Problems with time in SPECTRE
MilleniumForce
LondonPosts: 1,214MI6 Agent
I thought about this when I first saw the film, and now I've got some more timeline issues so I'd start this.
First off, all the events of SP apparently take place in around a weeks time, as Bond was told the old building was to be demolished within a week and it's still standing at the end of the film. Now, we also know that there was a couple of days gap between Bond meeting Swann and meeting Mr White, I think it was two or three days, so that means everything else takes place in half a week. Crazy, really, considering in that four/five days Bond spends at least a day and night in Rome, as well as a day and night (possibly more) in Tangier and on the train, and spends at least half a day at Blofeld's lair, and a day at the clinic and the hotel. Let's not forget all the time spent travelling.
Secondly, how long was Bond away? In the time he's been away, a new building has popped up in London, ready to start operating as well, and C has managed to get to his position. Huh? And did Bond spend so long in Mexico City? Sciarra seemed to have only arrived on the same day as he was killed, so why was Bond waiting so long in advance for his arrival?
How has Q been restoring the DB5 so quickly among doing everything else for the rest of Mi6? And how was he even allowed to have an agents personal possession in his lab?
And finally, how did Blofeld get Mi6 ready so fast? He clearly did some work to it and install a massive bullet proof glass, all in the space of a day? Because why would Bond go anywhere but London after escaping, except for changing vehicles?
First off, all the events of SP apparently take place in around a weeks time, as Bond was told the old building was to be demolished within a week and it's still standing at the end of the film. Now, we also know that there was a couple of days gap between Bond meeting Swann and meeting Mr White, I think it was two or three days, so that means everything else takes place in half a week. Crazy, really, considering in that four/five days Bond spends at least a day and night in Rome, as well as a day and night (possibly more) in Tangier and on the train, and spends at least half a day at Blofeld's lair, and a day at the clinic and the hotel. Let's not forget all the time spent travelling.
Secondly, how long was Bond away? In the time he's been away, a new building has popped up in London, ready to start operating as well, and C has managed to get to his position. Huh? And did Bond spend so long in Mexico City? Sciarra seemed to have only arrived on the same day as he was killed, so why was Bond waiting so long in advance for his arrival?
How has Q been restoring the DB5 so quickly among doing everything else for the rest of Mi6? And how was he even allowed to have an agents personal possession in his lab?
And finally, how did Blofeld get Mi6 ready so fast? He clearly did some work to it and install a massive bullet proof glass, all in the space of a day? Because why would Bond go anywhere but London after escaping, except for changing vehicles?
1.LTK 2.AVTAK 3.OP 4.FYEO 5.TND 6.LALD 7.GE 8.GF 9.TSWLM 10.SPECTRE 11.SF 12.MR 13.YOLT 14.TLD 15.CR (06) 16.TMWTGG 17.TB 18.FRWL 19.TWINE 20.OHMSS 21.DAF 22.DAD 23.QoS 24.NSNA 25.DN 26.CR (67)
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz4crpFaW4M
In Spectre's case, I'm assuming the argument could be made that the new building was already under construction, even in the events of Skyfall. We just didn't see it. Perhaps it originally was going to be for Denbigh's outfit but then expanded to include the rest of the service once he wrestled control away from M. This is a fictional version of London, so it doesn't have to conform to the real thing. Of course, that's crap writing, but we're dealing with crap writing already.
Unless there is some onscreen contradiction, this could be many months later. Bond may not have met Sciarra only on that day but had been tracking him for a while and just waiting until the right moment. We don't know exactly how long Bond has been on "vacation," for instance.
The rest of it was just compressed time -- possible, if unlikely. One could also make the argument that for some bizarre reason, the demolition was temporarily halted, but we have no onscreen confirmation of this.
But this is the modern conceit -- rush, rush, rush. If they took their time with the plotting and actually created a meaningful story, and didn't try to tie it all together in some clumsy way, then a lot of these issues would work themselves out. Instead, the writers in trying to be clever end up creating something with too many flaws. It's the result of crap writing. And it isn't even necessary. The story could have been written to take place two years later. The old headquarters being used as the climax was just another way for two dopey writers to try to shoehorn in some cheesy sentimentality in a story that didn't need it.
Only the writers are to blame for this. The buck stops with them.
Whom was I blaming?
We have no idea really how long has passed between SP and Sf
?? At the end of Sf m tells bond there's "lots to be done" whilst handing bond a dossier so it's probable bond fulfilled whatever mission was in the dossier before heading to Mexico. Of course the writers are complicit with the studios in trying to cram in as much action as possible into a film at the cost of quality and accurate storytelling. Young audiences probably prefer the more bang for your buck approach. I prefer a decent mix of action. Witty dialogue and a good story. A lot of films dont hold up to close scrutiny.
