"Cake? Pig? Borsh? What is this?" I concur
Napoleon Plural
LondonPosts: 10,485MI6 Agent
The Living Daylights came around on telly again last weekend.
In some ways it has aged well, though Timothy Dalton is still playing to the gallery again. Maybe it's the director's fault. Perhaps Tim did a good take, only to be told 'Tim! There's a little old lady with cataracts in Row W, she can't make out your expression, can you give it another go?'
Dalton even fluffs his one-liner that closes the pts: 'Better make that two...'
Still he looks good, esp in the tux in the Bratislava sequence.
That said, the film has a lot to absorb and I just can't get on with the pipeline to the West, chiefly because even today I cannot grasp what this is about. Yes, I have heard of such a pipeline. Never seen it though, neither in real life nor on telly nor in the papers. So it is all rather lost on me, though it seems an ingenious wheeze. It's like the conflict diamonds in DAD, I mean I've never heard of them so it goes over my head a bit.
It is all a bit confusing this film and I think a better director could have made it a bit lighter and more digestible. I mean, even when Bond is on sniper duty for years I thought, right, this is the new grumpy Bond - fun! But of course, Bond is tense because he is being asked to kill in cold blood. Just one line could make that clear. "You are used to this kind of thing, I take it?" "What, cold blooded murder? Yep, that's what I'm paid for."
But I don't think Dalton is a cinematic actor really, not sure if he's had any lead cinematic role up to that point. It's a bit like Lazenby, he's landed himself a tough debut gig.
But Dalton's Bond lacks any of the boyish narcissism that other Bonds have, so he is a bit stodgy. When Bond muses as to why Yogi chose him to be the sniper, Saunders replies 'He's under the impression you're the best.' Bond might then make a joke, a mock-boast, an expression as if to say 'Oh yeah, that makes sense' and we would remember the line more. It's significant; Yogi chose Bond cos he knew he'd deliberately miss Karla. But it took me many viewings to figure that out and even when you know, it doesn't really hit home.
Also, it's the bit when he pretends to be Yogi's friend to trick Karla. I mean, that's a mean trick, or is it? Cos John Barry's soppy music plays on, oblivious to Bond's deceit. When Dalton confides to Saunders that's he playing her along, to find out what he can, is he just saying that to impress Saunders and keep him on board, so he doesn't get taken for a man falling down on the job for a woman, like before? Or is that what he is really doing? It takes a more skilled cinematic actor than Dalton to convey that.
Oh, and helping out Bin Laden isn't a great move, either. It's like Roger Moore coming to the aid of Idi Amin in Live and Let Die.
In some ways it has aged well, though Timothy Dalton is still playing to the gallery again. Maybe it's the director's fault. Perhaps Tim did a good take, only to be told 'Tim! There's a little old lady with cataracts in Row W, she can't make out your expression, can you give it another go?'
Dalton even fluffs his one-liner that closes the pts: 'Better make that two...'
Still he looks good, esp in the tux in the Bratislava sequence.
That said, the film has a lot to absorb and I just can't get on with the pipeline to the West, chiefly because even today I cannot grasp what this is about. Yes, I have heard of such a pipeline. Never seen it though, neither in real life nor on telly nor in the papers. So it is all rather lost on me, though it seems an ingenious wheeze. It's like the conflict diamonds in DAD, I mean I've never heard of them so it goes over my head a bit.
It is all a bit confusing this film and I think a better director could have made it a bit lighter and more digestible. I mean, even when Bond is on sniper duty for years I thought, right, this is the new grumpy Bond - fun! But of course, Bond is tense because he is being asked to kill in cold blood. Just one line could make that clear. "You are used to this kind of thing, I take it?" "What, cold blooded murder? Yep, that's what I'm paid for."
But I don't think Dalton is a cinematic actor really, not sure if he's had any lead cinematic role up to that point. It's a bit like Lazenby, he's landed himself a tough debut gig.
But Dalton's Bond lacks any of the boyish narcissism that other Bonds have, so he is a bit stodgy. When Bond muses as to why Yogi chose him to be the sniper, Saunders replies 'He's under the impression you're the best.' Bond might then make a joke, a mock-boast, an expression as if to say 'Oh yeah, that makes sense' and we would remember the line more. It's significant; Yogi chose Bond cos he knew he'd deliberately miss Karla. But it took me many viewings to figure that out and even when you know, it doesn't really hit home.
