Very well-reasoned and equally well-written review, chrisno1. I'm certainly glad I enjoyed it more than you did! The self-referentialism has certainly come to a head in this one, to be sure, and desperately needs to be reined in.
Spectre was the 50th Anniversary film we didn't get with Skyfall. It had more nods to previous Bond films than Die Another Day had.
Oh this site and it's hatred of Skyfall is really starting to tire now 8-) . I really don't get the outright hate some have for it, I loved the fact it was downbeat and totally different to what many want in a Bond film, screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
That's my point. For years now the PTS has usually been great, there has also been a satisfying chase/stunt in the middle of the film (last example, the car/plane chase in SPECTRE), but the final act often seem not to live up to the promise of what went before. My impression is that for many years now, the final act has not been the strongest in terms of action. In Craig's movies it seems that the final act often is the emotionally strongest, but not in terms of action.
CR - Vesper dies, QoS - Bond and the girl consider suicide in the hotel fire, SF - M dies. Perhaps SPECTRE is the odd one out, since the middle of the movie with his foster brother revealed as "the author of all your pain" being the emotional punch. I'm hoping for a grand raid at the end of the next Bond movie with a breathtaking stunt or two.
That's my point. For years now the PTS has usually been great, there has also been a satisfying chase/stunt in the middle of the film (last example, the car/plane chase in SPECTRE), but the final act often seem not to live up to the promise of what went before. My impression is that for many years now, the final act has not been the strongest in terms of action. In Craig's movies it seems that the final act often is the emotionally strongest, but not in terms of action.
CR - Vesper dies, QoS - Bond and the girl consider suicide in the hotel fire, SF - M dies. Perhaps SPECTRE is the odd one out, since the middle of the movie with his foster brother revealed as "the author of all your pain" being the emotional punch. I'm hoping for a grand raid at the end of the next Bond movie with a breathtaking stunt or two.
Spectre has the best final act of all time. CR was too over the top, and Spectre was just elaborate
Saw Spectre for my 2nd time, this time at IMAX. It is defintely growing on me and getting better with time. I wish it was mandatory for critics to have to watch some films 3 or 4 times for it to really sink in their opinion. My rating goes up from a 7 to at least an 8 . All of the complaints are just less of a big deal for whatever reason. I got used to writing's on the wall, i got used to trigger mortis' Title, and im getting used to Spectre. Upon my 2nd viewing, the only truly stupid moment that stuck out this time around was the fact that Blofeld goes to all the trouble to PRINT off everyone that died in Bond's life. That was just a little too elaborate and pointless. But yeah, i can even tolerate the elaborate revenge plot of blofeld by itself, even though its freaking stupid the first watch
When was the last Bond movie where the third act was the best?
When was the last time the best/most spectacular stunt and action scene was in the third act?
When was the last Bond movie where the third act was the best?
When was the last time the best/most spectacular stunt and action scene was in the third act?
1. To paraphrase, I assume you mean when was the final act the most spectacular? I'd say Die Another Die - rubbish or not, it has the final confrontation between Bond and villain, a threat to world peace and civilization being thwarted, lots of action and a cheeky sexy ending. Since DAD all Craig's final act's have been tagged on, as someone said, filling an emotional gap in the character's make up rather than filling the action void in the audience's eyesight.
2. Not sure it ever has been. Maybe that fight with Necros in TLD.
When was the last Bond movie where the third act was the best?
When was the last time the best/most spectacular stunt and action scene was in the third act?
Licence To Kill.
The tanker sequence is pretty spectacular, IMO. Then Bond has his revenge. "Don't you want to know why?" -{
Moore Not Less 4371 posts (2002 - 2007) Moore Than (2012 - 2016)
Very well-reasoned and equally well-written review, chrisno1. I'm certainly glad I enjoyed it more than you did! The self-referentialism has certainly come to a head in this one, to be sure, and desperately needs to be reined in.
Spectre was the 50th Anniversary film we didn't get with Skyfall. It had more nods to previous Bond films than Die Another Day had.
