I'm trying hard not to side on this. I think the tone was wrong, but not offensive in itself. If it is its the mods who will ajudicate. It's close to the line in my view, but thankfully not my decision to make. I think language/attitude like that does not add value to a site like this. I guess I'm that quintessential liberal who may disagree with a point, but defend the right to make it. I have really tried to respond honestly to your question and truly hope that I have. If I felt that a line had been crossed I would not hesitate to wade in in support. Enough said? I hope so.
I can see your PoV. I have been posting on various forums on subjects ranging from sports, automobiles, economics, religion, politics, government policies and investments, etc. to now Bond films, and have probably seen many different type of posters and have learned to not get too worked up by a post. On the other hand, someone who is new to this world may get too carried away by what someone posts
Usually, there are two extreme types of posters. Ones that come to the online forum as if it is a formal place where they have to appear their best. And ones who come there to get away from the real world and post their mind w/o worrying about how it would sound to others. And there are others who can strike a balance .... At the end of the day, it is the opinion that counts
What matters to me is if a person is trolling deliberately and unnecessarily to incite negative reactions. And there are various ways to troll. Unfortunately, it is hard to tell that in a post or two, esp. if you don't know the poster (his pattern) well enough
RJJB is not a troll, he just has a genuine loathing for Moore and his Bond films. He's been posting about it here for years. He doesn't attack people for liking Moore like some people here do for liking certain other Bonds.
There are some forums that are just forums and other forums that are communities. This place is a community where people know and respect each other. It's not like there are thousands of people posting here every day and we don't know who each other are.
I'm trying hard not to side on this. I think the tone was wrong, but not offensive in itself. If it is its the mods who will ajudicate. It's close to the line in my view, but thankfully not my decision to make. I think language/attitude like that does not add value to a site like this. I guess I'm that quintessential liberal who may disagree with a point, but defend the right to make it. I have really tried to respond honestly to your question and truly hope that I have. If I felt that a line had been crossed I would not hesitate to wade in in support. Enough said? I hope so.
I can see your PoV. I have been posting on various forums on subjects ranging from sports, automobiles, economics, religion, politics, government policies and investments, etc. to now Bond films, and have probably seen many different type of posters and have learned to not get too worked up by a post. On the other hand, someone who is new to this world may get too carried away by what someone posts
Usually, there are two extreme types of posters. Ones that come to the online forum as if it is a formal place where they have to appear their best. And ones who come there to get away from the real world and post their mind w/o worrying about how it would sound to others. And there are others who can strike a balance .... At the end of the day, it is the opinion that counts
What matters to me is if a person is trolling deliberately and unnecessarily to incite negative reactions. And there are various ways to troll. Unfortunately, it is hard to tell that in a post or two, esp. if you don't know the poster (his pattern) well enough
RJJB is not a troll, he just has a genuine loathing for Moore and his Bond films. He's been posting about it here for years. He doesn't attack people for liking Moore like some people here do for liking certain other Bonds.
There are some forums that are just forums and other forums that are communities. This place is a community where people know and respect each other. It's not like there are thousands of people posting here every day and we don't know who each other are.
Good to know that RJJB is not a troll. So that makes his style of giving his opinion unique and he did not attack anyone either (unless attacking Moore = attacking a poster). Nothing to get too worked up about in my book .... I guess his opinion can be addressed objectively
Identifying any Moore film as iconic is laughable. The Moore films added nothing to the entire series. They were derivative slapstick that cheapened the entire series. Pure crap.
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
At least it's " Pure" and not "diluted" I think some Bond fans
are in touch with the "Dark Side" while the rest of us, try not
to be too confrontational. ...... Well most of the time. )
I'm more shocked at Zaphod99 being a Liberal ! )
Liberal is a wide spectrum I am more of your Guardian reading ,left of centre urban metro sexual wax chested Chapagne socialist design obsessed cliché type of chap.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
So long as you're happy )
I keep thinking I'm a liberal chap, until it comes to law and order. Then a strange Metamorphosis
Occurs, and I turn in to the extreme right wing of the Conservative party.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
For me that has to be GoldenEye. It's the most iconic Bond movie of newer times.
The obvious ones of the distant past certainly are Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me.
GoldenEye practically has it all. From the Austin Martin to the Casino, from the main villain to the No 2 villain, a proper romantic Bond girl, a nasty Bond girl, action galore, romance, a proper villains lair.
