I have certainly noticed the typical condescending, superior tone, his apparent arrogance (intended or not), naivety & propensity for such a one-eyed blinkered approach to this matter.
And I agree with him 100% ) ) )
You can‘t fix stupid!
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Higgins, can I ask you: what do you think are the biggest problems within the EU today? I mean not counting Brexit. What do you think are the causes of these problems? Big questions, I know, but also important.
Higgins, can I ask you: what do you think are the biggest problems within the EU today? I mean not counting Brexit. What do you think are the causes of these problems? Big questions, I know, but also important.
Interesting question, N24.
Imo, the biggest issues have nothing to do directly with the EU but EU citizens unfairly blame the EU for the outfall.
There are many losers of globalisation and I understand the anger that many people feel, because they are on the losing side.
2008, we had an enormous financial crisis and citizens paid heavily for saving credit institutes and even countries and they still pay.
That all fuels the negative mood that you can find in populations across the democratic countries and unfortunately, people tend to vote populist with a tendency to go nationalist as a result.
That was the introduction, why I see the largest threat for the EU in the losers of globalisation and the 2008 financial crisis. And EU citizens will blame the EU for that and vote nationalist and populist, which will lead to more national egoism but no real economic growth in a globalized world.
Just look at the US and see if the steel workers are getting their jobs back, or the coal miners. You can't stop globalism and competition is getting more and more brutal and competition produces people that lose.
Nobody from the poor will win anything by voting nationalist and populist. You can't vote against global competition or globalism.
The only way out of that dilemma will be to include financially and socially these losers from globalism into our society while in the last decades, the richer have gotten richer and the poorer have become poorer.
The biggest problems for the EU to come will be populist nationalists in Italy, perhaps France, Poland Hungary and others who want the money but have no interest in anything else and will make life in the EU very much more difficult then before.
A large part of the EU success was, when countries allied together and put aside their egoisms and helped each other.
If everyone is becoming more and more egoist and nationalist, that will negatively affect the EU for sure.
With the UK leaving the EU, we will have a "Mediterranian" majority where fiscal discipline is not perceived well, they want to borrow more money without really investing it.
Is that enough scaremongering for the moment?
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I owe a great debt of gratitude to the British people. They took me in when I had nowhere else to go. Because of this I will always support them as a nation and make sure I do my best to try to be a good citizen and to contribute to society. If I was to use ‘offended’ as a weapon like others then I would state I am offended, but in actual fact I am angry that someone can generalise in such a crass manner to portray the British people as some thing I know they are not. Don’t please anybody try to preach to me or make false statements about the British people in general in order to put forward what are in effect untruths made just to promote their own agenda. The British people are not stupid enough to become brainwashed by racist politics. Nor did they use Brexit as an excuse for racism. While there is always racism in every nation the British, English Scottish Welsh and Northern Irish people are a people who I am proud to be part of even as an immigrant.
I will say this. Political discussion is never won by people who cannot stand to be contradicted. Discussions cannot be won by trying to shout louder than other people or turn debates into arguments in the hope that other people will be shut out of the debate. Free speech for all but for only for all those who agree?
The result of all this is there is no debate, just a coming together of nodding dogs. It satisfies the ego because it gives the impression that one side has ‘won’ but it is a false victory, and nothing more than a measure of the personal need to dictate.
People reading this debate can see what happens here. They do not need to be told.
) That's why the EU wants to keep the UK, 52% of us are Stupid ! )
we'll accept any old sh*te ) and happily Pay for the privilege )
If you would have read the article with an open mind, you'd have realized, that the author is not saying that the 52% are stupid.
a. He may call the search for a pain-free Brexit stupid
b. another interpretation (and that's how I understand him) may be that he finds the entire idea of leaving the EU stupid.
Your interpretation just is missing the point.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Higgins, can I ask you: what do you think are the biggest problems within the EU today? I mean not counting Brexit. What do you think are the causes of these problems? Big questions, I know, but also important.
Interesting question, N24.
Imo, the biggest issues have nothing to do directly with the EU but EU citizens unfairly blame the EU for the outfall.
There are many losers of globalisation and I understand the anger that many people feel, because they are on the losing side.
