Thought the CGI was some of the worst of the series and my daughter who saw it with me commented that some of the helicopter CGI looked like 1960's backdrop
I think I have realised the problem I have is : They did a brilliant job with building the story of Spectre being this huge organised syndicate, and Waltz a ultra cool super villain and Hinx the tough henchman, and then did nothing special with it, there was no grand master plan to nuke fort knox, or create a race of superbeings whilst destroying humanity. All it appears they were doing was trying to control the Spy networks and control the CCTV globally,
And it was to have an insider on the inside, ie Denbigh, who would wreck it and bring the worlds agencies to their knees. A conference was called and got defeated by one vote - but the aim was to have the worlds spy organisation under one man
Don't you think thats sinister?
1. For Your Eyes Only 2. The Living Daylights 3 From Russia with Love 4. Casino Royale 5. OHMSS 6. Skyfall
Well I'll repost what I put in the spoiler-free thread for the initial part, and it's very positive. That said, specific niggles will form the negative part, where I will be less vague, but that's life isn't it? I mean, if you come back from having a great holiday, you just say, wow, terrific, great food and sunshine, but if it went wrong you start listing specific gripes.
So yes, I loved the look of it, the cinematography... the scope. Best of all it does tie up some of the disparate parts of Craig's previous three movies, so you may feel better disposed towards, say QoS. Parts of it put me in mind of that Italian art house movie, The Great Beauty, and others the Jack Nicholson film of the 70s, The Passenger. There is a real eeriness at times, there are also nods to Craig's Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
That said, there are still plot holes, just not as glaring as in SF, and it does go a bit crap for the final reel imo, in contrast to how it was previously. Some of the 'issues' it explores are dealt with in a bit of a pat way. And it is bigger on atmosphere, locale and tension than on action.
My enjoyment was massively enhanced by having studiously avoided spoilers so I urge you to continue the good work if you have done the same, and hold out till you see it. It will be like when you saw the Bond films as a kid.
Loeffs, I wouldn't read the rest of this. You read my QoS review when I made a jokey German reference at the beginning of it, and then you knew everything. Unless, when you watch SP, you want the ghost of NP sat beside you, as if whispering into your ear...
Overall, while I can list the bad points, and now will do, the odd thing is that it didn't mar my enjoyment of the movie, cos I bought in to it.
So yes, we have the gun barrel at the beginning, and Craig manages his walk correctly, only on the 4th time, still, Connery only did his on TB and he wobbled a bit after firing. The first shots didn't impressive really but that is possibly because I didn't realise it was a tracking shot, never quite seen the point of those unless they are really good eg in Snake Eyes or GoodFellas. Not sure why Craig needed his skeleton mask, he's always been quite gaunt... When he takes it off, it's a case of, mate don't bother, put it back on!
I will miss making these jokes when Craig hangs up his shoulder holster.
It's a great bit of timing to have it set around Halloween i.e. now. First bit of past Bond reference, as Bond forgoes the gal to step out on the balcony ledge as in DAF, then strikes an assassin pose as with LTK in Isthmus City, but also CR the book when he has to shoot through a window to earn his 00 status. Not quite sure where the big explosion comes from, not from Bond, what's that about? This is a good example of my not knowing what is going on in the film, and enjoyably not caring.
It's not going to be a credible film, as Bond chooses to fall into a collapsing building rather than scramble back onto the ledge like any sensible person would. Then we have a chase, but the print seems overexposed, maybe to camouflage the green screen effects of the upcoming helicopter chase.
And the chase is very very good, I guess a nod to FYEO's pts, the last time a certain someone in the EON franchise made an appearance. I must admit the tension does come from fear that the copter will crash into the gathered people below, and if that happens it will be again Bond's fault, he doesn't seem to much care for the ones he's paid to protect does he? Still, it is thrilling stuff and when it segues into the theme, it's great stuff, like the Bonds of yore. I am okay with Sam Smith's song, I always found Adele's SF depressing if sumptuously produced. Not sure about two women fondling Craig’s torso, it’s a bit Alan Partridge and I don’t know why he has to be in the credits, that only came about in the Moore era to capitalise on his male model good looks.
The thing is, if you are toned, buff and 38, as Bond was in CR, that is one thing. But toned, buff and 48, as he is here, it’s another. Sorry, but you can’t argue with time. There’s a local tramp who, first sunny spring day, takes his top off and sits with a beer outside the Marquis of Granby pub. He has not an ounce of fat on his lean, walnut coloured torso. He had a full head of hair to be proud off. But it just doesn’t count, mate. Not when you’re knocking on. You can have all the trappings of your 20s, but you can’t buy back your promise. Pay attention, all you young things out there.
Bit of a theme going on in the credits.
After that we meet M again, and it’s okay, not sure if they are accentuating his teeth in profile. Finnes is good but has lost weight and with his lanky receding hair puts me in mind of Rigsby, the moaning landlord of [UK Seventies sitcom] Rising Damp.
“Myyyyyyyyy God, I don’t know, what’s the world coming to? I’ve got some young whippersnapper who’s looking to abolish MI6 because of cutbacks, I’ve got a 00 on the loose and he’s just written off a new car, and I’m expecting the Lord Mayor to come round this evening! Not only that, but Vienna has absconded with this Oberhauser fellow, says that with a nationality like that they’re bound to get on like a house on fire! There’s gratitude for you!
"All that premium cat food I bought him too! He means nothing to me, Vienna!"
“You seem to appreciate the finer things in life Miss Moneypenny, can I not , perhaps, tempt you to a chicken kiev round my place tonight…? I have a bottle of Blue Nun in the fridge”
Anyway, we see Bond’s pad again and it’s exactly right, just how it should be. Also we see Dench’s M again, great, I thought it would be good to have her in a flashback, sadly my dream of a fleeting Connery cameo doesn’t occur. Must say, my vision would have been less contrived than to have M just pop up and say, oh, if I snuff it, look into this will you… But I do like the dialogue in this film more, everyone is more relaxed this time round, even if Rory Kinnear gets the dead hand exposition role now.
