Turkey's membership was a big debate here.
For many years, Turkey where offered a "Priviledged Partnership" which could end in a membership.
I know that the conservatives defended that staus with their teeth, the left wing wanted to give them a full membership.
Merkel never wanted to give more than the "priviledged partnership" but the last 2 years make it impossible for Turkey to have the slightest chance for a membership.
I can only reply, that Merkel would have never signed such a letter in the last 2 years and nobody here really supports the membership anymore.
Won't happen - trust me
Turkey is virtually at war with us since the parliament signed the Armenia Resolution and called the massacres then "genocide".
Obviously I don't know for a fact BUT it was stated during the TV debate that EU countries had signed this letter of intent...Cameron signed it...the Remain camp didn't deny that this letter had been signed...
I'm very interested in UK politics but know nothing about European politics.
Although I agree, I love the BBC news, I find it very impartial, as Labour complain
About them as much as the Conservatives.
For a laugh, I sometimes watch Fox news )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Obviously I don't know for a fact BUT it was stated during the TV debate that EU countries had signed this letter of intent...Cameron signed it...the Remain camp didn't deny that this letter had been signed...
Maybe Cameron wanted to leave the door open for a potential ally "in arms" incase the Brexit would happen? ) ) )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
When the EU falls like dominoes, with country after country calling for their own in/out referendum, where will you emigrate to when Germany throws in the towel?
When the EU falls like dominoes, with country after country calling for their own in/out referendum, where will you emigrate to when Germany throws in the towel?
Much love,
Minigeff :x
Dearest Mingeff,
I know that I have always a place in your bed :x
At least your wife told me so ) ) )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The EU DID only come into existence in 1993 - prior to this, there was no (or very little) political input to the club of member countries.
So when you judge that peace has been the biggest benefit of the EU experiment, what about the 1/4 million deaths on the borders of the EU when Yugoslavia broke up? Don't they count as they weren't in the club?
What about when Russia walked into Ukraine and seized Crimea - although not a full member, Ukraine does receive funding from the EU, so what about that?
Now there's a call for a European army, which would do what exactly? What is NATO for?
Cheap bratwurst and sauerkraut are the only positives demonstrable so far it seems, or are there 'side benefits'?
So it's stated that the EU protects the weak helps the poor, provides a level playing field, but only if you are a member, as the Commander points out yugoslavia, I can tell you that was a full scale sh*T storm, sponsored by Russia in part, and largely ignored by the EU if not the UN.
The EU is a powerless entity to prevent war, as Higgins points out it remains a non military organisation, how then will it deal with the ever growing impertinence of Putin? As the Ukraine shows us it can't. Or won't for fear of Putin turning off the gas supply.
Of course with possibility of a European army, that issue should be solved, especially as the EU will certainly look to further it's members and therefore it's borders, eventually becoming the United States of eurasia.
When the EU falls like dominoes, with country after country calling for their own in/out referendum, where will you emigrate to when Germany throws in the towel?
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited June 2016
Dear Higgins,
Throughout our history here in the UK, we have fought, bled and died for our democracy and a right to vote for decisions that will affect us. Why should we give that democracy up and have a central EU government that we have not elected in and cannot elect out, and can apply laws that we have no say over democratically?
The EU was a good idea when it was just those 6-8 countries involved. But it has expanded beyond our originally agreement and parameters therin. Too many cooks etc.
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
When the EU falls like dominoes, with country after country calling for their own in/out referendum, where will you emigrate to when Germany throws in the towel?
Much love,
Minigeff :x
Dearest Mingeff,
I know that I have always a place in your bed :x
At least your wife told me so ) ) )
I wouldn't worry MG. She no doubt meant rose bed. Horsesh!t is good for them.
Throughout our history here in the UK, we have fought, bled and died for our democracy and a right to vote for decisions that will affect us. Why should we give that democracy up and have a central EU government that we have not elected in and cannot elect out, and can apply laws that we have no say over democratically?
{[] {[] {[]
Doubtless there are many, many European members here, Higgins included, who's ancestors also fought in the same way. I think that it mainly boils down to land mass though - having done a road trip through France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy last year, I was struck how there are no divisions between nations on the continent. France and Germany and Belgium in particular are indistinguishable in places and our Belgian host in Braunlauf where we stayed on our first night of our honeymoon was very informative in telling us over breakfast how children in the area grew up learning French, German Belgian and English, which is the language of togetherness in the region.