2008, we had an enormous financial crisis and citizens paid heavily for saving credit institutes and even countries and they still pay.
That all fuels the negative mood that you can find in populations across the democratic countries and unfortunately, people tend to vote populist with a tendency to go nationalist as a result.
That was the introduction, why I see the largest threat for the EU in the losers of globalisation and the 2008 financial crisis. And EU citizens will blame the EU for that and vote nationalist and populist, which will lead to more national egoism but no real economic growth in a globalized world.
Just look at the US and see if the steel workers are getting their jobs back, or the coal miners. You can't stop globalism and competition is getting more and more brutal and competition produces people that lose.
Nobody from the poor will win anything by voting nationalist and populist. You can't vote against global competition or globalism.
The only way out of that dilemma will be to include financially and socially these losers from globalism into our society while in the last decades, the richer have gotten richer and the poorer have become poorer.
The biggest problems for the EU to come will be populist nationalists in Italy, perhaps France, Poland Hungary and others who want the money but have no interest in anything else and will make life in the EU very much more difficult then before.
A large part of the EU success was, when countries allied together and put aside their egoisms and helped each other.
If everyone is becoming more and more egoist and nationalist, that will negatively affect the EU for sure.
With the UK leaving the EU, we will have a "Mediterranian" majority where fiscal discipline is not perceived well, they want to borrow more money without really investing it.
Is that enough scaremongering for the moment?
I agree with what you write, but are there really no problems where the EU is at fault? Over-bureaucratisation, not taking into account the national characters in member states, letting in very many immigrants in a short time before the economy and popular mood was ready, pushing too fast for EU integration without checking if people wanted it. That sort of thing?
I would say, that the national characters are well respected and considered, so a no with that.
As for letting refugees in a short time, in my opinion it's a national/continental duty.
My opinion about our responsibility, why these people chose to leave their countries is well documented and so, I'll keep it short.
The issue within the EU is, that only some countries are willing to share the burden and others flat out refuse for selfish reasons.
The alternative would be to let them drown in the Med or let them die in the dessert.
The integration of some states was too quick, granted but what where the alternatives? Let them go Putin?
The topic of bureaucracy is a difficult one.
One politician said it correctly: If - as an example - the EU decides to reduce energy consumption, this will lead to a process, where every country will be obliged to reduce by x%, then every city by x% and then every single household by x% and at the end of that process, the rule may be to ban traditional lightbulbs as a contribution to a larger goal.
That may sound bureaucratic but it's necessary because if there are no rules, nobody will follow them.
But in general, bureaucracy is too big and slow and so are decision processes often - one example against that is how fast the EU is able to get decisions done after new developments in London. And that includes 27 countries with different interests. IMO the EU shows how fast and efficient they still can be when it's absolutely necessary.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
The issue is acomplicated and controversial, but we seem to agree it's an issue where there is a lot of debate within and between countries in the EU.
When I spoke of the EU moving too fast when it came to integration I didn't mean invityeing countries into the EU, I should probably have said that more clearly. I was thinking of such areas as the Euro and the EU making rules and systems for the whole of EU on a wide range of areas, many of them not trade-related.
I think one should be very careful to dismiss bureaucracy as a problem in the EU. Do you really think it's efficient to have the EU Parliament moving between Strassbourg and Brussels every month, like a child of divorced parents? That's probably the most obvious example, but don't you think there are more cases of unpractical "solutions"?
It was my opinion 20 years ago (when the new currency was launched) and still is, that we should have never let Greece, Italy and Spain into the Euro.
On the other hand, in my opinion, the UK would have benefitted getting the Euro, but it would be even more difficult to leave the EU while having the Euro currency.
Moving back and forth between Brussels and Strassbourg costs a lot of unnecessary money, but it shows what the EU really is: It's a union based on compromise and not on confrontation. After WW II, the European Council was located in Strassbourg and France heavily lobbied for keeping Strassbourg as a place of European Institutions. So the compromise has been agreed that you still find today. Some may criticise it, but in doubt, the EU covers disagreement with money. Some are blackmailing the EU to get more money, but compromise is better than division - just as we see from the recent examples.