The Rome stuff is great, and it looks wonderful. Best, there is this brooding menace that builds and builds and the meeting you see Bond gatecrash is genuinely frightening. I think it is similar to Eyes Wide Shut.
That said, the eye gorging scene is a disgrace. I always thought the Al Capone baseball scene in The Untouchables would be great in a Bond film, but too violent, so how this gets passed is beyond me. I hate it, cos you shouldn’t introduce that kind of thing into a Bond movie or any film. Once you put that out there, it becomes the common currency of violence, someone will do it, and it will be some drunk thug at throwing out time who blinds some poor unlucky bastard because of it. :v
I’m not even sure what the point of it is, the Hinx just shows up and duffs this bloke up without forewarning, I mean there are no real skills to that and how does he know this isn’t one of you know who’s fave henchmen? It would make more sense if the whole thing had been set up by the head honcho in the first place, cos he hated that guy. In fact, I wondered if Hinx wouldn’t turn out to be Blofeld, as that is how he was said to be in the TB book very hands on in terms of meting out violence, and a big physical presence.
Anyway, next it’s a car chase, not to obad, no other traffic around oddly. This may be a theme of the film, the emptiness mirroring Bond’s inner life, or it just may be that they realise they’re crap with extras! I do like the way the gadgets don’t work, but really I just liked the feel of the movie and it makes me wonder if that isn’t down to the cinematographer. I read somewhere that he often has more of a hand in the film than the director, and as this is the variable here, maybe that’s true.
Not sure why Bond goes off to the snowy place, still looks great. Good to see Mr White again, it is all tying up with past films. Still going on about Bond being out of his depth. When he gets to the Pearly Gates, he’ll be telling St Peter… we have people everywhere, you are in over your head, now let me through…”
Oh, we had a sex scene with Monica. Wow. I mean, eh? This didn’t seem like a plot oversight, as I thought she’d reappear. Her character is quite right when she says Craig has bought him only five minutes more, as that’s how long she appears in the movie. Now…. sex. I mean, really, does she actually do the deed then put back on all her negligee? Or maybe Bond, under stress, shot his wad too soon, before she’d got undressed, and they’d just spent the night cuddling?
Was she brought in just to bump the average age of the Bond girl up to, say 35, which would still be 12 years younger than Craig?
Still, do like the dialogue in all this, but if you are doing a realistic movie in feel, then the car chase should reflect that, or it just won’t be exciting, just formulaic.
Love the laboratory place, very Piz Gloria. Where did Bond get the plane? The chase is then like GE with Bond in the tank and the gal looking anxiously as he bears down on the car.
I do like the scenes with Lea Seydoux, she is very good and at this point the film reaches a peak for me, I find it quite affecting as she talks about her past, at White’s ‘safehouse’. But it tells you something about Craig’s Bond that now I don’t bat an eyelid when he and the gal just show up in evening dress to the villain’s desert hideout, depite all the warnings, like to the opening of an art gallery. I mean, WTF? A homage to QoS, in turn a homage to TSWLM, but it tells you something about Moore’s Bond that at last he and Bach had a reason to be dressed up, having met in a nightclub and been bounced by events into stowing away in the back of Jaws’ van.
Actually, I wasn’t sure what was going on, just going with the ride. I mean, why are they expecting to be picked up? Is Oberhausen’s lair on Air B&B or something?
As for the big reveal, this is well done, and Vienna makes an appearance! The sheer eeriness of the film until this point make me go with it, it is very well done. However… I just don’t think at this point that Bond has any chemistry with his gals. It could be a seismic shift in sexual culture, or Craig’s age in the current climate, but the whole call and response ritual that worked for Moore at that age just doesn’t work here. They just seem to be going thru the motions cos it is in the script. Anyway, in the Bourne films the sex just happens, it is never at the hero’s instigation in terms of making a joke or being flash. There’s been a shift in attitudes and it just doesn’t look like Craig’s Bond is thinking about sex much these days or is in the frame for it.
Also, is it just me or does Craig look better when he's not Bond? I saw him in a clip in a BBC doc interviewed by Jonathan Ross for CR and he looked really young, spiky hair, he never looked like that in his debut.
Hmmm. Bond has been tortured, a drill in his head, but just gets up and walks off at the end of it?
Did the cat escape? Does it later turn up as a charred pussy, like Mr Bigglesworth?
Thing is, the whole Blofeld thing. Waltz has played a great Bond villain, and that was in Inglorious B****** and he was cast and discovered by Tarantino, whom the Bond producers have repeatedly rejected as a director (to be fair, he’d want a hefty percentage of the profits).
As the only actor Craig’s Bond could call ‘Short arse’, the diminutive actor, in his grey colourless jacket, weedy high voice and what turns out to be a personal family grievance against our hero, has taken Fleming’s greatest villain, and turned him into… Jimmy Bond!!!
Oh dear.
Not only that, it calls to mind Dr Evil turning out to be Austin’s long lost brother in Goldmember. Well, art has to imitate satire at some point.
That said, I do hope Scott Evil doesn’t catch this movie, cos all time he’d be going ‘Okay, you’re gonna kill him now, right! You know, finish him off? What, you’re just gonna leave him there? Are you crazy?’ to both hero and nemesis.
And what about Blofeld saying, hey, I’m so glad to have finally met you. I’ve been looking forward to our chat. I mean, if so why has he been trying to kill him for the last few movies? Though I suppose he could have claimed to have let him off at the end of CR.
Well, not sure how we are left here though I thoroughly enjoyed it enough to not care about plot holes, but really, with the MI6 building gone it does seem our fictional hero now inhabits a fictional universe, surely it would have made more sense to have the CGI building sunk and the real one remaining? It’s still there in real life last time I looked.
