Kincaid/Oberhauser
JMichaelroddy
Posts: 1MI6 Agent
Hi MI6, a new member here. I just came back from finally seeing SPECTRE. I thought it was a great BOND entry. I loved a lot about it, but one small detail has me scratching my head. My first questions this, Where does Kincaid fit in the storyline of Oberhauser? We learned a lot from the death of James' parents in SKYFALL, and his history. Where does this all fit, and was it mentioned or referenced and I miss it?
Comments
But he did have a guardian. Look closely at the certificate of guardianship in Spectre and you can see that he is being looked after Charmain Bond. However, why she has sent him to live with the Oberhausers I don't know. Maybe he was an unruly child...
That implies that James was living at Skyfall at the time of his parents' climbing accident, so why would he then be taken in by a guy who lived in a different country, with whom there was little apparent contact?
Strange!
Partially through necessary updating (book Bond is younger than Fleming, and film Bond's age is a very arguable thing!) and partially through artistic embellishment (book Bond's exploits are exaggerated and glamourised versions of Fleming's, and the films exaggerate and glamourise those to the nth degree) and of course partially through the reboot in 2006, some of the details have become a little unclear and the films make a definite attempt to keep such matters as vague as they can get away with to avoid tying themselves down.
Fleming's father died in WW1 while both of Bond's parents died in a climbing accident. Fleming's mother sent teenage Ian to Kitzbuhel for part of his education, while Bond's aunt Charmain did the same for young James, and both learn about languages, skiing, and girls while there. Both had some, er, trouble concerning women at the British schools they were sent to and both enjoyed their time in Austria under a tutor they admired (Fleming's British Forbes Dennis, Bond's Austrian Hannes Oberhauser). It's easy to overstate the similarities between the real background and the fictional one, but there is a basis for the small scraps we hear in the films.
*Edit...spoon fed to them in the films, I meant ;%
Where exactly in Fleming is the Oberhauser /Blofeld connection ?
Blofeld was born on 28 May 1908 (which is also Fleming's birthday) in Gdingen, Imperial Germany (now Gdynia, Poland); his father Ernst George Blofeld was Polish, and his mother Maria Stavro Michelopoulos was Greek, hence the well-known Greek name Stavro. After the First World War, Blofeld became a Polish national. As a young man, Blofeld was well-versed in the social science disciplines, but also in the natural science and technology disciplines. He first graduated from the University of Warsaw with a degree in Political History and Economics, and then from the Warsaw University of Technology with a degree in Engineering and Radionics. He was then hired by the Polish Ministry of Posts and Telegraphs and appointed in a sensitive communication position, which he used for buying and selling stocks at the Warsaw Stock Exchange.
Correctly foreseeing the coming of World War II, Blofeld made copies of top-secret wires and sold them for cash to Nazi Germany. Before the German invasion of Poland in 1939, he destroyed all records of his existence, then moved first to Sweden, then to Turkey, where he worked for Turkish Radio and began to set up his own private intelligence organisation. During the war, he sold information to both sides. After the defeat of Erwin Rommel, he decided to back the Allied war effort, and was awarded numerous medals by the Allied powers after the war's end. Blofeld then temporarily moved to South America before founding SPECTRE.
Oberhauser /Blofeld, plain idiotic .
Knowing the background as hinted at by Fleming is one thing, but equating it to the way it's been revealed on screen is another. There is a definite vagueness as Barbel says (rather charitably suggesting it's for reasons of not tying the story down), but perhaps the scriptwriters need to re-visit the original works too.
There is an excellent condensed chronology of the character here, linking in a possible acquaintance to Fleming too:
http://members.tripod.com/~bond_mi6/chrono.html
I have to say tne old boy looks good for his age.
I may have been unclear: not just tying a particular story down but the series in general. As Sir Miles says, the films spoon feed the audience with little snippets of Bond's background (his parents' death in a climbing accident, for example, took 30 years to be mentioned in a film) and leave themselves plenty of wiggle-room in case they need it in the future. I don't see any of what was "revealed" in SF as contradictory with what's in SP, for instance (much as I dislike the Oberhauser/Blofeld angle).
As for the writers re-visiting the original works, they've been doing that for years. MGW and P&W have more than once mentioned that they look to Fleming when getting their ideas together and use names, details, etc. Of course, there's always more they could use!
The small MI6 shaped scar there, which foretold his future as the World's
greatest spy.
I suppose it all hangs on the 'timeline' and this modern fashion to 'reboot' things (he said showing his age!!). The classic Bond of the novels will always be a product of the experiences of the second world war and the cold war. I suppose that melding this legacy and turning it into a product acceptable to audiences in the 21st century is quite tricky to do without offending someone.
It's the circumstances surrounding why the young Bond would be staying at Skyfall on his own with only Kincaid as for company and then marrying this up with him being shipped off to his aunt, who in turn sends him off to Austria. But then these are details which Fleming can no longer elaborate on and it's kind of nice to have things hanging really.
I don't remember Bond being in a coma- he did have a comma of black hair though
In the books Bond is NOT related to Blofeld. This is the film writers adding fiction on fiction.
Charmian Bond was his (book) aunt who looked after him when his parents were killed in the climbing accident.
(Bond's life story are in his obituary in the book-You Only Live Twice-set in Japan where he stangles Blofeld dead.)
Hannes Oberhauser (young Bond's ski instructor) is mentioned in the Octopussy book, when
Bond is sent to arrest Major Dexter Smythe who killed H. Oberhauser. (Franz is not in any Fleming book.)
The safe house name Hildebrand is a reference to the short story-The Hildebrand Rarity (a small rare fish)
that was hunted by Milton Krest an obnoxious American marine Biologist.
Bleuville.
Unless I missed some big plot detail
hands at the time !
+1, I must have missed that too as the reference was to 'cuckoos' - ie Oberhauser Snr took a shine to Bond (I'm not surprised given his son's instability
Perhaps a timeline, if we really need to concoct one (I'm not sure we do, as, umm, the Bond films are entertainment and really not supposed to be deconstructed quite so laboriously):
* Bond's parents die while he is at Skyfall
* Kincaid is groundskeeper there and looks after Bond for a short, unspecified period
* Bond's parents' Will is read and Aunt Charmian named Guardian
* Bond lives with A.C. but, after some, ahem, trouble with a maid at Eton, Bond is sent to Fettes(?)
* Possibly during school holidays, Bond is sent to Austria to learn skiing and there meets Oberhauser.
No thanks necessary, all in a day's work
Not a lot of people know that.
Well, he does have a licence to kip....
Yeah, and James Bond was born in the 1920s. How come he's a 40 something in 2015? I guess you'll have to keep enjoying DAD's "cohesiveness"
no but kincaid is the family housekeeper and the oberhauses are after those parental deaths