So, if in doubt, I'd rather have a compromise by paying money instead of having a confrontation with a potential deadlock.
It's easy to criticise the waste of money, but sometimes there is a good reason and not pure decadence and stupidity behind some quirky things EU.
The same situation btw occured during the reunification of Germany: Before, Bonn was the capital with mostly all institutions, after everything changed to Berlin, some institutions still remained in Bonn. Costs a lot of money - seems ridiculous but keeps the peace.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I do not know the name for the things on horses eyes to stop them seeing any where in front. But many people seem to wear these things also. To remove them and the blind prejudice of whatever side you fight for and you will see some very serious developments.
Today the British police prepare to go onto the street if violence starts because of Brexit. They warn the MPs and other people not to be too aggressive in the way they speak because there have been threats of violence. There have been some sabotage attempts on railway lines and roads. EVERYONE instead of being responsible is throwing petrol on to the flames and in fact many are enjoying doing so.
I look at this and wonder where it will end. Are people who see that the politicans as betraying them going to riot? Are people who voted to leave going to fight with people who voted to stay with the police and even possibliy the army in the middle? Are people going to be murdered for the beliefs? Cartainly threats of murder and violence are now being made.
I recognise these things of the beginnings of what I left behind. I never thought I would see such things in the UK.
There are of course agitaters on both sides to stir up this and it only makes the situation worse.
Blinkers! Yes. I think that while I made my self clear on the fact that I think every election or referendum result in a free vote should always be respected and never over turned, tt would be indeed good for every one to see other peoples point of view. This will never happen of course. A lot of people need to take off the blinkers.
I also have a language question connected to a political opinion. I think Theresa May has what we call a "Uriaspost". I don't know if the expression in English, but it's from the Bible. King David fell in lust with a woman named Betseba, so he sent her husband Urias to the front lines to get kllled so he could get his wife. An Urias post is a post or situation that very difficult or dangerous, often taking on hardships instead of others.
"The entire Brexit choice was presented to the public in 2016 with utterly misleading simplicity. It was sold with a pack of lies about both the size of the benefits and the ease of implementation, and it continues to be pushed by Conservative hard-liners who used to care about business but are now obsessed with restoring Britain’s “sovereignty” over any economic considerations"
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It was my opinion 20 years ago (when the new currency was launched) and still is, that we should have never let Greece, Italy and Spain into the Euro.
On the other hand, in my opinion, the UK would have benefitted getting the Euro, but it would be even more difficult to leave the EU while having the Euro currency.
Moving back and forth between Brussels and Strassbourg costs a lot of unnecessary money, but it shows what the EU really is: It's a union based on compromise and not on confrontation. After WW II, the European Council was located in Strassbourg and France heavily lobbied for keeping Strassbourg as a place of European Institutions. So the compromise has been agreed that you still find today. Some may criticise it, but in doubt, the EU covers disagreement with money. Some are blackmailing the EU to get more money, but compromise is better than division - just as we see from the recent examples.
So, if in doubt, I'd rather have a compromise by paying money instead of having a confrontation with a potential deadlock.
It's easy to criticise the waste of money, but sometimes there is a good reason and not pure decadence and stupidity behind some quirky things EU.
The same situation btw occured during the reunification of Germany: Before, Bonn was the capital with mostly all institutions, after everything changed to Berlin, some institutions still remained in Bonn. Costs a lot of money - seems ridiculous but keeps the peace.
While we know there are reasons why the EU Parliament travels between Strassbourg and Brussels, I hope we can agree it wasteful and bureaucratic. It can't really be compared to Bonn and Berlin. They don't move the whole circus many times every year, the end of the cold war is a good reason for moving one capital. I think this kind of silly beaurocracy is a major reason why any people are sceptical of the EU, and I think with such a blindingly obvious example we should admit they're right. I agree with what you write about compromise. I think compromising is one of the things the Nordic countries are good at, we recognize that compromise is an important part of politics and life. Having opinions and standing by them is important and in some cases you must stand by them, but usually it's better for everyone to make a compromise. It's sad to witness some politicians over the pond who seem to think any compromise is treason.
Just a response to some of the previous posts, I won't apply quotes.
