With regard to the free and democratic vote, you are arguing against accusations that have not been raised. In effect you are arguing with yourself.
I ask everyone to read my posts on the last couple of pages and point out to me if I have made such remarks. If this is the case I will apologise (I have no fear of apologising when I am wrong).
So, according to Barbel, UK politicians lied about the future integration of the EU in 1975
And quite obviously the Brexiteers lied in many details in regards of Brexit 350/week mill NHS
I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated.
Sounds like double standard to me and I really don‘t understand it.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think you do understand what you are saying very well indeed.
I refer you back to your own words:
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
You will please point out to me and every one else where I said that the decision to join the EU must not be followed because politicians lied to their voters. By saying this you are making accusations that I am only for democracy when it suits me. These putting of words into my mouth does nobody any favours. Now you accuse me of double standards because you are repeating things that I have not said.
I look forward to you showing me where I said these things? Please quote me, don't make it up as you go along.
Please, everyone, note that I not edited any of my posts.
Thank you.
BTW just in case any one thinks other wise I am not getting angry or even sightly agitated. I would just like ii to be pointed out where I have said the things I have been accused of saying.
One thing which is good from all of this is my written English has improved! I hope this is noticable. I have been practicing by other means but I thibk I might soon be ready to start reading my first Ian Fleming James Bond novel. I have them all waiting. I did try to read Casino Royale some time ago but had to give up because I could not undertand it.
They did not however vote to join the EU in 1975. They voted to join what they were told was a trading block (Lies by politicians were happening then!)
They voted to join the EEC - plain and simple with all signed contracts for an integrated EU.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
They voted to join the EEC - plain and simple with all signed contracts for an integrated EU.
Yes. The quote is correct. However it is not what I asked for. I sense a grasping at straws.....
Seeing as you chose this quote, you will please now do me the courtesy of explaining to me and everyone else how you made the leap from
" They did not however vote to join the EU in 1975. They voted to join what they were told was a trading block (Lies by politicians were happening then!)"
to
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
If you wish make allegations against anyone then I advise you always to be able to substantiate them. It is not good enough to quote things what you yourself have written ("But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?") and attempting to pass it off as something said by me. This tactic may work in a bar where conversations are not recorded but is unwise in a place where comments are there for all to see (unedited comments in my case).
I forgot to mention, but will not go back to edit my comment when you find my statement about not respecting the 1975 referendum, you will please post it here. As I have already said, if I am proved to have said this I will gladly apologise. I have no hang ups about being wrong or being seen to be wrong.
I quote you:
"I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated."
I look forward to your pointing out where I said that. It is your interest to do so. Please give a direct quote.
One thing which is good from all of this is my written English has improved! I hope this is noticable. I have been practicing by other means but I thibk I might soon be ready to start reading my first Ian Fleming James Bond novel. I have them all waiting. I did try to read Casino Royale some time ago but had to give up because I could not undertand it.
But not my spelling! In my defence I usually write replies on the notepad programme and it helps me greatly to compose better posts. This time I just wrote in a hurry! ;%
The referendum to join the EEC: You nor I wasn't there, but by his own admission Barbel was. He already answered the question but if he would be so kind, I would like him to expand on his answer.
No, sorry, I already have enough to do reading all these wordy posts and PMs.
The Norwegian Minister of Education warns against studying in the UK because of the risk of the UK leaving the EU without a deal.
Are there other examples of government officails warning against Britain like this?
I don't usually post on political threads however I did once when someone made me aware of something called The Lisbon Treaty. Higgins debunked the points raised, called my post/comments crap (which were a third parties observations) & sh*t which I thought was pretty strong. The conversation continued by private emails where heated debate took place. What I should point out is I and Higgy are personally aquatinted and have been for a number of years. To anyone reading the discussion thread I'm sure Higgins came across as an ass which as a Donkey is my department!
Higgins cares passionately about the EU and does 99% of the time know what he's talking about although I'm sure a certain Mr Deaton may say otherwise!