Car chase, tank chase, plane action etc.
GoldenEye is humorous while being dark in places as well, action packed and well paced from start to finish.
I wouldn't know anybody who didn't like it or even view it as a blueprint for a proper Bond movie.
Even the score, yes the score, is iconic, it is instantly recognisable, unique and has some truly great moments. Of course there are the metallic parts in it that could be called nasty noise )
GoldenEye also perfectly combines a modern theme with the good old "cold war" themes.
It introduces a new Moneypenny and M for the new generations.
Whenever I introduce someone to the Bond franchise I give them GoldenEye.
Only recently I watched it with a work colleague (27 years old) that has only seen the Craig movies.
He was really, really surprised how good it was and now he has seen all of the Bond movies.
His favourites by the way are OHMSS, GE, FYEO, TLD, LTK, CR and SP.
Ok, that was off-topic...
GF, TSWLM and GE are the iconic ones in the franchise.
Identifying any Moore film as iconic is laughable. The Moore films added nothing to the entire series. They were derivative slapstick that cheapened the entire series. Pure crap.
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
besides DAF, they're all great 8-)
"You see Mr.Bond, you can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you.Time to face destiny" - "Time to face gravity"
It is hard for me to look beyond GF as the most iconic Bond film. It set the template for what a Bond film is all about and later films borrowed a lot from it.
Once again to prove I'm right and everyone else is wrong.
( only joking about that, by the way )
Anyone making fun of the Bond films always mentions ......
Hollowed out Volcano, firing rockets, stroking a cat ?
I think that's fairly Iconic, to have worked its way into our
Culture, so that even people born long after the film, still
Understand it.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
According to Merriam-Webster, the definition of iconic is, "widely known and acknowledged especially for distinctive excellence."
By that definition, GF is the most iconic Bond movie, hands down. You ask the average person what they associate with James Bond and they'll likely say the DB5, Oddjob and his bowler, a female character named Pussy Galore, the laser beam scene, robbing Fort Knox, etc.
The only aspect of TSWLM that is widely known is Jaws.
I think a lot of posters are substituting "the Bond movie I like the best" for most iconic. I like CR the most, but I don't think it's more iconic than GF.
Identifying any Moore film as iconic is laughable. The Moore films added nothing to the entire series. They were derivative slapstick that cheapened the entire series. Pure crap.
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
According to Merriam-Webster, the definition of iconic is, "widely known and acknowledged especially for distinctive excellence."
By that definition, GF is the most iconic Bond movie, hands down. You ask the average person what they associate with James Bond and they'll likely say the DB5, Oddjob and his bowler, a female character named Pussy Galore, the laser beam scene, robbing Fort Knox, etc.
The only aspect of TSWLM that is widely known is Jaws.
I think a lot of posters are substituting "the Bond movie I like the best" for most iconic. I like CR the most, but I don't think it's more iconic than GF.
I think TSWLM - without being perfect - can add a couple more things. The PTS was a very big thing at the time and set the scene where every Bond film HAD to have something like that. Also, TSWLM was important as truly establishing Bond as a blockbuster experience with Cubby doing what he promised and trying to put every dollar on screen.
"Respect the films?" Please. I respect people, not objects. Movies are manufactured products for which I paid money to see. I have earned the right to call them anything I wish. I would never berate anyone, especially someone on an online forum, for his opinions. If the word "crap" offended you, please accept my apologies.
Identifying any Moore film as iconic is laughable. The Moore films added nothing to the entire series. They were derivative slapstick that cheapened the entire series. Pure crap.
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
I have always felt that the only movies that are deserving of iconic status are the first four movies and OHMSS. Right or wrong, they provide the ultimate blueprint for the series. I think the producers ultimately try to replicate the success of those movies in their subsequent efforts. That's where some of the problem lies. We have seen the "bigger is better" attitude spiral out if control into excessive hokum. And by that I definitely name YOLT as the first step into the downward spiral. So much logic and reality is discarded for the sake of spectacle, that the movie ultimately collapses into a silly adventure unworthy of its predecessors. But I can still watch it. I enjoy the two Dalton movies, take a pass on Brosnan's efforts, and the Craig movies are too new to be given any kind of iconic designation.
