Quantum Of Solace vs. SPECTRE

chrisisall

They are very different, but my two favourite Craig films. Let's see how they rate against each other...

1) Action. Nearly equal, but I'll give it to QOS just for the crazy car chase in the PTS.
2) Fights. Although Slate was great, the one with Hinx was EPIC. SP.
3) Cinematography. Both looked gorgeous, but SP was just a bit more sumptuous.
4) Humour. SP without a doubt.
5) Bond Girl. This is mostly a matter of taste, and they were both great, so for me, a tie.
6) Story. One had too little, the other too much. Again, a tie.
7) Villain. Waltz takes it away in SP.
8) Henchman. Hinx in SP.
9) Title song. This may be controversial, but I actually preferred AWTD to TWOTW. QOS.
10) Score. QOS.
11) Dan himself. Always great. Tie.

That's 6 for QOS & 8 for SP. Yeah, about what I expected.
Anyone else?

Julius No M.D.

1) Action.
QOS. This is tough. QOS was more ambitious and had creative directing, but sometimes that resulted in some scenes being unintelligible. SP was more straightforward and had good action scenes throughout, but the set pieces weren't as creative.

2) Fights.
SP. The train fight with Hinx.

3) Cinematography.
SP. QOS had some really beautiful shots, but SP had a lot more locations and atmosphere due to its 40 minute longer running time.

4) Humour.
SP obviously, although I like the little bits of humor QOS snuck in.

5) Bond Girl.
SP. Close battle. Camille was a very good heroine, but Swann is sexy, and her being Mr. White's daughter and a therapist made her character a little more unique

6) Story.
QOS. Yes, QOS was underwritten but had a political edge and a sense of believability to it. And despite being scrapped together, it felt like it had more consistency and direction. It also never had the inanity to go the "Luke, I am your father" route.

7) Villain.
QOS. Greene was believable and Blofeld was a product of poor writing. I think Quantum and the mysteriousness behind it was more interesting than the bog-standard portrayal of SPECTRE.

8) Henchman.
SP. Hinx, of course. Best henchman since Dr. Kauffman. But Elvis, does, however, get the award for the most productive henchman.

9) Title song.
SP. WOTW is a really underrated song with a lot of soul and richness to it. AWTD isn't as bad as alleged, but QOS would have won this category if it didn't reject the "Forever, I Am Yours" theme.

10) Score.
QOS. Spectre did feel like a competent but generic soundtrack, aside from the chilling theme they used in the trailer. QOS did have a score which felt hand-made tailored to each scene.

11) Dan himself.
SP. Both are great performances, it depends on your taste. With SP, I feel like Craig was given more room to change up his character a bit.

While SP won more of these categories than QOS, I enjoyed QOS more overall.

chrisisall

Julius No M.D. wrote:

6) Story.
QOS. Yes, QOS was underwritten but had a political edge and a sense of believability to it. And despite being scrapped together, it felt like it had more consistency and direction. It also never had the inanity to go the "Luke, I am your father" route.

Very valid opinion. Almost valid enough to make me go back & change my vote...

am747

Based on the criteria listed in the OP:

1) Action - SP
2) Fights - SP
3) Cinematography - Tie
4) Humor - SP
5) Bond Girl - SP
6) Story - QoS
7) Villain - SP
8) Henchman - SP
9) Title song - SP
10) Score - QoS
11) Dan - SP

However, a movie is more than a sum of its parts. For e.g. film A could have a lot of hand-to-hand combat, film B could use only guns, while film C could have a mix of both. It is not always about what is the better approach but more about how everything feels and presented than what the total adds up to .... And in the overall feel, SP comes on top as well.

Julius No M.D.

The criteria is stacked in favor of SPECTRE. Had we added criteria like emotional impact and such, QOS would have won.

chrisisall

Julius No M.D. wrote:

The criteria is stacked in favor of SPECTRE. Had we added criteria like emotional impact and such, QOS would have won.

Feel free to re-do it with your added criteria, and I'll re-do mine with them also! -{

Sir Miles

Based of the criteria....

1) Action : QoS
2) Fights : SP - just !
3) Cinematography : SP
4) Humour : SP - but QoS is underrated for this
5) Bond Girl : QoS
6) Story : QoS - because SP is a mess
7) Villain : QoS - Waltz is underused
8) Henchman : SP - QoS doesn't have one
9) Title Song : QoS - by a MILE !
10) Score : QoS
11) Dan : Tie

chrisisall

Sir Miles wrote:

Based of the criteria....

8 to 5 for QOS... you can't like QOS more than I do so it must be you like SP less... )

Sir Miles

chrisisall wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

Based of the criteria....

