When was the last time the PTS was completely unrelated to the rest of the plot of a Bond movie?
Right now I can only remember GF and FYEO.
Those PTSs were very much related to the plots of the films overall. It just wasn't so obvious. But it's how they were related that made them even more amazing.
When was the last time the PTS was completely unrelated to the rest of the plot of a Bond movie?
Right now I can only remember GF and FYEO.
Those PTSs were very much related to the plots of the films overall. It just wasn't so obvious. But it's how they were related that made them even more amazing.
Remind me, how were those two PTS' related to the plot?
I haven't seen GF and FYEO in a while.
When was the last time the PTS was completely unrelated to the rest of the plot of a Bond movie?
Right now I can only remember GF and FYEO.
Those PTSs were very much related to the plots of the films overall. It just wasn't so obvious. But it's how they were related that made them even more amazing.
Remind me, how were those two PTS' related to the plot?
I haven't seen GF and FYEO in a while.
GF relates to the rest of the film by someone planting a time bomb, someone taking off an outfit to reveal another outfit, and someone being killed by electrocution.
FYEO relates to the main plot with a theme of revenge. Bond spends the PTS getting revenge, while Melina is out to get revenge in the rest of the film.
I believe it was Barbel who shared a link to an article that says how no pre-title sequence is unrelated to the rest of the film. But I can't find that link now.
Maibaum’s first draft of the PTS (based on Fleming’s first chapter) had Bond meeting Leiter at Miami airport and recounting the story which we then see in flashback. The tryst with the dancer, in whose eyes 007 sees the approaching capungo, the fall into the bath and “Shocking. Positively shocking.” are here.
Dehn’s rewrite included Ramirez’ heroin factory, Bond’s approach by water (though with an inflatable dead dog on his head- Maibaum and Hamilton hated this, hence the bird eventually used.) and the black waterproof suit having a white dinner jacket underneath.
Those PTSs were very much related to the plots of the films overall. It just wasn't so obvious. But it's how they were related that made them even more amazing.
GF relates to the rest of the film by someone planting a time bomb, someone taking off an outfit to reveal another outfit, and someone being killed by electrocution.
FYEO relates to the main plot with a theme of revenge. Bond spends the PTS getting revenge, while Melina is out to get revenge in the rest of the film.
I believe it was Barbel who shared a link to an article that says how no pre-title sequence is unrelated to the rest of the film. But I can't find that link now.
the thematic link between Bond avenging Tracy, and Melina avenging her parents makes sense, I believe it
but aside from foreshadowing Oddjob's death, I'm not convinced a ticking timebomb or "someone taking off an outfit to reveal another outfit" is much of a genuine connection ... these types of events are just too common in the Bomdfilms
how does Octopussy's precredit sequence relate to the rest of the film? seems like a completely independent story to me
or Thunderball ... sure there's a SPECTRE agent, but there's a SPECTRE agent in almost every Bondfilm Connery made, how does it connect specifically with the SPECTRE agents we see in Thunderball, moreso than FRWL or YOLT? is the dead man referenced in the dialog of the meeting sequence perhaps?
possible topic for a new thread: which precredit sequences relate best to the film that follows? I give bonus points for creativity: the Spy Who Loved Me initiates a plotline separate but parallel to Stromberg's evil scheme to destroy the world, one that is actually more interesting
Thunderball ... sure there's a SPECTRE agent, but there's a SPECTRE agent in almost every Bondfilm Connery made, how does it connect specifically with the SPECTRE agents we see in Thunderball, moreso than FRWL or YOLT? is the dead man referenced in the dialog of the meeting sequence perhaps?
Yes, he is.
Number One: I regret to inform you all of the death of SPECTRE Number Six. Colonel Jacques Bouvar [pick your spelling, but that's another subject] was killed by an unknown assassin. His services will be greatly missed.
Later, Patricia refers to Bond's bruise from "a poker, in the hands of a widow... he didn't like me at all."
(Yes, I know the line is said earlier but I like this pic... ;% )
how does Octopussy's precredit sequence relate to the rest of the film?
Taking a leaf from Matt S's book, I'd say it foreshadows the climax. Both involve Bond in disguise, a bomb being hidden then uncovered at a well-attended event, a military commander, and our man relying on a beautiful woman for success (okay, that last one isn't unique!).
Here's an article I read a few years ago that has an explanation of how those seemingly unrelated pre-title-sequences relate to the rest of the films they are from:
There are a few threads along the lines of "Best PTS" but none discussing them in the way we have been doing above. Perhaps it might be an idea to do as caractacus suggests above and start a new thread?
I like Risico. There is a lot of mystery as to what it could be. I also like the unused Fleming title "Death Leaves an Echo." I also like "A Death To Spies," a callback to SMERSH, even though the enemy will be Spectre. The title for the new book, "Forever And a Day" would've been an amazing title though.
The IFP books over the last few years have got the Fleming feel for titles just right I think: Carte Blanche is pretty much perfect.
Otherwise Devil may Care and Solo have just the right feel.
They've slipped a bit with Horowitz though: slightly more towards the pulpy end of the spectrum, and Forever and A Day is a just a bit John Gardner Bond-by-numbers.
In Gardner's defence, several of the titles of his books weren't his choices but the publishers. He's on record as being unhappy with their selections especially "No Deals Mr Bond" but under the terms of his contract they had final say.
Gardner: I think, without exception, every title I've put up has been mulled over and eventually turned down. They all think they can do better. Putnam (U.S. publisher) always said, the title needs work. NO DEALS, MR. BOND is an atrocious title, but it was the best of what was a very bad bunch. Actually, about half the titles are mine, about four are Peter's (Peter Janson-Smith, IFP) . NEVER SEND FLOWERS is Putnam's. I'm not crazy about it. The title thing becomes an absolute nightmare.
I write novels for a living and can attest to the absolute power big publishers have to retitle books. I imagine that an author hired to pen a James Bond novel has no autonomy whatsoever when it comes to making those kinds of choices.
One of the things that has always impressed me about Fleming was how insanely great he was with titles. There's nary a dud among them.
That's true. Much of the power James Bond holds over his followers such as us derives from Ian Fleming's choice of titles. His successors (both on film and in print) have sometimes hit the mark, sometimes not.
As I plough through the BBC MI5 spy series "Spooks" whilst I recover from serious spinal surgery, there are a couple of spy phrases that are used quite often, "Kill Order" and "The Kill Chain". Incidentally virtually all of the story for "Skyfall" can be found in the first 6 seasons, including retreating to an old dilapidated house and making homemade bombs. Just making an observation.
That's true. Much of the power James Bond holds over his followers such as us derives from Ian Fleming's choice of titles. His successors (both on film and in print) have sometimes hit the mark, sometimes not.
To me, the only decent non-Fleming titles are these:
- Colonel Sun (Though would now feel too dated for a film today IMO)
- Scorpius
- Never Send Flowers
- Zero Minus Ten
- The Facts Of Death
- Devil May Care
- Carte Blanche
- Trigger Mortis (Best one)
- Forever And A Day (Second best)
And a mention for "Cold", because what is stands for "Children Of The Last Days" would be a good title, but "Cold" isn't.
The rest of the titles range from average to terrible.
IMO, John Gardener overall could not do titles. Ironically, he dissed the title "Never Send Flowers", which I believe is one of his only decent ones.
As I plough through the BBC MI5 spy series "Spooks" whilst I recover from serious spinal surgery, there are a couple of spy phrases that are used quite often, "Kill Order" and "The Kill Chain". Incidentally virtually all of the story for "Skyfall" can be found in the first 6 seasons, including retreating to an old dilapidated house and making homemade bombs. Just making an observation.
kill chain is the title of the latest James Bond graphic novel coming out next month! Also slightly of topic but you all might be interested, my daughter works for company that supplies heavy lifting equipment and she took the Order yesterday for some equipment for Bond 25. ( she text me straight after ) ) so things are happening folks -{
Comments
Right now I can only remember GF and FYEO.
Those PTSs were very much related to the plots of the films overall. It just wasn't so obvious. But it's how they were related that made them even more amazing.
Remind me, how were those two PTS' related to the plot?
I haven't seen GF and FYEO in a while.
Octopussy, I think.
The Living Daylights?
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
The "Smiert Spionam" stuff plays out later in the film.
GF relates to the rest of the film by someone planting a time bomb, someone taking off an outfit to reveal another outfit, and someone being killed by electrocution.