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,866MI6 Agent
^ Mr Dalton as well as Mr Deaton, I should dare say.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I don't usually post on political threads however I did once when someone made me aware of something called The Lisbon Treaty. Higgins debunked the points raised, called my post/comments crap (which were a third parties observations) & sh*t which I thought was pretty strong. The conversation continued by private emails where heated debate took place. What I should point out is I and Higgy are personally aquatinted and have been for a number of years. To anyone reading the discussion thread I'm sure Higgins came across as an ass which as a Donkey is my department!
Higgins cares passionately about the EU and does 99% of the time know what he's talking about although I'm sure a certain Mr Deaton may say otherwise!
Your point being?
Please answer this. Does the fact that he ‘cares passionately about the EU’ give him licence to put words into other peoples mouths then attempt to pretend that they said what they didn’t? Seeing as you are his personal friend and wish to step in on his behalf perhaps you might like to take over and point out where in my posts I said what he says I said? I will be most grateful if you can do this because I have read my posts several times and have clearly missed the parts of my posts which Higgins has picked up on and ‘replicated’.
I would advise that being passionate about something, anything, is never an excuse for bad behaviour. It is neither an excuse to defend such behaviour. Many of us are passionate about things, yet we refrain from acting outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour in order to point score in a debate.
And although I remain even tempered about this I repeat my point about standing by with an apology if I am proved to be wrong and have said the things which have been claimed. I do not of course expect an apology if I am not wrong. That would be obviously too much to ask.
I don’t want PMs. I just want the record to be set straight. Again I know this is too much to ask so I do not expect it.
Please, anyone, tell me where I have said the things which have been alleged! I am standing by with my apology!
I must admit that my belief in my statement is being tested.
I refer you to posts 976 onwards (Just out of interest I got post 1007!)
Perhaps you will tell me where I said the things that Higgins alleges? Every one else seems very reluctant to point out where I have made these statements? Although I have tried I cannot find them! I have not edited my posts so it can not be said that I did this to cover my tracks.
So far it appears to me a case of quick to allege, slow to confirm. It may be an acceptable way to conduct oneself to some here, but not to me. Many people here wear this behaviour because they have to, I am not them!
Do you think it is acceptable to place words in someones mouth then pedal them as if the person said them when those sentiments are offensive to the person in question?
In my opinion it is not acceptable but also foolish when everything which has been said is recorded!
Am I missing something? Is it just a jolly joke? I can begin to 'joke' like that if that is the case.
I wish that the authorities in my country knew about my beliefs in 'selective democracy' it may have saved me from prison. They foolishly imprisoned me because they thought I believed in the right to free and fair votes and standing by the results of free and fair votes regardless of personal preference. Had they known what I actually only believe in results that I agree with then I might not have gone to prison and I might even have been able to stay in my homeland! Oh I wish my friend Higgins would have been there to tell the regime the truth!
I repeat hat I am standing by to apologise when it is discovered that I stated what I high light in bold as said by Higgins (quote):
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter whatand regardless how politicians lied on their voters and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the EEC must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
and
"I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated."
I look forward to being proved to not really believe in democracy, condemed by the statements I have made here!
I have asked Higgins a couple of times to show me where I have written what he states but he has gone quiet all of a sudden? I'm only asking for confirmation of the statements I made so I can be made aware of my mistakes and apologise!
Joshua, Higgins is at present on the other side of the world in a different time zone. It is also possible there is poor coverage where he is. In addition, he is on holiday and may simply be doing other things. Please stop repeating your message.
And no, I'm not getting involved in who said what. In fact, I'm considering advising the use of PMs as the thread has become sidetracked. I'll wait a few hours before taking any further action, though, to see if there are any developments.
I would like a simple answer to a simple question. Accuse away but please verify or admit the mistake. Things which have been said about me on the open forum in front of every one need to be resolved in the same manner.
I am aware Higgins is on holiday but you have missed the fact that he has been quick to respond to all other posts except my requests for an answer to this. He even came on to thank his friend!
That said, simply because I have respect for you as a person I will wait until he returns for an explanation. If he posts before but does not respond to my request then I have the answer which I now suspect to be the case.