Oh this site and it's hatred of Skyfall is really starting to tire now 8-) . I really don't get the outright hate some have for it, I loved the fact it was downbeat and totally different to what many want in a Bond film, screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
I'm not sure I understand how this is a break from the formula? We have SPECTRE and Blofeld, isn't that formulaic all the way back to Connery's films?
Very well-reasoned and equally well-written review, chrisno1. I'm certainly glad I enjoyed it more than you did! The self-referentialism has certainly come to a head in this one, to be sure, and desperately needs to be reined in.
Spectre was the 50th Anniversary film we didn't get with Skyfall. It had more nods to previous Bond films than Die Another Day had.
Oh this site and it's hatred of Skyfall is really starting to tire now 8-) . I really don't get the outright hate some have for it, I loved the fact it was downbeat and totally different to what many want in a Bond film, screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
...screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
It did - Casino Royale and QoS
Then BB got doe eyed over DC and let him talk them into having a weak fanboy director in his mate Mendes X-(
Bring back Martin Campbell and let him whip DC back into shape as a gritty Bond again.
Okay. I took a few weeks off because I didn't want to inadvertently stumble upon any spoilers before I saw Spectre. Also, as I am writing this review you should know that I haven't read any of the reviews by my fellow forum members, so if I repeat any of your thoughts it's purely coincidence. Bottom line - I found Spectre to be good, but not great. For me it ranks Number 3 as far as Craig's Bond films, placing it lower than Casino Royale and Skyfall, and higher than Quantum of Solace. Now for the details. It was nice to see a traditional style gun barrel to start the film. It doesn't make as big a difference to me as it does to some other fans, but it was good to see nevertheless. The PTS was pretty good stuff. The pursuit on foot through the Day of the Dead celebration can't help but remind one of the Junkanoo carnival scene in Thunderball, although this time it's Bond who's doing the pursuing. The helicopter struggle is well-done (Craig's Bond being as reckless as ever), although I think it went on a tad too long. As for opening credits sequence, the title song has grown on me but it's still no "You Know My Name". But I have to say that I did not really like Daniel Kleinman's title images this time. I was hoping for something a bit more imaginative. And do we really need so many images of Craig with his shirt off surrounded by gyrating beauties? I vote no. But that's a minor complaint. A much bigger issue as far as I'm concerned is how utterly underused the very beautiful and talented Ms. Belucci is. Once the plot kicked into place, I was hoping she would be a key player that we would see more of throughout the movie. I was wrong and I think that is a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. Could it be possible that she's being saved for a reappearance in the next Bond film, perhaps? I doubt it, but even if that is the case I think it is a total waste that she is in Spectre for such a short period of time. As for her character's very brief fling with Bond, it comes across to me as sudden, rushed, and quite frankly, ludicrous. Now I understand that such dalliances are not unusual for Bond films, but for whatever reason this one comes across to me as particularly egregious. Maybe it's because I think so highly of Ms. Belluci and I think she deserves better. Whatever the reason, it definitely rubbed me the wrong way. On a more positive note, I thoroughly enjoyed the interplay between Bond and his supporting team (M, Tanner, Q and Moneypenny). It reminds me of the Connery days (Ah the good ole days!) I particularly enjoyed Bond seeming a bit peeved that Moneypenny has a personal life and Q's nervous reactions at being thrust into Bond's mess once again (this time at the risk of his own personal safety!) I also have to say that Dave Bautista's Mr. Hinx is the frightening and formidable henchman I was hoping he would be. His fight with Bond on the train is brutally effective and it marks the appearance of another excellent fight scene in the Craig series, which already has some of the best fight sequences in the entire Bond film collection. But alas, Hinx disappears from the film all too soon for my taste. I kept thinking that despite his unceremonious departure from the train ("oh sh*t!"), he would somehow reappear later on. I realize that would have been a bit "Jaws-like", and I am generally not a fan of that kind of foolishness in Bond films. But in this case I would have welcomed a return by the bruising Mr. Hinx. This is another instance where I think the filmmakers are guilty of underutilizing a