Is James Bond an assassin?

OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 585MI6 Agent
edited November 2015 in General James Bond Chat
I think we have no reason to believe that he is a member of a medieval, weed-smoking Islamic sect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins), so why do people keep calling him an assassin (this is done repeatedly in SPECTRE, but earlier as well, e.g. in Octopussy).

Of course the word has another (wider) meaning which arose from the former:

According to Wikipedia, an assassin is also one who commits a targeted murder or assassination.

But is this really what Bond does?

Yes, he has a license to kill (whatever that would mean in real life...)
Yes, he has killed a lot of people (especially in the movies, where Pierce Brosnan holds the record with 18 per movie, on average).
There are also some rather "cold" kills.

However, aside from the PTS in Casino Royale where "it takes two" and TMWTGG, which features an assassin as the villain, has it ever been targeted, in the sense that killing somebody was Bond's mission?

I like to (still) see him primarily as an intelligence agent, who is sent into "the field", usually to investigate, and who kills (a lot) because people constantly try to stop him by killing him.

So he kills in order to do his job. Killing, however, is not his job.

Am I wrong?
"I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
"- That is something to be afraid of."
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Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    In my opinion, it's part of his job. Even Timothy Dalton was order by M to kill
    Puskin and, In TMWTGG Roger Moore states that those he kills are themselves
    Killers and he only kills on the orders of the government.
    In my mind Bond can be an assassin when needed but will disregard his
    Orders when he thinks it unwarranted, as with the sniper in TLD, who he does
    not kill, but merely disarms.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    I think we have no reason to believe that he is a member of a medieval, weed-smoking Islamic sect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins), so why do people keep calling him an assassin (this is done repeatedly in SPECTRE, but earlier as well, e.g. in Octopussy).

    Of course the word has another (wider) meaning which arose from the former:

    According to Wikipedia, an assassin is also one who commits a targeted murder or assassination.

    But is this really what Bond does?

    Yes, he has a license to kill (whatever that would mean in real life...)
    Yes, he has killed a lot of people (especially in the more movies, where Pierce Brosnan holds the record with 18 per movie, on average).
    There are also some rather "cold" kills.

    However, aside from the PTS in Casino Royale where "it takes two" and TMWTGG, which features an assassin as the villain, has it ever been targeted, in the sense that killing somebody was Bond's mission?

    I like to (still) see him primarily as an intelligence agent, who is sent into "the field", usually to investigate, and who kills (a lot) because people constantly try to stop him by killing him.

    So he kills in order to do his job. Killing, however, is not his job.

    Am I wrong?

    Bond being an assassin is also a big part of The Living Daylights, and Bond refuses to kill the two targets he was assigned to kill.

    On the other hand, a big part QOS was that Bond was not an assassin and should arrest people rather than kill them.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 585MI6 Agent
    Yeah I forgot about TLD. Embarassing since it's one of my favorites. But as you (both) have said: In both cases Bond decides not to kill, because his own judgement makes him (rightfully) question his original assignment.

    And this is what M and C argue about in SPECTRE: Drones could not / should not replace agents entirely, because although they may be soldiers following orders, the latter still (in the ideal case) follow a moral code.

    So with regard to killing, I agree that
    it's part of his job

    but it's not the only or even the most important one.
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    Typically, in the films it seems to be villains who call him an assassin, as Zao did in the PTS of DAD.

    James Bond is a secret agent with a licence to kill in the line of duty. He is a troubleshooter, provocateur, a spy, an investigator, a saboteur...and an assassin. He is a blunt instrument wielded by Her Majesty's government. Therefore, IMO the term 'assassin' is an oversimplification; like calling a doctor a stethoscope user.
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
  • IanTIanT Posts: 573MI6 Agent
    Was he ever really a spy?

    I can't imagine him having a back office job in an embassy, attending parties and getting foreign diplomats drunk and then getting them into a compromising situation that requires secrets to be passed in return for pictures to be kept hidden.

    I had a chum who was in MI6 once who said that he had a huge stash of whiskey for a certain doorman at a prestigious hotel in another country which will remain nameless but once had an East and a West part.

    I think the term Secret Agent fits Bond better as he gathers information, investigates, and kills if he needs to. An assassin, I would imagine, would just go out and kill people.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    I think we have no reason to believe that he is a member of a medieval, weed-smoking Islamic sect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins), so why do people keep calling him an assassin (this is done repeatedly in SPECTRE, but earlier as well, e.g. in Octopussy).

    Of course the word has another (wider) meaning which arose from the former:

    According to Wikipedia, an assassin is also one who commits a targeted murder or assassination.

    But is this really what Bond does?

    Yes, he has a license to kill (whatever that would mean in real life...)
    Yes, he has killed a lot of people (especially in the movies, where Pierce Brosnan holds the record with 18 per movie, on average).
    There are also some rather "cold" kills.

    However, aside from the PTS in Casino Royale where "it takes two" and TMWTGG, which features an assassin as the villain, has it ever been targeted, in the sense that killing somebody was Bond's mission?

    I like to (still) see him primarily as an intelligence agent, who is sent into "the field", usually to investigate, and who kills (a lot) because people constantly try to stop him by killing him.

    So he kills in order to do his job. Killing, however, is not his job.

    Am I wrong?