Joshua, has written very intelligent and literate posts, and I agree with both the sentiment and content. I personally doubt we would see wholesale civil unrest or rioting happening here, the vast majority of UK citizens are law abiding and simply want to get on with their lives. In this union of countries the very few extremists will always attempt to further their ideals during times of crisis, the media seems to relish fueling this sort of behaviour, misinformation, skewed opinions and agenda setting are prevelant with modern media. What we need now is intelligent debate and realistic plans to be put in motion.
The referendum result is what it is. Whether you agree with it or not for the moment the die is cast, and its on that issue we must move forward. So far our luckless politicians have failed to overcome the impasse, there is so much rhetoric and party political games being played as well as power play. I think there will be a big shock all round at the next General elections, many mps have completely abandoned thier constituents and the pledges they were voted in on. Its about those mps were held to account and kicked out of office at the soonest appropriate time. Dishonest politicians is nothing new but this Brexit debacle has shone a spotlight on just how widespread it is.
The EU is not the monster many make out, nor is it the perfect solution to everything, what started out as community of trading partners to create a market cooperative has turned into a political and bureaucratic behemoth that no civilians ever remember voting for. Many people of Spain, Greece and Italy would passionately argue the European experiment has failed for them as unemployment levels rise, some industries are failing and governments run out of money. Infact some countries were allowed to join despite their economies not reaching the eu's own set of rules (which it was happy to overlook when it suited)
The absolute fact is that no one knows what the fall out of Brexit will be, even the experts can't agree. What is blindingly obvious is that if the UK crashes out businesses in the EU will be hit in some just as hard as UK businesses. Bloody mindedness will serve no one well IMHO.
Over dramatic notions that we are all playing into Putins hands or starting the collapse of the west are ludicrous, globalisation is not going to stop, further markets that have risen out of socialism are doing business and desperate for deals, Italy has just signed a deal with China, against EU wishes, will we now see a border accross the top of Italy to prevent the swathe of Chinese products entering the EU market? (not that the EU has managed to protect European manufacturers being undercut by China so far) Did we see Ireland booted out of the block when their economy dipped below the eu's limits and bailed out with UK money? How about the trade deal with Japan or Canada?
Higgins, I stated earlier my distaste for the undemocratic behaviour of some in our parliamentary system, you called that lame, I don't think its lame to decry such people as Yvette Cooper who was elected in a majoritively leave area on a Labour manifesto that promised to deliver Brexit as undemocratic, I'd call it civilian oversight or even calling out the peddlers of mistruths, she's not the only one, there are many in all parties. Vince Cable of the lib dems slates the original referendum as a mistake, though it was his party who first called for one. The tories should realisticly split into the euro sceptics and the remainers, one of those would hopefully become the more Liberal Conservative branch operating in the central ground. The Labour too are a shattered party, Corbyn and his Marxist thugs should be cleared out to let the politicians like Hilary Benn run the party and offer a decent opposition.
" Let us never forget that government is ourselves and Not an alien power over us.
The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a president,senators, congressmen and
government officials, but the VOTERS of this country "
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I also have a language question connected to a political opinion. I think Theresa May has what we call a "Uriaspost". I don't know if the expression in English, but it's from the Bible. King David fell in lust with a woman named Betseba, so he sent her husband Urias to the front lines to get kllled so he could get his wife. An Urias post is a post or situation that very difficult or dangerous, often taking on hardships instead of others.
No matter which way May was to go it was always going to be next to impossible to deliver Brexit to everyones satisfaction, she could never hope to secure the economy, keep her party in one direction and unite the people, it's the devil's own task. She came back with what we now know is the only deal the EU were prepared to agree on, they gave some ground and the UK had to give some ground too. The mps are stuck with some wanting their cake and others wanting to eat it. Corbyn has persistently whipped his party to vote against anything the government puts forward which to my mind is irresponsible, he once again proves his lust for power overrides the good of the country (that he hates BTW) when the EU stated that this was the only deal he still pushes for a general election thinking he could negotiate a better deal! How can you negotiate a better deal than the only one? Why would the EU give more to a man who hates capitalism, wants to remove the UK from nato and plunge the country into financial ruin while paying for his socialist ideals? They call it Theresa Mays withdrawal agreement, I say its the UK's withdrawal agreement.