Couldn't agree more.
SPECTRE wasn't good and it's got loads of problems but no need to create plot holes for it.
Are we really going to nitpick for things like these? Quite honestly it seems to me like it's a bit ridiculous.
So Q couldn't get other people to help him out with the car? I don't see what the big issue is quite honestly. In the real world, secret agents don't get to drive supercars, but this folks is a fantasy.
Previous films made far less sense when they decided to take Q overseas with his entire crew, yet we accept these films for what they are (and they take up at least half of the existing Bond canon) Why can't we accept this in this movie? Is it because it's new and it doesn't have the nostaglia of your childhood memories behind it?
And has it occurred that the glass room which Blofeld uses perhaps existed in the first place when it was still MI6?
Really, if you where to nitpick films with the same scrutiny you are doing, pretty much all of Hollywood's films would fall apart, for things that aren't even plot holes.
And do we really need someone to tell us, "Oh the building is not getting demolished this week, but the next"? Construction issues get delayed all time and quite honestly distracting the story to such a mundane thing takes us away from what is actually happening.
What were the SF plot holes?
Maybe just give me your best one.
Now GF is just one plot hole after another but that doesn't prevent it from being one of the best Bond films.
Silva's meticulous escape plan, all based on his drive being plugged into the MI6 network. Everything is so perfectly timed for him, as if he knew without a doubt he would escape and knew the exact moment he would escape.
1. He planned to get caught because he wanted to confront M face to face.
2. He planned his escape well in advance, including planting bombs, having henchmen planted around the city to help in his escape, etc.
3. He knew Q would open the drive because mi6 had to know what had been compromised.
4. He knew his tech skills were superior to Q's and that his virus would breach the mi6 firewall. Since he was an mi6 agent and specialized in computers this isn't unreasonable.
The hearing involving M had probably been scheduled weeks in advance, so he had plenty of time to implement his plans which, had probably been planned months or even years in advance.
I know you don't like Craig or his films but you're going to have to do better. This doesn't even approach the level of the televising of the missile captures in YOLT. Where did those cameras come from, anyway?
They went to a deserted part of Scotland 1. in order to stop Silva from continuing to wreak havoc in London and continuing to kill civilians; and 2. get Silva to a place where his advanced technical skills would be useless.
I think this was pretty obvious to anybody who actually saw the movie
The cameras in YOLT are not a plot hole since have nothing to do with the plot. Silva's plans are far too specific to make sense. He's relying too much on the actions of other people.
Bond drawing Silva to Skyfall without proper preparation is another big problem.
These problems with SF are commonly brought up. It's not just from me.
I know they're commonly brought up, but they're wrong. They're not plot holes. You can argue that Bond engages in reckless decision making by going to Scotland but Bond has been engaging in reckless decision making since he ignored Quarrel's advice and went to Crab Key (and getting poor old Quarrel killed). It's part of his character, which makes it the opposite of a plot hole.
And these "plot holes" are brought up by so-called Bond fans who try to slag SF even though it ranks #1 among Bond films on both Rotten Tomatoes and, I think, IMDB.
That's a strange kind of "fan."
And explain again how Blofeld had a view of the spacecrafts in space?
And I won't even go into how it is physically impossible for a space craft in orbit to "catch up" with another space craft in the same orbit.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I agree that the camera of the spacecrafts in space doesn't make sense, but that doesn't have a bearing on the plot. And if spacecrafts can't meet up, how do spacecrafts rendezvous with the ISS?
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The term orbital velocity ring a bell?
To be in a certain orbit you have to be going a certain speed. If you're "catching up" with another object in the same orbit you must be going faster than that object, but if you're going faster that will put you in another, higher, orbit. Eventually, if you go fast enough you reach escape velocity (about 25,000 mph) and you're free of the Earth's gravity.
They come up from below, not from behind as in YOLT.
Please man, we're going to Mars pretty soon, let's not make the simple stuff difficult.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
See post 23
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
1) that's not really a point to say how some online databases have ranked a movie. RT ranks almost every movie I check on very low (the only high-ranked ones are these bigger-than-life blockbusters by Nolan or Cameron e.g.)
2) but you are right, I too think when prople "slag" something Bond related, it's hard to say that they're fans
So the way it happened isn't accurate, but with a different spacecraft design one spacecraft could have swallowed another. Story-wise, the concept isn't impossible. It was just executed inaccurately.