All the Snowdon information stuff is okay, but when Fiennes tells Denbigh about how a 00 has to make a decision about who to kill, and be right, as opposed to a drone, well, ‘Okay, what happened to that Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, when he got mistakenly shot a few years back? I mean, he was innocent, maybe if you’d had more information that wouldn’t have happened? Has anyone been prosecuted for that by the way?’ is what Denbigh could have replied but didn’t. I mean, I don’t mind airing these issues, just make it less one-sided if you do.
Now, Bond goes off into the sunset with the new gal, I guess we were not see poor Monica again. Maybe they figured that with his DB5 back in business, they couldn't have him go off with two old bangers.
Again, ‘take the bloody shot’ never seems to occur to Bond. I mean, it’s implied he has given up as a spy because he hates being an assassin.
To which, with apols to our American friends as I refer to another Brit sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, where Peckham wheeler dealer Del Boy bawls out his gormless younger brother Rodney for not keeping watch as police officers approach while he flogs his hooky gear. A disgruntled Rodney replies ‘For all my years of experience, what am I? A lookout!’
And Del Boy, in a sympathetic tone, says ‘No no, Rodney, you’re wrong. You’re not just a lookout. You’re a BAD lookout!’
No no, Craig’s Bond. You’re not just an assassin… You’re a BAD assassin.
I mean, really. Look at the record. Le Chiffre? Shot by someone else. Okay, that’s in the novel and it wasn’t part of Bond’s brief to kill him.
Dominic Greene? Doesn’t kill him, lets him be picked up in the desert and killed by others.
Silva? Has two clear shots in highly charged circs, doesn’t kill him either times.
Hinx? Runs away leaving him in the snow.
Blofeld? Misses two opps. Okay, doing a cold blooded takeout on a London street with witnesses, you couldn’t get away with that. Okay (Jean Charles de Menezes) maybe you could.
Contrast that with Bond’s cavalier disregard to the bloke in the Haiti apartment in QoS, Slate who gets thrown off a roof, all the minions he takes out, all the civilians he endangers and all the women who get bumped off through his association, I mean can you really blame Spectre for the death of Fields, M et al, it’s more cos his Bond is a bit of a menace dragging them into his mad world.
Maybe Bond is so disillusioned with his work he doesn’t want to kill the top guys in case they make him an offer at some point, he wants to keep his options open.
What does Spectre stand for? Special Executive for Counter-Intelligence and Real Estate? Well, that’s where the money is. Anyway, if it’s all about info gathering, why are they just randomly setting bombs off killing civilians, or is it that villainous Batman group off The Dark Knight?
What’s more, if they do recast Bond for the next one, going for a younger guy, like Henry Cavill, what happens to Blofeld? If they are meant to be contemporaries pretty much, how can they have a 32 year old Bond and Blofeld in late 40s? Will they recast Blofeld as a 32 year old? If they go for a black Bond, well, it might seem a bit odd now having Blofeld calling him a cuckoo, his opposition might seem a bit racist. In fact, there’s another phrase synonymous with Cuckoo in the Nest that you shouldn't use. It just doesn’t seem to fit to have Idris Elba with that history, hey, not that you can't teach black guys to ski, but it's like that Airplane joke about Jewish athletes, when a lady requested a little light reading. I guess I'm on dodgy ground here, but my point is it sort of fits Craig’s Bond but he might be bowing out anyway. Any future director - and star - is going to be lumbered with this backstory.
But if Craig comes back, well, I guess we’ll see poor Mads bite the bullet in the next pts, just as Tracey would have done had Lazenby stayed on for the next one. Lingering shots of resentment by Blofeld suggest this, or maybe he’ll just devise a plan to make all women beautiful and destroy all men over 5 ft 4in.
Not so much of London in the next one, please, but if Mendes doesn’t come back, can we keep Hoyte Van Hoytema as cinematographer?
Anyway, despite all the objections, I found this the most impressive Bond film in a long time, even if they have slightly fudged the CR brief of bringing out a new style of movie with Craig’s tenure.
Thought the CGI was some of the worst of the series and my daughter who saw it with me commented that some of the helicopter CGI looked like 1960's backdrop
The green screen and blue screen work in the pre-title sequence is embarrassing. Can you believe ILM worked on this movie? No, neither can I.
I think I have realised the problem I have is : They did a brilliant job with building the story of Spectre being this huge organised syndicate, and Waltz a ultra cool super villain and Hinx the tough henchman, and then did nothing special with it, there was no grand master plan to nuke fort knox, or create a race of superbeings whilst destroying humanity. All it appears they were doing was trying to control the Spy networks and control the CCTV globally,
And it was to have an insider on the inside, ie Denbigh, who would wreck it and bring the worlds agencies to their knees. A conference was called and got defeated by one vote - but the aim was to have the worlds spy organisation under one man
Don't you think thats sinister?
Yes I take your point, and agree, but I don't think it was emphasised to make it seem sinister enough, or that it was just one step in a grander scheme, which they could have done, the torture scene was poorly done and unnecessary, and belittled the Blofeld character. this was the first Bond film I have come out of the cinema feeling underwhelmed, and I am trying to figure out why, the actors all performed well, especially Waltz, Bautista, Craig, Q, and Feinnes, the Action was good, I just think they missed an opportunity after such a good build up, and I don't know how it could have been better, sure its not as bad as Moonraker, but it's No Casino royale either
I just think they missed an opportunity after such a good build up...
You mean they missed an opportunity to make a better film after they made it and the trailers and fans built it up afterwards. How silly of them. I hope they're taking note.
Pros.
Daniel Craig was at his most confident and relaxed here, which I enjoyed given how we've seen him grow over the last few films.
Superb PTS and opening credits.
All the action scenes were excellently choreographed and thrilling.
Train fight was brutal.
Most of the comedic pieces were perfect.
I liked how M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner were used.
It was a pleasant call-back to the all action extravaganzas of the past.