I didn't miss that. I don't know exactly what Higgins' plans and arrangements are, and neither do you. A simple "thank you" takes only a few seconds, and a long reasoned post takes some time which someone may not have while travelling. Cut the guy some slack here and stop demanding a response.
I would like a simple answer to a simple question. Accuse away but please verify or admit the mistake. Things which have been said about me on the open forum in front of every one need to be resolved in the same manner.
I am aware Higgins is on holiday but you have missed the fact that he has been quick to respond to all other posts except my requests for an answer to this. He even came on to thank his friend!
That said, simply because I have respect for you as a person I will wait until he returns for an explanation. If he posts before but does not respond to my request then I have the answer which I now suspect to be the case.
I was actually going to post an addition to this (not an edit!) because I realised it was unreasonable to expect Higgins to make short few word posts to other topics and think he was ignoring my concerns. But I see that another post has been made in the time I was away from the computer.
What I should have said was if Higgins comes here and spends time replying to other people while ignoring my concerns then I will have my answer.........
Meanwhile in Brexit news the Brexit party is being launched today. According to what I hear some well known Conservatives are preparing to join. I don't know if this is just newspaper spin but we will see over the coming days.
The 'biggest' name is Ann Widdecombe. I am not familiar with her but according to what I hear she would be a big prize for the Brexit party.
I have replied twice or more already to Joshua‘s messages with quotes.
My point is, that he says that in the 1975 referendum, UK people did not vote for the EU while he slams on anyone who say that people have not voted for a hard Brexit in 2016.
It doesn‘t make sense to me, but I‘ll not go further into this because it‘s off topic and Joshua obviously does not get the point. We are just turning circles...
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It will be interesting to read what went on in government
During the Brexit negotiations in 30 years time. Not all
AJBers will be around but it's a drop in the ocean for
Youngsters like me
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
I ask everyone to read my posts on the last couple of pages and point out to me if I have made such remarks. If this is the case I will apologise (I have no fear of apologising when I am wrong).
And quite obviously the Brexiteers lied in many details in regards of Brexit 350/week mill NHS
I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated.
Sounds like double standard to me and I really don‘t understand it.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I refer you back to your own words:
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
You will please point out to me and every one else where I said that the decision to join the EU must not be followed because politicians lied to their voters. By saying this you are making accusations that I am only for democracy when it suits me. These putting of words into my mouth does nobody any favours. Now you accuse me of double standards because you are repeating things that I have not said.
I look forward to you showing me where I said these things? Please quote me, don't make it up as you go along.
Please, everyone, note that I not edited any of my posts.
Thank you.
BTW just in case any one thinks other wise I am not getting angry or even sightly agitated. I would just like ii to be pointed out where I have said the things I have been accused of saying.
They voted to join the EEC - plain and simple with all signed contracts for an integrated EU.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Yes. The quote is correct. However it is not what I asked for. I sense a grasping at straws.....
Seeing as you chose this quote, you will please now do me the courtesy of explaining to me and everyone else how you made the leap from
" They did not however vote to join the EU in 1975. They voted to join what they were told was a trading block (Lies by politicians were happening then!)"
to
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
If you wish make allegations against anyone then I advise you always to be able to substantiate them. It is not good enough to quote things what you yourself have written ("But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter what and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the european trade Union must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?") and attempting to pass it off as something said by me. This tactic may work in a bar where conversations are not recorded but is unwise in a place where comments are there for all to see (unedited comments in my case).
Thank you and I await your reply.
I quote you:
"I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated."
I look forward to your pointing out where I said that. It is your interest to do so. Please give a direct quote.
Thank you.
But not my spelling! In my defence I usually write replies on the notepad programme and it helps me greatly to compose better posts. This time I just wrote in a hurry! ;%
No, sorry, I already have enough to do reading all these wordy posts and PMs.
Are there other examples of government officails warning against Britain like this?
Higgins cares passionately about the EU and does 99% of the time know what he's talking about although I'm sure a certain Mr Deaton may say otherwise!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Your point being?
