What are the worst choreographed Bond fights?

osris

Everyone remembers the lift/elevator fight in DAF, the train fight in FRWL and the hotel room fight in OHMSS as being among the best choreographed fights, but what fights are the worst choreographed in your view?

Sir Miles

The fencing scene from DAD - absolutely appalling X-(

It's terrible to watch

Chriscoop

Good lord sir miles your right. For me Roger Moore at the karate school! And Roger Moore in staceys house avtak, and Brozzers couple of punches against the Chinese guys at wai lins hide out.

Thunderpussy

I too think the Karate school fight is poor

Chriscoop

Well tp as two masculine manly men. Grrrrr the Roger Moore judo chop is just too flimsy.

Thunderpussy

)
Although poor as it was, it help get me interested in martial arts.

superado

I think I'd need to go by Bond actor for this. When I saw the title of this thread, I actually had in mind the DAF elevator scene; I do think it's among the best of the series but it seemed like a tired rehash of the FRWL fight, as if "hey, let's redo the Red Grant fight," which looked too choreographed. Of the other Connery fights, the aerial perspective of the Kobe docks rooftop gauntlet looked choreographed too.

What can I say about Moore, whose fights were overall anemic though there were some that stood out within his own range like the fights in TSWLM, but to be expected, I felt that AVTAK had the weakest fight sequences, like the one in Zorin's secret lab.

As much as I thought Dalton came as the closest incarnation of Fleming's Bond, I felt he fell short in the fight scenes, with the TLD Russian airbase jail fight and the LTK bar fight coming to mind; the irony for me is how he was able to emote his toughness that made you think he'd give you a Jason Bourne type licking (yes, even then I had already visualized that thanks to Robert Ludlum's excellent fighting narratives), only to give you some ham with the actual fight.

The Brosnan fights started well, with the GE gear room fight with 006 in particular paying homage to the Connery style; sadly that was never matched. Then the cracks began to form with some of the fight scenes in TWINE which overall started to look lazy, then going full-blown lazy in the 2nd half of DAD, with the John Wayne arm-cocking that just reminded me of the Moore era.

Thanks to the undeniable influence of the Bourne movies, we were in for a treat with the Craig fight scenes, though I think they generally tapered off in intensity after CR (though the QoS fights were excellent, most esp. in the 1st half). However, the ones I didn't particularly like were, the Istanbul train fight that look too much like choreographed dancing; and the fight with Patrice in Shanghai that looked too stylistic like a fight from the Matrix to the beat of taiko drums.

Chriscoop

superado wrote:

I think I'd need to go by Bond actor for this. When I saw the title of this thread, I actually had in mind the DAF elevator scene; I do think it's among the best of the series but it seemed like a tired rehash of the FRWL fight, as if "hey, let's redo the Red Grant fight," which looked too choreographed. Of the other Connery fights, the aerial perspective of the Kobe docks rooftop gauntlet looked choreographed too.

What can I say about Moore, whose fights were overall anemic though there were some that stood out within his own range like the fights in TSWLM, but to be expected, I felt that AVTAK had the weakest fight sequences, like the one in Zorin's secret lab.

As much as I thought Dalton came as the closest incarnation of Fleming's Bond, I felt he fell short in the fight scenes, with the TLD Russian airbase jail fight and the LTK bar fight coming to mind; the irony for me is how he was able to emote his toughness that made you think he'd give you a Jason Bourne type licking (yes, even then I had already visualized that thanks to Robert Ludlum's excellent fighting narratives), only to give you some ham with the actual fight.

The Brosnan fights started well, with the GE gear room fight with 006 in particular paying homage to the Connery style; sadly that was never matched. Then the cracks began to form with some of the fight scenes in TWINE which overall started to look lazy, then going full-blown lazy in the 2nd half of DAD, with the John Wayne arm-cocking that just reminded me of the Moore era.

Thanks to the undeniable influence of the Bourne movies, we were in for a treat with the Craig fight scenes, though I think they generally tapered off in intensity after CR (though the QoS fights were excellent, most esp. in the 1st half). However, the ones I didn't particularly like were, the Istanbul train fight that look too much like choreographed dancing; and the fight with Patrice in Shanghai that looked too stylistic like a fight from the Matrix to the beat of taiko drums.

Ah yes, I forgot about the avtak laboratory fight, pretty dire, though your never going to look fierce in a velvet tracksuit!

Thunderpussy

I agree the AVTAK factory fight is also very poor. Partially spoilt for me as the big bearded heavy
was a regular extra on EastEnders.

Chriscoop

Really, ) that is off putting, I feel the same when I see Laurence from emmerdale in a Russian uniform in living daylights.

Matt S

I've always thought the cable car fight with Jaws in MR was very poor. I find very few of Moore's fights suspenseful or believable. The best Moore fights are the amusing fights, like cutting the wire in Tee Hee's arm or electrocuting Jaws' teeth. Those fights are amusing because of those moments, but they're not good for fighting.

heartbroken_mr_drax

Great thread!

As mentioned by Superado, I really hate the Kobe dock fight in YOLT, especially the aerial shots and the jumps into the containers. It all looks very weak and is quite boring. Generally most of the action scenes in YOLT are weak and hammy anyway.

Best fight? Red Grant/Bond in FRWL.

Golrush007

I agree with Matt S about the cable car fight in Moonraker. I'm certainly no expert on fighting, and to be honest none of the fight scenes in Bond really stand out to me as being particularly poor. Obviously each actor has their own strengths and weaknesses regarding the hand-to-hand fighting aspects of Bond, but I'm willing to accept each as they are without worrying much about how good they are at fisticuffs. However, the fight with Jaws has always looked particularly awkward to me. Obviously they are atop a cable car so it's quite understandable, but poor Jaws fights as though as he has just suffered a disabling bout of vertigo, and it just looks bad on screen.

CoolHandBond

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Great thread!

As mentioned by Superado, I really hate the Kobe dock fight in YOLT, especially the aerial shots and the jumps into the containers. It all looks very weak and is quite boring. Generally most of the action scenes in YOLT are weak and hammy anyway.

Best fight? Red Grant/Bond in FRWL.

Seeing those YOLT scenes in the cinema in 1967 as an 11 year old I can tell you they were magical. I still think the Kobe dock aerial shots are stunning with that gorgeous music even though as an adult I can see some of the punches missing and the thugs still collapsing in a heap. Sometimes the sheer majesty of the set piece overrides everything else.

Have to agree with FRWL - it is still the greatest, believable fight ever on film not just in the Bond canon.

Thunderpussy

I think that aerial shot, is very iconic -{

Higgins

Yes! Wouldn't want YOLT without that aerial shot!

Thunderpussy

Nice to see you showing some good taste )

Chriscoop

It's one of the highlights of the film for me and as previously stated the music just makes it. I can understand why some don't rate it as good fight scene as far as choreography goes but still! If you were playing a hapless henchman would you want to get close to Sean I really love a pub fight connery? That guy relished a good dust up

MarcAngeDraco

Bond vs Sandor - could have been good, except it's just too slow, and I'm surprised some of those "punches" landed!
Bond vs Graves - electrocution, robocop suit, bad CGI... sigh.
Bond vs Teehee
Bond vs Jaws (train)
Bond vs Jaws (cable car)
Bond vs Renard

In terms of some underrated gems:
- Moore's best fight sequence could have been the one in Saida's room, but that mirror doesn't do it any favours. The opposite in fact.
- Connery's fight in Osato's office is quite good I reckon.
- Bond vs Greene I really like. Bond facing off against a maniac is always good.
- Bond vs Patrice on the train I like a lot.
- Similarly, the silhouetted Bond vs Patrice is my favourite, along with Bond vs Grant and 007 vs 006. Brutal, dangerous and beautifully shot.
- Bond vs Slate is also excellent, if only for the look of regret we get from Bond at the end of the fight.

Chriscoop

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Bond vs Sandor - could have been good, except it's just too slow, and I'm surprised some of those "punches" landed!
Bond vs Graves - electrocution, robocop suit, bad CGI... sigh.
Bond vs Teehee
Bond vs Jaws (train)
Bond vs Jaws (cable car)
Bond vs Renard

In terms of some underrated gems:
- Moore's best fight sequence could have been the one in Saida's room, but that mirror doesn't do it any favours. The opposite in fact.
- Connery's fight in Osato's office is quite good I reckon.
- Bond vs Greene I really like. Bond facing off against a maniac is always good.
- Bond vs Patrice on the train I like a lot.
- Similarly, the silhouetted Bond vs Patrice is my favourite, along with Bond vs Grant and 007 vs 006. Brutal, dangerous and beautifully shot.
- Bond vs Slate is also excellent, if only for the look of regret we get from Bond at the end of the fight.

Interesting you see regret on bonds face as slate bleeds out, I see almost a look of inevitability at death.

Thunderpussy

I thought, Craig simply looked professional, in that scene.
killing Slate, was just something that had to be done.

Chriscoop

That too, I wish the ferocity of DC's bond had been continued after qos, with the exception of the hinx fight maybe.

Thunderpussy

I agree, I never thought I say that I thought there was a little too
much humour in SPECTRE. Perhaps that's why the Hinx fight stands
out so much ?

Chriscoop

I think your right, DC is more effective in the grittier bond roles than the more humourous ones. It just suits him being flippantly violent.

welshboy78

I also love the aerial shots in YOLT

Chriscoop

welshboy78 wrote:

I also love the aerial shots in YOLT

Your a man of impeccable taste -{

welshboy78

I love the look / backdrop of the Skyfall Patrice fight but thought the fight was too easy for Bond

Thunderpussy

I've always said, Craig suits the rather cruel jibes and Insults that Connery used to
Deliver so well. As opposed to the jolly jokes and one-liners of Roger. An example
I love is in SF. After Silva tells M about being tortured, Craig gives a look of he couldn't
Care less. Even though nothing has been said , you get the message .

Chriscoop

I know exactly what you mean, DC has a very descriptive face, ad in the end of the slate fight. The other actors can add the humour, it worked for me in SP when q quips about only bringing back one piece bond just gives a look to stop qs and tanners laughter. Like connery DC has an aura of casual brutality, or at least he did until Mendes made him an over the hill old dog of an agent. Thats not saying I dont love Sf and SP.

Chriscoop

welshboy78 wrote:

I love the look / backdrop of the Skyfall Patrice fight but thought the fight was too easy for Bond

It works really well in the context of the scene, but I do like a gritty bone cruncher, I love the CR venice palazzo fight, the ruthless beating of the guards in the qos opera scene, in fact Ive enjoyed most of DC's physical stuff, just the length of time it took bond to beat Greene irks me slightly, James bond vs tiny slimy dude? Bond should not have struggled there but metered out some serious punishment......for Mathis -{

Thunderpussy

I laughed so much at that scene, I missed Tanner's expression change. It wasn't
Until a few more viewings.
I agree about the air of "casual Brutality" Craig looks like a professional . In many ways he
Fulfills the brief, of a veneer of sophistication hiding the Brutality beneath.