The inescapable fact that Great Britain is an island nation probably has more bearing on the mindset than most would like to believe, but it's got nothing to do with xenophobia or hatred of fellow Europeans in particular.
I love a lot of aspects of Europe, having travelled through it last year. I wouldn't want to visit the north again though, as it's a boring drive and we did find quite a lot of hostility towards us in St Vith for some reason - the pizzeria we dined in on our final night in Belgium was like The Slaughtered Lamb from American Werewolf in London!!!
However, we both fell in love with Tuscany and the whole of the areas in Northern Italy we visited. Switzerland was spectacular too, if reserved in nature. There's a lot to commend the Swiss for too and Italy for one could learn a lot about tunnel building and maintenance from their independent neighbours!!
In the end though, it's the constant fiddling of the laws that a lot of Brits find infuriating. There is a definite 'them and us' mentality in the UK, probably because of the mass of water between us and Belgium. People living in Dover are almost as close to Brussels as they are to Westminster, but they don't feel that close and that's the issue. We've never taken a shine to our Euro MPs, 90+% of the population don't know who their Euro MP is even!
DEAR HIGGINS My mum is having a lesbian fling with my fiancé’s mother — what should I do?
I caught them romping in the kitchen and now they plan to move in together
Sorry re-read the thread - I thought it was questions for YOU not EU
So it's stated that the EU protects the weak helps the poor, provides a level playing field, but only if you are a member, as the Commander points out yugoslavia, I can tell you that was a full scale sh*T storm, sponsored by Russia in part, and largely ignored by the EU if not the UN.
Well, I think that we all have to accept that if we don't want an EU army (Which I really don't want - NATO is enough) the EU has it's limits to prevent conflicts that end up in war.
But the UK where free to solve the problem on a national basis - it's always easy to blame others.
The EU is a powerless entity to prevent war, as Higgins points out it remains a non military organisation, how then will it deal with the ever growing impertinence of Putin? As the Ukraine shows us it can't. Or won't for fear of Putin turning off the gas supply.
The EU is not powerless - our arms are our market our checkbooks and our influence.
To punish Russia for what they've done in the Ukraine, there are EU sanctions still active which hit the russian economy more than what they are willing to admit.
EU execs spent countless days to calm down the conflict and did everything in their influence to make clear that this was inacceptable and has consequences.
But at the end, nobody really wanted to start WWIII over that - not the EU, not the USA, not the NATO and not the UK and your options are limited if you don't want to pull the "war card"
I don't see this as an "Only EU failure".
Countries like Greece and Italy did everything that those sanctions would not happen and Germany is losing an ally on that field as the UK where the strongest supporters for those sanctions alongside with the Germans.
As a side note, I am sure that Putin popped some Champagne bottles after the Brexit results.
Dividing the EU states is one of his major goals and it seems that he's been pretty successfully with that. It's pretty well known that Putin financially supports the french Anti-EU Populists Front National.
Saying goes that the other EU-critical right-wing Populists receive similar help from Russia.
Of course with possibility of a European army, that issue should be solved, especially as the EU will certainly look to further it's members and therefore it's borders, eventually becoming the United States of eurasia.
I really don't think that we need an European Army.
And think of it: The UK want to limit the EU to the marketplace alone as per the Brexit camp.
So, who's gonna pay for that if everybody just wants the benefit from free trade and no payments?
On one hand the UK don't want to pay and on the other hand demand enormous spendings - that does not go together well.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Doubtless there are many, many European members here, Higgins included, who's ancestors also fought in the same way. I think that it mainly boils down to land mass though - having done a road trip through France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy last year, I was struck how there are no divisions between nations on the continent. France and Germany and Belgium in particular are indistinguishable in places and our Belgian host in Braunlauf where we stayed on our first night of our honeymoon was very informative in telling us over breakfast how children in the area grew up learning French, German Belgian and English, which is the language of togetherness in the region.
The inescapable fact that Great Britain is an island nation probably has more bearing on the mindset than most would like to believe, but it's got nothing to do with xenophobia or hatred of fellow Europeans in particular.
