Newman: SF vs. SP

heartbroken_mr_drax

Got both of the Newman soundtracks through iTunes yesterday and I've had a good listen.

IMO, SP is a major step up by Newman from SF.

There are some pretty great tracks on the SP album, which I find myself playing again and again as the theme sticks in my head. It's actually got the themes throughout. I also find that Newman uses the Bond theme well.

SF is a boring and dull soundtrack, almost too ambient.

Anyone else got the SP album and have any thoughts?

James Suzuki

I'm pretty excited after hearing that!
Why? Because I loved the Skyfall soundtrack. And, having heard only some tracks from spectre and having not seen the film, was hoping that it was as good

Matt S

For music on it's own, I think SP works better. But I think the music in SP is even worse in the film. His music drags down the film, especially the pacing at the end.

Bond_James_Bond

I think Newman's talents are in character / emotional scenes. Here the soundtrack works very well in SP.
When it comes to the big action parts he really misjudges it in a lot of places - definitely not his strength.

Matt S

Bond_James_Bond wrote:

I think Newman's talents are in character / emotional scenes. Here the soundtrack works very well in SP.
When it comes to the big action parts he really misjudges it in a lot of places - definitely not his strength.

I agree that those are his strengths. The romantic themes are where he excels. The action scenes and the establishing shots he does poorly.

BruceMurdock

I honestly didn't care for either of them but if I had to pick one it would be Skyfall.

armenianmovieman

Skyfall is much better; nothing too emotional or too intense. I can listen to every song on that soundtrack consecutively and enjoy it, which is always a good thing when you're like me and you skip the "emotional" stuff. But for some reason in Skyfall's soundtrack it all flows well.

Spectre has some good songs, but for some reason Skyfall just flows better.

walther p99

I think SF is a much stronger score then SP. Especially since most of the music from SP is rehashed from SF. But the action material in SP is just abysmal and actually detracted from the film. I feel its perhaps the laziest or weakest score I've heard in awhile. SF has some of my favorite tracks from the series, like "Shes mine", "deep water", and "breadcrumbs".

MarcAngeDraco

Overall I do prefer SF to SP. But some of the cues in SP are fantastic - Donna Lucia, Hinx's theme and Vauxhall Bridge are great, but the first track is up there with the very best in the series. In the film, hearing the gun barrel music and then the percussion, and then the Bond theme creeping in as Bond walks on the edge of a building sends shivers down my spine.

Do I want Newman back? No... If not Arnold, I'd love for Dario Marionelli (which we may get if Joe Wright directs a Bond film) or Alexandre Desplat to have a go.

Barbel

walther p99 wrote:

SF has some of my favorite tracks from the series, like "Shes mine", "deep water", and "breadcrumbs".

Not with you there, walther. From Newman's two scores, definitely. From the Craig movies, maybe. From the entire series, no way!

Chriscoop

Out of the two I prefer SP soundtrack as a stand alone in the car etc, Sf has some decent moments for me tennyson and brave new world stand out. But I still think David Arnold does a superior job with bond films as he's such a fan and that shows and I also believe SP with an Arnold soundtrack would have elevated the film. Barry set the bar so high he is still the sound of Bond but Arnold is the only one to capture some of that Barry magic. IMHO

walther p99

Barbel wrote:

walther p99 wrote:

SF has some of my favorite tracks from the series, like "Shes mine", "deep water", and "breadcrumbs".

Not with you there, walther. From Newman's two scores, definitely. From the Craig movies, maybe. From the entire series, no way!

I know I'm in the minority there! )

smirkingrevenge

As a massive Thomas Newman fan since Shawshank Redemption, I was very excited when he was announced as the composer for Skyfall. I remember liking the score a lot when I heard it during the film. I did manage to download an oscar version of the score which is complete and in sequence as I like it more this way. I still listen to it regularly now, it's a great score.