Cons.
Christoph Waltz as Blofeld (He was just too hammy, never threatening or menacing and he didn't even come across as that intelligent).
Blofeld being Bond's adoptive brother wasn't needed and made their connection seem kind of petty.
Madeleine Swann (Lea Seydoux was fine, I just thought the character was weak).
I didn't like how Denbigh was used and I think it would be much more interesting if he wasn't part of Spectre.
Terrible theme song.
Newman's score was forgettable.
Bond not shooting Blofeld was more suited to Batman than Bond.
I also agree that the film felt like some key ingredient was missing.
On the whole I found SPECTRE to be quite good. To me it certainly felt much more like a Connery style Bond film, with lots of exciting action sequences and plenty of subtle humour throughout. It isn't up there with Casino Royale or even Skyfall and does have some large flaws, yet it does make a good addition to the series.
I just think they missed an opportunity after such a good build up...
You mean they missed an opportunity to make a better film after they made it and the trailers and fans built it up afterwards. How silly of them. I hope they're taking note.
No I mean that the first hour is very good, but the finale and last 40 minutes are fairly hollow
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
I just think they missed an opportunity after such a good build up...
You mean they missed an opportunity to make a better film after they made it and the trailers and fans built it up afterwards. How silly of them. I hope they're taking note.
No I mean that the first hour is very good, but the finale and last 40 minutes are fairly hollow
Ah... OK I agree it needed a better and more bolshy finale.
Thought the CGI was some of the worst of the series and my daughter who saw it with me commented that some of the helicopter CGI looked like 1960's backdrop
The worst in the series was Pierce Brosnan ice surfing in DAD.... I must say i did not have a problem with it. When I saw skyfall for the first time it was shameful to see the CGI with daniel craig on the motor on the istanbul rooftop, I did not have that watching spectre.
Pros.
Daniel Craig was at his most confident and relaxed here, which I enjoyed given how we've seen him grow over the last few films.
Superb PTS and opening credits.
All the action scenes were excellently choreographed and thrilling.
Train fight was brutal.
Most of the comedic pieces were perfect.
I liked how M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner were used.
It was a pleasant call-back to the all action extravaganzas of the past.
Cons.
Christoph Waltz as Blofeld (He was just too hammy, never threatening or menacing and he didn't even come across as that intelligent).
Blofeld being Bond's adoptive brother wasn't needed and made their connection seem kind of petty.
Madeleine Swann (Lea Seydoux was fine, I just thought the character was weak).
I didn't like how Denbigh was used and I think it would be much more interesting if he wasn't part of Spectre.
Terrible theme song.
Newman's score was forgettable.
Bond not shooting Blofeld was more suited to Batman than Bond.
I also agree that the film felt like some key ingredient was missing.
On the whole I found SPECTRE to be quite good. To me it certainly felt much more like a Connery style Bond film, with lots of exciting action sequences and plenty of subtle humour throughout. It isn't up there with Casino Royale or even Skyfall and does have some large flaws, yet it does make a good addition to the series.
I agree with you, except from M, Penny and Tanner.. we see them too much in London. I would like to see Bond vs the bad guy not the whole MI6 vs bad people.
Agree with you on Blofeld, we miss the evil plan in this film and the threatening character.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
I fail to see the reasoning of "no evil plan". Seriously? When it comes to world domination, that is about the most perfect 'evil' plan you could get.
One of my big problems is that it's never explained how Le Chiffre, Greene, and Silva all fitted into SPECTRE. It's just stated rather than being explained.
In Skyfall, it seemed like Silva was motivated purely by personal revenge rather than any greater motive. In fact, I struggle to find an over-arching motive for his actions, unless it's just destabilizing MI6?
SPECTRE was always an acronym for Special Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. Perhaps Silva had joined for the Revenge department...
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
One of my big problems is that it's never explained how Le Chiffre, Greene, and Silva all fitted into SPECTRE. It's just stated rather than being explained.
In Skyfall, it seemed like Silva was motivated purely by personal revenge rather than any greater motive. In fact, I struggle to find an over-arching motive for his actions, unless it's just destabilizing MI6?
SPECTRE was always an acronym for Special Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. Perhaps Silva had joined for the Revenge department...
And was probably funded by SPECTRE as Blofeld considered M a target which would effect Bond. Which he did state. Tentacles everywhere. It works. Silva wanted revenge and SPECTRE funded him and gave him the tools and contacts to advance his plans.
Thinking about it now, it felt as though it was a film trying to be a Bond film, mixing classic Bond with modern Bond, and it didn't have that soul that other Bond films have. It just sort of felt.....empty, it didn't feel like as much heart went into it, compared to SF or CR.
Rather like the Brosnan efforts. Just what "soul" did Die another Day have?
The reason why DAD is considered the weakest of Brosnan movies is only because the others were so good!
Thinking about it now, it felt as though it was a film trying to be a Bond film, mixing classic Bond with modern Bond, and it didn't have that soul that other Bond films have. It just sort of felt.....empty, it didn't feel like as much heart went into it, compared to SF or CR.
Rather like the Brosnan efforts. Just what "soul" did Die another Day have?
The reason why DAD is considered the weakest of Brosnan movies is only because the others were so good!
And because it's dire.
I smell a rat
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Thought the CGI was some of the worst of the series and my daughter who saw it with me commented that some of the helicopter CGI looked like 1960's backdrop
The worst in the series was Pierce Brosnan ice surfing in DAD....
Absolutely. Let's keep things in perspective, here! ) Looking forward to seeing all of this terrible CGI, hollow-feeling narrative, shallow content, no chemistry between the leads...and hearing the terrible, lazy, melody-less score, etc., et al.) ...in another week's time
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
This is the first Craig Bond filmed ive watched ,and thought ,there is nothing in this film that id want to buy ,unlike CR QOS SF all have iconic clothing and items ,that we discus in great detail on where or how to obtain hem ,but Spectre ,there is nothing of Bonds ,that I want to go out and buy or own , shame ,because a lot of the threads here are about his clothes .
