.Scotland would have to pay the rest of the U.K. its part of the national debt before it leaves - and I don't think a set of bagpipes and a couple of haggis will cover it )
I am sure that the EU will happily cover that.
We have deep pocket from the GBP 350.000.000 that we've received from you on a weekly basis
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
And think of it: The UK want to limit the EU to the marketplace alone as per the Brexit camp.
So, who's gonna pay for that if everybody just wants the benefit from free trade and no payments?
Dear Higgins
I'm just throwing this out there: why not? Why does there have to be a price paid for 'free trade' - why not negotiate agreements? Our MPs are already well paid. I negotiate agreements with our customers and suppliers and no-one pays me an extra fee to do so...
Ps enjoying this thread, thanks for starting it -{
the reply is because the EU is far more than the marketplace.
The marketplace is a privilege and if you want it the USP so that people desire to join the EU
But the example of Turkey shows, that we need more than the willingness to do free trade with us to become a EU member.
The often cited example Norway - UK politicians "forgot" during campaining, that
Norway pays similar to a membership fee
Norway agreed on the freedom of movement of all kinds and that includes people and workforce.
Norway accepts most of EU regulations
Norway has no decision power
If the marketplace was for free, everyone would be picking out the privileges and not carry the burdens.
The Union is founded on solidarity. The strong pay for the weak in order to build something better for all of us.
There is no free lunch.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I said, enough. This thread has been a light-hearted one and I warned right at the start that it wasn't to fall into the kind of mess other political threads have ended up in. Later I warned you personally, stag.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
In all honesty, I think that the odds are higher that the UK will NOT pull article 50 than they will do.
I'd like to know about phone calls from UK Industry leaders to rush with that decision and into which direction the decision should go.
At the end - employment numbers count and saying "We'll drop XXxxx employees when UK really exits" is something which even the most ignorant and ruthless politician can't ignore.
There is somewhat of a 'standoff' at the moment...although this is not helped by the turmoil in UK politics at the moment...the tension will build until there is a new PM...but it's like an old spaghetti western - both sides waiting for the music to stop before they draw )
Dear Higgins,
Do you think the EU will have to make some reforms to move forward and be seen as truly representative of all its members?
Coming back to that question.
I've confirmed already that undoubtedly there is a lot of work ahead for the EU to reach more hearts in the EU and outside.
May I ask in return, if the recent events are worth recapturing how the Brexit campaign was held by all parties and how simple is was to get the public opinion into a certain direction with apparent easy replies and bold actions.
The Brexit campaigners did not stop ranting about the present elites but now act no better after Johnson will not execute what he was fighting for.
So the bigger question is: Are the Populists a true alternative to the Establishment and how easy can a population be manipulated by fear, hate and apparent bold and simple answers?
And this does not only apply to the UK!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
May I ask in return, if the recent events are worth recapturing how the Brexit campaing was held by all parties and how simple is was to get the public opinion into a certain direction with apparent easy replies and bold actions.
Same could be said for the Remain campaign...they told HUGE whoppers too !
It was down to 'mobilising' the voters...many youngsters decided not to vote and you have to look at why that was...?...disinterest in the outcome, not used to voting or a total apathy towards politics ?
The standard of debate, issuing of facts ? Was horrendous in this referendum. In fact
This one should be used as an example of how not to hold a referendum. It was used
To put out propaganda, from each side, but no information on any or the issues affecting
Normal people.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
It was down to 'mobilising' the voters...many youngsters decided not to vote and you have to look at why that was...?...disinterest in the outcome, not used to voting or a total apathy towards politics ?
As far as I know it was school/university holidays last Thursday, so it was probably the alternative to stay in bed or go voting
Sometimes we should not over-complicate things
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The standard of debate, issuing of facts ? Was horrendous in this referendum. In fact
This one should be used as an example of how not to hold a referendum. It was used
To put out propaganda, from each side, but no information on any or the issues affecting
Normal people.
Ahem, I was trying to put in some fact or expert views which was regularly condemned as "threats"
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Sadly your sheer animal magnetism, and super macho identity, leads many of us to
See any of your post as, an almost animalistic threat you can almost feel the
Testosterone flow across the web.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Dear Higgins,
Do you think the EU will have to make some reforms to move forward and be seen as truly representative of all its members?
Coming back to that question.
I've confirmed already that undoubtedly there is a lot of work ahead for the EU to reach more hearts in the EU and outside.
May I ask in return, if the recent events are worth recapturing how the Brexit campaign was held by all parties and how simple is was to get the public opinion into a certain direction with apparent easy replies and bold actions.