Also, it's the bit when he pretends to be Yogi's friend to trick Karla. I mean, that's a mean trick, or is it? Cos John Barry's soppy music plays on, oblivious to Bond's deceit. When Dalton confides to Saunders that's he playing her along, to find out what he can, is he just saying that to impress Saunders and keep him on board, so he doesn't get taken for a man falling down on the job for a woman, like before? Or is that what he is really doing? It takes a more skilled cinematic actor than Dalton to convey that.
Oh, and helping out Bin Laden isn't a great move, either. It's like Roger Moore coming to the aid of Idi Amin in Live and Let Die.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Comments
Kill her ? As for the Mujahideen, as they were fighting the Russians, they
We're the good guys ( Then) even Rambo fought with them in Rambo 3
Roger Moore 1927-2017
So...in that interchange with Saunders, I found the tone of their relationship very much like the one in the story with "Captain Sender," curt and contentious. Bond was naturally being inquisitive about Yorgi choosing him for the job, though in character, Bond shouldn't really care what kind of impression he needs to give Saunders, but the impression he gives the audience, which counts more, is that he shows Saunders he's not affected by his whining. Also, in playing Fleming's Bond, Dalton should not have been concerned about conveying a boyish brattiness to the character; an adolescent mindset is the last thing Fleming's Bond could have. But I get it, it boils down to preference and it seems most audiences shared your sentiment on how cinematic Bond should be at that time. It's important to note though, that to provide a contrast to the Moore era, Dalton, backed up by the producers, decided to depart from the traditional, movie Bond characterization and to go back to the original Fleming material for his interpretation.
After discovering the sniper rifle and blanks in Kara's cello case, he knew something was amis and Koskov suddenly became a person of interest (why would the KGB provide "their sniper" with blanks, only to arrest Kara afterwards?) and the impromptu ruse to be Koskov's close friend, made sense. Then, Bond telling Saunders that he's playing Kara, was the truth, though at the same time he was developing feelings for her...nothing strange about that esp. knowing that she's an unwitting and innocent pawn being motivated by false assumptions. Besides, he apologizes to Kara about that on the plane to Afghanistan.
As far as gas pipelines, that was something ordinary viewers did not really need to know about before hand and I think the movie presented that concept clearly enough; on the other hand you mentioned the conflict diamonds in DAD, and for that scenario maybe more explanation was needed for audiences though it was not an entirely unknown phenomenon at the time in international news and later there would be the Leonardo DiCaprio movie about that, Blood Diamond.
About Dalton's acting style, I can agree that his stage training made him more dramatic than others and in some scenes he's over the top, but IMO overall it works, because after all, these are Bond movies (not forgetting to mention that TLD follows AVTAK) and not the high-water mark for acting (c'mon, even Craig for all his seriousness and acting ability seems a bit ludicrous in the whole scheme of a Bond production).
I'm sure he meant for Bond to kill Kara. Why do you think otherwise? Remember his look of surprise when she called him on the phone? Remember when Bond explained he was sent to kill her?
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
I agree with most of this, and I could not have explained it better. I never had trouble understanding anything in TLD.
I don't think John Barry's music was oblivious to Bond's deceit to Kara. When we first see Kara, it's portraying Kara and how Bond is convincing Kara to feel. The lyrics are also from Kara's point of view, if that explains the intent of the song more.
I agree. Georgi certainly expected for Bond to kill Kara, since he knows Bond is a loyal agent and an excellent shot. He underestimated Bond.
Napoleon Plural, I think you're thinking too much into things rather than taking things as they seem. Don't let Georgi deceive you!
And let us not forget that Moore was finally retired! The PTS of TLD is one of my favourites: here was a Bond who was back in the game, and fully engaged :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I agree with this, even though this is an interesting thread.
As an aside, I'm writing a little something on the plot of TLD for my blog.
Thunderbird Too!
Excellent write up and this essentially sums it up for me. Yes TLD is flawed, and many Bond films are - bar a few. I also agree with your point about Craig.
To further argue against NP's comments: TLD does have a complicated plot, so does OP - but for me it makes these films interesting to watch again and again. Some of the more simple films like GF - while objectively are superior - can be a boring watch because the plot is so simple.
I enjoy the cold-war cool down plots of the 80/90s including OP, FYEO, TLD and GE. They're interesting because they're still on-point, but have the realisation that the cold war is over.
I for one completely disagree with Dalton's delivery of "better make that two", I think he nails it.
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I love the way Dalton says all his lines, including "salt corrosion".
"Are you calling me a horses arse?"
" I don't listen to hip hop!"
DAMN! Now I want to watch my #! Bond movie again, but it's too late!!!
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Takes Arnie to finish the bloke off in True Lies...
Dunno, if Bond is a ladies man, why pick him to kill Kara, he's more likely to play the gallant card and let her off, surely? In fact if Bond is so hot, he's the last guy you want involved in a fake defection, he's bound to smell a rat. Personally, and yeah this may well be just me, but I didn't get the whole thing of Bond looking at the gun and seeing they are blanks, cos I have no idea what blanks look like.
Nercros or Nero or whoever looks to dim to improvise anything, the way he does in the country house assault.
M and the gang seem really thick to just swallow what some defector is telling them on first meeting, but then again in those days a briefing only took 1 minute so you can see why it is underwritten. There could be a way of making it more plausible, like it was part of a wave of animosity between the West and Russia that the villains are now capitalising on. Or have M looking ill and jaded in the film, and taking his eye off the ball, so Bond has to step in and use his initiative.
Like FYEO it seems written for a younger Bond, so the romantic aspect might be stronger.
That opening shot of Dalton is quite possibly the best of all the Bonds, including Connery.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
It seems you were right!
Our first look at Connery, at the Baccarat table in DN, is a tough one to top, IMHO. But I agree that the Dalton opener is brilliant.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Dalton's is more the "man of action" introduction as Bond in the TLD PTS - getting into the thick of things with no messing around on stylised cigarette advert type stuff. It works as a different kind of Bond introduction very well, although the introduction of Bond in DN is equally iconic of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urengoy%E2%80%93Pomary%E2%80%93Uzhgorod_pipeline
Agreed. To build on what Loeffs mentioned, it's too bad that they attempted to make some sort of reboot after Moore, but went lazy with the workmanlike direction and screenplay. Richard Maibaum was the topic of a recent thread and unfortunately, he didn't have the opportunity to make the script his own, not to count that he was likely past his creative prime. FYEO would have been a great debut for Dalton and the first thing that comes to mind is a fantastic pairing with Carole Bouquet.
I thought Necros looked more than competent and came off as pretty dangerous, however, they shouldn't have including him in the pool scene in Tangiers which just took away from that sinister edge.
On Bond as the womanizer, up to the point when he was scanning for the KGB sniper no one had any idea what it would be and if being a womanizer (which he was known to be) was considered a problem, Bond would have been ejected from the service long before that.
About what you said on M and the service automatically believing Koskov, I agree. Had it been in a story by Frederick Forsythe or John LeCarre, their spy masters seemed to have a suspicious, intuitive sixth sense about things like that and they would have immediately been cautious with Koskov.
It's all about Dalton & Barry. Even the magic carpet sequence wouldn't have changed it for me.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I agree that some of the direction wasn't amazing - but on the whole, I think the script is excellent and watching last night, found myself completely absorbed in the intricacies of the plot.
Like Octopussy it re-plays well because there is quite a bit of detail in everything that happens. The cello elements, the defection mess, the way Bond has to figure who's playing who and trust intuition is brilliant. Add that to the romance between Bond/Kara and you've got a great blend.
My only real issue with the film? Bond doesn't shoot Whittaker somewhere other than at his stupid shield gun - shoot him in the chest!
IMO, Dalton has a flawless performance that's full of detail and passion - he looks great too. LTK, which is only 2 years after, he appears to be really out of shape...what a difference.
"Better make that two."
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Haha I probably watched it about 3 months ago. My girlfriend recalled how good looking he is in TLD, but not in LTK. Have to agree!
"Better make that two."