By the way, did I tell you, I was "Mad"?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
This is the first Craig Bond filmed ive watched ,and thought ,there is nothing in this film that id want to buy ,unlike CR QOS SF all have iconic clothing and items ,that we discus in great detail on where or how to obtain hem ,but Spectre ,there is nothing of Bonds ,that I want to go out and buy or own , shame ,because a lot of the threads here are about his clothes .
I feel the same. Apart from the watch, there's nothing that inspires me to go forth and get. The Vega holster is his coolest accessory.
Although, I did get these, not exactly the same as the screen used ones, but I like the brand. English, rich heritage and history, classic, light and tough. Plus I'll use them to death...
excuse my ignorance ,is the Vega ,the leather shoulder holster or was it that natty suede jobby in the Morrocan scene, ,but again no use to me , but you,
By the way, did I tell you, I was "Mad"?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,541MI6 Agent
This is the first Craig Bond filmed ive watched ,and thought ,there is nothing in this film that id want to buy ,unlike CR QOS SF all have iconic clothing and items ,that we discus in great detail on where or how to obtain hem ,but Spectre ,there is nothing of Bonds ,that I want to go out and buy or own , shame ,because a lot of the threads here are about his clothes .
I feel the same. Apart from the watch, there's nothing that inspires me to go forth and get. The Vega holster is his coolest accessory.
Although, I did get these, not exactly the same as the screen used ones, but I like the brand. English, rich heritage and history, classic, light and tough. Plus I'll use them to death...
my nephew ,tells me that Hackett stock all the Spectre Globe trotter range ,
Just seen it a second time. I'll do the old pros and cons like others have:
Pros:
- Best PTS in the entire series IMO
- Daniel Craig's performance
- The story was gripping
- The first SPECTRE meeting was amazing and tense and mysterious
- Christoph Waltz (absolute Psychopath)
- Hinx (although I'd like to have heard more dialogue from him)
- Madeline Swann
- M was great and had some great lines. M, Moneypenny, and Q were used well
- The torture scene
- The train fight
- The desert base
- The Blofeld reveal, including white cat
- The theme song MUSICALLY (not vocally)
- The title sequence
- How past films were mentioned, and how Quantum and past villains were revealed to be connected to SPECTRE
- Good callbacks
- Mr White scene
- Judi Dench cameo
- The clinic, which reminded me of Piz Gloria
- The Q in ski lift scene, which reminded me of FYEO
- C's death
- Blofeld's scar
Cons
- The score (same music as Skyfall half the time, therefore very lazy and distracting)
- The theme song vocally (Tune is fine)
- It felt a little too long in places
- Blofeld's reasoning for hating bond seemed petty and childish (but on the plus side, this shows how insane he really is!)
- I don't like how it's implied that bond leaves the service. It makes me worry that DC won't return, but I want him to
One more thought:
This film should be a 15. How LTK is a 15 and this is a 12a is beyond me. IMO, this is way more violent than LTK, and the most violent in the entire series. Mainly because of the drilling torture scene, and Hinx crushing the guy's eyeballs. And I suppose Mr White's death too. What part of LTK is more violent than any of that tbh? ?:)
This is the first Craig Bond filmed ive watched ,and thought ,there is nothing in this film that id want to buy ,unlike CR QOS SF all have iconic clothing and items ,that we discus in great detail on where or how to obtain hem ,but Spectre ,there is nothing of Bonds ,that I want to go out and buy or own , shame ,because a lot of the threads here are about his clothes .
I feel the same. Apart from the watch, there's nothing that inspires me to go forth and get. The Vega holster is his coolest accessory.
Although, I did get these, not exactly the same as the screen used ones, but I like the brand. English, rich heritage and history, classic, light and tough. Plus I'll use them to death...
my nephew ,tells me that Hackett stock all the Spectre Globe trotter range ,
Not the same as the ones seen on screen though, and about 30% more expensive. I looked at them and you can get the same blue/black versions without the small Bond branding in the same store for much less. The screen used ones are brown, not blue and black like the SPECTRE range. The screen used brown originals are about 40% less than the blue and black licenced range.
Comments
And it was to have an insider on the inside, ie Denbigh, who would wreck it and bring the worlds agencies to their knees. A conference was called and got defeated by one vote - but the aim was to have the worlds spy organisation under one man
Don't you think thats sinister?
So yes, I loved the look of it, the cinematography... the scope. Best of all it does tie up some of the disparate parts of Craig's previous three movies, so you may feel better disposed towards, say QoS. Parts of it put me in mind of that Italian art house movie, The Great Beauty, and others the Jack Nicholson film of the 70s, The Passenger. There is a real eeriness at times, there are also nods to Craig's Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
That said, there are still plot holes, just not as glaring as in SF, and it does go a bit crap for the final reel imo, in contrast to how it was previously. Some of the 'issues' it explores are dealt with in a bit of a pat way. And it is bigger on atmosphere, locale and tension than on action.
My enjoyment was massively enhanced by having studiously avoided spoilers so I urge you to continue the good work if you have done the same, and hold out till you see it. It will be like when you saw the Bond films as a kid.
Loeffs, I wouldn't read the rest of this. You read my QoS review when I made a jokey German reference at the beginning of it, and then you knew everything. Unless, when you watch SP, you want the ghost of NP sat beside you, as if whispering into your ear...
Overall, while I can list the bad points, and now will do, the odd thing is that it didn't mar my enjoyment of the movie, cos I bought in to it.
So yes, we have the gun barrel at the beginning, and Craig manages his walk correctly, only on the 4th time, still, Connery only did his on TB and he wobbled a bit after firing. The first shots didn't impressive really but that is possibly because I didn't realise it was a tracking shot, never quite seen the point of those unless they are really good eg in Snake Eyes or GoodFellas. Not sure why Craig needed his skeleton mask, he's always been quite gaunt... When he takes it off, it's a case of, mate don't bother, put it back on!