Yes I have very much enjoyed reading chriscoops wise words. I have read it three times because my written English is not good. (I look forward to the time when I can read an Ian Fleming book and understand it!) Perhaps when we strip away all the stupidity, the blustering or the attempts to point score, argue for arguing sake or the need to shout people down, perhaps the only question left is one that do people support the right for peoples vote to be honoured or do they not?
Whatever your view on Brexit there will be some repercussion to some degree, but my opinion is that the greatest damage of all will occur if the result of a free and fair vote is not upheld.
This mess is not of the doing of the people but the politicians whether they are leave or remain. The people were asked a question we must all remember that they were promised that what ever they decided would be honoured. Given all the stupidity and party politics the people have a right to be angry. I do not know how this anger will come but I do know it will be no good for nobody.
Perhaps there is only me who knows the real value of a free vote because I have been denied it and punished for fighting for it. To have that right taken away does nothing but create great problems and even more division.
In my opinion, the vote must be honoured, even if the cost is heavy, it is not as heavy as the price for not being true to the vote.
Any good opposition leader would be able to exploit the mess in the Tory party, but Corbyn hasn't been able to do so. Having said that: his plans may very well lead to financial ruin, but I really doubt that's what he wants. Has he said he hates the UK? What do you base that claim on?
Any good opposition leader would be able to exploit the mess in the Tory party, but Corbyn hasn't been able to do so. Having said that: his plans may very well lead to financial ruin, but I really doubt that's what he wants. Has he said he hates the UK? What do you base that claim on?
He despises everything that we do or have stood for, even when Labour were in power he voted against his party on most matters that pointed the direction the country was heading. He despises our armed forces and many of the things they have done, he resents the royal family. Infact he'd rather evicerate the British army than condemn the Ira for blowing up a shopping centre in Manchester. He even struggled to call the recent bomb attack in Manchester as an act of terrorism, instead calling it an act of violence.
What infuriates me is the fact he refused to lay a poppy to honour our war dead, even though he has been allowed his views due to the fact they sacrificed their lives for such liberties.
On the economic front, he would tax the wealthy out of the country, stifle entrepreneurism, nationalise the railway, water, power. The result of that would be global investers running for the hills, and long queues at the job centre trying to claim benefits the country can't afford due to the dwindling tax revenues. Yep proper patriot that fella is.
On this week's Frankie Boyle show, he played a great clip of
Jeremy Corbyn. Asking FOR a referendum to Leave the EU )
What a hypocrite....... any wonder his poster gets used for
Shooting practice.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
He seems to be lacking in patriotism, yes. But again, I very much doubt he sat down one day in his office one day and thought: "I really hate capitalism. I Wonder if I can make a party program that will create financial ruin?" I guess I'm stickler for language here. perhaps anoyingly so, but having a plan that will create Financial ruin is one thing, wanting to create financial ruin is another. I don't think the current Venezuelan government wanted to ruin the country financially, it just happened anyway because of their incompetance and dogmatic politics.
Isn‘t Corbyn pushing into the direction of the custom‘s Union, which is basically EU membership without making the rules?
That‘s how I‘ve understood him.
But I agree, I have not often seen a man who comes over so pathetic, unconvincing and lamoyant in his speeches, apart from the fact that he‘s always going around to what he‘s been asked. I‘s easier to nail Gel-o on a wall than getting a proper statemen from him.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Comments
And I agree with him 100%
You can‘t fix stupid!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
we'll accept any old sh*te
Interesting question, N24.
Imo, the biggest issues have nothing to do directly with the EU but EU citizens unfairly blame the EU for the outfall.
There are many losers of globalisation and I understand the anger that many people feel, because they are on the losing side.
2008, we had an enormous financial crisis and citizens paid heavily for saving credit institutes and even countries and they still pay.
That all fuels the negative mood that you can find in populations across the democratic countries and unfortunately, people tend to vote populist with a tendency to go nationalist as a result.
That was the introduction, why I see the largest threat for the EU in the losers of globalisation and the 2008 financial crisis. And EU citizens will blame the EU for that and vote nationalist and populist, which will lead to more national egoism but no real economic growth in a globalized world.