promising character (and a good performer). On to Léa Seydoux (Madeleine Swan) - I think the character and the actress are both fine. I like Ms. Swan's connection to the main villain and I think Ms. Seydoux portrays her with the right mix of vulnerability and steel. While she's no Eva Green, she puts in a solid performance. And speaking of solid performances, let me get to the great Christoph Waltz, who usually delivers very solid performances. I think he is the perfect choice to play a Bond villain - just not this Bond villain! Initially when he is the mysterious, powerful Franz Oberhauser, I think Mr. Waltz fits in quite well. But as we head towards the big reveal, he seems more and more out of place, and when he finally emerges as the full-blown Blofeld I found myself wishing a different actor had been chosen to play the role. Especially when Watlz shows up with the Donald Pleasance/Dr. Evil style scar - ugh! Some of you might recall when rumors began to swirl that Blofeld would be the villain in Spectre, I wasn't exactly thrilled. My feeling is that Blofeld was done enough in the previous Bond films, and I didn't feel he needed to be recycled. Well he has been recycled, and not well in my opinion. My guess is that this is a minority opinion (no pun intended!) among Bond fans, but I wish Blofeld had been left out of this movie. I realize I haven't mentioned Daniel Craig yet. I think he owns the role now, and he easily holds up his end in Spectre. I've been going on too long, so I'll wrap up now. I think Spectre is weakly plotted and scripted, and it misses some major opportunities. And although it contains just enough elements to be enjoyable to this Bond fan, I was hoping for more.
...screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
It did - Casino Royale and QoS
Then BB got doe eyed over DC and let him talk them into having a weak fanboy director in his mate Mendes X-(
Bring back Martin Campbell and let him whip DC back into shape as a gritty Bond again.
Honestly, while it's true that SP does have elements from Bond tradition, it's not something that really bothers me.
Plus, the elements may be there, but it's not like we're seeing a carbon copy of the Connery, Moore, or Brosnan eras. I see SP as it's own beast: it may have elements from past Bond films, but I think it succesfully adapted them to our times (generally speaking).
But of course, Bond fans will always be arguing. And let's face it, we love to argue and wouldn't have it any other way.
Ofc, what matters is that we respect our differences. -{
"Hostile takeovers. Shall we?"
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
I think the bond elements stand out so much in SP because of how lacking they've been in the previous 3 films, after all in Sf it was indeed q who told bond how they no longer go in for things like exploding pens anymore!! No? But exploding watches and flamethrowers in cars are OK? It's inconsistent to say the least. I still don't understand Mendes's reluctance to have brought back in the excellent Jeffrey Wright. Who's character has loads of mileage, I also agree that Monica Belucci was underused. I've liked all of Craigs films mainly due to him himself in the role, SP I think is a worthy entrance into the bond ranks... But what do I know, I'm the guy who likes qos.
Oh this site and it's hatred of Skyfall is really starting to tire now 8-) . I really don't get the outright hate some have for it, I loved the fact it was downbeat and totally different to what many want in a Bond film, screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and an OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
the answer to your question is: because that's what Bond is and was for 40 years! If you want some realism, try the Bourne films
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
Okay. I took a few weeks off because I didn't want to inadvertently stumble upon any spoilers before I saw Spectre. Also, as I am writing this review you should know that I haven't read any of the reviews by my fellow forum members, so if I repeat any of your thoughts it's purely coincidence. Bottom line - I found Spectre to be good, but not great. For me it ranks Number 3 as far as Craig's Bond films, placing it lower than Casino Royale and Skyfall, and higher than Quantum of Solace. Now for the details. It was nice to see a traditional style gun barrel to start the film. It doesn't make as big a difference to me as it does to some other fans, but it was good to see nevertheless. The PTS was pretty good stuff. The pursuit on foot through the Day of the Dead celebration can't help but remind one of the Junkanoo carnival scene in Thunderball, although this time it's Bond who's doing the pursuing. The helicopter struggle is well-done (Craig's Bond being as reckless as ever), although I think it went on a tad too long. As for opening credits sequence, the title song has grown