I will miss making these jokes when Craig hangs up his shoulder holster.
It's a great bit of timing to have it set around Halloween i.e. now. First bit of past Bond reference, as Bond forgoes the gal to step out on the balcony ledge as in DAF, then strikes an assassin pose as with LTK in Isthmus City, but also CR the book when he has to shoot through a window to earn his 00 status. Not quite sure where the big explosion comes from, not from Bond, what's that about? This is a good example of my not knowing what is going on in the film, and enjoyably not caring.
It's not going to be a credible film, as Bond chooses to fall into a collapsing building rather than scramble back onto the ledge like any sensible person would. Then we have a chase, but the print seems overexposed, maybe to camouflage the green screen effects of the upcoming helicopter chase.
And the chase is very very good, I guess a nod to FYEO's pts, the last time a certain someone in the EON franchise made an appearance. I must admit the tension does come from fear that the copter will crash into the gathered people below, and if that happens it will be again Bond's fault, he doesn't seem to much care for the ones he's paid to protect does he? Still, it is thrilling stuff and when it segues into the theme, it's great stuff, like the Bonds of yore. I am okay with Sam Smith's song, I always found Adele's SF depressing if sumptuously produced. Not sure about two women fondling Craig’s torso, it’s a bit Alan Partridge and I don’t know why he has to be in the credits, that only came about in the Moore era to capitalise on his male model good looks.
The thing is, if you are toned, buff and 38, as Bond was in CR, that is one thing. But toned, buff and 48, as he is here, it’s another. Sorry, but you can’t argue with time. There’s a local tramp who, first sunny spring day, takes his top off and sits with a beer outside the Marquis of Granby pub. He has not an ounce of fat on his lean, walnut coloured torso. He had a full head of hair to be proud off. But it just doesn’t count, mate. Not when you’re knocking on. You can have all the trappings of your 20s, but you can’t buy back your promise. Pay attention, all you young things out there.
Bit of a theme going on in the credits.
After that we meet M again, and it’s okay, not sure if they are accentuating his teeth in profile. Finnes is good but has lost weight and with his lanky receding hair puts me in mind of Rigsby, the moaning landlord of [UK Seventies sitcom] Rising Damp.
“Myyyyyyyyy God, I don’t know, what’s the world coming to? I’ve got some young whippersnapper who’s looking to abolish MI6 because of cutbacks, I’ve got a 00 on the loose and he’s just written off a new car, and I’m expecting the Lord Mayor to come round this evening! Not only that, but Vienna has absconded with this Oberhauser fellow, says that with a nationality like that they’re bound to get on like a house on fire! There’s gratitude for you!
"All that premium cat food I bought him too! He means nothing to me, Vienna!"
“You seem to appreciate the finer things in life Miss Moneypenny, can I not , perhaps, tempt you to a chicken kiev round my place tonight…? I have a bottle of Blue Nun in the fridge”
Anyway, we see Bond’s pad again and it’s exactly right, just how it should be. Also we see Dench’s M again, great, I thought it would be good to have her in a flashback, sadly my dream of a fleeting Connery cameo doesn’t occur. Must say, my vision would have been less contrived than to have M just pop up and say, oh, if I snuff it, look into this will you… But I do like the dialogue in this film more, everyone is more relaxed this time round, even if Rory Kinnear gets the dead hand exposition role now.
The Rome stuff is great, and it looks wonderful. Best, there is this brooding menace that builds and builds and the meeting you see Bond gatecrash is genuinely frightening. I think it is similar to Eyes Wide Shut.
That said, the eye gorging scene is a disgrace.
I’m not even sure what the point of it is, the Hinx just shows up and duffs this bloke up without forewarning, I mean there are no real skills to that and how does he know this isn’t one of you know who’s fave henchmen? It would make more sense if the whole thing had been set up by the head honcho in the first place, cos he hated that guy. In fact, I wondered if Hinx wouldn’t turn out to be Blofeld, as that is how he was said to be in the TB book very hands on in terms of meting out violence, and a big physical presence.
Anyway, next it’s a car chase, not to obad, no other traffic around oddly. This may be a theme of the film, the emptiness mirroring Bond’s inner life, or it just may be that they realise they’re crap with extras! I do like the way the gadgets don’t work, but really I just liked the feel of the movie and it makes me wonder if that isn’t down to the cinematographer. I read somewhere that he often has more of a hand in the film than the director, and as this is the variable here, maybe that’s true.
Not sure why Bond goes off to the snowy place, still looks great. Good to see Mr White again, it is all tying up with past films. Still going on about Bond being out of his depth. When he gets to the Pearly Gates, he’ll be telling St Peter… we have people everywhere, you are in over your head, now let me through…”
Oh, we had a sex scene with Monica. Wow. I mean, eh? This didn’t seem like a plot oversight, as I thought she’d reappear. Her character is quite right when she says Craig has bought him only five minutes more, as that’s how long she appears in the movie. Now…. sex. I mean, really, does she actually do the deed then put back on all her negligee? Or maybe Bond, under stress, shot his wad too soon, before she’d got undressed, and they’d just spent the night cuddling?
Was she brought in just to bump the average age of the Bond girl up to, say 35, which would still be 12 years younger than Craig?
Still, do like the dialogue in all this, but if you are doing a realistic movie in feel, then the car chase should reflect that, or it just won’t be exciting, just formulaic.
Love the laboratory place, very Piz Gloria. Where did Bond get the plane? The chase is then like GE with Bond in the tank and the gal looking anxiously as he bears down on the car.