Just look at the US and see if the steel workers are getting their jobs back, or the coal miners. You can't stop globalism and competition is getting more and more brutal and competition produces people that lose.
Nobody from the poor will win anything by voting nationalist and populist. You can't vote against global competition or globalism.
The only way out of that dilemma will be to include financially and socially these losers from globalism into our society while in the last decades, the richer have gotten richer and the poorer have become poorer.
The biggest problems for the EU to come will be populist nationalists in Italy, perhaps France, Poland Hungary and others who want the money but have no interest in anything else and will make life in the EU very much more difficult then before.
A large part of the EU success was, when countries allied together and put aside their egoisms and helped each other.
If everyone is becoming more and more egoist and nationalist, that will negatively affect the EU for sure.
With the UK leaving the EU, we will have a "Mediterranian" majority where fiscal discipline is not perceived well, they want to borrow more money without really investing it.
Is that enough scaremongering for the moment?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I will say this. Political discussion is never won by people who cannot stand to be contradicted. Discussions cannot be won by trying to shout louder than other people or turn debates into arguments in the hope that other people will be shut out of the debate. Free speech for all but for only for all those who agree?
The result of all this is there is no debate, just a coming together of nodding dogs. It satisfies the ego because it gives the impression that one side has ‘won’ but it is a false victory, and nothing more than a measure of the personal need to dictate.
People reading this debate can see what happens here. They do not need to be told.
If you would have read the article with an open mind, you'd have realized, that the author is not saying that the 52% are stupid.
a. He may call the search for a pain-free Brexit stupid
b. another interpretation (and that's how I understand him) may be that he finds the entire idea of leaving the EU stupid.
Your interpretation just is missing the point.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I would say, that the national characters are well respected and considered, so a no with that.
As for letting refugees in a short time, in my opinion it's a national/continental duty.
My opinion about our responsibility, why these people chose to leave their countries is well documented and so, I'll keep it short.
The issue within the EU is, that only some countries are willing to share the burden and others flat out refuse for selfish reasons.
The alternative would be to let them drown in the Med or let them die in the dessert.
The integration of some states was too quick, granted but what where the alternatives? Let them go Putin?
The topic of bureaucracy is a difficult one.
One politician said it correctly: If - as an example - the EU decides to reduce energy consumption, this will lead to a process, where every country will be obliged to reduce by x%, then every city by x% and then every single household by x% and at the end of that process, the rule may be to ban traditional lightbulbs as a contribution to a larger goal.
That may sound bureaucratic but it's necessary because if there are no rules, nobody will follow them.
But in general, bureaucracy is too big and slow and so are decision processes often - one example against that is how fast the EU is able to get decisions done after new developments in London. And that includes 27 countries with different interests. IMO the EU shows how fast and efficient they still can be when it's absolutely necessary.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
When I spoke of the EU moving too fast when it came to integration I didn't mean invityeing countries into the EU, I should probably have said that more clearly. I was thinking of such areas as the Euro and the EU making rules and systems for the whole of EU on a wide range of areas, many of them not trade-related.
I think one should be very careful to dismiss bureaucracy as a problem in the EU. Do you really think it's efficient to have the EU Parliament moving between Strassbourg and Brussels every month, like a child of divorced parents? That's probably the most obvious example, but don't you think there are more cases of unpractical "solutions"?
On the other hand, in my opinion, the UK would have benefitted getting the Euro, but it would be even more difficult to leave the EU while having the Euro currency.
Moving back and forth between Brussels and Strassbourg costs a lot of unnecessary money, but it shows what the EU really is: It's a union based on compromise and not on confrontation. After WW II, the European Council was located in Strassbourg and France heavily lobbied for keeping Strassbourg as a place of European Institutions. So the compromise has been agreed that you still find today. Some may criticise it, but in doubt, the EU covers disagreement with money. Some are blackmailing the EU to get more money, but compromise is better than division - just as we see from the recent examples.
So, if in doubt, I'd rather have a compromise by paying money instead of having a confrontation with a potential deadlock.