In MY world, when people think of Bond they just naturally think "I'm more of a problem eliminator" or "It's a farewell to arms" but, this being NOT my world they actually think "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die." Goldfinger is the only real answer here.
Identifying any Moore film as iconic is laughable. The Moore films added nothing to the entire series. They were derivative slapstick that cheapened the entire series. Pure crap.
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
I have always felt that the only movies that are deserving of iconic status are the first four movies and OHMSS. Right or wrong, they provide the ultimate blueprint for the series. I think the producers ultimately try to replicate the success of those movies in their subsequent efforts. That's where some of the problem lies. We have seen the "bigger is better" attitude spiral out if control into excessive hokum. And by that I definitely name YOLT as the first step into the downward spiral. So much logic and reality is discarded for the sake of spectacle, that the movie ultimately collapses into a silly adventure unworthy of its predecessors. But I can still watch it. I enjoy the two Dalton movies, take a pass on Brosnan's efforts, and the Craig movies are too new to be given any kind of iconic designation.
I can see your PoV .... For me, many of the first 10 films are iconic including the ones that you mentioned, YOLT, LALD (for different reasons) and TSWLM .... However, if you look at the original post, there are some criteria mentioned. The films that best fit those criteria are GF and TSWLM. IMO, b/w the two GF takes the title
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
I have always felt that the only movies that are deserving of iconic status are the first four movies and OHMSS. Right or wrong, they provide the ultimate blueprint for the series. I think the producers ultimately try to replicate the success of those movies in their subsequent efforts. That's where some of the problem lies. We have seen the "bigger is better" attitude spiral out if control into excessive hokum. And by that I definitely name YOLT as the first step into the downward spiral. So much logic and reality is discarded for the sake of spectacle, that the movie ultimately collapses into a silly adventure unworthy of its predecessors. But I can still watch it. I enjoy the two Dalton movies, take a pass on Brosnan's efforts, and the Craig movies are too new to be given any kind of iconic designation.
I can see your PoV .... For me, many of the first 10 films are iconic including the ones that you mentioned, YOLT, LALD (for different reasons) and TSWLM .... However, if you look at the original post, there are some criteria mentioned. The films that best fit those criteria are GF and TSWLM. IMO, b/w the two GF takes the title
Those aren't stated as criteria, those are stated as reasons why GF and TSWLM are iconic Bond films. YOLT doesn't have all the same things the other two films have, but I think it's also a strong contender.
- an over the top plot: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK,
- a Barry soundtrack: DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, OP, AVTAK, TLD
- A Ken Adam set: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, DAF, TSWLM, MR
- An iconic villain with great lines, twisted plans and preferably a different look: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK, CR, Skyfall
- a strong henchman: FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK, GE, Spectre
- a strong Bond girl: DN, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, MR, FYEO, LTK, TND, CR,
- An Aston Martin or Lotus Esprit: GF, TB, OHMSS, TSWLM, FYEO, CR, Skyfall, Spectre
- A grand finale with lots of minions: GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TSWLM, MR,
Based on my feelings and attributes that are required, the most common 'iconic' films would be Goldfinger, Thunderball, You only live twice, The spy who loved me and Moonraker. They tick most of the boxes.
Comments
RJJB is not a troll, he just has a genuine loathing for Moore and his Bond films. He's been posting about it here for years. He doesn't attack people for liking Moore like some people here do for liking certain other Bonds.
There are some forums that are just forums and other forums that are communities. This place is a community where people know and respect each other. It's not like there are thousands of people posting here every day and we don't know who each other are.
Good to know that RJJB is not a troll. So that makes his style of giving his opinion unique and he did not attack anyone either (unless attacking Moore = attacking a poster). Nothing to get too worked up about in my book .... I guess his opinion can be addressed objectively
Interesting. What about non-Moore films such as DAF, TND, DAD, SP, etc.?
Liberal is a wide spectrum
I keep thinking I'm a liberal chap, until it comes to law and order. Then a strange Metamorphosis
Occurs, and I turn in to the extreme right wing of the Conservative party.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
The obvious ones of the distant past certainly are Goldfinger and The Spy Who Loved Me.
GoldenEye practically has it all. From the Austin Martin to the Casino, from the main villain to the No 2 villain, a proper romantic Bond girl, a nasty Bond girl, action galore, romance, a proper villains lair.