I do like the scenes with Lea Seydoux, she is very good and at this point the film reaches a peak for me, I find it quite affecting as she talks about her past, at White’s ‘safehouse’. But it tells you something about Craig’s Bond that now I don’t bat an eyelid when he and the gal just show up in evening dress to the villain’s desert hideout, depite all the warnings, like to the opening of an art gallery. I mean, WTF? A homage to QoS, in turn a homage to TSWLM, but it tells you something about Moore’s Bond that at last he and Bach had a reason to be dressed up, having met in a nightclub and been bounced by events into stowing away in the back of Jaws’ van.
Actually, I wasn’t sure what was going on, just going with the ride. I mean, why are they expecting to be picked up? Is Oberhausen’s lair on Air B&B or something?
As for the big reveal, this is well done, and Vienna makes an appearance! The sheer eeriness of the film until this point make me go with it, it is very well done. However… I just don’t think at this point that Bond has any chemistry with his gals. It could be a seismic shift in sexual culture, or Craig’s age in the current climate, but the whole call and response ritual that worked for Moore at that age just doesn’t work here. They just seem to be going thru the motions cos it is in the script. Anyway, in the Bourne films the sex just happens, it is never at the hero’s instigation in terms of making a joke or being flash. There’s been a shift in attitudes and it just doesn’t look like Craig’s Bond is thinking about sex much these days or is in the frame for it.
Also, is it just me or does Craig look better when he's not Bond? I saw him in a clip in a BBC doc interviewed by Jonathan Ross for CR and he looked really young, spiky hair, he never looked like that in his debut.
Hmmm. Bond has been tortured, a drill in his head, but just gets up and walks off at the end of it?
Did the cat escape? Does it later turn up as a charred pussy, like Mr Bigglesworth?
Thing is, the whole Blofeld thing. Waltz has played a great Bond villain, and that was in Inglorious B****** and he was cast and discovered by Tarantino, whom the Bond producers have repeatedly rejected as a director (to be fair, he’d want a hefty percentage of the profits).
As the only actor Craig’s Bond could call ‘Short arse’, the diminutive actor, in his grey colourless jacket, weedy high voice and what turns out to be a personal family grievance against our hero, has taken Fleming’s greatest villain, and turned him into… Jimmy Bond!!!
Oh dear.
Not only that, it calls to mind Dr Evil turning out to be Austin’s long lost brother in Goldmember. Well, art has to imitate satire at some point.
That said, I do hope Scott Evil doesn’t catch this movie, cos all time he’d be going ‘Okay, you’re gonna kill him now, right! You know, finish him off? What, you’re just gonna leave him there? Are you crazy?’ to both hero and nemesis.
And what about Blofeld saying, hey, I’m so glad to have finally met you. I’ve been looking forward to our chat. I mean, if so why has he been trying to kill him for the last few movies? Though I suppose he could have claimed to have let him off at the end of CR.
Well, not sure how we are left here though I thoroughly enjoyed it enough to not care about plot holes, but really, with the MI6 building gone it does seem our fictional hero now inhabits a fictional universe, surely it would have made more sense to have the CGI building sunk and the real one remaining? It’s still there in real life last time I looked.
All the Snowdon information stuff is okay, but when Fiennes tells Denbigh about how a 00 has to make a decision about who to kill, and be right, as opposed to a drone, well, ‘Okay, what happened to that Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, when he got mistakenly shot a few years back? I mean, he was innocent, maybe if you’d had more information that wouldn’t have happened? Has anyone been prosecuted for that by the way?’ is what Denbigh could have replied but didn’t. I mean, I don’t mind airing these issues, just make it less one-sided if you do.
Now, Bond goes off into the sunset with the new gal, I guess we were not see poor Monica again. Maybe they figured that with his DB5 back in business, they couldn't have him go off with two old bangers.
Again, ‘take the bloody shot’ never seems to occur to Bond. I mean, it’s implied he has given up as a spy because he hates being an assassin.
To which, with apols to our American friends as I refer to another Brit sitcom, Only Fools and Horses, where Peckham wheeler dealer Del Boy bawls out his gormless younger brother Rodney for not keeping watch as police officers approach while he flogs his hooky gear. A disgruntled Rodney replies ‘For all my years of experience, what am I? A lookout!’
And Del Boy, in a sympathetic tone, says ‘No no, Rodney, you’re wrong. You’re not just a lookout. You’re a BAD lookout!’
No no, Craig’s Bond. You’re not just an assassin… You’re a BAD assassin.
I mean, really. Look at the record. Le Chiffre? Shot by someone else. Okay, that’s in the novel and it wasn’t part of Bond’s brief to kill him.
Dominic Greene? Doesn’t kill him, lets him be picked up in the desert and killed by others.
Silva? Has two clear shots in highly charged circs, doesn’t kill him either times.
Hinx? Runs away leaving him in the snow.
Blofeld? Misses two opps. Okay, doing a cold blooded takeout on a London street with witnesses, you couldn’t get away with that. Okay (Jean Charles de Menezes) maybe you could.
Contrast that with Bond’s cavalier disregard to the bloke in the Haiti apartment in QoS, Slate who gets thrown off a roof, all the minions he takes out, all the civilians he endangers and all the women who get bumped off through his association, I mean can you really blame Spectre for the death of Fields, M et al, it’s more cos his Bond is a bit of a menace dragging them into his mad world.
Maybe Bond is so disillusioned with his work he doesn’t want to kill the top guys in case they make him an offer at some point, he wants to keep his options open.
What does Spectre stand for? Special Executive for Counter-Intelligence and Real Estate? Well, that’s where the money is. Anyway, if it’s all about info gathering, why are they just randomly setting bombs off killing civilians, or is it that villainous Batman group off The Dark Knight?