on me but it's still no "You Know My Name". But I have to say that I did not really like Daniel Kleinman's title images this time. I was hoping for something a bit more imaginative. And do we really need so many images of Craig with his shirt off surrounded by gyrating beauties? I vote no. But that's a minor complaint. A much bigger issue as far as I'm concerned is how utterly underused the very beautiful and talented Ms. Belucci is. Once the plot kicked into place, I was hoping she would be a key player that we would see more of throughout the movie. I was wrong and I think that is a mistake on the part of the filmmakers. Could it be possible that she's being saved for a reappearance in the next Bond film, perhaps? I doubt it, but even if that is the case I think it is a total waste that she is in Spectre for such a short period of time. As for her character's very brief fling with Bond, it comes across to me as sudden, rushed, and quite frankly, ludicrous. Now I understand that such dalliances are not unusual for Bond films, but for whatever reason this one comes across to me as particularly egregious. Maybe it's because I think so highly of Ms. Belluci and I think she deserves better. Whatever the reason, it definitely rubbed me the wrong way. On a more positive note, I thoroughly enjoyed the interplay between Bond and his supporting team (M, Tanner, Q and Moneypenny). It reminds me of the Connery days (Ah the good ole days!) I particularly enjoyed Bond seeming a bit peeved that Moneypenny has a personal life and Q's nervous reactions at being thrust into Bond's mess once again (this time at the risk of his own personal safety!) I also have to say that Dave Bautista's Mr. Hinx is the frightening and formidable henchman I was hoping he would be. His fight with Bond on the train is brutally effective and it marks the appearance of another excellent fight scene in the Craig series, which already has some of the best fight sequences in the entire Bond film collection. But alas, Hinx disappears from the film all too soon for my taste. I kept thinking that despite his unceremonious departure from the train ("oh sh*t!"), he would somehow reappear later on. I realize that would have been a bit "Jaws-like", and I am generally not a fan of that kind of foolishness in Bond films. But in this case I would have welcomed a return by the bruising Mr. Hinx. This is another instance where I think the filmmakers are guilty of underutilizing a promising character (and a good performer). On to Léa Seydoux (Madeleine Swan) - I think the character and the actress are both fine. I like Ms. Swan's connection to the main villain and I think Ms. Seydoux portrays her with the right mix of vulnerability and steel. While she's no Eva Green, she puts in a solid performance. And speaking of solid performances, let me get to the great Christoph Waltz, who usually delivers very solid performances. I think he is the perfect choice to play a Bond villain - just not this Bond villain! Initially when he is the mysterious, powerful Franz Oberhauser, I think Mr. Waltz fits in quite well. But as we head towards the big reveal, he seems more and more out of place, and when he finally emerges as the full-blown Blofeld I found myself wishing a different actor had been chosen to play the role. Especially when Watlz shows up with the Donald Pleasance/Dr. Evil style scar - ugh! Some of you might recall when rumors began to swirl that Blofeld would be the villain in Spectre, I wasn't exactly thrilled. My feeling is that Blofeld was done enough in the previous Bond films, and I didn't feel he needed to be recycled. Well he has been recycled, and not well in my opinion. My guess is that this is a minority opinion (no pun intended!) among Bond fans, but I wish Blofeld had been left out of this movie. I realize I haven't mentioned Daniel Craig yet. I think he owns the role now, and he easily holds up his end in Spectre. I've been going on too long, so I'll wrap up now. I think Spectre is weakly plotted and scripted, and it misses some major opportunities. And although it contains just enough elements to be enjoyable to this Bond fan, I was hoping for more.
I have been wondering where you have been. Welcome back.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Okay. I .... And although it contains just enough elements to be enjoyable to this Bond fan, I was hoping for more.
Great review my friend and nice to have you back. -{ I agree with many of your sentiments though I take issue with two. I thought Christopher Waltz was fantastic as Blofeld - an improvement on Charles Gray and even ( {:) ) Donald Pleasance. Waltz shows the right balance of control, steel and derangement from the initial reveal to the torture scene. His delivery throughout, IMO, was terrific, particularly in his first scenes with Bond and Swann around the meteorite. I'm not sure how the ending could have been better.