8 to 5 for QOS... you can't like QOS more than I do so it must be you like SP less... )

QoS is only 7th on your list...it's about 3rd on mine

chrisisall

Sir Miles wrote:

QoS is only 7th on your list...it's about 3rd on mine

All the movies on my list up to & including QOS are SO CLOSE though! :x

Sir Miles

chrisisall wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

QoS is only 7th on your list...it's about 3rd on mine

All the movies on my list up to & including QOS are SO CLOSE though! :x

Yes...but still 7th - although really 9th

chrisisall

Sir Miles wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

QoS is only 7th on your list...it's about 3rd on mine

All the movies on my list up to & including QOS are SO CLOSE though! :x

Yes...but still 7th - although really 9th

Here:
1) TLD/LTK
2) TND
3)SP/DN/GF/GE/FRWL/QOS

Now it's 3rd. )

Gassy Man

Quantum of Solace is more grown up; Spectre is more fun. Spectre wins easily for me because overall it's just a more enjoyable film. While both suffer from weak writing, it shows up in different ways. Quantum of Solace had a muddled script -- especially about Mathis -- that lacked the emotional center of Casino Royale, even though the questions it asks are thoughtful. Spectre had a thin plot and underdeveloped characters that relied more on the familiarity of the goings-on to carry it than anything original. In terms of directing, both are about the same -- what hurts Quantum of Solace most is the editing rather than the directing. But Sam Mendes is no remarkable a talent, either. He has a lot of cliches he recycles, and he was fortunate to have good sense of Bond's film history -- better than Forster's -- that helped him to create something "familiar."

MilleniumForce

1) Action.

SP had what I call the 'Bond amount' action, in that unlike other action films, the action in a Bond film is not coming at you all the time, there are actions scenes but there are also nice scenes that break up the action and allow us to take our breath. QoS just seems like constant action, which just makes the action pieces, as good as they may be, not as memorable or special. SPECTRE

SP 1-0 QoS

2) Fights.

As I said above, the action in SP just feels more special, and I'd take the fight scene between Bond and Hinx any day over anything from QoS. SPECTRE

SP 2-0 QoS

3) Cinematography.

I like a film with bright colours, just makes it easier on the eye and makes it more memorable. But, I must say I loved the crisp and polished cinematography of SP. SPECTRE

SP 3-0 QoS

4) Humour.

Whilst some of it may feel a bit out of place, SP did have some golden moments. SPECTRE

SP 4-0 QoS

5) Bond Girl.

Swann is just a more interesting character than Camille, normally the girl with the relations to the villain is the secondary Bond girl that ends up dead (of course, we had two Bond girls that had connections to the villain). Camille just isn't that interesting. She's got the same motivations as Melina, but Melina got her revenge and then continued to help Bond. Here, Camille just seems like she's only tagging along to get revenge. SPECTRE

SP 5-0 QoS

6) Story.

Ok, so SP had a simple story, but at least I understood what was going on. I still don't really have a good idea of what's going on in QoS. SPECTRE

SP 6-0 QoS

7) Villain.

I kinda liked the sort of character Greene was, he was this wimpy man who clearly couldn't stand by himself, rare in a villain. However, maybe the backstory is a bit poor, but Waltz is just a good villain. He's in the category of villains that aren't the best, but they're still pretty good and memorable. And it does seem SP was just setting up his character, so I expect if Waltz returns he will become an iconic character. SPECTRE

SP 7-0 QoS

8) Henchman.

Elvis or Hinx. No brainer. SPECTRE

SP 8-0 QoS

9) Title song.

Both of them are hated quite a bit, but I like both. But Writing's on the wall just has that classic Bound sound. SPECTRE

SP 9-0 QoS

10) Score.

I don't really remember much of the QoS score, and I know SP had a lot of recycled stuff, but that recycled stuff was still pretty good. SPECTRE

Sp 10-0 QoS

11) Daniel Craig.

Craig was still getting into them ole of Bond in QoS, it almost felt like a step back from CR. In SP however, he seems very confident and his Bond does have his moments in SP where he seems like the cocky Bond I like. SPECTRE]

SP 11-0 QoS

chrisisall

Well put GM. In future, the one of them I enjoy more will be the one I'm watching though. QOS is just so tight with so little wasted time.

Matt S

1) Action. SP, you can tell what's going on, and it's more creative.
2) Fights. SP because of the train fight with Hinx.
3) Cinematography. SP without a doubt.
4) Humour. SP without a doubt.
5) Bond Girl. SP because Madeline and Lucia are both better than Fields. I don't count Camille as a Bond girl.
6) Story. QoS, since it is more focused and more believable.
7) Villain. SP because Waltz.
8) Henchman. SP. Elvis, really?
9) Title song. SP. Writing's on the Wall has a lot of faults as a song, but Another Way to Die is just painful to listen to.
10) Score. QOS without a doubt. Arnold's score adds a lot of depth to the film whilst Newman's score for SP downplays the action.
11) Dan himself. SP, since he finally seems comfortable as Bond. In QoS he seems comfotable as Bond at times, but he doesn't seem to be grieving over Vesper so much like we're supposed to believe.