I listened to Spectre on the way to work this morning. I remember in the cinema that I was a little disappointed as he did re-use a lot of Skyfall material, but in retrospect that does sort of make sense considering the films or brothers (or sisters) and almost 2 parts of one story. Or part 4 of a 4 part story! I dunno. Anyway, I really enjoyed Spectre this morning, a lot more than I thought I would. And I actually like the Skyfall callbacks on the album. Sorry, i'm rambling. I can't decide which I prefer yet. Give me a month with Spectre and I'll come back to you. That being said, hate the Sam Smith song and love the Adele track, so Skyfall already scores 1 point! )

Bleuville

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Got both of the Newman soundtracks through iTunes yesterday and I've had a good listen.

IMO, SP is a major step up by Newman from SF.

There are some pretty great tracks on the SP album, which I find myself playing again and again as the theme sticks in my head. It's actually got the themes throughout. I also find that Newman uses the Bond theme well.

SF is a boring and dull soundtrack, almost too ambient.

Anyone else got the SP album and have any thoughts?

I saw the Spectre film 5 times in the cinema(s) and now have the DVD but I also bought the music soundtrack CD which I
play regularly in the car. When I first heard it, I thought the tracks had the "diddle-diddle-diddle, duda-duda-duh" fast beat music too much.. But it's a basis for expanding on the tune. With the snowy plane chase a French horn adds to it.
If you're wanting the Bond theme, with the track 24-Westminster Bridge with the helicopter crash, as it builds up the trumpets
positively scream the theme-which is what I asked for before, in the Music section.
The Donna Lucia and Madeleine themes are pleasant also. and the end-of-film "driving away in the DB5" music is restful.
It does have some elements of Skyfall music -but not too much.

Bleuville.

SilentSpy

I prefer the music in Spectre. More old school Bond. I can barely remember any of the music in Skyfall. Probably because I didn't like the movie that much has something to do with it as well.

Matt S

SilentSpy wrote:

I prefer the music in Spectre. More old school Bond. I can barely remember any of the music in Skyfall. Probably because I didn't like the movie that much has something to do with it as well.

SP is an old-school Bond film, but the music is by no means old-school Bond.

Barbel

This is very true.

MarcAngeDraco

Some tracks were... Donna Lucia, the first track on the album and a couple of others, but you're right - Newman is no John Barry.

Side note: Yes, SP feels like old school Bond, but I hope - whoever reads this - knows that old school Bond means good writing also, not simply a check list.

SilentSpy

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

I prefer the music in Spectre. More old school Bond. I can barely remember any of the music in Skyfall. Probably because I didn't like the movie that much has something to do with it as well.

SP is an old-school Bond film, but the music is by no means old-school Bond.

I didn't say completely old school Bond. But more old school as in compared to a lot of the recent Bond movies. Casino Royale was like that too. I don't think anyone will come close to John Barry though. Michael Giacchino probably did the best for The Incredibles. But that's probably because they wanted John Barry for that movie originally.

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Some tracks were... Donna Lucia, the first track on the album and a couple of others, but you're right - Newman is no John Barry.

Side note: Yes, SP feels like old school Bond, but I hope - whoever reads this - knows that old school Bond means good writing also, not simply a check list.

The best we might get these days seems to be a check list or movie full of homage scenes. But at least the majority of ingredients were in Spectre and because of Daniel Craig's previous three movies the way they presented themselves were a welcome surprise. I don't remember writing a review on Spectre. But the best and highest praise I could say about the movie was that Daniel Craig finally made a Bond movie that could go with my favorites in the series. And not only that but he made one that topped my favorite from Pierce Brosnan.

My biggest or kind of bothersome problem with Spectre is the recent check list addition of get M, Moneypenny, and Q more involved in the story. So instead of getting the classic tour and dinner scene conversation in the villain's lair. That was fairly quickly resolved to get back to tie up the loose ends in London.

Matt S

SilentSpy wrote:

I didn't say completely old school Bond. But more old school as in compared to a lot of the recent Bond movies. Casino Royale was like that too. I don't think anyone will come close to John Barry though. Michael Giacchino probably did the best for The Incredibles. But that's probably because they wanted John Barry for that movie originally.