The Brexit campaigners did not stop ranting about the present elites but now act no better after Johnson will not execute what he was fighting for.
So the bigger question is: Are the Populists a true alternative to the Establishment and how easy can a population be manipulated by fear, hate and apparent bold and simple answers?
And this does not only apply to the UK!
To make a claim that over 17 million British voters were somehow manipulated by Boris Johnson and a leave campaign truly does insult the intelligence of the British people, whilst Johnson was busy as London mayor the government promised a referendum, they had to deliver on that promise. Despite the negative campaign all the information anybody needed to make a considered decision was and is available.
Britain has a great tradition of seeing politicians as untrustworthy and self serving. The people will always have the final voice and did.
The EU has been blamed for a lot of things in Britain some unfairly, some rightly so and often by our own MP's shifting the blame.
The decision by the most popular demand to leave is not connected to a populist movement, populist movements are more at home in continental Europe than here, but due to the simple fact that the EU is not perceived to work on many levels for this nation.
The freedom of movement is problematic due to the geographical nature of the British Isles NOT some form of racism, nationalism or little islander mind set. The fact that we are an island nation is relative to our feeling of detachment from the mainland and to a degree adds to the feeling of independence being our natural state.
It's quite amazing how referendum results are perceived. The EU chairman Juncker presided over his nations referendum for ratification and declared he would resign should he lose, his side won by less than 5% but as that's the right result it's unquestioned.
I'm afraid in many minds here and abroad the EU project is failing, extreme right wing rumblings in Europe are becoming a roar, even in Germany. Italy, Sweden, Spain, Denmark and even at some point France are set to exit, maybe not now, maybe not in your lifetime but almost certainly in mine and in my children's. And it is for them I voted as I did, after careful consideration and trying understand both arguments.
The embers are glowing under the EU, it will only take a slight breeze to ignite them and I didn't want my children and future grandchildren caught in an inferno with no escape ladder.
Dear Higgins,
Do you think the EU will have to make some reforms to move forward and be seen as truly representative of all its members?
Coming back to that question.
I've confirmed already that undoubtedly there is a lot of work ahead for the EU to reach more hearts in the EU and outside.
May I ask in return, if the recent events are worth recapturing how the Brexit campaign was held by all parties and how simple is was to get the public opinion into a certain direction with apparent easy replies and bold actions.
The Brexit campaigners did not stop ranting about the present elites but now act no better after Johnson will not execute what he was fighting for.
So the bigger question is: Are the Populists a true alternative to the Establishment and how easy can a population be manipulated by fear, hate and apparent bold and simple answers?
And this does not only apply to the UK!
As for brexit campaign being a blueprint for populism, I disagree, populism is a belief that ordinary people of a nation have a voice and governments aren't controlled by the ruling elite is mainly an extreme right movement, farage, Gove and Johnson are hardly extreme right, or Populists. As I said a movement more at home in mainland Europe.
As for brexit campaign being a blueprint for populism, I disagree, populism is a belief that ordinary people of a nation have a voice and governments aren't controlled by the ruling elite is mainly an extreme right movement, farage, Gove and Johnson are hardly extreme right, or Populists. As I said a movement more at home in mainland Europe.
Well, we have to disagree here.
When you hear interviews from people on the street who are ranting against their political leaders (and the EU), you can see a pattern.
Populists take people from there promising them easy replies (such as "getting back control" or "I am not a racist, but....") after having confirmed those fears and having stirred a wast amount of division in the population, where opponents hate each other and nobody trusts noone anymore and so on. Everything embedded in a borderline PC xenophobic undertone (just reminding you about the "immigration issue". Cameron wanted that workforce and encouraged them to come).
This is sometimes on the right wing (I regard Farage as a rightwinger) and sometimes on the left wing and as we've seen recently is not limited to the mainland.
As you confirm that the UK have a long tradition of lying Politicians (someone has to vote for them - remember) just to win elections - you can see this also for a long time in the UK.
May I add that we have a similar movement here in Germany (AFD) - so we are not any better X-(
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Just one point to add with regards immigration, the UK has a wide needful history of integrated immigration going back centuries and will continue to do so, but due to the size of our island that has limitations and these limits have been exceeded, the vast majority of UK citizens have no racist leanings, if the UK was of unlimited Size and resources then immigration would not be an issue here. Of course there exists a minority of insular minded, bigoted, uncultured and uneducated neanderthals who hold an incoherent argument about immigration, but there always will be in any nation.
The context to think of it is this, if the UK were a building the EU directive on health and safety appertaining to fire regulations would have the UK exceeding safe limits.
But Respectfully we must agree to disagree.
Sadly the whole premise of this thread is that Higgins knows what he's talking about,
and on past experience, that's really an example of hope over experience !
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Sadly the whole premise of this thread is that Higgins knows what he's talking about,
and on past experience, that's really an example of hope over experience !
The thread title reads "Ask Higgins..." I nowhere said that you are receiving a competent reply ) ) )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I am hearing the "landmass argument" again and again since the Brexit campain has started.
This is not directed to you, Chriscoop or to anyone in particular - I am feeling massive embarrasment by this term.
It reminds me of a Nazi term saying "The Boat is full" and that UKIP ad strengthens that point:
Now let's try to bring some facts into the highly emotional "landmass" argument
UK: population: 64,1 mill, landmass 241.930 sq km -> 265/sqm
Germany: population: 80,62 million, landmass 348.672 sq km -> 231/sqm
So the population/landmass ratio is a bit tighter than in Germany, admitted - by 12%
But in beautiful countries like Belgium ( 342/sq km) and the Netherlands (406/sq km) that ratio is significantly higher.
Now let's have a look at net immigration over the last years (keeping in mind that the native population in all european countries except France is decreasing and aging - who's gonna work for the pentions in the future?)
UK ~200.000 immigrants/ year net
Germany ~300.000 immigrats/year net
Last year, Germany took around 1.5 million, that's 1.500.000 refugees and the UK accepted 1000 promising to take 20.000 by 2020.
If France leaves the EU, the EU is dead!
There is a strong right-wing nationalist anti-EU movement in France (Front National) which is supported by Russia but all my french friends assure me that a FREXIT won't happen. I do hope that they are right.
Do you think France, Denmark, the Netherlands and/or Hungary will leave the union after Brexit?
I have hope that 2 things will happen
1. The EU recognizes that they have to substantially regain confidence and the hearts from the european people.
This particular thread is my attempt for a contribution in that direction.
I personally want Juncker to resign but don't think that that will happen
2. Seeing how miserably the UK Anti-EU Populists (sorry, Criscoop, I insist - they are Populists!*) failed and ran out of the house which they left burning down should let voters in other countries realize that those are no true alternative to the EU which is still doing much good for the people!
*The UK BREXIT campainers - yes I mean Johnson and Farage - could not have exposed themselfs any better for being Populists :
"Being Against" was everything that they had and still have to offer. Farage took back the 350 million nonsense hours after the result was clear, Johnson ran away like a kid hving stolen some candies and left the entire EU in a massive mess!
If that's not the definition for Populists, what should it be?
In Netherlands a Referendum will not happen, De Wilders just was denied with his claim.
Not sure about Denmark. Living close by and knowing many Denish people, I can hardly imagine that they will decide to leave if there is a Referendum. Their prices are already ridiculous and they rely on the EU market.
Hungary is a different matter.
But if we could, I'd kick them out of the EU today rather than tomorrow - so no harm done if they really leave.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Surely landmass has little to do with. Its the infrastructure which is important
Infrastructure can be changed (I you are really willing to), or don't you know how to raise houses in the UK, welshie :v
For the 1.500.000 refugees from last years, we did not have the infrastructure ready. Everybody was doing their best to cope with that challenge here.
At times, gymn buildings have been occupied, containers be built all over the country, tent village risen. We could have said - "sorry no infrastructure here", but fortunately we haven't
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Surely landmass has little to do with. Its the infrastructure which is important
Easy to say while living on the Falklands that enjoys one of the biggest sqkm per capita, but you do have a point infrastructure is important but that needs resources and space. The USA has huge amounts of space and everything is bigger, it also helps them that the military built most the freeway network, just one example, the last genuine figures I saw on sqkm per capita had the eurozone around 13sqkm per 1000 people and the UK on 4sqkm per 1000 people. The also suffers at the hands of Higgins stats as within the UK Scotland and Wales have a lower person to Sq km than England does and the stats don't take into account internal domestic movements.
Little infrastructure here im afraid!! Our houses are timber framed kits imported from Scotland and believe it or not there is a housing shortage here for people due to the influx of contractors from the UK (doctors, teachers, oil exploration etc)
They can come to the Falklands but they will have to bring tents!!!! However good luck with tents with our weather!!!!
Land aint much use without infrastructure (unless your a farmer)
On a more serious note our politicians did enquire about taking migrants during the height of the crisis, they were knocked back for some reason.
Comments
I am sure that the EU will happily cover that.
We have deep pocket from the GBP 350.000.000 that we've received from you on a weekly basis
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dear Higgins
I'm just throwing this out there: why not? Why does there have to be a price paid for 'free trade' - why not negotiate agreements? Our MPs are already well paid. I negotiate agreements with our customers and suppliers and no-one pays me an extra fee to do so...
Ps enjoying this thread, thanks for starting it -{
the reply is because the EU is far more than the marketplace.
The marketplace is a privilege and if you want it the USP so that people desire to join the EU
But the example of Turkey shows, that we need more than the willingness to do free trade with us to become a EU member.
The often cited example Norway - UK politicians "forgot" during campaining, that
Norway pays similar to a membership fee
Norway agreed on the freedom of movement of all kinds and that includes people and workforce.
Norway accepts most of EU regulations
Norway has no decision power
If the marketplace was for free, everyone would be picking out the privileges and not carry the burdens.
The Union is founded on solidarity. The strong pay for the weak in order to build something better for all of us.
There is no free lunch.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
There is somewhat of a 'standoff' at the moment...although this is not helped by the turmoil in UK politics at the moment...the tension will build until there is a new PM...but it's like an old spaghetti western - both sides waiting for the music to stop before they draw
Coming back to that question.
I've confirmed already that undoubtedly there is a lot of work ahead for the EU to reach more hearts in the EU and outside.
May I ask in return, if the recent events are worth recapturing how the Brexit campaign was held by all parties and how simple is was to get the public opinion into a certain direction with apparent easy replies and bold actions.
The Brexit campaigners did not stop ranting about the present elites but now act no better after Johnson will not execute what he was fighting for.
So the bigger question is: Are the Populists a true alternative to the Establishment and how easy can a population be manipulated by fear, hate and apparent bold and simple answers?
And this does not only apply to the UK!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Same could be said for the Remain campaign...they told HUGE whoppers too !
It was down to 'mobilising' the voters...many youngsters decided not to vote and you have to look at why that was...?...disinterest in the outcome, not used to voting or a total apathy towards politics ?
This one should be used as an example of how not to hold a referendum. It was used
To put out propaganda, from each side, but no information on any or the issues affecting
Normal people.
Absolutely!
As far as I know it was school/university holidays last Thursday, so it was probably the alternative to stay in bed or go voting
Sometimes we should not over-complicate things
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Ahem, I was trying to put in some fact or expert views which was regularly condemned as "threats"
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
See any of your post as, an almost animalistic threat
Testosterone flow across the web.
Britain has a great tradition of seeing politicians as untrustworthy and self serving. The people will always have the final voice and did.
The EU has been blamed for a lot of things in Britain some unfairly, some rightly so and often by our own MP's shifting the blame.
The decision by the most popular demand to leave is not connected to a populist movement, populist movements are more at home in continental Europe than here, but due to the simple fact that the EU is not perceived to work on many levels for this nation.
The freedom of movement is problematic due to the geographical nature of the British Isles NOT some form of racism, nationalism or little islander mind set. The fact that we are an island nation is relative to our feeling of detachment from the mainland and to a degree adds to the feeling of independence being our natural state.
It's quite amazing how referendum results are perceived. The EU chairman Juncker presided over his nations referendum for ratification and declared he would resign should he lose, his side won by less than 5% but as that's the right result it's unquestioned.
I'm afraid in many minds here and abroad the EU project is failing, extreme right wing rumblings in Europe are becoming a roar, even in Germany. Italy, Sweden, Spain, Denmark and even at some point France are set to exit, maybe not now, maybe not in your lifetime but almost certainly in mine and in my children's. And it is for them I voted as I did, after careful consideration and trying understand both arguments.
The embers are glowing under the EU, it will only take a slight breeze to ignite them and I didn't want my children and future grandchildren caught in an inferno with no escape ladder.
I think, that stepping back and reflecting about the raised question would be in order.
Just my opinion.
And in my opinion Farage and Johnson and their campainings are the blueprints for my definition of Populists.
The information was out there but they managed somehow that many people regarded those as not credible.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
What will Friday night's euromillions jackpot winner numbers be?
Cheers,
MG
Vive le droit à la libre expression! Je suis Charlie!
www.helpforheroes.org.uk
www.cancerresearchuk.org
Well, we have to disagree here.
When you hear interviews from people on the street who are ranting against their political leaders (and the EU), you can see a pattern.
Populists take people from there promising them easy replies (such as "getting back control" or "I am not a racist, but....") after having confirmed those fears and having stirred a wast amount of division in the population, where opponents hate each other and nobody trusts noone anymore and so on. Everything embedded in a borderline PC xenophobic undertone (just reminding you about the "immigration issue". Cameron wanted that workforce and encouraged them to come).
This is sometimes on the right wing (I regard Farage as a rightwinger) and sometimes on the left wing and as we've seen recently is not limited to the mainland.
As you confirm that the UK have a long tradition of lying Politicians (someone has to vote for them - remember) just to win elections - you can see this also for a long time in the UK.
May I add that we have a similar movement here in Germany (AFD) - so we are not any better X-(
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The context to think of it is this, if the UK were a building the EU directive on health and safety appertaining to fire regulations would have the UK exceeding safe limits.
But Respectfully we must agree to disagree.
and on past experience, that's really an example of hope over experience !
The thread title reads "Ask Higgins..." I nowhere said that you are receiving a competent reply
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Instead I ask him about the EU. Do you think France, Denmark, the Netherlands and/or Hungary will leave the union after Brexit?
If they do, do you think the EU will survive?
This is not directed to you, Chriscoop or to anyone in particular - I am feeling massive embarrasment by this term.
It reminds me of a Nazi term saying "The Boat is full" and that UKIP ad strengthens that point:
Now let's try to bring some facts into the highly emotional "landmass" argument
UK: population: 64,1 mill, landmass 241.930 sq km -> 265/sqm
Germany: population: 80,62 million, landmass 348.672 sq km -> 231/sqm
So the population/landmass ratio is a bit tighter than in Germany, admitted - by 12%
But in beautiful countries like Belgium ( 342/sq km) and the Netherlands (406/sq km) that ratio is significantly higher.
Now let's have a look at net immigration over the last years (keeping in mind that the native population in all european countries except France is decreasing and aging - who's gonna work for the pentions in the future?)
UK ~200.000 immigrants/ year net
Germany ~300.000 immigrats/year net
Last year, Germany took around 1.5 million, that's 1.500.000 refugees and the UK accepted 1000 promising to take 20.000 by 2020.
Those, ladies and gentlemen are the facts.
http://world.bymap.org/LandArea.html
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/7.18
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/immigration-offers-germany-costs-and-benefits
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Recommend this thread,
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/46153/the-ajb-magic-8-ball/
The AJB magic 8 Ball.
I took the liberty to twist your questions:
If France leaves the EU, the EU is dead!
There is a strong right-wing nationalist anti-EU movement in France (Front National) which is supported by Russia but all my french friends assure me that a FREXIT won't happen. I do hope that they are right.
I have hope that 2 things will happen
1. The EU recognizes that they have to substantially regain confidence and the hearts from the european people.
This particular thread is my attempt for a contribution in that direction.
I personally want Juncker to resign but don't think that that will happen
2. Seeing how miserably the UK Anti-EU Populists (sorry, Criscoop, I insist - they are Populists!*) failed and ran out of the house which they left burning down should let voters in other countries realize that those are no true alternative to the EU which is still doing much good for the people!
*The UK BREXIT campainers - yes I mean Johnson and Farage - could not have exposed themselfs any better for being Populists :
"Being Against" was everything that they had and still have to offer. Farage took back the 350 million nonsense hours after the result was clear, Johnson ran away like a kid hving stolen some candies and left the entire EU in a massive mess!
If that's not the definition for Populists, what should it be?
In Netherlands a Referendum will not happen, De Wilders just was denied with his claim.
Not sure about Denmark. Living close by and knowing many Denish people, I can hardly imagine that they will decide to leave if there is a Referendum. Their prices are already ridiculous and they rely on the EU market.
Hungary is a different matter.
But if we could, I'd kick them out of the EU today rather than tomorrow - so no harm done if they really leave.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Infrastructure can be changed (I you are really willing to), or don't you know how to raise houses in the UK, welshie :v
For the 1.500.000 refugees from last years, we did not have the infrastructure ready. Everybody was doing their best to cope with that challenge here.
At times, gymn buildings have been occupied, containers be built all over the country, tent village risen. We could have said - "sorry no infrastructure here", but fortunately we haven't
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
They can come to the Falklands but they will have to bring tents!!!! However good luck with tents with our weather!!!!
Land aint much use without infrastructure (unless your a farmer)
On a more serious note our politicians did enquire about taking migrants during the height of the crisis, they were knocked back for some reason.