QoS gets two and SP gets 9. The score is a big one for me, considering how much the score brings down SP for me.

chrisisall

Thanks Matt, another valid & interesting POV. -{

Virgil37

Both are well below CR and SF in terms of storytelling and, well just quality, since filmmaking is nothing but storytelling. That doesn't mean they are bad movies, but both leave a bittersweet aftertaste, as if the filmmakers didn't quite know where to go at some point and relied on action. In QoS that's obvious from the very beginning, whereas in SP it's noticeable later (second half of the movie).

I'd say SP is the better movie, just because it takes more time to develop characters, even though it ultimately fails to realise all its potential.

Agent Purple

filmmaking is nothing but storytelling.

Virgil's view of movies in a nutshell.

chrisisall

Virgil37 wrote:

Both are well below CR and SF in terms of storytelling

Storytelling is sometimes not as important as the STORY. -{

Virgil37

chrisisall wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

Both are well below CR and SF in terms of storytelling

Storytelling is sometimes not as important as the STORY. -{

Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Purvis' and Wade's QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

Virgil37

Agent Purple wrote:

filmmaking is nothing but storytelling.

Virgil's view of movies in a nutshell.

Well...yes, what's yours? just curious.

Agent Purple

Virgil37 wrote:

Agent Purple wrote:

filmmaking is nothing but storytelling.

Virgil's view of movies in a nutshell.

Well...yes, what's yours? just curious.

Honestly, it's hard for me to sum it up like you did, as the universe of movies has a large variety. But, I guess for me it comes down to how individual components of the movie succeed or fail in making a whole larger than the sum of its parts.

And, of course, how much that whole holds my interest or doesn't do so.

Virgil37

Agent Purple wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

Agent Purple wrote:

Virgil's view of movies in a nutshell.

Well...yes, what's yours? just curious.

Honestly, it's hard for me to sum it up like you did, as the universe of movies has a large variety. But, I guess for me it comes down to how individual components of the movie succeed or fail in making a whole larger than the sum of its parts.

And, of course, how much that whole holds my interest or doesn't do so.

That "whole larger than the sum of its parts" you mention is telling a story, that's what holds your interest or not. You might enjoy all the aspects, of course: the special effects, action, performances, music...but they're all there to tell you a compelling story. That's my "nutshell" opinion.

James Suzuki

Spectre is my favourite Craig film.
Sure Quantum of Solace has earnt a lot of respect. And it is not as bad as I once thought, but it lacks the careful directing, love and character that Spectre has.
Spectre, for me, beats it in
action
Fights
Characters
Cinematography
Story
Villain
Henchman
Title song

Though QOS does have the superior score.

Matt S

CR clearly had the best story of all of Craig's Bond films. But I don't think it did a such a good job at telling the story. SP did a much better job at story telling, but it unfortunately did not have a great story to tell.

Sir Miles

Virgil37 wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

Both are well below CR and SF in terms of storytelling

Storytelling is sometimes not as important as the STORY. -{

Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Purvis' and Wade's QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

The STORY for QoS is the product of Paul Haggis...Purvis & Wade managed a rewrite before the writers strike stopped them doing further rewrites....

Virgil37

Sir Miles wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

chrisisall wrote:

Storytelling is sometimes not as important as the STORY. -{

Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Purvis' and Wade's QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

The STORY for QoS is the product of Paul Haggis...Purvis & Wade managed a rewrite before the writers strike stopped them doing further rewrites....

In that case...Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Haggis' QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

Matt S

Virgil37 wrote:

Sir Miles wrote:

Virgil37 wrote:

Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Purvis' and Wade's QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

The STORY for QoS is the product of Paul Haggis...Purvis & Wade managed a rewrite before the writers strike stopped them doing further rewrites....

In that case...Oh yes, the STORY. Well, I'd say Haggis' QoS is no match for Ian Fleming's CR, let me tell you.

They should adapt Fleming's unused stories, like You Only Live Twice or From A View to a Kill. The only thing the respective movies with the same/similar titles have in common with those stories are locations.

chrisisall

I thought the story in QOS was superior to SP, but the storytelling in SP was superior to that of QOS, which is why in the end I like them both about equally. -{

Virgil37

Matt S wrote:

They should adapt Fleming's unused stories, like You Only Live Twice or From A View to a Kill. The only thing the respective movies with the same/similar titles have in common with those stories are locations.

Yes -{