What’s more, if they do recast Bond for the next one, going for a younger guy, like Henry Cavill, what happens to Blofeld? If they are meant to be contemporaries pretty much, how can they have a 32 year old Bond and Blofeld in late 40s? Will they recast Blofeld as a 32 year old? If they go for a black Bond, well, it might seem a bit odd now having Blofeld calling him a cuckoo, his opposition might seem a bit racist. In fact, there’s another phrase synonymous with Cuckoo in the Nest that you shouldn't use. It just doesn’t seem to fit to have Idris Elba with that history, hey, not that you can't teach black guys to ski, but it's like that Airplane joke about Jewish athletes, when a lady requested a little light reading. I guess I'm on dodgy ground here, but my point is it sort of fits Craig’s Bond but he might be bowing out anyway. Any future director - and star - is going to be lumbered with this backstory.
But if Craig comes back, well, I guess we’ll see poor Mads bite the bullet in the next pts, just as Tracey would have done had Lazenby stayed on for the next one. Lingering shots of resentment by Blofeld suggest this, or maybe he’ll just devise a plan to make all women beautiful and destroy all men over 5 ft 4in.
Not so much of London in the next one, please, but if Mendes doesn’t come back, can we keep Hoyte Van Hoytema as cinematographer?
Anyway, despite all the objections, I found this the most impressive Bond film in a long time, even if they have slightly fudged the CR brief of bringing out a new style of movie with Craig’s tenure.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Betcha glad I didn't quote your post...
You mean they missed an opportunity to make a better film after they made it and the trailers and fans built it up afterwards. How silly of them. I hope they're taking note.
Pros.
Daniel Craig was at his most confident and relaxed here, which I enjoyed given how we've seen him grow over the last few films.
Superb PTS and opening credits.
All the action scenes were excellently choreographed and thrilling.
Train fight was brutal.
Most of the comedic pieces were perfect.
I liked how M, Q, Moneypenny and Tanner were used.
It was a pleasant call-back to the all action extravaganzas of the past.
Cons.
Christoph Waltz as Blofeld (He was just too hammy, never threatening or menacing and he didn't even come across as that intelligent).
Blofeld being Bond's adoptive brother wasn't needed and made their connection seem kind of petty.
Madeleine Swann (Lea Seydoux was fine, I just thought the character was weak).
I didn't like how Denbigh was used and I think it would be much more interesting if he wasn't part of Spectre.
Terrible theme song.
Newman's score was forgettable.
Bond not shooting Blofeld was more suited to Batman than Bond.
I also agree that the film felt like some key ingredient was missing.
On the whole I found SPECTRE to be quite good. To me it certainly felt much more like a Connery style Bond film, with lots of exciting action sequences and plenty of subtle humour throughout. It isn't up there with Casino Royale or even Skyfall and does have some large flaws, yet it does make a good addition to the series.
No I mean that the first hour is very good, but the finale and last 40 minutes are fairly hollow
Ah... OK
I really wish we had a item of a man bashing his head against the wall
This will have to do?
It was a PPK/Gyrojet hybrid. So secret they couldn't tell us about it.
The worst in the series was Pierce Brosnan ice surfing in DAD.... I must say i did not have a problem with it. When I saw skyfall for the first time it was shameful to see the CGI with daniel craig on the motor on the istanbul rooftop, I did not have that watching spectre.
Sadly I must agree!
I agree with you, except from M, Penny and Tanner.. we see them too much in London. I would like to see Bond vs the bad guy not the whole MI6 vs bad people.
Agree with you on Blofeld, we miss the evil plan in this film and the threatening character.
SPECTRE was always an acronym for Special Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. Perhaps Silva had joined for the Revenge department...
And was probably funded by SPECTRE as Blofeld considered M a target which would effect Bond. Which he did state. Tentacles everywhere. It works. Silva wanted revenge and SPECTRE funded him and gave him the tools and contacts to advance his plans.
My friend, perhaps it's time to re-watch the Brosnan films!
The reason why DAD is considered the weakest of Brosnan movies is only because the others were so good!
And because it's dire.
Absolutely. Let's keep things in perspective, here!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I feel the same. Apart from the watch, there's nothing that inspires me to go forth and get. The Vega holster is his coolest accessory.
Although, I did get these, not exactly the same as the screen used ones, but I like the brand. English, rich heritage and history, classic, light and tough. Plus I'll use them to death...
my nephew ,tells me that Hackett stock all the Spectre Globe trotter range ,
Pros:
- Best PTS in the entire series IMO
- Daniel Craig's performance
- The story was gripping
- The first SPECTRE meeting was amazing and tense and mysterious
- Christoph Waltz (absolute Psychopath)
- Hinx (although I'd like to have heard more dialogue from him)
- Madeline Swann
- M was great and had some great lines. M, Moneypenny, and Q were used well
- The torture scene
- The train fight
- The desert base
- The Blofeld reveal, including white cat
- The theme song MUSICALLY (not vocally)
- The title sequence
- How past films were mentioned, and how Quantum and past villains were revealed to be connected to SPECTRE
- Good callbacks
- Mr White scene
- Judi Dench cameo
- The clinic, which reminded me of Piz Gloria
- The Q in ski lift scene, which reminded me of FYEO
- C's death
- Blofeld's scar
Cons
- The score (same music as Skyfall half the time, therefore very lazy and distracting)
- The theme song vocally (Tune is fine)
- It felt a little too long in places
- Blofeld's reasoning for hating bond seemed petty and childish (but on the plus side, this shows how insane he really is!)
- I don't like how it's implied that bond leaves the service. It makes me worry that DC won't return, but I want him to
One more thought:
This film should be a 15. How LTK is a 15 and this is a 12a is beyond me. IMO, this is way more violent than LTK, and the most violent in the entire series. Mainly because of the drilling torture scene, and Hinx crushing the guy's eyeballs. And I suppose Mr White's death too. What part of LTK is more violent than any of that tbh? ?:)
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Not the same as the ones seen on screen though, and about 30% more expensive. I looked at them and you can get the same blue/black versions without the small Bond branding in the same store for much less. The screen used ones are brown, not blue and black like the SPECTRE range. The screen used brown originals are about 40% less than the blue and black licenced range.