I love a lot of aspects of Europe, having travelled through it last year. I wouldn't want to visit the north again though, as it's a boring drive and we did find quite a lot of hostility towards us in St Vith for some reason - the pizzeria we dined in on our final night in Belgium was like The Slaughtered Lamb from American Werewolf in London!!!
However, we both fell in love with Tuscany and the whole of the areas in Northern Italy we visited. Switzerland was spectacular too, if reserved in nature. There's a lot to commend the Swiss for too and Italy for one could learn a lot about tunnel building and maintenance from their independent neighbours!!
In the end though, it's the constant fiddling of the laws that a lot of Brits find infuriating. There is a definite 'them and us' mentality in the UK, probably because of the mass of water between us and Belgium. People living in Dover are almost as close to Brussels as they are to Westminster, but they don't feel that close and that's the issue. We've never taken a shine to our Euro MPs, 90+% of the population don't know who their Euro MP is even!
Dear Commander,
I'll only comment on your last sentence as I'll address to the initial question in a seperate reply.
You rightly complain that you and most other people don't know their EU MP.
This is a valid point after asking how much you've done yourself to get him/her known.
Have you every contacted his/her webpage or visited one of the debates?
Ever watched a discussion of the EU parliament?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The EU is a powerless entity to prevent war, as Higgins points out it remains a non military organisation, how then will it deal with the ever growing impertinence of Putin? As the Ukraine shows us it can't. Or won't for fear of Putin turning off the gas supply.
You raise a good point - for me a prime example that operating in a large unit is better than doing that individually.
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
In Brussels, there are experts, that concentrate and focus on the gas supply for the entire EU and not for individual countries.
Putin can easily play one small country against another one and we all know how much he can do this.
It will be more difficult if we stand together as a Union instead of going our individual national way.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Throughout our history here in the UK, we have fought, bled and died for our democracy and a right to vote for decisions that will affect us. Why should we give that democracy up and have a central EU government that we have not elected in and cannot elect out, and can apply laws that we have no say over democratically?
The EU was a good idea when it was just those 6-8 countries involved. But it has expanded beyond our originally agreement and parameters therin. Too many cooks etc.
Dear Idiot,
well, at first "we" have elected our governments and heads of states, which together with the EU parliament (which "we" have also voted for) decide over how the Europens Institutions are set up.
Remember what I've said about 28 countries with individual interests etc. and it would be horrible and put the EU always on hold, if individual countries would have the chance to "vote out".
The bigger the orgnaisation you are in, the less saying has the individual vote - that's the nature of the game and I am sure that a similar argument can be made from the voters who voted "Stay".
They must carry a decision which they did not really vote for.
I agree with you that the expansion of the EU was too fast and too far.
On the other hand, what do you think would have happended to countries like Bulgaria or Romania, if they would not have been integrated in the EU?
That brings me back to my first post: POPULISTS!
Populists can easily criticize the lack of democracy or the borderless fatness of the EU, but what are the real alternatives?
Is there a better way to goven a Union of 28 different countries than it presently is?
Is the national way the better one in the face of the international challenges that we are presently facing?
Now, my moronic friend - it's very easy down in your neck of the woods where brothers and sisters make their children.
But if you leave your little cave, you'll see that democracy means to carry desicions which have been chosen by the majority of people after well informed campainings.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
Does Scotland own gas/oil...?...that has been debated since oil was first discovered in the UK...it's all paid into the UKCS...Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it )
The bigger the orgnaisation you are in, the less saying has the individual vote - that's the nature of the game and I am sure that a similar argument can be made from the voters who voted "Stay".
They must carry a decision which they did not really vote for.
Which happens at practically every democratic election...more people voted against the Conservatives in the last election - yet they 'won' comfortably...unfair ? That's the nature of the beast...
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
Does Scotland own gas/oil...?...that has been debated since oil was first discovered in the UK...it's all paid into the UKCS...Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it )
I'll not put my nose into those internal differences of opinions 8-)
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
Does Scotland own gas/oil...?...that has been debated since oil was first discovered in the UK...it's all paid into the UKCS...Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it )
I'll not put my nose into those internal differences of opinions 8-)
Which is probably wise...Scotland wanting to stay in the EU could hold back the triggering of Article 50 even more !