It's easy to criticise the waste of money, but sometimes there is a good reason and not pure decadence and stupidity behind some quirky things EU.
The same situation btw occured during the reunification of Germany: Before, Bonn was the capital with mostly all institutions, after everything changed to Berlin, some institutions still remained in Bonn. Costs a lot of money - seems ridiculous but keeps the peace.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Today the British police prepare to go onto the street if violence starts because of Brexit. They warn the MPs and other people not to be too aggressive in the way they speak because there have been threats of violence. There have been some sabotage attempts on railway lines and roads. EVERYONE instead of being responsible is throwing petrol on to the flames and in fact many are enjoying doing so.
I look at this and wonder where it will end. Are people who see that the politicans as betraying them going to riot? Are people who voted to leave going to fight with people who voted to stay with the police and even possibliy the army in the middle? Are people going to be murdered for the beliefs? Cartainly threats of murder and violence are now being made.
I recognise these things of the beginnings of what I left behind. I never thought I would see such things in the UK.
There are of course agitaters on both sides to stir up this and it only makes the situation worse.
Blinkers! Yes. I think that while I made my self clear on the fact that I think every election or referendum result in a free vote should always be respected and never over turned, tt would be indeed good for every one to see other peoples point of view. This will never happen of course. A lot of people need to take off the blinkers.
I also have a language question connected to a political opinion. I think Theresa May has what we call a "Uriaspost". I don't know if the expression in English, but it's from the Bible. King David fell in lust with a woman named Betseba, so he sent her husband Urias to the front lines to get kllled so he could get his wife. An Urias post is a post or situation that very difficult or dangerous, often taking on hardships instead of others.
"The entire Brexit choice was presented to the public in 2016 with utterly misleading simplicity. It was sold with a pack of lies about both the size of the benefits and the ease of implementation, and it continues to be pushed by Conservative hard-liners who used to care about business but are now obsessed with restoring Britain’s “sovereignty” over any economic considerations"
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
“Fanatics don't wanna see anything from another standpoint.”
It‘s a bit like the story with the ghostdriver.....
„One? I see hundreds...“
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
While we know there are reasons why the EU Parliament travels between Strassbourg and Brussels, I hope we can agree it wasteful and bureaucratic. It can't really be compared to Bonn and Berlin. They don't move the whole circus many times every year, the end of the cold war is a good reason for moving one capital. I think this kind of silly beaurocracy is a major reason why any people are sceptical of the EU, and I think with such a blindingly obvious example we should admit they're right. I agree with what you write about compromise. I think compromising is one of the things the Nordic countries are good at, we recognize that compromise is an important part of politics and life. Having opinions and standing by them is important and in some cases you must stand by them, but usually it's better for everyone to make a compromise. It's sad to witness some politicians over the pond who seem to think any compromise is treason.
Joshua, has written very intelligent and literate posts, and I agree with both the sentiment and content. I personally doubt we would see wholesale civil unrest or rioting happening here, the vast majority of UK citizens are law abiding and simply want to get on with their lives. In this union of countries the very few extremists will always attempt to further their ideals during times of crisis, the media seems to relish fueling this sort of behaviour, misinformation, skewed opinions and agenda setting are prevelant with modern media. What we need now is intelligent debate and realistic plans to be put in motion.
The referendum result is what it is. Whether you agree with it or not for the moment the die is cast, and its on that issue we must move forward. So far our luckless politicians have failed to overcome the impasse, there is so much rhetoric and party political games being played as well as power play. I think there will be a big shock all round at the next General elections, many mps have completely abandoned thier constituents and the pledges they were voted in on. Its about those mps were held to account and kicked out of office at the soonest appropriate time. Dishonest politicians is nothing new but this Brexit debacle has shone a spotlight on just how widespread it is.
The EU is not the monster many make out, nor is it the perfect solution to everything, what started out as community of trading partners to create a market cooperative has turned into a political and bureaucratic behemoth that no civilians ever remember voting for. Many people of Spain, Greece and Italy would passionately argue the European experiment has failed for them as unemployment levels rise, some industries are failing and governments run out of money. Infact some countries were allowed to join despite their economies not reaching the eu's own set of rules (which it was happy to overlook when it suited)
The absolute fact is that no one knows what the fall out of Brexit will be, even the experts can't agree. What is blindingly obvious is that if the UK crashes out businesses in the EU will be hit in some just as hard as UK businesses. Bloody mindedness will serve no one well IMHO.