And while I'd agree Ms. Bellucci was criminally underused, I didn't perceive her readiness to, um, sleep with Bond was unbelievable. A mix of grief and relief can do odd things. Perhaps if it was Connery you might have been able to suspend belief more? )
Comments
Oh this site and it's hatred of Skyfall is really starting to tire now 8-) . I really don't get the outright hate some have for it, I loved the fact it was downbeat and totally different to what many want in a Bond film, screw gadgets and winks to the camera. Why does Bond always have to have one liners, get the girl in the end and some OTT Villain. This franchise needs to break from the formula.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
CR - Vesper dies, QoS - Bond and the girl consider suicide in the hotel fire, SF - M dies. Perhaps SPECTRE is the odd one out, since the middle of the movie with his foster brother revealed as "the author of all your pain" being the emotional punch. I'm hoping for a grand raid at the end of the next Bond movie with a breathtaking stunt or two.
Spectre has the best final act of all time. CR was too over the top, and Spectre was just elaborate
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
THUNDERBALL -{
FYEO! -{
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
QoS- the editing has calmed down by then, and the film is far away from the title song.
X-(
I agree though - QoS is fantastic -{
2. Not sure it ever has been. Maybe that fight with Necros in TLD.
Licence To Kill.
The tanker sequence is pretty spectacular, IMO. Then Bond has his revenge. "Don't you want to know why?" -{
He walked right past them!
I'm not sure I understand how this is a break from the formula? We have SPECTRE and Blofeld, isn't that formulaic all the way back to Connery's films?
Did I say anything bad about Skyfall?
It did - Casino Royale and QoS
Then BB got doe eyed over DC and let him talk them into having a weak fanboy director in his mate Mendes X-(
Bring back Martin Campbell and let him whip DC back into shape as a gritty Bond again.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
One question my friend, which film do you rank higher, SP or YOLT? ?:)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Are you kidding??? YOLT!!!!
Signed,
Totally In The Tank For Connery.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Honestly, while it's true that SP does have elements from Bond tradition, it's not something that really bothers me.
Plus, the elements may be there, but it's not like we're seeing a carbon copy of the Connery, Moore, or Brosnan eras. I see SP as it's own beast: it may have elements from past Bond films, but I think it succesfully adapted them to our times (generally speaking).
But of course, Bond fans will always be arguing. And let's face it, we love to argue and wouldn't have it any other way.
Ofc, what matters is that we respect our differences. -{
New 2020 ranking (for now DAF and FYEO keep their previous placements)
1. TLD 2. TND 3. GF 4. TSWLM 5. TWINE 6. OHMSS 7. LtK 8. TMWTGG 9. L&LD 10. YOLT 11. DAD 12. QoS 13. DN 14. GE 15. SF 16. OP 17. MR 18. AVTAK 19. TB 20. FRWL 21. CR 22. FYEO 23. DAF (SP to be included later)
Bond actors to be re-ranked later
Then I'd say you are a fine chap who knows quite a lot
I have been wondering where you have been. Welcome back.
Great review my friend and nice to have you back. -{ I agree with many of your sentiments though I take issue with two. I thought Christopher Waltz was fantastic as Blofeld - an improvement on Charles Gray and even ( {:) ) Donald Pleasance. Waltz shows the right balance of control, steel and derangement from the initial reveal to the torture scene. His delivery throughout, IMO, was terrific, particularly in his first scenes with Bond and Swann around the meteorite. I'm not sure how the ending could have been better.
And while I'd agree Ms. Bellucci was criminally underused, I didn't perceive her readiness to, um, sleep with Bond was unbelievable. A mix of grief and relief can do odd things. Perhaps if it was Connery you might have been able to suspend belief more?
Welcome back BL -{
Ha! On my second viewing with the first shot of Craig alone shirtless, I thought that this would make a GREAT opener for a gay porn movie
But I am sure that this made Lexi very happy
..and maybe falling in love with a midgety blonde?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!