity & success Nothing I would repeat regarding my opinion of Craig's performance would make a difference anyway.
Yes, my paraphrase, I admit - but without any hyperbole!!! )
Nor any facts )
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
What a bizarre thing to say ?:)
Us Brits are known for calm and reserve - other countries make jokes about it...I'm flabbergasted!
Cartoonish ? You gotta explain that one....and it's 'comedy' done correctly...
Many of the amusing lines come from M, and Q. The humour from Bond in
my opinion, is very much in the Connery mould. The wave at the Spectre thug
At the funeral, saying how the widow didn't look to be in mourning. Calling Denbigh
A "C", etc. Not Moore's schoolboy jokes but rather more like Connery's well primed
insults.
The second half of Spectre, takes a more serious tone and the humour is far less
evident. I'm not saying anyone else is right or wrong in their opinions, only giving
Mine.
This could only be written by an Australian?
That's the probable truth of the thing. For my money it's 2nd in the run of four. I really enjoyed it, but not blind to its flaws. This position is a bit dull though and does not drive energetic discussion or sell many newspapers.
I really can't share that view as I see a good deal of well handed wit, but light years away from RM. I could see all of it delivered by Connery or even Lazenby. For me it's entirely consistent with the film interpretations and different from the novels where I don't recall any comedy and precious lite wit.
Moore? Really? No wonder you enjoy it so
A recalibration was needed after DAD...the box office for CR bears that out. For my own part, I think that Cinematic Bond, beginning with DN, has had an element of what charter screenwriter Richard Maibaum called 'deadpan spoofing.' Craig's Bond has always had it as well; it's just by relative comparison to invisible cars and the crassly forced interplay between Bond and Jinx in DAD that Craig comes off as 'serious.'
Bond actors come and go; another actor will take over soon enough.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
We can't have it both ways. If we were willing to accept the almost universally positive critical reaction to Skyfall as valid then we are obliged to take negatives seriously or ( as I suspect is closer to your position ) disregard them completely. If we do that then Bond becomes a marginal entity, of interest to only die hard fans as filmgoers do make use of reviews in order to make choices ( with so much out there I know that I do) It is possible to see problems with the film and (brace yourself) even with Daniel as Bond and not be a detractor or a 'hater'.We stifle discussion if we fall into that as a default position. I see it as a spectrum with ' Fan-boy' at one end ans 'Hater' at the other. Most of us occupy a space some distance from both poles.
I have an actor I don't prefer---which de facto makes me a detractor---but he was quite successful during his own run. Long ago I gave up disparaging the fellow, or bemoaning his success. Everyone has opinions, favourites and dislikes.
Then again, typically I'm much harder on the writers than I am the actors, and make my filmgoing choices based on trailers and my own interests rather than reviews. It takes no particular wisdom to be a film critic---clearly---and I will trust my own opinion first ten times out of ten. With art, I subscribe to the axiom: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach...or criticize B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
+1 I never read reviews either, it's great as a bond fan to hear about good reviews but good or bad I'll be watching it anyway! Generally I find professional reviewers overly critical and look for things that aren't there! I read an American review which stated that In spectre bond essentially "rapes a grieving widow" maybe just me but I didn't see a heartbroken widow in spectre or anything close rape?? And obviously neither did the censors.
Most films these days are dissected and heavily criticised, goofs, continuity errors, plot holes all laid out on websites, but at the end of the day it's entertainment....I for one was entertained and enjoyed Spectre even if a mountain top clinic couldnt feasibly have a runway!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I agree. TBH, Craig's films could've done with a bit of a lighter touch to it anyway - hence why I enjoy SP so much.
"Better make that two."
I discuss it frequently here, and posted a huge review above where I did precisely that, so I won't repeat myself
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
He certainly proved he could handle the humor very well, it didn't seem as though he struggled with it, which I appreciate.
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
indeed a Roger Moore fan.
But you constantly repeat the argument "It makes a shitload of money, so it must be good", so any other arguments you may have mentioned pale into insignificance...
Which he was famous for when playing "The Saint".
I always found when watching RM's Bond films he was really just playing the Saint in a Bond movie.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm of that generation that watched "The Saint" religiously on TV every week, and I enjoy them also.
"Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
I don't feel that SPECTRE has much more humour than say CR. It's a deadpan humour, but Craig's Bond was fun from the beginning. Less so in QoS and SF maybe.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
and the Persuaders. -{ so I'm a fan. Although I remember reading that
in LALD Roger was not allowed to raise his eyebrow.
He has been nominated for quite a few awards - a perpetual contender, it seems. Most people must think he's not good enough. And playing Bond is not going to help - it hasn't helped any previous actor...
Yes, my paraphrase, I admit - but without any hyperbole!!!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Nor any facts
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM