) I think the plan is to drag out the EU talks, for so long that everyone gets fed up and decides it would be
simply easier to stay. …….. Personally I've past the point of giving a flying F**K !
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
A very accurate analogy for the whole ludicrous situation. Short-term gain was the only goal of those politicians who put us into this mess.
+1
I don't mind countries voting to leave the EU. What I do mind is voting to leave based on unrealistic expectations and without having any sort of plan. I have been in favour of a new referendum, but Higgins pointw are valid and frankly I'm not sure Britain can stand another referendum.
The so-called Norway+ is being talked about as a solution. The Norwegian government and business community doesn't want that to happen. Our deal With the EU is a fragile thing and we don't want Britain to start rocking the boat.
Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"
The so-called Norway+ is being talked about as a solution. The Norwegian government and business community doesn't want that to happen. Our deal With the EU is a fragile thing and we don't want Britain to start rocking the boat.
The Norway model has been offered to the UK, but has been refused.
Uk did not want to pay and did not want to obey to EU legistlative
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"
Well, nobody in their right mind would dispute, that the Brexit vote was based on blatant lies, misinformation, social media propaganda and russian interfering.
So, repeating on and on, how binding the Brexit vote is, bears some doubts and the outrage I can't really take seriously.
Truth is, that the tories used the Brexit referendum for their perceived own benefit - well that backfired badly for them.
Matter of fact is, that nobody in the UK parliament is willing to execute a hard Brexit - no matter how ill-informed the vote was.
So even members of the tories indirectly know, that most of what has been said during the campaining was unrealistic and would lead to disaster. And they came slowly to their senses and are trapped in their own lies.
I find it ironic, that the conservative party put the execution of the Brexit vote into the hands of someone, who was a remainer all the time. Additionally, the leader of the opposition party is a Brexiteer at heart.
It's really like letting a wild wolf take care of your chicken stable.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Now that the Brexiteers have (mildly put) badly disappointed in delivering what you have been voting for, what is your line of action for the maybe very soon upcoming elections: Are you now voting Labour?
Another question: If we imagine for a second, that a hard Brexit would be done on 29th March, what do you suggest will happen on the irish border?
Just an example: During the BSE crisis in 2015, british meat was not allowed to be sold in the EU.
British farmers used Ireland to traffic their meat into the EU by a large degree. That will certainly not happen again.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The EU is the land of milk and honey, the UK will have
Cheap food and cars along with full employment {[]
I for one can't wait next we just need to get rid of
Scotland. I think with all that short bread and
Whisky, they're holding the rest of us back.
On an unrelated matter, how many generations can I
go back to get a German passport ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
The EU is the land of milk and honey, the UK will have
Cheap food and cars along with full employment {[]
I for one can't wait next we just need to get rid of
Scotland. I think with all that short bread and
Whisky, they're holding the rest of us back.
On an unrelated matter, how many generations can I
go back to get a German passport ?
North Carolina would love to have you since you are white.
My ancestors knew what they were doing, leaving Germany an
Industrial powerhouse, to move to an island which has only one
National resource, The Potato ! ........ although we do make
Lovely chips
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit. It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU. That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.
Because like it or loathe it, the British public voted out. Democracy is dead if someone cancelled it.
As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit. It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU. That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.
You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.
They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.
Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea )
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit. It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU. That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.
You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.
They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.
Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea )
Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"
Oliver Cromwell was the leader of a bloody revolution and some see him as a dictator. Not that I think that's what you want, but I think it needs to be said.
I actually feel sorry for Theresa May. She has taken upon herself a responsiblilty no-one wants. Her job is nearly impossible and no matter what she does a large part of the population will dislike her. She knows it and she took the job anyway.
As an outsider (Yank) looking in, it seems like somebody over there in the UK parliament needs to fall on their sword and just cancel the whole Brexit. It'd end his/her political career but it'd at least put an end to the question and start a process for recovery for the UK and the EU. That person would be reviled for several years but would be looked upon favorably in hindsight.
You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.
They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.
Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea )
You know very well how stubborn, magoifan
:v
Good to seeing you knowing about your rights- equally about your duties -to vote ;%
And article 61 magna carta sounds different.
To put it quite simply, there is no Article 61 of Magna Carta and rebellion is unlawful. There is no smoking constitutional gun that means you don’t have to pay taxes or fines or obey the law. There is, in fact, only one way to lawfully rebel and that is to be on the winning side so you’re the one who decides what is and isn’t lawful.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
As an American, I can only thank the UK for, temporarily at least, assuming the role of most clueless and dysfunctional government, which the US has played for the better part of the last three years. I'm sure we'll take it back in due course, but for now our shoulders are less sore.
FWIW, my more serious view is that the original referendum was a horrible idea, irrespective of outcome. Isn't the whole premise of a representative democracy to elect people specifically to take important policy positions, presumably with the benefit of a lot more information and research than the average citizen can reasonably be expected to have?
Now that the Brexiteers have (mildly put) badly disappointed in delivering what you have been voting for, what is your line of action for the maybe very soon upcoming elections: Are you now voting Labour?
Another question: If we imagine for a second, that a hard Brexit would be done on 29th March, what do you suggest will happen on the irish border?
Just an example: During the BSE crisis in 2015, british meat was not allowed to be sold in the EU.
British farmers used Ireland to traffic their meat into the EU by a large degree. That will certainly not happen again.
Well, in all seriousness, I've never divulged which way I voted, it is true that I am an historic Conservative supporter as has been most my family, I believe in a conservatively governed country. I am more right of middle as opposed to far right or even moderately right. I won't be voting for the current Labour set up.
The Irish border, this is a major issue for both sides, as ireland has been a way for cheaper pork and beef to enter into the UK also, undercutting out own farmers and driving down the value of our own products. Its also not known if these products have traveled illegal distances as livestock or have been slaughtered and prepared according to EU regulations. The answer is simply lies along the same path as the Swiss border and the norwegian/Swedish border. The whole Irish border issue is from the EU perspective a massive misdirection. My own view would be that should we leave the EU with no deal in place the UK does nothing on the Irish border, if the EU wants to protect itself then it can control the border. I would also be asking that the Irish government step up its repayments of the bail out loan the UK gave it to stop it going bankrupt.
My point of view has always been measured by what I read and take due diligence to research, the EU has done and does do a lot of good, but it also has massive failings. I don't think it's good for either party to leave without a deal, it's just a shame everyone has got caught up with the withdrawal agreement when the real negotiations have yet to begin.
Brexit ; debacle, crisis, badly prepared, mess! Whatever you thought you knew in 2016 has been roundly exposed. The UK has one fundamental problem here, the nation voted to leave, but the house of commons is filled with mps the majority of which don't want to leave. Free votes on all matters Brexit should have been allowed from the start. How is whipping your party votes and voting the way your party wants (even if you disagree) in any way democratic? So far only a few mps have been honest enough to vote in line with their constituents or in line with their own beliefs.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"
Oliver Cromwell was the leader of a bloody revolution and some see him as a dictator. Not that I think that's what you want, but I think it needs to be said.
I actually feel sorry for Theresa May. She has taken upon herself a responsiblilty no-one wants. Her job is nearly impossible and no matter what she does a large part of the population will dislike her. She knows it and she took the job anyway.
Depends which history books you read, most of Cromwells history was rewritten by Charles II stooges. He was never a dictator, nor did he abolish Christmas. If you remove the religious aspects which unfortunately dictated so much of history, he achieved a lot, great prosperity for his nation, the world's first professional and trained armed force, hospitals and universities were built for the use of all and he close down parliament by using the army to effect a majority when Parliament continued to use its position for its members own profits and not for the good of the people.
He was by no means faultless, his treatment of the Irish was apalling as was his routing of the Scots. But then they did keep invading Newcastle (Sorry Barbel)
He also gave Charles the first many opportunities to climb down and continue his kingship, but matters were forced when the King of England tried to raise a foreign army to make war on his own people to make his power absolute. The Kings allowance of the churches and prayers becoming more catholic in nature (owing to his Catholic wife) did not help matters. His role of Lord Protector was more or less forced upon him in many respects.
Norway pays the EU in money and accepting many EU laws and regulations for the open border to Sweden. I'm not sure many Brexiters will accept that.
Many brexiteers may have to swallow a bit more than they think. At this stage the choices are becoming less.
Let's just look at Greece, they voted to leave the EU, and 62% of those who voted did vote to leave the EU! Still there aren't they!
The "some" was duly noted -{
The border was never an issue and if we go back to
Bombing and killing each other, that's our problem
No one elses. I honestly can't see it, people are
Sick and tired of all terrorists. In fact I think it was
Shameful of the remainers to try and use it as a
Weapon.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
The border was never an issue and if we go back to
Bombing and killing each other, that's our problem
No one elses. I honestly can't see it, people are
Sick and tired of all terrorists. In fact I think it was
Shameful of the remainers to try and use it as a
Weapon.
FWIW, my more serious view is that the original referendum was a horrible idea, irrespective of outcome. Isn't the whole premise of a representative democracy to elect people specifically to take important policy positions, presumably with the benefit of a lot more information and research than the average citizen can reasonably be expected to have?
Those are good thoughts, but we live in a climate (and you will know that from the US) that in the age of social media, every keyboard warrior feels to be superior to traditional education and expertise.
>>I have just googled it and my Facebook friends say that you are wrong. Period.<<
These elites have partly manoevered themselfs into that position by arrogance and ignorance but I strongly believe, that most of them are good, do good and in an increasing complex world, we desperately need them.
Representative democracy only works when voters resist to having a "master and servant" attitude against politicians - "You have been elected by me to do this and that and if you don't follow that "order" and dare to have a conscience and follow it, you are a whore".
The enemy of representative democracy is populism: We appease and enforce your insecurity and disappointment, are campaining based on the "will of the people" and promise to fight the elites for the good of people.
My country made very bad experiences with that kind of populist approach some decades ago.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
We are of course now inundated with clueless keyboard warriors who are ill read and badly researched, the referendum was ultimately a terrible decision and a roll of the dice by Cameron who believes they were loaded. Having a referendum is not persay a bad idea, but this one should have been held After proper preperations were to deal with any result were made and correct information given by the democratically elected government, who should have remained neither leave nor stay. For my part, I vote for those I deem to best placed and educated to run the country. So yes I want serious people with workable ideas to make the decisions that I can't.
The shame of this current debacle is that its always been and continues to be a party political problem. Caused in part by Mays stupidity at calling a general election and throwing her majority away at a time when the country was badly divided.
Comments
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
simply easier to stay.
+1
I don't mind countries voting to leave the EU. What I do mind is voting to leave based on unrealistic expectations and without having any sort of plan. I have been in favour of a new referendum, but Higgins pointw are valid and frankly I'm not sure Britain can stand another referendum.
The so-called Norway+ is being talked about as a solution. The Norwegian government and business community doesn't want that to happen. Our deal With the EU is a fragile thing and we don't want Britain to start rocking the boat.
I said before that before the last vote on the withdrawal agreement mps should have been ordered back to their surgeries to hold a week long consultation with the people of their constituencies to garner the way they expected their elected representative to vote. This matter shouldn't ever have been a party political issue.... Ever.
Second referendum? No way. We voted once and the result was the result, we also voted to elect politicians to make good on the results. What has ensued is chaos and a stark insight into a broken democratic process.
As Cromwell said "when the members of this house stopped truly and faithfully representing the peoples of this great nation, it's time to know you have no place in this house. Men of no faith who lay with whores, count their gold and good fortune. You do not truly represent the people begone"
The Norway model has been offered to the UK, but has been refused.
Uk did not want to pay and did not want to obey to EU legistlative
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well, nobody in their right mind would dispute, that the Brexit vote was based on blatant lies, misinformation, social media propaganda and russian interfering.
So, repeating on and on, how binding the Brexit vote is, bears some doubts and the outrage I can't really take seriously.
Truth is, that the tories used the Brexit referendum for their perceived own benefit - well that backfired badly for them.
Matter of fact is, that nobody in the UK parliament is willing to execute a hard Brexit - no matter how ill-informed the vote was.
So even members of the tories indirectly know, that most of what has been said during the campaining was unrealistic and would lead to disaster. And they came slowly to their senses and are trapped in their own lies.
I find it ironic, that the conservative party put the execution of the Brexit vote into the hands of someone, who was a remainer all the time. Additionally, the leader of the opposition party is a Brexiteer at heart.
It's really like letting a wild wolf take care of your chicken stable.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Now that the Brexiteers have (mildly put) badly disappointed in delivering what you have been voting for, what is your line of action for the maybe very soon upcoming elections: Are you now voting Labour?
Another question: If we imagine for a second, that a hard Brexit would be done on 29th March, what do you suggest will happen on the irish border?
Just an example: During the BSE crisis in 2015, british meat was not allowed to be sold in the EU.
British farmers used Ireland to traffic their meat into the EU by a large degree. That will certainly not happen again.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Cheap food and cars along with full employment {[]
I for one can't wait next we just need to get rid of
Scotland.
Whisky, they're holding the rest of us back.
On an unrelated matter, how many generations can I
go back to get a German passport ?
Industrial powerhouse, to move to an island which has only one
National resource, The Potato !
Lovely chips
Because like it or loathe it, the British public voted out. Democracy is dead if someone cancelled it.
You have no idea, how stubborn our islander neighbors are.
They‘d rather lose Scotland and Ireland then admitting that the referendum was a mistake.
Do you know the Monty Python scene with the black knight?
Should give you an idea
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Ah, now I get it why Mrs. May‘s deal is voted about next week for the 3rd time, because everybody is respecting a democratic vote
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You know very well how stubborn, magoifan
Oliver Cromwell was the leader of a bloody revolution and some see him as a dictator. Not that I think that's what you want, but I think it needs to be said.
I actually feel sorry for Theresa May. She has taken upon herself a responsiblilty no-one wants. Her job is nearly impossible and no matter what she does a large part of the population will dislike her. She knows it and she took the job anyway.
Good to seeing you knowing about your rights- equally about your duties -to vote ;%
And article 61 magna carta sounds different.
To put it quite simply, there is no Article 61 of Magna Carta and rebellion is unlawful. There is no smoking constitutional gun that means you don’t have to pay taxes or fines or obey the law. There is, in fact, only one way to lawfully rebel and that is to be on the winning side so you’re the one who decides what is and isn’t lawful.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
FWIW, my more serious view is that the original referendum was a horrible idea, irrespective of outcome. Isn't the whole premise of a representative democracy to elect people specifically to take important policy positions, presumably with the benefit of a lot more information and research than the average citizen can reasonably be expected to have?
Henning Wehn on Brexit and why not a best of seven
The Irish border, this is a major issue for both sides, as ireland has been a way for cheaper pork and beef to enter into the UK also, undercutting out own farmers and driving down the value of our own products. Its also not known if these products have traveled illegal distances as livestock or have been slaughtered and prepared according to EU regulations. The answer is simply lies along the same path as the Swiss border and the norwegian/Swedish border. The whole Irish border issue is from the EU perspective a massive misdirection. My own view would be that should we leave the EU with no deal in place the UK does nothing on the Irish border, if the EU wants to protect itself then it can control the border. I would also be asking that the Irish government step up its repayments of the bail out loan the UK gave it to stop it going bankrupt.
My point of view has always been measured by what I read and take due diligence to research, the EU has done and does do a lot of good, but it also has massive failings. I don't think it's good for either party to leave without a deal, it's just a shame everyone has got caught up with the withdrawal agreement when the real negotiations have yet to begin.
Depends which history books you read, most of Cromwells history was rewritten by Charles II stooges. He was never a dictator, nor did he abolish Christmas. If you remove the religious aspects which unfortunately dictated so much of history, he achieved a lot, great prosperity for his nation, the world's first professional and trained armed force, hospitals and universities were built for the use of all and he close down parliament by using the army to effect a majority when Parliament continued to use its position for its members own profits and not for the good of the people.
He was by no means faultless, his treatment of the Irish was apalling as was his routing of the Scots. But then they did keep invading Newcastle (Sorry Barbel)
He also gave Charles the first many opportunities to climb down and continue his kingship, but matters were forced when the King of England tried to raise a foreign army to make war on his own people to make his power absolute. The Kings allowance of the churches and prayers becoming more catholic in nature (owing to his Catholic wife) did not help matters. His role of Lord Protector was more or less forced upon him in many respects.
Norway pays the EU in money and accepting many EU laws and regulations for the open border to Sweden. I'm not sure many Brexiters will accept that.
Norway/Sweden border
Let's just look at Greece, they voted to leave the EU, and 62% of those who voted did vote to leave the EU! Still there aren't they!
The "some" was duly noted -{
As a Brexiteer in NI, what's your view on the border issue?
Bombing and killing each other, that's our problem
No one elses.
Sick and tired of all terrorists. In fact I think it was
Shameful of the remainers to try and use it as a
Weapon.
Those are good thoughts, but we live in a climate (and you will know that from the US) that in the age of social media, every keyboard warrior feels to be superior to traditional education and expertise.
>>I have just googled it and my Facebook friends say that you are wrong. Period.<<
These elites have partly manoevered themselfs into that position by arrogance and ignorance but I strongly believe, that most of them are good, do good and in an increasing complex world, we desperately need them.
Representative democracy only works when voters resist to having a "master and servant" attitude against politicians - "You have been elected by me to do this and that and if you don't follow that "order" and dare to have a conscience and follow it, you are a whore".
The enemy of representative democracy is populism: We appease and enforce your insecurity and disappointment, are campaining based on the "will of the people" and promise to fight the elites for the good of people.
My country made very bad experiences with that kind of populist approach some decades ago.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The shame of this current debacle is that its always been and continues to be a party political problem. Caused in part by Mays stupidity at calling a general election and throwing her majority away at a time when the country was badly divided.