In all honesty, I think that the odds are higher that the UK will NOT pull article 50 than they will do.
I'd like to know about phone calls from UK Industry leaders to rush with that decision and into which direction the decision should go.
At the end - employment numbers count and saying "We'll drop XXxxx employees when UK really exits" is something which even the most ignorant and ruthless politician can't ignore.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
Does Scotland own gas/oil...?...that has been debated since oil was first discovered in the UK...it's all paid into the UKCS...Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it )
Comments
Obviously I don't know for a fact BUT it was stated during the TV debate that EU countries had signed this letter of intent...Cameron signed it...the Remain camp didn't deny that this letter had been signed...
Although I agree, I love the BBC news, I find it very impartial, as Labour complain
About them as much as the Conservatives.
For a laugh, I sometimes watch Fox news
Maybe Cameron wanted to leave the door open for a potential ally "in arms" incase the Brexit would happen?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I love Fox news!!!
We can't get it over here, but when I am in the US, first thing is that I am trying to find Fox news.
It's pure comedy and the legs from the female mods are spectacular! :x
Couldn't ask for much more
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
When the EU falls like dominoes, with country after country calling for their own in/out referendum, where will you emigrate to when Germany throws in the towel?
Much love,
Minigeff :x
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
I'll have you know my legs are quite nice and you should see Barbel's when he's waxed his ;%
Dearest Mingeff,
I know that I have always a place in your bed :x
At least your wife told me so
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The EU is a powerless entity to prevent war, as Higgins points out it remains a non military organisation, how then will it deal with the ever growing impertinence of Putin? As the Ukraine shows us it can't. Or won't for fear of Putin turning off the gas supply.
Of course with possibility of a European army, that issue should be solved, especially as the EU will certainly look to further it's members and therefore it's borders, eventually becoming the United States of eurasia.
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Throughout our history here in the UK, we have fought, bled and died for our democracy and a right to vote for decisions that will affect us. Why should we give that democracy up and have a central EU government that we have not elected in and cannot elect out, and can apply laws that we have no say over democratically?
The EU was a good idea when it was just those 6-8 countries involved. But it has expanded beyond our originally agreement and parameters therin. Too many cooks etc.
I wouldn't worry MG. She no doubt meant rose bed. Horsesh!t is good for them.
Doubtless there are many, many European members here, Higgins included, who's ancestors also fought in the same way. I think that it mainly boils down to land mass though - having done a road trip through France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy last year, I was struck how there are no divisions between nations on the continent. France and Germany and Belgium in particular are indistinguishable in places and our Belgian host in Braunlauf where we stayed on our first night of our honeymoon was very informative in telling us over breakfast how children in the area grew up learning French, German Belgian and English, which is the language of togetherness in the region.
The inescapable fact that Great Britain is an island nation probably has more bearing on the mindset than most would like to believe, but it's got nothing to do with xenophobia or hatred of fellow Europeans in particular.
I love a lot of aspects of Europe, having travelled through it last year. I wouldn't want to visit the north again though, as it's a boring drive and we did find quite a lot of hostility towards us in St Vith for some reason - the pizzeria we dined in on our final night in Belgium was like The Slaughtered Lamb from American Werewolf in London!!!
However, we both fell in love with Tuscany and the whole of the areas in Northern Italy we visited. Switzerland was spectacular too, if reserved in nature. There's a lot to commend the Swiss for too and Italy for one could learn a lot about tunnel building and maintenance from their independent neighbours!!
In the end though, it's the constant fiddling of the laws that a lot of Brits find infuriating. There is a definite 'them and us' mentality in the UK, probably because of the mass of water between us and Belgium. People living in Dover are almost as close to Brussels as they are to Westminster, but they don't feel that close and that's the issue. We've never taken a shine to our Euro MPs, 90+% of the population don't know who their Euro MP is even!
How will Brexit affect VW, and their ability to fix the emissions on my 2010 Jetta TDI?
8-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
I caught them romping in the kitchen and now they plan to move in together
Sorry re-read the thread - I thought it was questions for YOU not EU
Was Dalton actually misty-eyed because he saw Brexit coming even before Britain joined the EU-?