Over dramatic notions that we are all playing into Putins hands or starting the collapse of the west are ludicrous, globalisation is not going to stop, further markets that have risen out of socialism are doing business and desperate for deals, Italy has just signed a deal with China, against EU wishes, will we now see a border accross the top of Italy to prevent the swathe of Chinese products entering the EU market? (not that the EU has managed to protect European manufacturers being undercut by China so far) Did we see Ireland booted out of the block when their economy dipped below the eu's limits and bailed out with UK money? How about the trade deal with Japan or Canada?
Higgins, I stated earlier my distaste for the undemocratic behaviour of some in our parliamentary system, you called that lame, I don't think its lame to decry such people as Yvette Cooper who was elected in a majoritively leave area on a Labour manifesto that promised to deliver Brexit as undemocratic, I'd call it civilian oversight or even calling out the peddlers of mistruths, she's not the only one, there are many in all parties. Vince Cable of the lib dems slates the original referendum as a mistake, though it was his party who first called for one. The tories should realisticly split into the euro sceptics and the remainers, one of those would hopefully become the more Liberal Conservative branch operating in the central ground. The Labour too are a shattered party, Corbyn and his Marxist thugs should be cleared out to let the politicians like Hilary Benn run the party and offer a decent opposition.
" Let us never forget that government is ourselves and Not an alien power over us.
The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a president,senators, congressmen and
government officials, but the VOTERS of this country "
I don‘t agree with everything that you‘ve said but I have immensely enjoyed that one {[]
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No matter which way May was to go it was always going to be next to impossible to deliver Brexit to everyones satisfaction, she could never hope to secure the economy, keep her party in one direction and unite the people, it's the devil's own task. She came back with what we now know is the only deal the EU were prepared to agree on, they gave some ground and the UK had to give some ground too. The mps are stuck with some wanting their cake and others wanting to eat it. Corbyn has persistently whipped his party to vote against anything the government puts forward which to my mind is irresponsible, he once again proves his lust for power overrides the good of the country (that he hates BTW) when the EU stated that this was the only deal he still pushes for a general election thinking he could negotiate a better deal! How can you negotiate a better deal than the only one? Why would the EU give more to a man who hates capitalism, wants to remove the UK from nato and plunge the country into financial ruin while paying for his socialist ideals? They call it Theresa Mays withdrawal agreement, I say its the UK's withdrawal agreement.
Whatever your view on Brexit there will be some repercussion to some degree, but my opinion is that the greatest damage of all will occur if the result of a free and fair vote is not upheld.
This mess is not of the doing of the people but the politicians whether they are leave or remain. The people were asked a question we must all remember that they were promised that what ever they decided would be honoured. Given all the stupidity and party politics the people have a right to be angry. I do not know how this anger will come but I do know it will be no good for nobody.
Perhaps there is only me who knows the real value of a free vote because I have been denied it and punished for fighting for it. To have that right taken away does nothing but create great problems and even more division.
In my opinion, the vote must be honoured, even if the cost is heavy, it is not as heavy as the price for not being true to the vote.
What infuriates me is the fact he refused to lay a poppy to honour our war dead, even though he has been allowed his views due to the fact they sacrificed their lives for such liberties.
On the economic front, he would tax the wealthy out of the country, stifle entrepreneurism, nationalise the railway, water, power. The result of that would be global investers running for the hills, and long queues at the job centre trying to claim benefits the country can't afford due to the dwindling tax revenues. Yep proper patriot that fella is.
Jeremy Corbyn. Asking FOR a referendum to Leave the EU
What a hypocrite....... any wonder his poster gets used for
Shooting practice.
That‘s how I‘ve understood him.
But I agree, I have not often seen a man who comes over so pathetic, unconvincing and lamoyant in his speeches, apart from the fact that he‘s always going around to what he‘s been asked. I‘s easier to nail Gel-o on a wall than getting a proper statemen from him.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!