Car chase, tank chase, plane action etc.
GoldenEye is humorous while being dark in places as well, action packed and well paced from start to finish.
I wouldn't know anybody who didn't like it or even view it as a blueprint for a proper Bond movie.
Even the score, yes the score, is iconic, it is instantly recognisable, unique and has some truly great moments. Of course there are the metallic parts in it that could be called nasty noise
GoldenEye also perfectly combines a modern theme with the good old "cold war" themes.
It introduces a new Moneypenny and M for the new generations.
Whenever I introduce someone to the Bond franchise I give them GoldenEye.
Only recently I watched it with a work colleague (27 years old) that has only seen the Craig movies.
He was really, really surprised how good it was and now he has seen all of the Bond movies.
His favourites by the way are OHMSS, GE, FYEO, TLD, LTK, CR and SP.
Ok, that was off-topic...
GF, TSWLM and GE are the iconic ones in the franchise.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
And I think TWINE is a lot better than both, but I see you rank that one as lowly number 12 (it can't be 9 when you rank 11 films ahead of it).
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Overall, 90s is one of the weakest decades though
besides DAF, they're all great 8-)
"Threw them away years ago" :007)
( only joking about that, by the way )
Anyone making fun of the Bond films always mentions ......
Hollowed out Volcano, firing rockets, stroking a cat ?
I think that's fairly Iconic, to have worked its way into our
Culture, so that even people born long after the film, still
Understand it.
By that definition, GF is the most iconic Bond movie, hands down. You ask the average person what they associate with James Bond and they'll likely say the DB5, Oddjob and his bowler, a female character named Pussy Galore, the laser beam scene, robbing Fort Knox, etc.
The only aspect of TSWLM that is widely known is Jaws.
I think a lot of posters are substituting "the Bond movie I like the best" for most iconic. I like CR the most, but I don't think it's more iconic than GF.
It is a rhetorical question
since I'm a fan of interaction, I answered it anyway
I think TSWLM - without being perfect - can add a couple more things. The PTS was a very big thing at the time and set the scene where every Bond film HAD to have something like that. Also, TSWLM was important as truly establishing Bond as a blockbuster experience with Cubby doing what he promised and trying to put every dollar on screen.
You are writing as if you make sense 8-)
I have always felt that the only movies that are deserving of iconic status are the first four movies and OHMSS. Right or wrong, they provide the ultimate blueprint for the series. I think the producers ultimately try to replicate the success of those movies in their subsequent efforts. That's where some of the problem lies. We have seen the "bigger is better" attitude spiral out if control into excessive hokum. And by that I definitely name YOLT as the first step into the downward spiral. So much logic and reality is discarded for the sake of spectacle, that the movie ultimately collapses into a silly adventure unworthy of its predecessors. But I can still watch it. I enjoy the two Dalton movies, take a pass on Brosnan's efforts, and the Craig movies are too new to be given any kind of iconic designation.
Goldfinger is the only real answer here.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I can see your PoV .... For me, many of the first 10 films are iconic including the ones that you mentioned, YOLT, LALD (for different reasons) and TSWLM .... However, if you look at the original post, there are some criteria mentioned. The films that best fit those criteria are GF and TSWLM. IMO, b/w the two GF takes the title
Those aren't stated as criteria, those are stated as reasons why GF and TSWLM are iconic Bond films. YOLT doesn't have all the same things the other two films have, but I think it's also a strong contender.
- an over the top plot: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK,
- a Barry soundtrack: DN, FRWL, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TMWTGG, MR, OP, AVTAK, TLD
- A Ken Adam set: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, DAF, TSWLM, MR
- An iconic villain with great lines, twisted plans and preferably a different look: DN, GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK, CR, Skyfall
- a strong henchman: FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, AVTAK, GE, Spectre
- a strong Bond girl: DN, GF, OHMSS, TSWLM, MR, FYEO, LTK, TND, CR,
- An Aston Martin or Lotus Esprit: GF, TB, OHMSS, TSWLM, FYEO, CR, Skyfall, Spectre
- A grand finale with lots of minions: GF, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TSWLM, MR,
Based on my feelings and attributes that are required, the most common 'iconic' films would be Goldfinger, Thunderball, You only live twice, The spy who loved me and Moonraker. They tick most of the boxes.
1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore