Hope you Gents across the Pond are all ok!

1235713

Comments

  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    To a certain point we must put our trust to the experts,,who are working 24/7 for years on those challenges and are elected and chosen by us.

    Like the 'expert' bankers that caused a worldwide economic crash ? Like the 'experts' we didn't elect that run the EU ? Like the 'experts' that predicted terrible things for the UK if they voted Brexit - that have now changed their mind ? :))
    I'm afraid they are just like the rest of us - whistling in the dark :#
    YNWA 97
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    notice that I'm not saying which way or even if I voted.

    I'm seeing way too many good friends falling out over something beyond either's control.

    what'll be will be, uncertain times for sure but there's little any of us can do. ride the storm out i guess, s'all ya can do.
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
    minigeff wrote:
    notice that I'm not saying which way or even if I voted.

    I'm seeing way too many good friends falling out over something beyond either's control.

    what'll be will be, uncertain times for sure but there's little any of us can do. ride the storm out i guess, s'all ya can do.

    It is all very silly...I've no idea why people would fall out over something beyond their control...
    YNWA 97
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Agreed -{ we are where we are, and have to work with what we've got.
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 38,078Chief of Staff
    minigeff wrote:
    notice that I'm not saying which way or even if I voted.

    I'm seeing way too many good friends falling out over something beyond either's control.

    {[] Buy you a drink, mg?
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:

    Like the 'expert' bankers that caused a worldwide economic crash ? Like the 'experts' we didn't elect that run the EU ? Like the 'experts' that predicted terrible thing for the UK if they voted Brexit - that have now changed their mind ? :))
    I'm afraid they are just like the rest of us - whistling in the dark :#

    I don't think that I've elected any banker
    The EU execs are elected by the EU parliament, which was elected by us
    I don't see people changing their predictions and it's too early to see how this turns out

    And your pic of the EU is too onesided. There are still many people that are good for us - that demonisation is a cheap populist thing and I'd rather see experts running the Union instead yourself or BoJo :v
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
    The European Parliament is the only part of the EU that is elected by a democratic vote and it is also, incidentally, the part of the EU with the least power despite the reforms of the Single European Act. Says it all really.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    stag wrote:
    Well a wave of anti democratic feeling doesn't alter the path of democracy after that same democracy has spoken. I find it more than a little disturbing when people begin to say that referendums shouldn't be held. That path leads to a very dark place. The EU supposedly champions democracy but apparently only under it's own terms? As I said earlier "You are free to vote just so long as you vote for me!"

    Amid all the speculation posted here I still have to see one post which explains why the electorate voted as they did. I can only conclude that it is because no one actually got out there & asked. Until you understand that you will not understand anything else. The EU needs to learn some very serious lessons from what the British people have told them if they want their union to survive - I guess they won't though because they are both unable & unwilling to listen. Sticking fingers in their ears, closing their eyes & singing LA LA LA at the top of their voices may work for them but it does nothing to halt the rise of some very unsavory attitudes which are riding on the backs of peoples discontent with this EU project continent wide.

