Former SPECTRE Members (SPOILERS)

Agent Lee

Just curious how believable everyone thought it was that Silva was a member of SPECTRE. It wasn't a stretch to imagine that Le Chiffre, Greene and the rest of Quantum were SPECTRE members, but I found myself wondering if Silva being a member of SPECTRE was a bit of a stretch. Seemed to me in SF that he was a completely independent contractor, what with all the "You could choose your own missions" shtick. I suppose it could be argued that SPECTRE was an organization that gave him the freedom to do what he wanted, and it was in Blofeld's best interest to hire someone who had a personal vendetta against M and MI6, but still...

Thoughts?

Loeffelholz

I don't think Silva's ego allowed for him to admit to Bond that he might be working for anyone; why would he? He had personal motivations, and they worked for him.

Sir Miles

Agent Lee wrote:

I suppose it could be argued that SPECTRE was an organization that gave him the freedom to do what he wanted, and it was in Blofeld's best interest to hire someone who had a personal vendetta against M and MI6, but still...

Thoughts?

I think you've answered your own question -{

Asp9mm

Silva was his own man, possibly funded by the SPECTRE revenge department as his agenda matched their own.

Ornithologist

Asked myself the same question, but for another reason: CR, QoS and SP are on the same timeline. I'd liked to think that Skyfall wasn't, because it has the "Is Bond too old for his job" theme, which doesn't fit at all after his first two missions. With Spectre, it is now clear that they are all direct sequels.

Once you accept that, I think, Silva as "part" or rather associate of Spectre makes perfect sense. He was a former member of an intelligence agency with psychological problems and a motive for revenge. He fit their job description perfectly. It even gives his whole "I have to kill M" plot more sense, as that really prepared the ground for the planned shake-up of British intelligence services.

What bothered me more was that there was no explanation about Quantum, which really seemed to have been set up to be it's own organization, with a leadership structure, etc... But it's okay. It can be argued that it was a sub-division of SPECTRE headed (possibly) by Mr White, which screwed up in QoS and was then discontinued, along with it's possible leader Mr White losing favor?

Thunderpussy

Spectre is a modern organisation, operating in a " Cut throat" business.
So it is logical for it to seek out the best, that each nation has to offer.
"Out sourcing" is an accepted business idea,used by many corporations
so giving a contract to an " Independent " , who has a strong personal
Goal to maximise his achievement trajectory, would have been a wise
Business Decision. ...... It's what Lord Sugar would have done.

IanT

I have long thought Lord Sugar has something Spectre-ish about him

Thunderpussy

Karen Brady his right hand woman is certainly an Irma Bunt character, in her
Guise as The Baroness Brady, she was one of the few members of the house of
Lords to vote " FOR" the cutting of tax payments to the poor ! so she's definitely
got the credentials to be a member of Spectre. )

Unknown007

Or was Quantum the name made up for SPECTRE during the period of time the producers couldn't use the name due to the legal proceedings?

Thunderpussy

Yes, I'd say that was the case.

Ornithologist

Unknown007 wrote:

Or was Quantum the name made up for SPECTRE during the period of time the producers couldn't use the name due to the legal proceedings?

Probably, but I'd like to think of a way for it to make sense inside the movies' universe. Was the organization actually ever called Quantum on screen? Might have to watch QoS again, soon.

Thunderpussy

Greene did say " I told you everthing about Quantum" so in my mind,
Quantum was an off shoot of Spectre, maybe specifically set up for the
Bolivian project ? Or maybe, They didn't even know themselves. That
Spectre was really controlling them ?

HatThrowingHenchman

Quantum was not SPECTRE when they couldn't use it due to the legal issues, in the film Quantum gets a mention. I think TP is right, Quantum was the south-america branch/ operation of SPECTRE.

Ornithologist

In that case, Bregenz could have been a meeting of SPECTRE, with Greene just representing Quantum, and Blofeld somewhere in the audience, too clever to get up and reveal himself

Thunderpussy

Oh, the speculation will be endless ( and fun) I always loved Greene's speech
About " ... If you don't believe me, then shoot me, keep the money and have a
good night's sleep " very old Spectre.

Agent Kino

I think SPECTRE has always looked for people to hire that could carry out missions against any government agency.

At the beginning, it really is hard to picture Silva working for someone. But then again, how did he fund all of his organization's work? Probably SPECTRE. Plus, he was ruthless like SPECTRE agents normally are.

HatThrowingHenchman

Ornithologist wrote:

In that case, Bregenz could have been a meeting of SPECTRE, with Greene just representing Quantum, and Blofeld somewhere in the audience, too clever to get up and reveal himself

sorry to say, but I don't think so. all of the peoplewore thise Q pins so they were all SPECTRE agents {[]

HatThrowingHenchman

and when Greene, the head of QUANTUM failed with his south america operation, his "friends" (SPECTRE) killed him

Ornithologist

HatThrowingHenchman wrote:

Ornithologist wrote:

In that case, Bregenz could have been a meeting of SPECTRE, with Greene just representing Quantum, and Blofeld somewhere in the audience, too clever to get up and reveal himself

sorry to say, but I don't think so. all of the peoplewore thise Q pins so they were all SPECTRE agents {[]

Do you mean they were all QUANTUM agents?