FYEO relates to the main plot with a theme of revenge. Bond spends the PTS getting revenge, while Melina is out to get revenge in the rest of the film.
I believe it was Barbel who shared a link to an article that says how no pre-title sequence is unrelated to the rest of the film. But I can't find that link now.
Yes, they are linked thematically with the main plot, so they're not completely unrelated.
Couldn't you argue that th Goldfinger pre title connections are purely circumstantial?
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
In Bond's world they are a coincidence. To Richard Maibaum and Paul Dehn they are not.
Maibaum’s first draft of the PTS (based on Fleming’s first chapter) had Bond meeting Leiter at Miami airport and recounting the story which we then see in flashback. The tryst with the dancer, in whose eyes 007 sees the approaching capungo, the fall into the bath and “Shocking. Positively shocking.” are here.
Dehn’s rewrite included Ramirez’ heroin factory, Bond’s approach by water (though with an inflatable dead dog on his head- Maibaum and Hamilton hated this, hence the bird eventually used.) and the black waterproof suit having a white dinner jacket underneath.
but aside from foreshadowing Oddjob's death, I'm not convinced a ticking timebomb or "someone taking off an outfit to reveal another outfit" is much of a genuine connection ... these types of events are just too common in the Bomdfilms
how does Octopussy's precredit sequence relate to the rest of the film? seems like a completely independent story to me
or Thunderball ... sure there's a SPECTRE agent, but there's a SPECTRE agent in almost every Bondfilm Connery made, how does it connect specifically with the SPECTRE agents we see in Thunderball, moreso than FRWL or YOLT? is the dead man referenced in the dialog of the meeting sequence perhaps?
possible topic for a new thread: which precredit sequences relate best to the film that follows? I give bonus points for creativity: the Spy Who Loved Me initiates a plotline separate but parallel to Stromberg's evil scheme to destroy the world, one that is actually more interesting
Yes, he is.
Number One: I regret to inform you all of the death of SPECTRE Number Six. Colonel Jacques Bouvar [pick your spelling, but that's another subject] was killed by an unknown assassin. His services will be greatly missed.
Later, Patricia refers to Bond's bruise from "a poker, in the hands of a widow... he didn't like me at all."
(Yes, I know the line is said earlier but I like this pic... ;% )
Taking a leaf from Matt S's book, I'd say it foreshadows the climax. Both involve Bond in disguise, a bomb being hidden then uncovered at a well-attended event, a military commander, and our man relying on a beautiful woman for success (okay, that last one isn't unique!).
http://commanderbond.net/5430/the-james-bond-da-vinci-code.html
A Whisper Of Love, A Whisper Of Hate..............The Nature Of Evil...............Secret Agenda.........Death Is So Permanent.
Fortunately it won't be me who has to name it.
"Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
Otherwise Devil may Care and Solo have just the right feel.
They've slipped a bit with Horowitz though: slightly more towards the pulpy end of the spectrum, and Forever and A Day is a just a bit John Gardner Bond-by-numbers.
Gardner: I think, without exception, every title I've put up has been mulled over and eventually turned down. They all think they can do better. Putnam (U.S. publisher) always said, the title needs work. NO DEALS, MR. BOND is an atrocious title, but it was the best of what was a very bad bunch. Actually, about half the titles are mine, about four are Peter's (Peter Janson-Smith, IFP) . NEVER SEND FLOWERS is Putnam's. I'm not crazy about it. The title thing becomes an absolute nightmare.
One of the things that has always impressed me about Fleming was how insanely great he was with titles. There's nary a dud among them.
"Do you expect me to talk? "No Mister Bond I expect you to die"
To me, the only decent non-Fleming titles are these:
- Colonel Sun (Though would now feel too dated for a film today IMO)
- Scorpius
- Never Send Flowers
- Zero Minus Ten
- The Facts Of Death
- Devil May Care
- Carte Blanche
- Trigger Mortis (Best one)
- Forever And A Day (Second best)
And a mention for "Cold", because what is stands for "Children Of The Last Days" would be a good title, but "Cold" isn't.
The rest of the titles range from average to terrible.
IMO, John Gardener overall could not do titles. Ironically, he dissed the title "Never Send Flowers", which I believe is one of his only decent ones.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Has Craig put a bit of weight on ?