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

SilentSpy

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

I didn't say completely old school Bond. But more old school as in compared to a lot of the recent Bond movies. Casino Royale was like that too. I don't think anyone will come close to John Barry though. Michael Giacchino probably did the best for The Incredibles. But that's probably because they wanted John Barry for that movie originally.

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

Matt S

SilentSpy wrote:

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

I didn't say completely old school Bond. But more old school as in compared to a lot of the recent Bond movies. Casino Royale was like that too. I don't think anyone will come close to John Barry though. Michael Giacchino probably did the best for The Incredibles. But that's probably because they wanted John Barry for that movie originally.

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

Chriscoop

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

These echo my own feelings, the soundtrack seemed to dull the impact of the visuals for me.

BruceMurdock

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

My thoughts exactly. After the exquisite "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" and "Donna Lucia" everything else fails to live up to those two excellent tracks. The rest is either too much quiet ambient tracks that don't stick out or make an impact, action music with little to no use of the Bond Theme which is criminally underused in this film and too much copy and pasted music from Skyfall. A big disappointment in my book.

Matt S

BruceMurdock wrote:

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

My thoughts exactly. After the exquisite "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" and "Donna Lucia" everything else fails to live up to those two excellent tracks. The rest is either too much quiet ambient tracks that don't stick out or make an impact, action music with little to no use of the Bond Theme which is criminally underused in this film and too much copy and pasted music from Skyfall. A big disappointment in my book.

It's your points I bolded that are what makes this soundtrack so far removed from the old-school Bond music. Even worse is ambient action music. John Barry never wrote "ambient" music. It was always fully developed music that furthered the visuals and characters of the film.

walther p99

The use of the Bond theme at the end of "detonation" is really the only time I think the score has an air of energy, excitement and fun. The lead up to it though is generic and forgettable like most of the score.

SilentSpy

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Next to GoldenEye, Spectre has a more old-school sound. Next to anything David Arnold wrote it does not. It's basically in the same style as Skyfall's score with the same amount of old-school nods. The composing style is still as far from Barry as can be.

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

Your post and the others have me curious if my dislike of Skyfall and only watching that movie once completely made me appreciate the music more in Spectre. From the beginning I thought the music and how it was used was good. I love that scene when Bond notices and takes the Spectre ring in the helicopter. I don't know. Maybe I'll rewatch Skyfall when I get time and compare the music and how it was used in both.

Matt S

SilentSpy wrote:

Matt S wrote:

SilentSpy wrote:

A lot of David Arnold's music was in your face Bond action music to me. Which for Pierce Brosnan's Bond was probably the type of music needed as there were so many action moments. David Arnold's best was from Casino Royale. Also I like the work he did in The World is not Enough.

But with Spectre, a lot of the music seemed to help with the old school feel and at times look of the movie. It's not perfect John Barry. But when taken as a whole with everything else. It's pretty good. And it's the first soundtrack I've purchased since Die Another Day. Which I got that just for the action beats.

For me, Newman's music took away from the old-school feel of the music and had me wondering when they would do so many old-school things in the film whilst having music so far removed from it. And it really took away from the look of the film because it didn't at all match what was on screen.

Your post and the others have me curious if my dislike of Skyfall and only watching that movie once completely made me appreciate the music more in Spectre. From the beginning I thought the music and how it was used was good. I love that scene when Bond notices and takes the Spectre ring in the helicopter. I don't know. Maybe I'll rewatch Skyfall when I get time and compare the music and how it was used in both.

The music is very similar in both films and used in a very similar (poor) way.

BruceMurdock

In the case of Spectre, the music didn't ruin the film for me, I enjoyed the film very much but, I was distracted every time a cue from Skyfall came up. It took me out of the movie and just bugged me.

Barbel

IMHO both SF and SP suffer from the lack of David Arnold and I hope that he returns for Bond 25.

BruceMurdock

Barbel wrote:

IMHO both SF and SP suffer from the lack of David Arnold and I hope that he returns for Bond 25.

I 100% Agree.