Thunderpussy

Either way they were all mixed up together, probably double agents ( for Spectre)
Working from inside. With the likes of Guy Haines, working with Max Denbigh to
Get their world wide information network set up.
( I quickly checked about spoilers here)

HatThrowingHenchman

Ornithologist wrote:

HatThrowingHenchman wrote:

Ornithologist wrote:

In that case, Bregenz could have been a meeting of SPECTRE, with Greene just representing Quantum, and Blofeld somewhere in the audience, too clever to get up and reveal himself

sorry to say, but I don't think so. all of the peoplewore thise Q pins so they were all SPECTRE agents {[]

Do you mean they were all QUANTUM agents?

I think so. there is this scene that implies that all of these oeople get this special bag from under the table. this bag containes, as we see the Q pin, so I think that all of these people (they aren't that many) belong to the under-organisation of SPECTRE named Quantum, whose primary objective is the south-america stuff.

Ornithologist

Ok, got it. Makes sense. Was confused by your typo.

HatThrowingHenchman

Ornithologist wrote:

Ok, got it. Makes sense. Was confused by your typo.

oops, my bad -{

Thunderbird 2

Personally, I prefer to think there are more power games at work here.

CR-06. =. Vesper and Le Chiffre are who they appear to be. Vesper works for the treasury, Le Chiffre is a corrupt financier who uses his Maths attuned intelect and gaming skills to make money by any means. Vesper bcomes unstuck by her Quantum boyfriend, Le Chiffre by his unorthadox methods. White himself makes it clear Quantum acted as a facilitator, nothing more. Gaining the winnings looks good for Quantum. Secondary member Obdrhauser however, is unimpressed. To subtle, to slow.

Post QoS. The Greene debacle exposes Quantum to an unprecedented level. The organisation is forced to go underground as key members such as Guy Haines are either captured or disappear. A series of accidents eliminate associate contacts, such as CIA Agent Beam.

Skyfall. Part of the Craig era timeline, but Silva completely exempt from previous events. His agenda was against M-Manf, and his backstory is fleshed out pretty clearly in SF. Nothing to do with Quantum. Though he has a mutual enemy in Bond.

At this time, Quantum has an internal uprising. Hard liners, fed up with the discrete approach of the Greene / Haynes / White comittee (as seen at the Tosca performance) overthrow them. All the old guard are eliminated as a cleansing measure, with only White narrowly escaping by accident. His dying of radiation poisoning speaks volumes. The new management re christen the organisation SPECTRE, which outlines its new hard fisted aproach. Obdrhauser / Blofeld who orchistrated this change is in supreme command. Hinx is a junior underling at this point. Denby, due to hus computer skills replaces Colin Mitchell as key MI5 / MI6 mole. What with MI6 having its own public issues, and the downfall of M-Manf, the timing is perfect.

The events of SP.

Spectreville

I too originally thought Silva was his own boss, but I read a feature in Empire a few weeks before the film came out.
Purvis and Wade specifically referred to Silva as SPECTRE's IT man which made me suspicious because it felt like backtracking and pretended it was your plan all along to connect the previous films' villains.
It didn't bother me in the film. I suppose it makes sense that Silva had the help of an organisation like SPECTRE to plan his elaborate capture and escape from MI6.

Thunderpussy

" Silva as SPECTRE's IT man" {[]

I love to see the scene when Blofeld calls him up with a problem and
Silva asks him if " He's tried switching it off and on again ?"
Although it all helps to tie up the past stories and Characters.

Spectreville

Yeah, Silva is not the guy I'd want to call if I forgot my password!

Thunderpussy

) ) )

Thunderbird 2

Spectreville wrote:

I too originally thought Silva was his own boss, but I read a feature in Empire a few weeks before the film came out.
Purvis and Wade specifically referred to Silva as SPECTRE's IT man which made me suspicious because it felt like backtracking and pretended it was your plan all along to connect the previous films' villains.
It didn't bother me in the film. I suppose it makes sense that Silva had the help of an organisation like SPECTRE to plan his elaborate capture and escape from MI6.

If its not in the film, it doesn't count. Purvis and Wade show bad wishful thinking flannel there. Hopefully the end result proves they were in the minority. If you try to tie every single thing together, the credibility falls apart. Qos and SF prevent that, as Quantum has significant differences to SPECTRE and we see Silva's server room in SF. He prides himself on his resourcefulness and ability to survive. In a sharp contrast Spectre has an army of digital gurus that answer to Blofeld as well as insipid plant Denbigh.

I think all the Craig films are better as they are, leaving elements open to interpretation. Our interpretation!

Matt S

Thunderbird 2 wrote:

Spectreville wrote:

I too originally thought Silva was his own boss, but I read a feature in Empire a few weeks before the film came out.
Purvis and Wade specifically referred to Silva as SPECTRE's IT man which made me suspicious because it felt like backtracking and pretended it was your plan all along to connect the previous films' villains.
It didn't bother me in the film. I suppose it makes sense that Silva had the help of an organisation like SPECTRE to plan his elaborate capture and escape from MI6.

If its not in the film, it doesn't count. Purvis and Wade show bad wishful thinking flannel there. Hopefully the end result proves they were in the minority. If you try to tie every single thing together, the credibility falls apart. Qos and SF prevent that, as Quantum has significant differences to SPECTRE and we see Silva's server room in SF. He prides himself on his resourcefulness and ability to survive. In a sharp contrast Spectre has an army of digital gurus that answer to Blofeld as well as insipid plant Denbigh.

I think all the Craig films are better as they are, leaving elements open to interpretation. Our interpretation!

So do you accept that Silva is a SPECTRE agent? Going by Skyfall alone, it's assumed he's his own boss. Then Spectre retcons him as a SPECTRE agent working for Blofeld.