    Yes and no...Killing is on occassion his job on specific missions. When it is he is uncomfortable with it and reluctant to do it in cold blood (Dent was attempting to kill him remember ) I see him more as an Intelligence operative in the main.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    ;%
    Typically, in the films it seems to be villains who call him an assassin, as Zao did in the PTS of DAD.

    James Bond is a secret agent with a licence to kill in the line of duty. He is a troubleshooter, provocateur, a spy, an investigator, a saboteur...and an assassin. He is a blunt instrument wielded by Her Majesty's government. Therefore, IMO the term 'assassin' is an oversimplification; like calling a doctor a stethoscope user.


    Spot on. Wish I had seen this before posting my own feeble effort to clarify. ;)
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • UnderwaterBattle007UnderwaterBattle007 Posts: 284MI6 Agent
    edited November 2015
    "James Bond is a secret agent with a licence to kill in the line of duty. He is a troubleshooter, provocateur, a spy, an investigator, a saboteur...and an assassin. He is a blunt instrument wielded by Her Majesty's government. Therefore, IMO the term 'assassin' is an oversimplification; like calling a doctor a stethoscope user".

    I totally agree.
    FRWl, CR, OHMSS, TSWLM, SF, GF, TLD, LTK, TND, FYEO, OP,TWINE, GE, LALD, TB, SPECTRE, DN, YOLT, TMWTGG, QOS, MR, DAF, DAD, AVTAK, NTTD.

    "Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
  • Julius No M.D.Julius No M.D. Posts: 110MI6 Agent
    Bond is an assassin, but a lawful one that doesn't kill in cold blood.
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 1,061MI6 Agent
    Bond is an assassin, but a lawful one that doesn't kill in cold blood.

    Really, has it all ready been so long that people are forgetting CR PTS?

    Besides; why would the requirement for being qualified for 00-section be 2 confirmed kills in the line of duty (extra curricular activities do not apply) if killing in cold blood is not part of the job description?

    Bond in the novels is "sort of a Licensed trouble shooter" who may or may not kill on the job, depending on what is required to achieve the goals set for the mission. As the lone man out on the field, he retains the authority to make that judgement call. This is ofcourse not counting the cases where he is sent out to kill, in cold blood, as in the Living Daylights.
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    Bond is NOT an assasin because his job isn't to simply kill people...
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • 00730073 COPPosts: 1,061MI6 Agent
    Bond is NOT an assasin because his job isn't to simply kill people...

    Quite right, he's a senior civil servant.... 8-)
    "I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
    -Mr Arlington Beech
  • Julius No M.D.Julius No M.D. Posts: 110MI6 Agent
    0073 wrote:
    Besides; why would the requirement for being qualified for 00-section be 2 confirmed kills in the line of duty (extra curricular activities do not apply) if killing in cold blood is not part of the job description?

    In both cases, he didn't fire his gun until the other person tried to kill him.
  • martinimartini Posts: 289MI6 Agent
    An assassin is part of his job, not its definition.

    I prefer assassin to "super spy" at any rate.
    "It is better to be as well dressed as possible to stave off, at least for a very little bit, the total collapse of civilization"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Super Assassin ? :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Julius No M.D.Julius No M.D. Posts: 110MI6 Agent
    Super Assassin ? :D

    Sounds good to me
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Bond is NOT an assasin because his job isn't to simply kill people...

    Bond has indeed been assigned to simply kill people (twice in TLD), so that makes him an assassin.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Julius No M.D.Julius No M.D. Posts: 110MI6 Agent
    He's a problem eliminator.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    He did say in DAF that his company was " Cleaning up the world" ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Bond is NOT an assasin because his job isn't to simply kill people...

    Bond has indeed been assigned to simply kill people (twice in TLD), so that makes him an assassin.

    he has. But like it has been pointed out before, it's merely a part of his job and not his main task!
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    He's Half Gigolo, half hitman ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    it can get hard at times then :))
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Ooh er ! :))
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Bond is NOT an assasin because his job isn't to simply kill people...

    Bond has indeed been assigned to simply kill people (twice in TLD), so that makes him an assassin.

    he has. But like it has been pointed out before, it's merely a part of his job and not his main task!

    That still doesn't mean he's not an assassin. And his main tasks in TMWTGG and TLD are to be an assassin. It's like people who smoke only a few cigarettes a week saying they're not smokers. Just because smoking isn't a main part of their lives doesn't mean they're not smokers.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    bt then again, an assassin is merely a gun-for-hire, whereas Bond is more than that. I'm saying that assassinations are part of his job, but they don't make such a grand part that I'd call him an assassin.
    he's a spy
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    bt then again, an assassin is merely a gun-for-hire, whereas Bond is more than that. I'm saying that assassinations are part of his job, but they don't make such a grand part that I'd call him an assassin.
    he's a spy

    In TMWTGG and TLD, Bond is merely a gun for hire. He's not assigned to do anything else. Just calling him spy isn't accurate either because not all spies are killers. Bond is a 00 agent. That means he's an assassin and a spy, amongst other things.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    there's even a movie that calls him a spy :))
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    there's even a movie that calls him a spy :))

    Though you have to remember that Vivienne Michel co-authored that title with Ian Fleming, as Kingsley Amis pointed out in his classic literary Bond study The James Bond Dossier (1965)! :D
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • HatThrowingHenchmanHatThrowingHenchman Russia With LovePosts: 1,834MI6 Agent
    If we can't trust the co-author, what has the world come to ? -{
    "You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    "Professional assassination is the highest form of public service."
    - Chiun, Master of Sinanju
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
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