Please answer this. Does the fact that he ‘cares passionately about the EU’ give him licence to put words into other peoples mouths then attempt to pretend that they said what they didn’t? Seeing as you are his personal friend and wish to step in on his behalf perhaps you might like to take over and point out where in my posts I said what he says I said? I will be most grateful if you can do this because I have read my posts several times and have clearly missed the parts of my posts which Higgins has picked up on and ‘replicated’.
I would advise that being passionate about something, anything, is never an excuse for bad behaviour. It is neither an excuse to defend such behaviour. Many of us are passionate about things, yet we refrain from acting outside the boundaries of acceptable behaviour in order to point score in a debate.
And although I remain even tempered about this I repeat my point about standing by with an apology if I am proved to be wrong and have said the things which have been claimed. I do not of course expect an apology if I am not wrong. That would be obviously too much to ask.
I don’t want PMs. I just want the record to be set straight. Again I know this is too much to ask so I do not expect it.
Please, anyone, tell me where I have said the things which have been alleged! I am standing by with my apology!
I must admit that my belief in my statement is being tested.
I refer you to posts 976 onwards (Just out of interest I got post 1007!)
Perhaps you will tell me where I said the things that Higgins alleges? Every one else seems very reluctant to point out where I have made these statements? Although I have tried I cannot find them! I have not edited my posts so it can not be said that I did this to cover my tracks.
So far it appears to me a case of quick to allege, slow to confirm. It may be an acceptable way to conduct oneself to some here, but not to me. Many people here wear this behaviour because they have to, I am not them!
Do you think it is acceptable to place words in someones mouth then pedal them as if the person said them when those sentiments are offensive to the person in question?
In my opinion it is not acceptable but also foolish when everything which has been said is recorded!
Am I missing something? Is it just a jolly joke? I can begin to 'joke' like that if that is the case.
I wish that the authorities in my country knew about my beliefs in 'selective democracy' it may have saved me from prison. They foolishly imprisoned me because they thought I believed in the right to free and fair votes and standing by the results of free and fair votes regardless of personal preference. Had they known what I actually only believe in results that I agree with then I might not have gone to prison and I might even have been able to stay in my homeland! Oh I wish my friend Higgins would have been there to tell the regime the truth!
I repeat hat I am standing by to apologise when it is discovered that I stated what I high light in bold as said by Higgins (quote):
"But you repeat again and again, that a democratic Brexit vote must be followed no matter whatand regardless how politicians lied on their voters and now you say, that the free and democratic vote for joining the EEC must not be followed because politicians lied on their voters?"
and
"I don‘t understand, why you say that the 1975 votes don‘t count because politicians lied and the 2016 votes all count while Brexiteers lied and cheated."
I look forward to being proved to not really believe in democracy, condemed by the statements I have made here!
And no, I'm not getting involved in who said what. In fact, I'm considering advising the use of PMs as the thread has become sidetracked. I'll wait a few hours before taking any further action, though, to see if there are any developments.
I am aware Higgins is on holiday but you have missed the fact that he has been quick to respond to all other posts except my requests for an answer to this. He even came on to thank his friend!
That said, simply because I have respect for you as a person I will wait until he returns for an explanation. If he posts before but does not respond to my request then I have the answer which I now suspect to be the case.
I was actually going to post an addition to this (not an edit!) because I realised it was unreasonable to expect Higgins to make short few word posts to other topics and think he was ignoring my concerns. But I see that another post has been made in the time I was away from the computer.
What I should have said was if Higgins comes here and spends time replying to other people while ignoring my concerns then I will have my answer.........
The 'biggest' name is Ann Widdecombe. I am not familiar with her but according to what I hear she would be a big prize for the Brexit party.
After the passage of so many years, it's difficult to say if they directly lied or merely omitted to mention all the details.
I have replied twice or more already to Joshua‘s messages with quotes.
My point is, that he says that in the 1975 referendum, UK people did not vote for the EU while he slams on anyone who say that people have not voted for a hard Brexit in 2016.
It doesn‘t make sense to me, but I‘ll not go further into this because it‘s off topic and Joshua obviously does not get the point. We are just turning circles...
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
During the Brexit negotiations in 30 years time. Not all
AJBers will be around but it's a drop in the ocean for
Youngsters like me