:v
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Well, I think that we all have to accept that if we don't want an EU army (Which I really don't want - NATO is enough) the EU has it's limits to prevent conflicts that end up in war.
But the UK where free to solve the problem on a national basis - it's always easy to blame others.
The EU is not powerless - our arms are our market our checkbooks and our influence.
To punish Russia for what they've done in the Ukraine, there are EU sanctions still active which hit the russian economy more than what they are willing to admit.
EU execs spent countless days to calm down the conflict and did everything in their influence to make clear that this was inacceptable and has consequences.
But at the end, nobody really wanted to start WWIII over that - not the EU, not the USA, not the NATO and not the UK and your options are limited if you don't want to pull the "war card"
I don't see this as an "Only EU failure".
Countries like Greece and Italy did everything that those sanctions would not happen and Germany is losing an ally on that field as the UK where the strongest supporters for those sanctions alongside with the Germans.
As a side note, I am sure that Putin popped some Champagne bottles after the Brexit results.
Dividing the EU states is one of his major goals and it seems that he's been pretty successfully with that. It's pretty well known that Putin financially supports the french Anti-EU Populists Front National.
Saying goes that the other EU-critical right-wing Populists receive similar help from Russia.
I really don't think that we need an European Army.
And think of it: The UK want to limit the EU to the marketplace alone as per the Brexit camp.
So, who's gonna pay for that if everybody just wants the benefit from free trade and no payments?
On one hand the UK don't want to pay and on the other hand demand enormous spendings - that does not go together well.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dear Commander,
I'll only comment on your last sentence as I'll address to the initial question in a seperate reply.
You rightly complain that you and most other people don't know their EU MP.
This is a valid point after asking how much you've done yourself to get him/her known.
Have you every contacted his/her webpage or visited one of the debates?
Ever watched a discussion of the EU parliament?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You raise a good point - for me a prime example that operating in a large unit is better than doing that individually.
Not everybody is blessed to have own gas supply and this may dramatically change if Scotland really leaves the UK.
In Brussels, there are experts, that concentrate and focus on the gas supply for the entire EU and not for individual countries.
Putin can easily play one small country against another one and we all know how much he can do this.
It will be more difficult if we stand together as a Union instead of going our individual national way.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dear Idiot,
well, at first "we" have elected our governments and heads of states, which together with the EU parliament (which "we" have also voted for) decide over how the Europens Institutions are set up.
Remember what I've said about 28 countries with individual interests etc. and it would be horrible and put the EU always on hold, if individual countries would have the chance to "vote out".
The bigger the orgnaisation you are in, the less saying has the individual vote - that's the nature of the game and I am sure that a similar argument can be made from the voters who voted "Stay".
They must carry a decision which they did not really vote for.
I agree with you that the expansion of the EU was too fast and too far.
On the other hand, what do you think would have happended to countries like Bulgaria or Romania, if they would not have been integrated in the EU?
That brings me back to my first post: POPULISTS!
Populists can easily criticize the lack of democracy or the borderless fatness of the EU, but what are the real alternatives?
Is there a better way to goven a Union of 28 different countries than it presently is?
Is the national way the better one in the face of the international challenges that we are presently facing?
Now, my moronic friend - it's very easy down in your neck of the woods where brothers and sisters make their children.
But if you leave your little cave, you'll see that democracy means to carry desicions which have been chosen by the majority of people after well informed campainings.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Does Scotland own gas/oil...?...that has been debated since oil was first discovered in the UK...it's all paid into the UKCS...Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it
They will be able to fix your emissions and give you a massive cheque (as you are living in the US) but won't turn off your ABS. And that's good!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Which happens at practically every democratic election...more people voted against the Conservatives in the last election - yet they 'won' comfortably...unfair ? That's the nature of the beast...
I support that demanding :v
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'll not put my nose into those internal differences of opinions 8-)
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Which is probably wise...Scotland wanting to stay in the EU could hold back the triggering of Article 50 even more !
I'd like to know about phone calls from UK Industry leaders to rush with that decision and into which direction the decision should go.
At the end - employment numbers count and saying "We'll drop XXxxx employees when UK really exits" is something which even the most ignorant and ruthless politician can't ignore.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!