    That the British have placed a limpet mine below the waterline on SS Europa is no accident, it is not because people misunderstood how the EU (& British politicians - because it was also a vote against the British elitists as much as those who stalk the corridors of Brussels) works because they do. In the simple terms of those same people the message was clear, it was concise & above all it was truthful in the terms of how the EU was impacting upon their lives. We all know the politicians & faux intellectuals look down upon the people, metaphorically patting them on the head while - in a most condescending of tones telling them that 'we know best'. You can only do that for so long - Thursday proved that & the greatest lesson here is that you ignore your electorate at your peril....................
    It is only my opinion Stag and my own experiences during this referendum campaign, but to my eyes the vote was always going to be to leave, for years discontent has been growing with the EU, a lot of people voted the current government on the strength of an EU referendum, it was the job of the remain campaign to offer valied reasons to stay. This was not done with any level of success, the remain was run on a we have to stay because otherwise we are all doomed for eternity, the leave campaign offered a positive version of what if? And there is a better way.
    The referendum offered the people of this country a very rare opportunity to change the UKs future course and for the majority a brighter future, even at the cost of some economic uncertainty. That opportunity was taken as opposed to more of the same and a perceived decline of living standards in our country.
    I also experienced a confusion over what the EU represents. Why does a socialist Labour party want us to remain in a capitalist EU? Because surely the EU is a capitalist project is it not? These views made obvious the huge disconnect with not only Westminster and the people but also the city of London and the rest of the country.
    The result was inevitable. A vote to leave was a vote used against the EU, politicians and the perceived ruling elite along with a sense of drowning in an unwanted European superstate.
    These are the same issues becoming apparent in other EU member states.
    In my opinion, if the EU is a truly democratic institution secure in its popularity why not hold a Europe wide referendum? Ask the people? Put this to bed once and for all.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    On a seperate note, I'm really pleased we've been able to discuss these issues in an amicable manner, healthy debate and argument is good for the heart and sole, thank you Higgins for offering up a pro EU stance and arguing your points. I was also hoping Number24 might chime in but he's disappeared?? Long may healthy debate continue -{
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    The European Parliament is the only part of the EU that is elected by a democratic vote and it is also, incidentally, the part of the EU with the least power despite the reforms of the Single European Act. Says it all really.

    Not correct.
    All EU institutions are either installed by the EU parliament or the national governments which are also elected by the people.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    stag wrote:
    minigeff wrote:
    notice that I'm not saying which way or even if I voted.

    I'm seeing way too many good friends falling out over something beyond either's control.

    what'll be will be, uncertain times for sure but there's little any of us can do. ride the storm out i guess, s'all ya can do.

    No one has any need to know which way you voted. It was your absolute right to vote for whomever you chose.

    What we need as a nation right now is to set aside all the crap (most of it being drummed into us by 'rolling' news who are always short of something to fill airtime) & work together to make this work.
    Here here -{ (though I'm quite unhappy with you for Number24! You do realise with the tides over there he may end up in the Morecambe cockle beds!)
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • minigeffminigeff EnglandPosts: 7,884MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    minigeff wrote:
    notice that I'm not saying which way or even if I voted.

    I'm seeing way too many good friends falling out over something beyond either's control.

    {[] Buy you a drink, mg?

    shmooove talkin barsted, ill have a baby-sham and lambrini cheers
    'Force feeding AJB humour and banter since 2009'
    Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk
    www.cancerresearchuk.org
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited June 2016
    @ Stag

    Though I wanted to avoid discussions with you, let me elaborate a bit more why I am against Referendums.

    Populists: you can see a modus operandi all over Europe how Populists work.
    In Europe, we all are doing relatively well - if you disagree - ask someone in Thailand or Africa.

    The world became very complicated in the last 3 decades and many people's worlds and values have gotten shattered. Many people lost a lot during the 2008 crisis which was not the EU's fault.

    many People are unhappy and bitter and many politicians have become greedy, corrupt and lifted from the Average Joe.

    Now enter the populists:
    They spread hate against the existing systems, against the mainstream and public media, against foreigners, against experts of all kind, demonise the EU, you pick your enemy.

    The society becomes polarized, angry hateful and insecure and they need someone to lead them out of he dark - and voila pick the populists because the establishment has failed.

    It's always the same story - the same strategy, the same hate. I lived in Austria 25 years ago, where Haider was the first one to operate like that.

    In a climate of fear, hate and demonisation, the best argument does not win! The one who screams loudest, wins!

    Look how people regret how they voted some days ago , they feel to be misinformed ( from both sides btw) and how long this election period divided and slowed down the country.
    And in a couple of months, the UK may elect another government. That means more months of silly campainging, more lies, more hate, more fear and more populism.

    In my opinion this kind of theater every 4 or 5 years is enough, we don't need more of that in the middle of the election period. And the amount of misleading campaining and the number of people falling for those lies makes me convinced that additional Referendums and not doing anything better or democracy.

    Of course imo.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    ... the leave campaign offered a positive version of what if? ... A vote to leave was a vote used against the EU, politicians and the perceived ruling elite along with a sense of drowning in an unwanted European superstate.

    I'd love to think that was true, and that the general population's motives were as considered as yours Chriscoop -{ , but sadly I think a part of the Leave vote was driven by immigration fears. The last thing we need is a move to the far right here or across Europe.

    No, what we need is another England goal or two to redress the balance against Iceland in the final minutes... :#
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    On a seperate note, I'm really pleased we've been able to discuss these issues in an amicable manner, healthy debate and argument is good for the heart and sole, thank you Higgins for offering up a pro EU stance and arguing your points. I was also hoping Number24 might chime in but he's disappeared?? Long may healthy debate continue -{

    Also seconded (or is that thirded?)
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Not totally amicable, I keeping a list. You know who you are :v :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    Please Stag, you said that was our secret ! ;%
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    ... the leave campaign offered a positive version of what if? ... A vote to leave was a vote used against the EU, politicians and the perceived ruling elite along with a sense of drowning in an unwanted European superstate.

    I'd love to think that was true, and that the general population's motives were as considered as yours Chriscoop -{ , but sadly I think a part of the Leave vote was driven by immigration fears. The last thing we need is a move to the far right here or across Europe.

    No, what we need is another England goal or two to redress the balance against Iceland in the final minutes... :#
    Immigration has played a big part it's true, but I'm my conversations more as a we don't have enough space, housing, jobs, school places, hospital beds way than a we hate immigrants coming here way. Obviously there is an element of that vile thought process but thankfully a small element.
    I would like to think the majority of brits are too moderate to allow extreme right politics to rise up, certainly less chance of it after brexit. And IMHO anyone displaying any form of racism or should be severely dealt with.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :))
    I do have that effect. ;)
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • Charmed & DangerousCharmed & Dangerous Posts: 7,358MI6 Agent
    :))
    I do have that effect. ;)


    :)) :)) :)) Splash 'n dash man, eh? ( said in my best Terry Thomas voice) :D
    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered. One sympathises."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    :)) Good old Terry ( He was my avatar for ages ) -{
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    edited June 2016
    S&P rated the Uk down from AAA to AA with a negative outlook.

    Predictable that it would happen. more to come.

    The more I think of it, the more I am convinced that noone will pull article 50 and the UK stay with far less privileges.
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    S&P rated the Uk down from AAA to AA

    Predictable that it would happen. more to come.

    Yeah...means bugger all though...

    Many countries have a far worse rating...
    YNWA 97
  • HigginsHiggins GermanyPosts: 16,619MI6 Agent
    Yep, you are ahead of Greece :)) :)) :))
    President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.

    Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
    Higgins wrote:
    Yep, you are ahead of Greece :)) :)) :))

    And we still have their marbles :D
    YNWA 97
  • Sir MilesSir Miles The Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,924Chief of Staff
    stag wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    Yep, you are ahead of Greece :)) :)) :))

    And we still have their marbles :D

    Ah marbles! I've still got mine (the ones I used to play with as a kid - I don't think they were from Greece though)

    Lucky you - lost mine years ago :))
    YNWA 97
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    stag wrote:
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    Yep, you are ahead of Greece :)) :)) :))

    And we still have their marbles :D

    Ah marbles! I've still got mine (the ones I used to play with as a kid - I don't think they were from Greece though)
    Have you counted them recently stag? Your recent obsession with automatic weapons suggests you've lost one or two?
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
    Sir Miles wrote:
    Higgins wrote:
    Yep, you are ahead of Greece :)) :)) :))

    And we still have their marbles :D

    Give the Marbles back. I'm sick of their whining about them. As my Law lecturer said we have enough marble in the UK already.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    They could always sell the Marbles, or just give them to Germany to help pay off
    Their debt. :D
    "I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    They could always sell the Marbles, or just give them to Germany to help pay off
    Their debt. :D
    I don't think they are worth much, they're very old and really quite broken.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
Sign In or Register to comment.